Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

Tell that to all the Social, RP, Crafter, City and Community builder type players

 

I agree Pyr, there is a huge audience for content like this.

Folks like Thor just don't get it. Lots of 'I don't like it so it's a waste of time' in what he says, sadly.

ironically his reason why not is actually better than the reason Zenimax gave

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

Some people actually like it alot and it isn't that expensive to add so i fail to see why they shouldn't include it.

A friend of my played a house broker for 3 months in "Daggerfall" because he liked how the economical sytem worked. What is boring to you might be fun to others and housing does not make things less fun for you.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

Tell that to all the Social, RP, Crafter, City and Community builder type players

 

I agree Pyr, there is a huge audience for content like this.

Folks like Thor just don't get it. Lots of 'I don't like it so it's a waste of time' in what he says, sadly.

ironically his reason why not is actually better than the reason Zenimax gave

lol I guess, but their statement was really piss poor so I don't think that's saying too much ;)

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

I think it's best not to state an opinion as if it were a matter of fact.

Whilst you might not gain any enjoyment from player housing, many other players may gain significant utility from its inclusion.

The best thing about player housing is that it doesn't affect the enjoyment of the game for people who aren't interested in it.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

 

 

Player housing and PvP content are not mutually exclusive features, and neither are social aspects and PvP content.

You can have non-instanced player housing and open world FFA PvP, and social gaming and excellent PvP all in one game.

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

 

 

Player housing and PvP content are not mutually exclusive features, and neither are social aspects and PvP content.

You can have non-instanced player housing and open world FFA PvP, and social gaming and excellent PvP all in one game.

Except for the RED, I agree.

LAZYNESS

No other explanation.

Three reasons I think this game will fail hardcore.

1. Hero Engine

2. No player Housing, which is a TES staple.

3. Class based Character System.  Ooooh YAY ME, I get to play a Mage, Priest, Rogue, or Warrior in a TES universe.  BORING.....TES was always about Skill Based classless systems like playing my 1H Axe, Fire/Illusion Dark Elf in Skyrim.  Now what class based character fits that model?  Anser: NONE, I am forced to play some generic fantasy class instead of becoming my own custom creation.  HORRIBLE!

Originally posted by Suraknar

Housing that is limited, that is expensive and that is not accessible equally to all styles of play, simply does not work and has been a mistake in games that offered it as the OP suggests.

The point is that an MMO is not RL, at least, part of the appeal of an MMO is the possibility to do something that one simply does not have the opportunity to do in RL - Becoming a powerfull mage laying Waste with Powerfull spells, or a Knight in a Shiny armor Saving the unfortunate Travellers from a Fierce Dragon -, if you shove RL limitations and realities down to the player's throats in what is supposed to be a "game" or if not, a "Fantasy World where anything is possible for everyone", players will reject that game, and they have in the past.

So, many devellopers, just choose to not include Housing instead of trying to find solutions that will provide equal opportunity to all. If it is not there, there is nothing to worry about is the logic. Not to mention the effort and ressources that would have been needed in order to include Housing.

But here we come to the conundrum. Many players, do want this feature, whie we may not all agree on certain aspects of it, like in this discussion I do not agree with the OP, we all do want the feature nevertheless, like both the OP and I would like to see Housing in this game.

I think, one of the solutions is actually to use, thematic related Instances for Housing. And I am not talking about an Instanced Room here. I am talking about an Instanced Area where players can build their Housing on, and that this area is made of the same theme as the Open area it relates to.

For example, you could explore the world and decide to build your house in a Swamp Open Area, then your Instanced Housing area will be accessed via a Travel NPC within the Open Swamp Area, and once there your instance has the same features as the Open Swamp area, in other words it is also a Swamp and you explore it and build your House in to it from the ressources existing within it, you can make it open so that other players can visit it and you could even be crafting and selling your wares or host any kind of Social activity you like..etc.

This way, you solve many of the issues raised, Housing will not cluter the world, there will be enough for everyone, and it is accessible to everyone.

Expanding on this you could make it so that several Players could combine their Instances, by polling ressources and upgrading to a combined area which could be bigger depending on the number of people combining their instances, a small guild could build a village, a larger one a Castle or a City etc etc..

Exploring the Game's Lands could also be about exploring the Player made Communities and Establishements, meeting new people who may have created their own background storis and are ready to share their own experiences and adventures or personalities allong with a nice Pint of Ale.

I would take it a step further, I would let the players manage, the "security" features of their own housing Instances, permiting PvP (with appropriate setup to eliminate grief, abuse and ambush play of cource) or Not permiting it for example.

Let the players be in a position to Customize their experience as the players see fit and have fun with.

But most devellopers seem to addopt a "God Mode" when they move from designing an MMO rather than a Single player game, all of the sudden the player is not treated as the Adventurer of the world, but rather the spectator of their Themepark.

Ultimatelly, solutions exist, suffice it the Designers/Devs actually wish to solve the problems they may perceive.

For now, I am inclined to agree with Istavaan..they got the feedback from many Skyrim players, they know many want an MMO like it, and they are going for the money grab, as quickly as possible with as little investement as possible as to maximize profit while taking advantage of the current Hype...all fine and nice Business plans, but nothing "Fun Game" oriented about them.

Your wrong.  Asherons Call in its prime has real estate system such as Mansions, Villas, House, and Apartment.  It worked and worked well.  One of the best systems in the world and yet not everyone was able to either afford a house and its maintenance cost or was able to be quick enough to find one.  It was a whole new meta game going around looking for new houses that came on the market and it expanded the economy greatly.

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

 

 

Player housing and PvP content are not mutually exclusive features, and neither are social aspects and PvP content.

You can have non-instanced player housing and open world FFA PvP, and social gaming and excellent PvP all in one game.

didn't say there were...

I said the focus was wrong (which it is IMO) and that in a development with finite resource some things obviously stay and some go.

I think it was a mistake, considering the IP, to make this a PvP game and put the focus there, thats all :)

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Suraknar

Housing that is limited, that is expensive and that is not accessible equally to all styles of play, simply does not work and has been a mistake in games that offered it as the OP suggests.

The point is that an MMO is not RL, at least, part of the appeal of an MMO is the possibility to do something that one simply does not have the opportunity to do in RL - Becoming a powerfull mage laying Waste with Powerfull spells, or a Knight in a Shiny armor Saving the unfortunate Travellers from a Fierce Dragon -, if you shove RL limitations and realities down to the player's throats in what is supposed to be a "game" or if not, a "Fantasy World where anything is possible for everyone", players will reject that game, and they have in the past.

So, many devellopers, just choose to not include Housing instead of trying to find solutions that will provide equal opportunity to all. If it is not there, there is nothing to worry about is the logic. Not to mention the effort and ressources that would have been needed in order to include Housing.

But here we come to the conundrum. Many players, do want this feature, whie we may not all agree on certain aspects of it, like in this discussion I do not agree with the OP, we all do want the feature nevertheless, like both the OP and I would like to see Housing in this game.

I think, one of the solutions is actually to use, thematic related Instances for Housing. And I am not talking about an Instanced Room here. I am talking about an Instanced Area where players can build their Housing on, and that this area is made of the same theme as the Open area it relates to.

For example, you could explore the world and decide to build your house in a Swamp Open Area, then your Instanced Housing area will be accessed via a Travel NPC within the Open Swamp Area, and once there your instance has the same features as the Open Swamp area, in other words it is also a Swamp and you explore it and build your House in to it from the ressources existing within it, you can make it open so that other players can visit it and you could even be crafting and selling your wares or host any kind of Social activity you like..etc.

This way, you solve many of the issues raised, Housing will not cluter the world, there will be enough for everyone, and it is accessible to everyone.

Expanding on this you could make it so that several Players could combine their Instances, by polling ressources and upgrading to a combined area which could be bigger depending on the number of people combining their instances, a small guild could build a village, a larger one a Castle or a City etc etc..

Exploring the Game's Lands could also be about exploring the Player made Communities and Establishements, meeting new people who may have created their own background storis and are ready to share their own experiences and adventures or personalities allong with a nice Pint of Ale.

I would take it a step further, I would let the players manage, the "security" features of their own housing Instances, permiting PvP (with appropriate setup to eliminate grief, abuse and ambush play of cource) or Not permiting it for example.

Let the players be in a position to Customize their experience as the players see fit and have fun with.

But most devellopers seem to addopt a "God Mode" when they move from designing an MMO rather than a Single player game, all of the sudden the player is not treated as the Adventurer of the world, but rather the spectator of their Themepark.

Ultimatelly, solutions exist, suffice it the Designers/Devs actually wish to solve the problems they may perceive.

For now, I am inclined to agree with Istavaan..they got the feedback from many Skyrim players, they know many want an MMO like it, and they are going for the money grab, as quickly as possible with as little investement as possible as to maximize profit while taking advantage of the current Hype...all fine and nice Business plans, but nothing "Fun Game" oriented about them.

Your wrong.  Asherons Call in its prime has real estate system such as Mansions, Villas, House, and Apartment.  It worked and worked well.  One of the best systems in the world and yet not everyone was able to either afford a house and its maintenance cost or was able to be quick enough to find one.  It was a whole new meta game going around looking for new houses that came on the market and it expanded the economy greatly.

 Finally someone mentions AC. And I agree 100%. Youre gonna tell me that a what 12 year old game can have what I consider about flawless player housing and TESO cant? Hell DaoC had player housing that was just fine itself and that game is also 10+ years old.

Im not a player housing nut or anything but this is Elder Scrolls were talking about and this to me sounds lazy. Im so tired of bad MMO releases and mediocre games alltogether that im just gonna avoid this one.

Shame too as I love ES series.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

 

 

Player housing and PvP content are not mutually exclusive features, and neither are social aspects and PvP content.

You can have non-instanced player housing and open world FFA PvP, and social gaming and excellent PvP all in one game.

 

didn't say there were...

I said the focus was wrong (which it is IMO) and that in a development with finite resource some things obviously stay and some go.

I think it was a mistake, considering the IP, to make this a PvP game and put the focus there, thats all :)

guys just for clarification Darkfall has all of this and they have a very small budget. Yes the game is not hugely popular but that is nearly completely because the number of people who THINK they like FFA PvP and actually do are very different.

Originally posted by odinsrath

in most cases companys dont roll out "everything under the sun" to start off a new title..they like to see if their shit flys 1st..then roll out bells / whistles like player housing if it does ..if not..the title gets pushed aside like 70% of the market today and wait for the next steaming pile to see it that flys

And if you don't have all the bells and whistles then your game will flop as countless MMOs have experianced.  The launch is the most crucial stage in any MMO.  WoW was an exception and a fluke if it's launch was rocky as hell, don't know as I wasn't around at the time.  If you want your MMO to fail then by all means half ass you features and become just like SWTOR.

Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".

The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.

That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.

That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.

Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).

Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.

PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".

The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.

That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.

That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.

Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).

 

Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.

 

 

PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.

 

green: ya i agree saying it cant be done is silly to even say..they / any1 can just plop it in

red: dont know how long you claim to had been playing these games but eq / daoc was plopd in after a point in time..neither had it on release

Originally posted by odinsrath

Originally posted by Burntvet

Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".

The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.

That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.

That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.

Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).

 

Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.

 

 

PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.

 

green: ya i agree saying it cant be done is silly to even say..they / any1 can just plop it in

red: dont know how long you claim to had been playing these games but eq / daoc was plopd in after a point in time..neither had it on release

Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....

Originally posted by Istavaan

Because zenimax want maximum profit with  low risk. it's basically a cash grab. they want box sales, so don't buy it.

Pretty much what ALL the developers are doliong,that is why i am at least waiting to see how Archeage evolves.AA wil lhave cheapish housing to start but hey it's better than nothing,iot shows the develoepr is at least putting some effort into the game.GW2 doesn't have it,they even skipped out on mounts and several other ideas like guild halls.

Most of us have seen the trends and right now i feel the current trend is too put out generic games and use PVP as their selling point or still trying to pan off "end game" as a worthy replacement for the real game.

Of course i do not knwo for sure but i have quite often been right on my predictions and i feel Zenimax is just using the successful franchise name to make easy sales on what i expect wil lbe a ho hum release.

Most of the develoeprs will NOLT gotoo far in the hole ,most are expecting to break even or make profits in the first year.I might sound biased but FFXI is the ONLY game i know have that had a planned 5 years just top break even,and the game depth showed.

I have not seen ANY ,not one single game put any effort into any part of their games,every single aspect has been done to the minumum,this is sad game designing.Blizzard seems to get away with mediocre releases but i bet thier time of fanbois following will soon come to an end.

As i already mentioned Archeage is the ONLY game i have seen since FFXi that might actually put everytrhing into the game on release and with more depth than the last 5 years has shown us.

I was a big fan of Elder scrolls years ago,but i feel they have been left behind and i do not expect much from that franchise anymore.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....

 

DAoC didnt have housing till about a year and a half after release. EQ doesnt have housing. EQ2 does

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Burntvet

Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....

 

DAoC didnt have housing till about a year and a half after release. EQ doesnt have housing. EQ2 does

EQ does have housing, pretty extensive housing tbh. Came in with the House of Thule expac.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:Player_Housing_in_EverQuest 

OP has it a bit too complicated.  If you can't do player cities and housing (honestly I think you could, given all the villages you encounter in TES games), do instanced housing.

Originally posted by creedgaming

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

Really a dumb thing to say... What do you when you've leveled up all the classes , you're burned out in PVP , you start to collect stuff in-game customize your house increase your property...   MMORPG's are starting to die and if they don't start incorporating Player housing and old Ultima Online ,SWG , concepts there days will be limited , Warhammer Online 1.5 million subs @ launch , deader then kelseys nuts .... SWTOR the next WoW killer , don't think anyone thinks that today... Ultima online 16 years later still chugging away with enough subscribers for EA to turn a profit , pay employees , and develope expansions.... What does that say about player housing? It says if you want to stand apart and be sucessful you better incorporate it , or your another WoW clone that the market will chew up and spit out....

It isn't a dumb thing to say.  It does nothing for HIS gaming experience in an MMO, and HIS experience is the standard by which everyone else should be measured.  It's really compelling logic when you think about it.