Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by Galaxyz

asura mesmers will be fun

Asura necro with 4 minions will be more fun to tab target.

haha and some minions will be bigger than their master

Hehe some people did the same thing with Lurikeen in DAoC.  I'm not really sure how much of a difference it made though.  Like the OP says, they still have the same hitbox.

The only possible advantage you gain from small stature is that a player may not "notice" you before he would notice a big Charr.  But then again...I think you have a huge name over your head pointing you out so it's not like you're hidden :).

I always liked the idea of race mattering. Thought it was great in Shadowbane that larger races had more hp, same with Eq1..

But in the age of "fairness", why not just make the nameplate scale ? So for smaller races like the Asura, they have a larger nameplate to make up for a lack of physical size. And larger races have smalelr nameplates ?

Originally posted by Creslin321

Hehe some people did the same thing with Lurikeen in DAoC.  I'm not really sure how much of a difference it made though.  Like the OP says, they still have the same hitbox.

The only possible advantage you gain from small stature is that a player may not "notice" you before he would notice a big Charr.  But then again...I think you have a huge name over your head pointing you out so it's not like you're hidden :).

Yep.. or the gnome for WoW. This is brought up EVERY time there is a "small" race in an mmo and I have yet to notice a difference.  I also heard there are chairs that give better postier that gives you .01 second better reaction time. 

I would guess for the hard core of the hard core this would make a difference, for 99.99% of us, not a big deal.

So, using the same logic, serious PvPers will only dress in earth tones. 

Don't underestimate the hatred that players have for small characters.  Sometimes they will go to great lengths to have a gnome dead versus a charr just because of this perceived insult.  I remember a friend that told me whenever he saw a short race in any game with PvP, he would head straight for that target first.  He would go out of the way to find ways to kill them.  

So you'll have players on both sides of the spectrum, those that will ignore the small guys and those that will hunt for them.  

If you cannot hit them because they are small then send pet to aggro them or just do aoe.

There might be a disadvantage for being short too. When I once played a gnome in WoW I had line of sight issues in some areas when trying to look over objects. Take cliffs for example. When your character is firing projectiles from a cliff it helps to be tall, because your character can be in line of sight of more stuff below a cliff than a character closer to the ground.

Originally posted by ihatepugs

Don't underestimate the hatred that players have for small characters.  Sometimes they will go to great lengths to have a gnome dead versus a charr just because of this perceived insult.  I remember a friend that told me whenever he saw a short race in any game with PvP, he would head straight for that target first.  He would go out of the way to find ways to kill them.  

So you'll have players on both sides of the spectrum, those that will ignore the small guys and those that will hunt for them.  

Lol I actually told my guildmates that when ever I saw Asura on the battlefield I would be going after them.  Tactics be damned!

IMHO,

this racial skill (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Golem_Battlesuit) will make a big diference at PvP batlle, because it is better than Hazmat Suit (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hazmat_Suit), that everyone can bought with karma.

And I foresee the day when PvP battles will use a lot of Hazmat Suits and Golems Battlesuits...

Bring the tanks, baby!

Originally posted by oxbaker

Originally posted by Master10K

I think giving larger characters more HP is a stupid idea. Then people would just role Charr & Norn and QQ that the Asura are too squishy, that they are always the targets for focus fire (ctrl+T). Quite frankly I don't see the Asura having that big of an advantage in a tab-target game and only those who suffer from some serious tunnel vision won't be able to spot an Asura with a bigass name-plate. Even in the old poor quality PAX & Gamescom vids, I never had much trouble spotting an Asura. Would be much easier in-game. Or maybe my eyesight is just that amazing.

I think you missed where I said "not a lot more". They shouldn't be given enough extra so that one race is "squishy" compared to another but just enough to nulify the size advantage. And you may not view that small difference in size as much of an advantage but if you play compeditively then you'll take any advatage you can get, no matter how small.

And when I played, the Charr and Norn most certainly stuck out from the Asura. Even if you can see the name tag as clearly as the next races, there are a certain percentage of players (who knows how many) that focus on the character and not the name tag. And those players are more likely to target the player that is more noticable if all other aspects are equal.

It's those small advantages that compeditive players look for and why they'll chose Asura every time.

     Our team has yet to worry about any kind of character race differences at all. Mainly because if you are a truly competitive player seeing and targeting an asura is probably the simplest task in the game. Never once In a game have I targeted anything just because it was bigger. Unless the asura were so small that they literally got lost in the shuffle and were hard to target there's no problem with their size.

     The game is extremely complex. Much more complex then one would originally percieve. Its only when you start diving into the mechanics competitively do you see all of the layers of the game.

     A smaller character model is not even worthy of being considered an advantage in competitive play. Most of us will click nameplates as those ensure a successful target of the desired character. Clicking character bodies for a target is always a mess in any game. I couldn't even really see this being an advantage at all in casual PvP. It isn't any more difficult to click an asura than a norn in the least. 

     Trust me when I say you don't have to worry about asura size, no other race should be given any kind of health benefit. THAT, on the other hand, would be a tangible benefit no matter how small the health buff. No competitive player would ever pick asura or human or silvari. The size difference isn't worth even one point of extra health. It literally causes no extra difficulty in targeting at all.

     That being said, good post. I disagree but I like the discussion. Targeting would only be a problem if the game was not target based and it was actually, noticeably, more difficult to hit the asura. As it stands I've not noticed a single extra second targeting a smaller race. The second I want to target I click or tab. Done.

Originally posted by oxbaker

I mean, why would they not? If you can't use racial abilities in standard (non-WvW) PvP matches then the only advantage one race gives over another is thier size. All races may have the same hitbox but a physically smaller character will be slightly harder to spot depending on terrain.

Only reason I bring it up is that I worry serious PvP and Esport matches will consist of two teams of Asura which, to me anyway, doesn't seem as visually appealing to watch or play in.

I know it's late in the development to do so but it would be nice if they would make it so the larger your race, the more hit points you have. Not a lot more but just enough to make up for sticking out like a sore thumb in PvP.

What think you?

You are clearly not thinking outside of the box. 

1) Norn Mesmer = Bigger illusions which can get in the way of ranged classes... especially spamming multiple on them. 

2) Defense characters will want to go big as they have a greater chance of attracting people who click target.

3) most weapon affects are AOE arcs and PvPers have already or soon will learn not to tab target... Hit boxes being equal means Asura will get hit just as often as everyone else in that arc. 

4) Pets can and will still go after Asura using terrain to hide. 

While size might give a small advantage in certain situations... It will not be large enought to warrent all hardcore PvPers to roll Asura. Size can work both ways depending on what roll a player wants to have in PvP. 

Originally posted by kichise

Asura is almost same size as humans in-game. A little shorter but quite wider.

 

With that being said, anyone who still doesn't choose Asura is just crazy. They should remove all other races. (They're so cool! I wouldn't mind a world of pure Asura)

One can only dream....

Ratero.

Originally posted by kichise

Asura is almost same size as humans in-game. A little shorter but quite wider.

 

With that being said, anyone who still doesn't choose Asura is just crazy. They should remove all other races. (They're so cool! I wouldn't mind a world of pure Asura)

Call me crazy then, they're the only race I won't be playing.

Originally posted by Quenchster

There might be a disadvantage for being short too. When I once played a gnome in WoW I had line of sight issues in some areas when trying to look over objects. Take cliffs for example. When your character is firing projectiles from a cliff it helps to be tall, because your character can be in line of sight of more stuff below a cliff than a character closer to the ground.

This is the main argument that could sway me from my decision but I just don't know if it's really valid because of the fact that the camera is 3rd person. So the real question is, is the camera actually lowered for a shorter race? If it is then I definitly think it would offset any "shortness" advantage. I'm gonna have to test it out tomorrow. Heck, if I can look at a more downward angle over obsticals due to hight, maybe I'll change my tune tomorrow and say all serious PvPers will choose Norn ;)

Originally posted by johaocarl

IMHO,

this racial skill (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Golem_Battlesuit) will make a big diference at PvP batlle, because it is better than Hazmat Suit (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hazmat_Suit), that everyone can bought with karma.

And I foresee the day when PvP battles will use a lot of Hazmat Suits and Golems Battlesuits...

Bring the tanks, baby!

Those suits don't make you a tank to my knowledge(assuming the battlesuit works similar to the hazmat). The hazmat only gives you 2k extra HP and YOU take all damage unlike the siege golems which use a different far larger health bar. What it boils down to is that golem suits will be about as popular as summoned weapons(lightning hammer/bow). They are neat and can certainly be useful, but they aren't going to come anywhere near replacing your main skillset. All of your traits are geared towards your skills so summoned weapons/suits have a very negative side.

Originally posted by oxbaker

Originally posted by Quenchster

There might be a disadvantage for being short too. When I once played a gnome in WoW I had line of sight issues in some areas when trying to look over objects. Take cliffs for example. When your character is firing projectiles from a cliff it helps to be tall, because your character can be in line of sight of more stuff below a cliff than a character closer to the ground.

This is the main argument that could sway me from my decision but I just don't know if it's really valid because of the fact that the camera is 3rd person. So the real question is, is the camera actually lowered for a shorter race? If it is then I definitly think it would offset any "shortness" advantage. I'm gonna have to test it out tomorrow. Heck, if I can look at a more downward angle over obsticals due to hight, maybe I'll change my tune tomorrow and say all serious PvPers will choose Norn ;)

 Name one PvP mmorpg where people picked a specific race for a height advantage.

Daoc is easily the BEST example of height actually being useful and it STILL didn't impact competent pvpers.

Originally posted by Master10K

I think giving larger characters more HP is a stupid idea. Then people would just role Charr & Norn and QQ that the Asura are too squishy, that they are always the targets for focus fire (ctrl+T). Quite frankly I don't see the Asura having that big of an advantage in a tab-target game and only those who suffer from some serious tunnel vision won't be able to spot an Asura with a bigass name-plate. Even in the old poor quality PAX & Gamescom vids, I never had much trouble spotting an Asura. Would be much easier in-game. Or maybe my eyesight is just that amazing.

It really is a balance issue. A few more HP could work, say 1-2% or so for large characters and -1-2% for asura.

Larger differences than that would mess things up more instead of helping with the balance.

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Originally posted by oxbaker

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Originally posted by Quenchster

There might be a disadvantage for being short too. When I once played a gnome in WoW I had line of sight issues in some areas when trying to look over objects. Take cliffs for example. When your character is firing projectiles from a cliff it helps to be tall, because your character can be in line of sight of more stuff below a cliff than a character closer to the ground.

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This is the main argument that could sway me from my decision but I just don't know if it's really valid because of the fact that the camera is 3rd person. So the real question is, is the camera actually lowered for a shorter race? If it is then I definitly think it would offset any "shortness" advantage. I'm gonna have to test it out tomorrow. Heck, if I can look at a more downward angle over obsticals due to hight, maybe I'll change my tune tomorrow and say all serious PvPers will choose Norn ;)

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I think the camera is actually lowered. In beta it felt at the "right" position regardless of race, and some people commented that when traveling to the human area as a norn, everything felt really small. Playing as a norn, humans seem tiny. Playing as a human, norn seem huge. I think that's because of the camera position.

It's also important to remember that you don't always want to avoid being targeted.

What about players who build tanky (pretty much any Guardian build) or Bruiser (Tanky DPS)?

In that case you'll want to take the larger races (Norn and Charr).  PvP builds aren't all about sheer DPS you know.