Originally posted by helthros

It simply wouldn't work in GW2.

 

GW2 is the next evolution of what carebear gamers want. No class roles, self-sufficient classes with self-heals/defenses and capable of melee or ranged with the push of a button, interdependent grouping/pve, instanced PvP, running while casting/instant casts, no death penalty etc etc.

 

Personally I love the threat of being ganked while questing. I love in TERA how you can be doing some BAM fights when you notice a player stopping near you guys. Right away you know he's sizing your group up. Suddenly your BAM fight gets that much more interesting.

 

However, it's not all about ganking or being ganked as the carebears would have you believe. It's also about being able to murder the douche bags you will inevitably come in contact with in these games.

 

In TERA, EVE, Darkfall etc you can kill that person, make them kill on sight. They can be an enemy of your guild, corporation whatever.

 

In GW2 he's your ally - always. There's nothing you can really do about it. If this person you absolutely hate wants to join with you on your DE, he's welcome and downright encouraged to do so. In W v w v w vw, again, your ally whether you like it yor not.

Boils down to interdependent grouping again. You don't have to like them, but they are part of your group.

What alot of you are forgetting is that this is exactly what GW2 was build to do and encouraged to do. This is not an afterthought. This is exactly what they have been marketing , what every GW2 fan knows they are getting.

Basically, its either you like it or not.

Like many others have explained, GW2 is build from everyone is your friend, regardless of if you like them or not, if you don't like your server, transfer to another. You want to PVP, go to the mist, you don't want to go to the mist to PVP go to another game. Simple

Its not about Carebear, its not about being hardcore, its about playing GW2 if you like it, or don't play it if you don't like it.

The Developers don't want PVP, RP servers to mess with their WvWvW rotations, so there is no RP or PVP designated Servers. Again, Anet is very upfront about this decision. They don't want PVP or RP servers, they want every server to be the same. Therefore regardless of whether or not you feel Hardcore and need to gank every day, every second, you can not do it with GW2.

Other fans might state that WvWvW can satisfy your ganking needs, yes for some, but I understand that you want to surprise your lowbie population to satisfy your Sociopathic needs, its okay, there are tons of other games that offer it. Feel free to move on to those games.

If GW2 is carebear in your opinion, then no one will ever change your mind, move on to another that satisfies your hardcore needs. GW2 is one of the only games being developed that I can firmly state that the information is out there, There is no PVP server, there is no Open World PVP, don't be surprised that there is no Open World PVP.

Originally posted by helthros

GW2 is the next evolution of what carebear gamers want.

As opposed to the usual rubbish of ultra carebear PvP based on lvls/ class/ gear and, ofc, GANKs.

Always sounds funny when people that support that model of PvP call others 'carebears' when their entire playstyle revolves around finding the easiest lamest kills possible.

I swear WvW in GW2 actually scares some of these guys because they know they won't have the kind of artificial advantage they are used to and that those there are ready for a fight.

Originally posted by helthros

It simply wouldn't work in GW2.

 

GW2 is the next evolution of what carebear gamers want. No class roles, self-sufficient classes with self-heals/defenses and capable of melee or ranged with the push of a button, interdependent grouping/pve, instanced PvP, running while casting/instant casts, no death penalty etc etc.

 

Personally I love the threat of being ganked while questing. I love in TERA how you can be doing some BAM fights when you notice a player stopping near you guys. Right away you know he's sizing your group up. Suddenly your BAM fight gets that much more interesting.

 

However, it's not all about ganking or being ganked as the carebears would have you believe. It's also about being able to murder the douche bags you will inevitably come in contact with in these games.

 

In TERA, EVE, Darkfall etc you can kill that person, make them kill on sight. They can be an enemy of your guild, corporation whatever.

 

In GW2 he's your ally - always. There's nothing you can really do about it. If this person you absolutely hate wants to join with you on your DE, he's welcome and downright encouraged to do so. In W v w v w vw, again, your ally whether you like it yor not.

Boils down to interdependent grouping again. You don't have to like them, but they are part of your group.

loool. " i love the THREAT of being ganked...".

you may love the THREAT but when you want play and have guild just gank low lvl guys, this isnt a THREAT. the feel of danger maybe is good but when have some guys that for some reason dont allow you play (and this happen in Tera betas ) where is the fun???? is so fun i pay for a game and i cant even play....

hopefully lot and lot of people (just see how much people waant play GW2) hate gank pvp. GW2 is not that game, if you dont like dont play because pvp server will never happen.

and world open pvp isnt hardcore, hardcore is something hard but possivle, worl pvp most of time is gank pvp so is impossible to win. in this kind of pvp, 90% dont even are good players because they dont need, just need to have high lvl + better stats and will win with 3 hits (even 1 hit kill if the diference is huge) .

People asking for PVP in a game like this have no idea about the lore, nor care.  They comnplain about games all being the same, then argue to have elements put in that are like other games.  That are the cause of problems of other games. 

Guild Wars 1, campaign, had nothing to do with pvp combat.  The story was about how society came together to fight a bigger evil and the small evils it spawned.  This one isthe same.  The reason why no one wants it, is because, this is a role playing gamne, and your'e asking for something to be implemented into the game that has no logic with the story.  

A lot of games are fine with this kind of idiotic writing, Anet isn't going that route.   

The fact that people who support thatkind of playbay use derogatory words like "carebear" is proof of who plays on this server. E-bullies and nonrpgers.  

Wouldnt a pvp server take away from the structure of the game? I think that would not be a good idea. It just wouldn't fit in "guild" wars if my perspective is suppose to be that the people on my server are on my side... no?

Originally posted by Masa1

Originally posted by Corehaven

What you mean like getting stabbed in the back while at half health while fighting three mobs at the same time?  Then I rez, run back, kill the guy who killed me, and this process repeats for the next hour and a half while nobody gets anything done. 

 

Yea I admit Im going to miss that intensly in GW2.  Let me tell ya. 

 

I guess I'll just have to settle with a gigantic map, consisting of hundreds of players, attempting to capture castles and defend them.  With seige weapons and such.  Its a darn poor substitute but I guess I'll live. 

Then don't play in the PvP server you frigging idiot.

While the insult was completely unnecessary the point does stand. I will never get those that balk about these things when a game offers servers with separate gameplay rules such as PvP and PvE.

I can understand people who want options but you have to rememeber the overall design decisions of the game. ANet want gW2 to be a co-op game in pve. Dynamic events wouldn't even work if your aoe could kill other players. They would have to remake big portions of the game. Sometimes people have to accept how the games are made. If you want open world pvp then you should look for other game.

As much as I enjoy OWPvP it's not going to happen. The game has been built on the foundations of separating PvE, WvWvW and Structured PvP and there would be a conflict with the game's mechanics. To add OWPvP I assume would take a lot of resources and work, and that's if it's still possible and for just one server? I think not.

The game isn't designed for the kind of pvp you are looking for.

Originally posted by QSatu

I can understand people who want options but you have to rememeber the overall design decisions of the game. ANet want gW2 to be a co-op game in pve. Dynamic events wouldn't even work if your aoe could kill other players. They would have to remake big portions of the game. Sometimes people have to accept how the games are made. If you want open world pvp then you should look for other game.

 Yes, unfortunately with the way this game is designed it isn't possible.

Would be interesting if a game in the future incorporated the concept and pending on which faction won the de or completed it first there would be differing DE that would branch off from there. It could get really interesting if done properly.

FFA PvP / open PvP doesn't work because of the players and the hand holding devs give to PK's.

Ever since UO the devs have always favored the PK's at the expense of their victims.

Hard to rez as a PK? OK we'll add Red healers.

Hard to bank as a PK? OK we'll add Buc's Den, as well as housing with keys you that you cant lose (in the old days people could pick pocket your house key or steal it off your corpse and steal your house, but that was too "hardcore" for the PK's to not whine about.)

Being a PK is supposed to be HARDER than being someone who "follows the rules," not easier.

Once dev's figure this out and make being a PK a very difficult play style, as it should be, I'll support FFA / Open PvP.

PK's need to live in fear and constant danger for the play style to make sense.

The more freebies and easy way's out you give PKs, the more they will outnumber the victims and the whole system fails.

The PK play style is supposed to be for the select few, the really hardcore who can deal with and strive under the immense challenges.

PK shouldn't have access to any town/resources like banks/vendors - PK shouldn't be able to own a home or have a "home base" that isn't under constant threat/siege.

In order for PK to work right in a MMO, you'd need to have an extremely well fleshed out "survivalist" crafting/trade skills group of skills so they PK can be a wandering brigand, living off the land, keeping their equipment in repair themselves with resources they find in the wilds or take from their victims, etc.

I think that'd be awesome to be able to live off the land in the wilds as an outlaw without any chance of being accepted in any town/city/camp/home base etc.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Masa1

Originally posted by Corehaven

What you mean like getting stabbed in the back while at half health while fighting three mobs at the same time?  Then I rez, run back, kill the guy who killed me, and this process repeats for the next hour and a half while nobody gets anything done. 

 

Yea I admit Im going to miss that intensly in GW2.  Let me tell ya. 

 

I guess I'll just have to settle with a gigantic map, consisting of hundreds of players, attempting to capture castles and defend them.  With seige weapons and such.  Its a darn poor substitute but I guess I'll live. 

Then don't play in the PvP server you frigging idiot.

While the insult was completely unnecessary the point does stand. I will never get those that balk about these things when a game offers servers with separate gameplay rules such as PvP and PvE.

What you guys are failing to understand is that the game is not designed for pvp servers. Name me one game that was not designed for Open World Pvp, and added it later, which has not had those servers turn into ghost towns quicker than their other servers.

This is the same crap that happened with WAR. Players complained & complained about adding PvP servers, to hell with what it did to the game design, and surprise surprise those servers bombed within a month. Mythic basically wasted a month's worth of developer time coming up w/ a compromise, testing, and implementing it, on a system that ultimately noone really wanted.

Anet has their own compromise, in the form of 4 gigantic areas dedicated to pvp. Those areas also have pve objectives in them, so if that is truly the experience you want (and you don't just want to gank lowbies), it's there. Separated from the rest of the game. If it's truly that sense of danger players are looking for, and they aren't just using that as an excuse to be able to gank, then it's there in WvW. However, experience leads me to believe that, contrary to what most may claim on these forums, most of these players actually just want to gank lowbies, and aren't as honorable as they want us to believe.

Point here he's making is that it wouldn't be hard for them to have a free for all pvp server. To some people, like myself, real pvp is when you don't expect it, when there's the chance of it happening at any moment. Its not planned, and instance only like GW2 is.

Having a pvp server wouldn't effect any one of you that would play on a pve server, so I'm not sure why you would care.

ArenaNets loss, because they will lose out on a large chunk of players such as myself. Just look at WoW and the % of servers that are pvp. 40% maybe? There's a market that they are missing out on.

Originally posted by Masa1

Originally posted by Corehaven

What you mean like getting stabbed in the back while at half health while fighting three mobs at the same time?  Then I rez, run back, kill the guy who killed me, and this process repeats for the next hour and a half while nobody gets anything done. 

 

Yea I admit Im going to miss that intensly in GW2.  Let me tell ya. 

 

I guess I'll just have to settle with a gigantic map, consisting of hundreds of players, attempting to capture castles and defend them.  With seige weapons and such.  Its a darn poor substitute but I guess I'll live. 

Then don't play in the PvP server you frigging idiot.

He won't be.  That's the point.  He's chosen a game where the problems of OWPvP don't exist.  What you folks need to accept is that it's *you* who need to find another game to play because this one will never give you that experience, nor was it ever intended to.  Stop asking for this one to change to suit you.  Find another.

Originally posted by BadSpock

FFA PvP / open PvP doesn't work because of the players and the hand holding devs give to PK's.

Ever since UO the devs have always favored the PK's at the expense of their victims.

Hard to rez as a PK? OK we'll add Red healers.

Hard to bank as a PK? OK we'll add Buc's Den, as well as housing with keys you that you cant lose (in the old days people could pick pocket your house key or steal it off your corpse and steal your house, but that was too "hardcore" for the PK's to not whine about.)

 

Being a PK is supposed to be HARDER than being someone who "follows the rules," not easier.

Once dev's figure this out and make being a PK a very difficult play style, as it should be, I'll support FFA / Open PvP.

PK's need to live in fear and constant danger for the play style to make sense.

The more freebies and easy way's out you give PKs, the more they will outnumber the victims and the whole system fails.

 

The PK play style is supposed to be for the select few, the really hardcore who can deal with and strive under the immense challenges.

PK shouldn't have access to any town/resources like banks/vendors - PK shouldn't be able to own a home or have a "home base" that isn't under constant threat/siege.

In order for PK to work right in a MMO, you'd need to have an extremely well fleshed out "survivalist" crafting/trade skills group of skills so they PK can be a wandering brigand, living off the land, keeping their equipment in repair themselves with resources they find in the wilds or take from their victims, etc.

I think that'd be awesome to be able to live off the land in the wilds as an outlaw without any chance of being accepted in any town/city/camp/home base etc.

THe MMO design was definately limited by the tech.  I know what ultima was going for at first. IN the real games, u could attack or kill any citizen.  There was never any reason to do it, it actually was a dumb move if u did. Because if u did, every guard in the city would hunt you down.  The only point in doing it was to see how fast u could get out of town and avoid town guards.  i wish I could go back in time and show the designers what they did, now they have invited a host of party crashers to a private party that have no intention of learning how to actually play an rpg. The games were dumbed down and the play mechanics simplified and repeated. 

Originally posted by Abdar

Point here he's making is that it wouldn't be hard for them to have a free for all pvp server. To some people, like myself, real pvp is when you don't expect it, when there's the chance of it happening at any moment. Its not planned, and instance only like GW2 is.

Having a pvp server wouldn't effect any one of you that would play on a pve server, so I'm not sure why you would care.

ArenaNets loss, because they will lose out on a large chunk of players such as myself. Just look at WoW and the % of servers that are pvp. 40% maybe? There's a market that they are missing out on.

You don't get - a PvP server wouldn't work with the way the game systems are set up - it would take a massive effort to re-do game systems to work in a PvP server environment that would take away from dev time for the rest of the game, so it would effect everything.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by helthros

GW2 is the next evolution of what carebear gamers want.

 

As opposed to the usual rubbish of ultra carebear PvP based on lvls/ class/ gear and, ofc, GANKs.

Always sounds funny when people that support that model of PvP call others 'carebears' when their entire playstyle revolves around finding the easiest lamest kills possible.

I swear WvW in GW2 actually scares some of these guys because they know they won't have the kind of artificial advantage they are used to and that those there are ready for a fight.

Sounds about right because they can't gank and use cheats to win so they cry. Oh well...

I thought about it a few days and since you can level up in WvWvW all you want I believe the folks who want a PvP server are not that good a PvP and just want to go around ganking unsuspecting gamers who are doing PvE. So I stick with my choice and there is no need for a PvP server in GW2.

Since I have played many games this does fit the mindset of most people who scream for FFA PvP or a PvP server in a PvE game, these players do not truly want to PvP they want to be azzhats.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Being a PK is supposed to be HARDER than being someone who "follows the rules," not easier.

Once dev's figure this out and make being a PK a very difficult play style, as it should be, I'll support FFA / Open PvP.

PK's need to live in fear and constant danger for the play style to make sense.

The more freebies and easy way's out you give PKs, the more they will outnumber the victims and the whole system fails.

 

The PK play style is supposed to be for the select few, the really hardcore who can deal with and strive under the immense challenges.

PK shouldn't have access to any town/resources like banks/vendors - PK shouldn't be able to own a home or have a "home base" that isn't under constant threat/siege.

In order for PK to work right in a MMO, you'd need to have an extremely well fleshed out "survivalist" crafting/trade skills group of skills so they PK can be a wandering brigand, living off the land, keeping their equipment in repair themselves with resources they find in the wilds or take from their victims, etc.

I think that'd be awesome to be able to live off the land in the wilds as an outlaw without any chance of being accepted in any town/city/camp/home base etc.

This ^

Completely agree w/ you on this one Spock. It's been a LONG time since I've played a game that allowed anything close to this. And it's definitely the only type of FFA pvp I actually enjoy. Cutting off towns, adding a PK jail / PK penalties, bounties, etc. These are all things that OPvP games these days are missing. As you said, PKing should be discouraged, as it should make it harder for you to get around in the game, and more problematic if you die. Instead it's actually encouraged by most games, because there is little-no penalty for doing it. TERA is a really good, modern, example of this.

OPvP can be fun, but there hasn't been a single MMO in almost a decade that has really come close enough to make it a viable option. Eve had a good approach to it, but it wasn't quite the same. Shadowbane was pretty good, but short lived. However, even these made it too easy to get away w/ ganking repeatedly w/ out consequences.

Originally posted by dontadow

THe MMO design was definately limited by the tech.  I know what ultima was going for at first. IN the real games, u could attack or kill any citizen.  There was never any reason to do it, it actually was a dumb move if u did. Because if u did, every guard in the city would hunt you down.  The only point in doing it was to see how fast u could get out of town and avoid town guards.  i wish I could go back in time and show the designers what they did, now they have invited a host of party crashers to a private party that have no intention of learning how to actually play an rpg. The games were dumbed down and the play mechanics simplified and repeated. 

I honestly think the devs of UO didn't expect that EVERYONE would play such a dog-eat-dog style, they probably honestly expected the majority of players to work together and cooperate and be friendly.

That the PvP would be just groups of players (clans) fighting each other only for RP and not just random asshats ganking everyone they saw.

I think they understimated how much of an ass people are when they are online and annonymous.

Not their fault, was mostly un-proven grounds back in '97.