Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by xposeidon

Um... how about immersive, interesting, detailed, complex, variety, choice, innovative, explorable, but above all... fun? I guess players are not expecting this anymore?

Tera is a ton of fun, and the combat in innovative.  The rest of it is just marketing jumbo that never holds up to scrutiny.  TSW is many of those things, but it's a mediocre game all the same.  Not that it won't be fun for a spell, but it doesn't have the foundation to stand upon to make people keep coming back.  Foundation is whats important, not all the shit you pile on top of it.

guess you never tried DCUO...kinda has the same combat and all

Anyways, Tera is just doomed to go F2P soon i mean it failed in 2 country's (japan and korea) and with all the censor going on its just....ya just no

At the end of this year SW will go free to play.

GW2 will be a huge sucess.

TERA and TSW, I don't know. I give both games a 50/50 chance. However, TERA still lacks some promised content (battlegrounds, political system, etc). And TSW is still more kind of a "secret" than it should be, since we still do not know much about it (endgame, PvP, etc.).

Originally posted by lordathon

- Excelent graphics

- Major excelence for the game engine

- great speed conection servers

- large community...

- no bugs (ok, those stupid walls...)

I have a even better game,if you include

-Sandbox contents

-You make your own gameplay

-No classes

-Single server

-Huge map  (i mean rly huge)

You have archeage...

Originally posted by sonoggi

OP is a big fat troll. everyone knows GW2 is the future.

A guy who gives reasons for his argument is a troll while someone who writes 2 simple sentences stating an opinion as absolute fact isn't? Okay troll.

Originally posted by darkbamy

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by xposeidon

Um... how about immersive, interesting, detailed, complex, variety, choice, innovative, explorable, but above all... fun? I guess players are not expecting this anymore?

Tera is a ton of fun, and the combat in innovative.  The rest of it is just marketing jumbo that never holds up to scrutiny.  TSW is many of those things, but it's a mediocre game all the same.  Not that it won't be fun for a spell, but it doesn't have the foundation to stand upon to make people keep coming back.  Foundation is whats important, not all the shit you pile on top of it.

guess you never tried DCUO...kinda has the same combat and all

 

Anyways, Tera is just doomed to go F2P soon i mean it failed in 2 country's (japan and korea) and with all the censor going on its just....ya just no

Except it didn't. It's the third most played MMO in Korea, and that's because it doesn't have enough grind to it. For reference, Aion is the most played game, and we all know how grindy it is.

Originally posted by silvermember

Originally posted by darkwonderer

Originally posted by silvermember

Originally posted by darkwonderer

The real game of the future does not use fake sandbox elements to disguise a themepark. Which is what all these newly released games are trying to do. Some do it better than others, which can be argued ad nauseaum. Yet, they are all simply trying to be clever and fool you, or hide the themepark just a little better. Which is fine, but the truth is a real sandbox, developed by a real company, is the true future of this industry. We don't need fake elements to make the world seem a little more real, the quests feel a little more alive. We need a living, breathing world. This can happen in a sandbox. The company that probably succeeds in revolutionizing this genre is CCP.

The truth is players have matured as an audience. The things that worked before are tired. I am tired of waiting for a real game. Bash on.

I hate to tell you, but sandbox are not the future. It probably themeparks, a lot of people love linear stories, too much freedom for the majority is bad. You can say the masses are made up  of dumb people that require a helping hand and as long as that is the case themeparks are not going anywhere.

The problem with sandbox is that, it requires far too many resources that companies are not willing to put into a game. A bad sandbox game is worst than a bad themepark game. 

Also there is also the little problem sandbox players have, so called sandbox players are the hippies in gaming. They love standing on soap boxes preaching how awesome sandbox games are, but the truth is once a sandbox comes out they find some silly reason to hate it. I think in some ways, sandbox loves idealize sandbox concepts to the point where a real sandbox game WILL NEVER EVER meet those ellusive standards.

I am no hippie. Nor will I stand on a soapbox. The only real sandbox released, by a real company, is EVE. Which is adored by its fans. Unfortunately I don't do ships.

I respect your point of view, but would counter that even theme parks are evolving. These "new" generations of themeparks are trying to make their worlds more alive, questing more dynamic and real, combat more realistic (i know, I know). Honestly, and this is complete conjecture and op, but the genre had its boom, its infancy, that vast majority of players are going to demand something beyond what they've seen. These new games are trying to cater to this burgeoning want.

Honestly, as is evident to me by the current crop of games trying to be more, dynamic questing, dynamic combat, and the only evolution of a themepark is to hide it better, to make a more complex, rich experience, which is to move towards sandbox. Not saying I am right, just stating what I think.

The only argument that I could see being valid is your point about linear story, and to be honest, I just think don't agree that it's the future of mmos. Perhaps I am wrong, we will see how SWTOR, TSW play out. You can get a linear story anywhere.

Anyway, thanks for the chat. These new crop of games has got me creeping again. :) Which is never a bad thing.

well... I gotta say you didn't say anything relevant to sandbox. all the things you talked are about were never exclusive to sandbox or even features of sandbox games.

finally you proved my other point, which was you manage to conveniently reject all other sandbox games except for the one good one. again on this forum, player like to preach how super awesome sandbox games are but will reject any game that doesn't meet their unrealistic delusions. 

My point, which you clearly missed, which could be my fault, or you could be dense, or combative by nature, was simply as these themepark games attempt to evolve, to create artificial ways to make the rails less visible. To make their worlds feel more alive, less scripted, the closer they come to what a sandbox does. Which is make a world alive, without the need of artificially creating that.

Some company is bound to see the logic in this. No, dynamic questing, or dynamic combat, or this new skill wheel thing in TSW were not in any sandbox before  (darkfall combat was dynamic, however the actual world was lacking) but the ideals of an alive world, of freedom of choice, of a complex, rich experience is a sandbox ideal.

Some day these companies will realize they don't need heavy artificial boundaries  to hide the rails and make the world feel real. Because they will realize they will no longer need the rails. Just a thought, not saying I'm right just stating a view point.

What other sandbox games that are playable did I reject? I'd be happy to give em a go.

Originally posted by ElVisitante

Originally posted by darkbamy

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by xposeidon

Um... how about immersive, interesting, detailed, complex, variety, choice, innovative, explorable, but above all... fun? I guess players are not expecting this anymore?

Tera is a ton of fun, and the combat in innovative.  The rest of it is just marketing jumbo that never holds up to scrutiny.  TSW is many of those things, but it's a mediocre game all the same.  Not that it won't be fun for a spell, but it doesn't have the foundation to stand upon to make people keep coming back.  Foundation is whats important, not all the shit you pile on top of it.

guess you never tried DCUO...kinda has the same combat and all

 

Anyways, Tera is just doomed to go F2P soon i mean it failed in 2 country's (japan and korea) and with all the censor going on its just....ya just no

Except it didn't. It's the third most played MMO in Korea, and that's because it doesn't have enough grind to it. For reference, Aion is the most played game, and we all know how grindy it is.

If you think Aion is grindy you should have played Luna....

Originally posted by dubyahite
Incorrect. The future is actually Planetside 2.

I agree, but its sad, because PS2 isnt really a MMO, but it has so many features that I could love.

Originally posted by lordathon

What we are expecting is just what we all want to see and experience. Even when some of us dont want to say it.

Unbelievably, there are people who do not like what you like, or simply people who do not necessarily reflect the forum community. I really do not appreciate other people telling me what I want.

- Excelent graphics

This is something a lot of people get wrong. Most of us care far less about the graphics (i.e., the shader quality, whether it uses DirectX 11, and how much of my hardware it eats up), but what we do care about is style. Which is why I, to this day, find WoW an acceptable-looking game with beautiful visuals despite the fact that it uses very little polygons.

I have no interest in Tera because the graphics STYLE (the thing that actually matters) is effing terrible.

- Major excelence for the game engine

Err, what?

- great speed conection servers

This is something I have never ever worried about in any MMORPG to date.

- large community...

If a game has such a small community that it actually matters it's probably a lousy game anyway.

- no bugs (ok, those stupid walls...)

No MMO was ruined for me by bugs. That includes WAR.

I think action play base for MMORPG  is for the moment the real thing. All the rest is just more of the same.

While most MMO's could definitely use an update to their combat, what you're saying implies that people never find turn-based RPG's interesting. Nevertheless, games like BG and NWN did just fine.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by dubyahite
Incorrect. The future is actually Planetside 2.

 

I agree, but its sad, because PS2 isnt really a MMO, but it has so many features that I could love.

Is it massive, multiplayer online .. or not? Persistant or not?

I believe it is an mmo. Just not really an RPG.

Originally posted by Irus

Originally posted by lordathon

What we are expecting is just what we all want to see and experience. Even when some of us dont want to say it.

Unbelievably, there are people who do not like what you like, or simply people who do not necessarily reflect the forum community. I really do not appreciate other people telling me what I want.

- Excelent graphics

This is something a lot of people get wrong. Most of us care far less about the graphics (i.e., the shader quality, whether it uses DirectX 11, and how much of my hardware it eats up), but what we do care about is style. Which is why I, to this day, find WoW an acceptable-looking game with beautiful visuals despite the fact that it uses very little polygons.

I have no interest in Tera because the graphics STYLE (the thing that actually matters) is effing terrible.

- Major excelence for the game engine

Err, what?

- great speed conection servers

This is something I have never ever worried about in any MMORPG to date.

- large community...

If a game has such a small community that it actually matters it's probably a lousy game anyway.

- no bugs (ok, those stupid walls...)

No MMO was ruined for me by bugs. That includes WAR.

I think action play base for MMORPG  is for the moment the real thing. All the rest is just more of the same.

While most MMO's could definitely use an update to their combat, what you're saying implies that people never find turn-based RPG's interesting. Nevertheless, games like BG and NWN did just fine.

 

Well sayd...

...But did u guys ever heard about archeage?

Are people so blind to not notice this game has been out in Korea going on 1+ years? The controls are the limiting factor as to why this game will never been main stream, so while it might have alot going for it how many people can actually play it.

You also run into the issue AND I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. The American audience and infrastructure is just not ready for the Crysis engine and this is 2+ years after Aion released we are still behind the Koreans.

So yes this will be a pvp game, but pvp'rs are cheap and disloyal and once GW2 drops which is basically free then we can talk about Tera.

The whole child in lingerie thing is the reason this game will forever be niche.  Any game that refers to "tank", "dps" and "niche" in game will not be the future of anything.  Because that gamneplay is already established in the past. 

Originally posted by darkbamy

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by xposeidon

Um... how about immersive, interesting, detailed, complex, variety, choice, innovative, explorable, but above all... fun? I guess players are not expecting this anymore?

Tera is a ton of fun, and the combat in innovative.  The rest of it is just marketing jumbo that never holds up to scrutiny.  TSW is many of those things, but it's a mediocre game all the same.  Not that it won't be fun for a spell, but it doesn't have the foundation to stand upon to make people keep coming back.  Foundation is whats important, not all the shit you pile on top of it.

guess you never tried DCUO...kinda has the same combat and all

Anyways, Tera is just doomed to go F2P soon i mean it failed in 2 country's (japan and korea) and with all the censor going on its just....ya just no

 

Yep, I did try DCUO.  It wasn't anywhere near as good.  It was a console port with a terrible UI and a mediocre combat system.  The only thing good about the game was it's PvP.

Just the fact that you're comparing them says quite a bit about how much you've actually played both games.

Also, I'm not given to thinking much of Korean's opinions of games.  They have a painfully poor taste in mechanics.  Aion is their #1 game after all, and that's an Aion that is even worse in it's grindiness than it's western counterpart.  

Originally posted by Puremallace

Are people so blind to not notice this game has been out in Korea going on 1+ years? The controls are the limiting factor as to why this game will never been main stream, so while it might have alot going for it how many people can actually play it.

 

You also run into the issue AND I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. The American audience and infrastructure is just not ready for the Crysis engine and this is 2+ years after Aion released we are still behind the Koreans.

 

So yes this will be a pvp game, but pvp'rs are cheap and disloyal and once GW2 drops which is basically free then we can talk about Tera.

Ehm...what? Anyways, GW2 will be successful because it is a one-time fee game, plain and simple. It has the "sure, why not?" and "what have I got to lose?" factor going for it. All Anet will do is tout all of its box sales forever and say the game is successful because of that, or cite skewed "active" players statistics where they include all people who have logged on for a particular month, even if they did nothing but just log in, run around in a city, and log out. And people WILL do that, simply because they can.

Mainstream =/= good.

Originally posted by Heinz130

Well sayd...

...But did u guys ever heard about archeage?

Eh. Archage is dealing with a lot of very, very dangerous mechanics. I'm curious to see what they come up with, but what they're trying to accomplish is NOT easy to do and I've seen games *ahem* TOR *ahem* fail trying to do far less.

Originally posted by dontadow

The whole child in lingerie thing is the reason this game will forever be niche.

And, this. Seriously. Wtf.

Originally posted by Irus

Originally posted by Heinz130

Well sayd...

...But did u guys ever heard about archeage?

Eh. Archage is dealing with a lot of very, very dangerous mechanics. I'm curious to see what they come up with, but what they're trying to accomplish is NOT easy to do and I've seen games *ahem* TOR *ahem* fail trying to do far less.

EXACTLY Irus,this what i meant,they are doing a EPIC game,the true 2nd life we all mmorpg players was waiting for,and trust me,they will succed,just look to the closed beta videos,that may take some time (after all years already spent,release "supose" to hapen in 2013) but that will be successfull

About the game being made for koreans,XLgames is making sure to include western players to make part of the betas,plus they already told the asian marked is not where thay are aiming,by my own thot,nobody wuld even make a epic game like that for a such small market while they culd have a world market looking to them.

Moreover,about the dangerous mechanics,i think that in the time we are,a "sick for good games,looking for perfection" ppl,just like the koreans actly are,are more than prepered to deal with it,with hard work it true,but still

While I'm enjoying Tera at the moment, GW2 will be my future for sure.

I've played Tera.  2 things that set that game apart:  Graphics and Combat.  In combat, it really does stand apart from the majority of other MMORPGs out there.  Positioning, distance, and actual avoidance are more in control by the player.  Stats play a role, but you have more physical input with what's going on.  It's also not as instance driven as some other notables out there.  Instances exist, but not to the point of obsession as some in the competition, and I was happy to see lots of players running around the same world as I was, and the chance to work with each other even out in the middle of nowhere.  Games are more dynamic like that.

That said, Tera, IMO, is not the future of MMORPG gaming.  I can see combat inspiring later stuff, but the rest of the game isn't really breaking any ground.

And neither do GW2 and SWTOR, most esp. the latter.

The genre as a whole isn't looking at the future.  It's still trying to figure out and do what Blizzard did in 2004.  Nobody in the AAA field of MMORPG development has the sack to do anything different.