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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » this is how to improve the combat:

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89 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/15/12 1:20:06 PM#61
It needs however.
Better animations, especially for jump and turning with pistols.
Better sounds on pistols and assault rifle
Age of conan style fatalities
Slightly faster movement
Better help on explaining how to build an effective deck - double finishers, event chains, auto builders etc..
  User Deleted
5/15/12 1:21:03 PM#62
Originally posted by Charlizzard

Does every weapon involve building "charges" to use for harder attacks, AOE and/or finisher attacks? And is this true of even higher tier attacks? If so, this should absolutely change, but I doubt it will.

in a way but dont look at it as charges.  Look at it like this.  Most ranged weapons may allow you to build charges but only a few do more damage with more charges.  So in other words you can build to 1 or 2 charges and do a finisher and hit just as hard as someone with 5.

 

Also Melee starts with 5 charges so its more "bursty" orientated which is nice.

 

Magic is more traditional and requires more charges then the other but the beauty of this system is that all your other skills i.e. melee and ranged skills not only build those charges but also magic charges, so its fun to do things like hammer swing till 2 charges and do a melee finisher, hammer swing till 3 charges (note will have 5 magic charges at this point) do another melee finisher followed by an immediate Thor's Hammer Magic finisher, which was the hardest hitting ability you could get in this weekends beta event.  It was very fun.

  User Deleted
5/15/12 1:24:39 PM#63
Originally posted by ShakyMo
It needs however.
Better animations, especially for jump and turning with pistols.
Better sounds on pistols and assault rifle
Age of conan style fatalities
Slightly faster movement
Better help on explaining how to build an effective deck - double finishers, event chains, auto builders etc..

I agree on the AC fatalities but it wont chage my mind if it did or did not have them.  I didnt have problems with any animations.  The movement was fine if you remember to hit your sprint key after every combat.

 

As for help explaining or building better decks, then this game is not designed to coddle you, feed you a bottle and burp you before putting you down for a nap, in other words its not designed to babysit you.  If you need that then look elsewhere.  Or at the very least look at the pre-constructed decks and go from there.  But for me I love the deck system as its very remeniscent of a cross between an Asherons Call and a Magic the Gathering and its the best character system I have ever seen.!!!!!!!!!

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1605

5/15/12 1:46:55 PM#64
Originally posted by Yalexy

The only thing that needs to be worked on is the animations, so that they look really cool. Everything else is just fine.

Oh.. and you can actually dodge attacks in the current system. You only need to do a step to the left or the right, when you see the white cone on the ground.

Seriously. I don't want something ala TERA or GW2 as a combat-system. If I'm interested in action combat, then I go play something like Unreal or SoulCalibur. In TSW I'm looking forward to a slower paced and more ressource-based combat system, which is just fine.

You dodge AOE's but targeted attacks will home in on your no matter what you do.  You can even move behind a tree and the ability to home around/though the tree to hit you.

How is TSW resource based combat?  You build 5 points which you can spend in two pools.  I guess thats a form of resource based combat but it's not a very highly evolved one.  I could program macros on my mouse to build/spend the resources just as easily as I could do it myself and be fine 90%+ of the time.

Combat is unimaginative and bland.  The potintial is there for requiring some thought as to what 7 active and passive skills you pick before a fight but once you hit that first attack key things go downhill fast.  And really in the end how much will you spend setting up for a fight compared to how much time will you spend acually fighting?  is it even 1% setup to 99% fighting?

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4013

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

5/15/12 1:48:26 PM#65

In other words, make it DCUO...

Not that I'm disagreeing...

  Nemesis7884

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  5/15/12 2:48:40 PM#66

the game doesnt necessarily need to have action combat - gw2 doesnt really have true action combat either - but it "pretends" to have action combat by having great animations that give you the feel of dynamic, action, impact etc...i stated this in my original post - the combat in tsw is sluggish, slow and  boring - maybe in the end game that is much much better (there is a combat video on gamespot that shows high level combat and it looks as rubbish as low level combat if not even more due to really bad skill animations -backflipp-) but why would i want to invest hours into a combat i dont enjoy just to maybe get to a point i do?

and regarding what was said about animations being difficult to produce  - rubbish! thats a typical funcome response for we couldnt pull it off - look at all the other games that have as many skill options and do a much better job at it (tera nd gw2 to just name too, there is a list on the official forums, i think especially tera has 2-3x as many skill combinations)

and i would laugh at any dev that tells me what i see in the beta - 1 month before release and were talking about funcom - is way worse and gets improved massivily up release - its simply rubbish

besides this is the post stating that animations wont change that much till launch: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/404/view/forums/thread/351030/What-you-see-now-is-what-you-get-as-far-as-animations-go.html

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1605

5/15/12 3:06:14 PM#67
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

the game doesnt necessarily need to have action combat - gw2 doesnt really have true action combat either - but it "pretends" to have action combat by having great animations that give you the feel of dynamic, action, impact etc...i stated this in my original post - the combat in tsw is sluggish, slow and  boring - maybe in the end game that is much much better (there is a combat video on gamespot that shows high level combat and it looks as rubbish as low level combat if not even more due to really bad skill animations -backflipp-) but why would i want to invest hours into a combat i dont enjoy just to maybe get to a point i do?

and regarding what was said about animations being difficult to produce  - rubbish! thats a typical funcome response for we couldnt pull it off - look at all the other games that have as many skill options and do a much better job at it (tera nd gw2 to just name too, there is a list on the official forums, i think especially tera has 2-3x as many skill combinations)

and i would laugh at any dev that tells me what i see in the beta - 1 month before release and were talking about funcom - is way worse and gets improved massivily up release - its simply rubbish

besides this is the post stating that animations wont change that much till launch: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/404/view/forums/thread/351030/What-you-see-now-is-what-you-get-as-far-as-animations-go.html

 

I believe what the devs have said is that the animations and character creation options will be improved but they have not said when. Of course they won't be able to improve them by launch much if at all so we are stuck with a vague someday it will get better promise. IMO that's BS, if they are unhappy to the point of saying improvements are needed than delay the launch. Launching a half assed attempt at a good game and expecting people to buy/sub to it is just lame. You only get to launch a game once and no matter how much you fix it afterwards you never get a second chance.
  cukimunga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/05
Posts: 2275

Ah I'm drunk and I'm in the street like a vagabond.

5/15/12 8:05:05 PM#68
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

Well if you remember Funcom tried different combat with AoC, I think they went back to their roots and made an upgrade of AO combat which I enjoyed.   So what the combat isn't cutting edge, that is NOT what needs to change in the MMO genre.. SETTING is one of the things that needs to change in MMO's as well with more non themepartk games..  While this isn't my ideal MMORPG, I really enjoy the setting enough to deal with the themepark gameplay. 

  Nemesis7884

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  5/16/12 12:08:28 AM#69
Originally posted by cukimunga
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

Well if you remember Funcom tried different combat with AoC, I think they went back to their roots and made an upgrade of AO combat which I enjoyed.   So what the combat isn't cutting edge, that is NOT what needs to change in the MMO genre.. SETTING is one of the things that needs to change in MMO's as well with more non themepartk games..  While this isn't my ideal MMORPG, I really enjoy the setting enough to deal with the themepark gameplay. 

i disagree

setting, story and atmosphere (and graphics) is what gets you interested in a game

but combat and questing mechanics (especially for groupes) is what keeps you playing... if they dont change things and bring up interresting pvp modes, im afraid people will just play the game once and thats it - thats also what a lot of the closed beta testers said, that they dont see anyone playing the game anymore once the story is done

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3272

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

5/16/12 2:58:27 AM#70


2) no i mean dodge as in dodge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G6bZdFYHqg - that video is also a good example of how combat should "feel" in terms of impact

Its not designed to be a FPS. At some point you have to deal with that fact

4) lol...yea maybe they should stopp making games if they are not willing to make games people like to look at...why not stick to rock-paper-scissors for future funcome games?
Its a niche game made for a select crowd. if they wanted to do a lowest common denominator game, then we would expect a very diffrent and dumbed down product

That said, There is a point where you have to say, Hey this game is comprised of these "Core components" our target market will be drawn to these components. adding additional "stuff" wont yeild more players if they dont like the core components.


5) the sounds are not only horrible (i mean effects from attacks/weapons not music) - everybody that has ever fired a gun in his life will tell you the same

Its fake. its an exchange of numbers, sound effects help enforce a sense of realism but if you wanted exact realism go fire a gun in real life.

6) have to do that

mokay

7) ....yea the its only the beta argument...if i only got 10 bucks for every time i heard that..i probably bought funcom by now


No...weather the locked skills are good or not is irrelevant, However it will add more complexity the more skills are available.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  gestalt11

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6165

5/16/12 3:04:38 AM#71
Originally posted by Lagoz

The combat is fine as it is.

Speeding it up would make it impossible to follow the perfect rotation.

We have other games like Tera and GW2 with action-oriented combat.

If a game has perfect rotations then its combat is not fine.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3272

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

5/16/12 3:19:43 AM#72


funny people keep bringing up its BETA. Game is set to release in a month. TERAs animations and combat did not change from CB1

Maybe because it was already released in Asia for 12 months?

Now just for humor, what were the comments a month prior to releasing in asia?


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Soandsoso

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 446

5/16/12 9:33:20 AM#73
Originally posted by Nemesis7884

1) speed it up 25%

2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

This game isn't for you.

  TurkeyBurger

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/10
Posts: 52

5/16/12 4:09:34 PM#74

So I am playing the beta. The first weapon you get is the shotgun. The first attack you get is to fire the shotgun.

No tab targeting, no target needed to fire. You pull the trigger and you blast the shotgun. FREE AIM! Action combat Anytime you want to fire the shotgun you fire it. At whatever enemy you want. Aim with skill and action combat. 

I was like OH SHIT this game is going to be amazing! Then once I started to use other abilities I saw it for what it was. You had to tab target enemies and use abilities in a tab target ALA Wow wait for cooldowns manner. No free action based skill combat.

The pistols? Absolutly NO as in ZERO free aim like the shotgun has. You do not just aim and shoot the guns. You HAVE to have an enemy tab targeted. The rifle? Same thing complete 180 from the first attack with the shotgun. It is like they tease you with one single free aim action skill based ability with one gun, and the rest is all tab target combat.

They might as well take it out because it was such a tease and a gigantic let down.

  User Deleted
5/16/12 7:42:33 PM#75
Originally posted by TurkeyBurger

So I am playing the beta. The first weapon you get is the shotgun. The first attack you get is to fire the shotgun.

No tab targeting, no target needed to fire. You pull the trigger and you blast the shotgun. FREE AIM! Action combat Anytime you want to fire the shotgun you fire it. At whatever enemy you want. Aim with skill and action combat. 

I was like OH SHIT this game is going to be amazing! Then once I started to use other abilities I saw it for what it was. You had to tab target enemies and use abilities in a tab target ALA Wow wait for cooldowns manner. No free action based skill combat.

The pistols? Absolutly NO as in ZERO free aim like the shotgun has. You do not just aim and shoot the guns. You HAVE to have an enemy tab targeted. The rifle? Same thing complete 180 from the first attack with the shotgun. It is like they tease you with one single free aim action skill based ability with one gun, and the rest is all tab target combat.

They might as well take it out because it was such a tease and a gigantic let down.

Wow didnt invent tab tagerting.

Just wanted to make you aware.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

5/16/12 9:18:59 PM#76
Originally posted by TurkeyBurger

So I am playing the beta. The first weapon you get is the shotgun. The first attack you get is to fire the shotgun.

No tab targeting, no target needed to fire. You pull the trigger and you blast the shotgun. FREE AIM! Action combat Anytime you want to fire the shotgun you fire it. At whatever enemy you want. Aim with skill and action combat. 

I was like OH SHIT this game is going to be amazing! Then once I started to use other abilities I saw it for what it was. You had to tab target enemies and use abilities in a tab target ALA Wow wait for cooldowns manner. No free action based skill combat.

The pistols? Absolutly NO as in ZERO free aim like the shotgun has. You do not just aim and shoot the guns. You HAVE to have an enemy tab targeted. The rifle? Same thing complete 180 from the first attack with the shotgun. It is like they tease you with one single free aim action skill based ability with one gun, and the rest is all tab target combat.

They might as well take it out because it was such a tease and a gigantic let down.

 

I noticed that too.  Made me wonder why they don't just make half the weapons free-aim and half of them tab targetting.  Players could just pick what they prefer, and both sides would be happy.  I mean, its obvious that the mechanics are there, so should be easy to take advantage of.. but for whatever crazy reason, no, they just tease the player at the beginning, before pushing them into the worst tab target combat I've seen in a long time.  They could at least just make it optional.  That'd probably go a really long way towards improving average impressions.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Smitt3k

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/11
Posts: 21

5/16/12 10:05:16 PM#77

I really like TSW's setting and atmosphere. I do feel that the combat is meh, but not because of the style of combat. While I do find it fun and refreshing I don't think that every mmo needs to have actiony combat like DCUO or Tera. I can and do enjoy games with the old-school tab-targeting skill rotation style too.

 

My issue with the combat in TSW is because of the animations. I have a hard time really enjoying what I am seeing on screen because most of the animations are very lackluster and don't do the game or system proper justice. If they were able to "fix" this I believe that it would feel a lot better and flow more smoothly. To me it feels and looks too mechanical and it can be distracting to my immersion.

 

I hope that it is something that they can work out and improve, even if it means we lose the ability to cast alot of skills while moving. I would gladly trade that ability for a slight pause in movement if it means I would have animations that match better.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7197

5/16/12 11:38:30 PM#78
Originally posted by Smitt3k

 

My issue with the combat in TSW is because of the animations. I have a hard time really enjoying what I am seeing on screen because most of the animations are very lackluster and don't do the game or system proper justice. If they were able to "fix" this I believe that it would feel a lot better and flow more smoothly. To me it feels and looks too mechanical and it can be distracting to my immersion.

 

Here my thing on the animations. No matter what they make there will be people who don't like it. Animations is higly subjective. There are 500 abilitites that interact with one another on several different levels that alter those abilities. 

 

There literally would have to be 1000's of animations in order to give each it own. I can let them slide on that. They way the move with guns is very realistic. There is no shooting over the shoulder stuff while you straff. You like like you are carring an AK-47 and moving around you target with the gun pointing at him. 

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3272

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

5/17/12 1:06:12 AM#79


Originally posted by evilastro


Originally posted by Lagoz

 The combat was supposed to be an upgrade from the traditional mmorpg combat and it certainly does that.  TSW has the best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpg's. Also the combat system feels dull at first but when you start realising the potential in terms of double finishers, debuffs chains, etc.. it gets a lot more interesting. It's not a flashy combat system it's a deep combat system.
It's easy to rant about the combat when you play a limited beta with only the basic skills, fighting the weakest monsters in the game in a welcoming new player friendly zone. People went berserk about Tera having awful combat as it is before you hit higher levels. The same goes with TSW.
If you don't enjoy the combat in TSW, move along. They are not going to change it in a month and for me that's a good thing.
And for nice to know: I didn't enjoy GW2 combat that much. The dodge mechanic is gimmicky and the combat itself is a freaking chaotic spamfest Oo
 



Best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpgs? Don't make me laugh, its more like the bottom 10. Its terrible and the vast majority agree, which is why you see so many threads like this and Funcom has said they are already working on it.

Vast Vocal majority.
Give me your top 10.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  thamighty213

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 1648

5/18/12 4:31:33 AM#80
Originally posted by Lagoz
 

The main reason people are dissing the combat is because it's not GW2 or Tera.

 

No they are dissing it because its absolutely garbage with animations that are by far the worst the industry has ever seen,  YES worse than vanguards which I didnt think was possible.

Because of these utterly crap animations the whole combat a VERY LARGE part of the game feels terrible.

 

Shame that nobody raised this issue abotu animations,  OH WAIT WE DID as far back as 24 months ago.

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