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General Discussion  » Bad media reactions

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48 posts found
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/09/12 1:27:57 PM#21
Originally posted by AdamTM

I know TES history, all im saying is that in 2005 leaving out the skill-based progression in favor of classes is -more- understandable in the transition to mmorpg than it is now.

I do not condone nor do i support that design-decission.

We agree, im just adding a blurb of my own.

on the overall MMO landscape that is true. However what I am saying is to sit in an TES office on any date between 1996 to now and say 'guys we should not do skill based this time and go for classes' is extreemly risky given the fan base REGARDLESS of what the rest of the MMO world is or is not doing.

 

 

Correlation does not imply causation

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/09/12 2:09:10 PM#22
Originally posted by Elikal
...

*Hand wave @Zenimax* You want to scrap development and rethink your design philosophy.

Frankly, you should tell Zenimax to rethink their marketing strategy and perhaps their payment model (that hasn't been announced yet as far as I know).

A game that recently has had a very successful beta weekend (I believe the fans in that) has almost exactly the same design philosophy like the one in TESO: focus on 3-faction PvP for endgame, provide e-sport PvP, provide a hotbar combat with few skills, provide somewhat actiony combat, provide "dynamic" quests, do away with quest hubs. Sounds familiar?

Both GW2 and TESO are themeparks that have put roughly the same twist to the themepark formula. The only difference in their respective reception is due to marketing and player expectations.

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/09/12 2:22:46 PM#23
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by Elikal
...

*Hand wave @Zenimax* You want to scrap development and rethink your design philosophy.

Frankly, you should tell Zenimax to rethink their marketing strategy and perhaps their payment model (that hasn't been announced yet as far as I know).

A game that recently has had a very successful beta weekend (I believe the fans in that) has almost exactly the same design philosophy like the one in TESO: focus on 3-faction PvP for endgame, provide e-sport PvP, provide a hotbar combat with few skills, provide somewhat actiony combat, provide "dynamic" quests, do away with quest hubs. Sounds familiar?

Both GW2 and TESO are themeparks that have put roughly the same twist to the themepark formula. The only difference in their respective reception is due to marketing and player expectations.

payment model...lol

yeah I dont like playing classes, I like having housing, I dont like 3rd person view, I dont like tab targeting and I dont like things to be quest dependent which is why I like TES so much but if you drop the price or make it free to play it makes it all better.

 

lol....no

Correlation does not imply causation

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/09/12 2:48:52 PM#24
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
...

payment model...lol

yeah I dont like playing classes, I like having housing, I dont like 3rd person view, I dont like tab targeting and I dont like things to be quest dependent which is why I like TES so much but if you drop the price or make it free to play it makes it all better.

 

lol....no

I know that you don't like it that way (neither do I), you're practically living on these forums currently, hard to miss what your gaming preferences are. :)

But this is a thread about media reactions and not about Sean's reaction and I pointed out that another not yet released game with largely the same feature set and design philosophy like TESO is currently getting stellar reviews from media and players alike.

(And no, I don't play that other game either.)

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/09/12 2:52:50 PM#25
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
...

payment model...lol

yeah I dont like playing classes, I like having housing, I dont like 3rd person view, I dont like tab targeting and I dont like things to be quest dependent which is why I like TES so much but if you drop the price or make it free to play it makes it all better.

 

lol....no

I know that you don't like it that way (neither do I), you're practically living on these forums currently, hard to miss what your gaming preferences are. :)

But this is a thread about media reactions and not about Sean's reaction and I pointed out that another not yet released game with largely the same feature set and design philosophy like TESO is currently getting stellar reviews from media and players alike.

(And no, I don't play that other game either.)

talk about a massive non-sequitur.

what does payment model have to do with media reaction?

Correlation does not imply causation

  User Deleted
5/09/12 2:56:24 PM#26
Originally posted by ProfRed

How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

Its called Corporate Greed.  They for some reason still believe that its safer to steal a portion of the 10 million subscribers away from WoW instead of make a game the 290 million people who dont play WoW.  Makes no sense to me but then again I dont have a Statisctical Engineering degree from MIT to prove my theory.

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

5/09/12 3:07:47 PM#27

To me the core of TES has been:  First person perspective, aimed combat, skill based progression, character housing, custom created classes, and lush graphically intensive environments for free-roaming exploration.

 

Given what I've heard so far of TESO, I can't say I'm surprised by the negative media reaction.

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Mirslp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/10
Posts: 39

5/09/12 3:10:28 PM#28
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by ProfRed

How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

Its called Corporate Greed.  They for some reason still believe that its safer to steal a portion of the 10 million subscribers away from WoW instead of make a game the 290 million people who dont play WoW.  Makes no sense to me but then again I dont have a Statisctical Engineering degree from MIT to prove my theory.

So true... Corporate greed AND lazyness.

Id hire you without the MIT..... cz you are right! Noone makes money on copying unless they add value.

So lets see if they add value... by the looks of the screenshot... with cartoon graphics... Im not holding my breath.

 

I played TES since morrowind and love the Semi-realistic graphics... This just kills so much immersion..

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/09/12 3:26:23 PM#29

This is one of the FEW times the media actually knows what it is reporting about.

It is next to impossible, notice I didnt say its IMPOSSIBLE, but next to impossible to make a TES MMO without abandoning everything that made the series a success...so fans of the games should be highly on edge especially since it isnt even Bethesda making the game.

Why were the TES games so popular?

1. yes the single #1 reason...the modding community. Not the story, not the game world, not the combat, or class progression. The MODS. Bethesda stated it themselves. The modding community is so large and popular that they were still selling a large amount of copies after every major MOD for the last 3 TES games years after release.

Every point after this can be placed in any order.

2. Combat/spell casting. Who were the most pissed off about Skyrim? People that played casters. Why? the massive change to the casting system...limited to 2 active spells and all of them were weak! Combat style is very important...we dont want our PC game turned into a Console game, they are too damn limited which is why there are several mods for the PC version that vastly improves casting and spells making it more in line with previous TES computer versions.

3. Open class progression. The only MMORPG like this was Asherons Call and even that was limited to whatever skills you chose with your points...but you could swing a sword wearing armor and still melt someones face off. We know we wont see it in a non-Bethesda made MMO, especially one made by someone that was part of the DAoC team.

4. Variety. I can use any weapon or cast 100s of different spells in TES...an MMORPG will be limited because MMO designers cant get their heads out of their backsides when it comes to trapping us with massive limitations. Yeah, I want to play a character that can pick up any weapon and use it and not be limited to such a small variety...you are making a game based on LONGEVITY for pete's sake, drop the cookie cutter class crap already.

5. Story...Story is important for a single player game. Story is next to meaningless in an MMORPG if the GAMEPLAY isnt what we want. Example: SWTOR. Great story, crap game...playerbase is slowly vanishing...no I dont want to hear about it because complaints from all the original pre-start servers are showing complaints about wanting server mergers. You dont go from 2-3 hour long queues with 10s of thousands playing to having just 90 or so people at fleet during peek weekend hours when it was 400-500 with massive lag 3 months ago.

 

Point #1 can be done, the upcoming D&D game will have it via the Foundry...but TESO, I doubt it very very highly because of who is running the show. They have no connection with Bethesda's playerbase and I am sure are 100% clueless to what we want or like.

Points 2-4 are going to be next to impossible to do in an MMORPG...and THAT is why I have no faith in TESO being anything other than TES in name only.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Kelthius

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/10
Posts: 308

5/09/12 4:38:15 PM#30

Something huge for me, in addition to the class based system, is the lack of pets. In every elder scrolls game I've played my main focus was conjuration, summoning/necromancy in particular. I love the concept of Arthas, not his personality. Plate armor, long/2h sword, diseases, cold magic, and an army of undead. Skyrim allows me to do that better than any game up to date. The lack of pets kills that for me and provides more evidence to the thought that they don't want to do anything that would provide them with too much of a challenge.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2407

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

5/09/12 4:40:44 PM#31

I will give the game a chance. I try to give every game a chance if I am interested in it. Have to say though... I would have LOVED Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind Online...

 

Someone make me EvE Online but with a fantasy setting, thats all I ask. My birthday is in February, so you have a bit of time, now chop chop!

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Kelthius

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/10
Posts: 308

5/09/12 4:46:27 PM#32
Originally posted by Slampig

I will give the game a chance. I try to give every game a chance if I am interested in it. Have to say though... I would have LOVED Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind Online...

 

Someone make me EvE Online but with a fantasy setting, thats all I ask. My birthday is in February, so you have a bit of time, now chop chop!

Same here. I'm just going to be extremely critcal while I wait. At least CCP is making WOD, though it probably won't be out for about 3 years.

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

5/09/12 6:21:23 PM#33

M'aiq thinks making Elderscrolls Into a online MMO is bad idea. M'aiq is afraid  stupid, dumb elitist Imperial developers will turn game into a WoW formula game. M'aiq will start doing more skooma and will have to go to drug rehab if that happens...

  Morcelll

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/09
Posts: 412

5/09/12 8:28:51 PM#34
All of you on here whining should actually read the Game Informer debut, this game is going to be anything but a WoW clone. The screenshots in there look a lot better although not as much in the direction as the single player games that we like, although that is okay. The combat system sounds really cool, the skill selection is kind of a blending of GW2 and a little bit of the freedom of GW1. There is an interesting stamina mechanic for blocks, interrupts, and sprints across all classes. The PvE sounds like some it is trying to be Dynamic Events without saying the word, some of it is phased questing, and there are even public dungeons.
One of the lead devs was the lead dev for UO, another one is a big dev from DAOC, this will not be the generic crap we are used to. There is no artificial AI that helps create the holy trinity, but there still is some healing. Will this game be the true open sandbox we want it to be? By all means no, but I still think it will be a huge breath of fresh air for the MMO market, it sounds like a lot of stuff they are doing is more along the GW2 route with some distinct differences. I like that, and I look forward to this game. Unlike with SWTOR where you read the features and knew it would be a generic WoW clone, but this game has a different foundation.
  Worstluck

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 1280

No man controls my destiny... especially not one who attacks downwind and stinks of garlic.

5/09/12 8:39:57 PM#35

I posted something similar in another thread, but do you think it would be smart for Zenimax to make a Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online, effectively killing off the single player series?  Wouldn't it be better for them to develop an online game using the Elder Scrolls lore, however be different enough to attact a different type of gamer than open world games?  They can keep on making the single player games open world and classless and attract all those types of gamers, while maintaining a more restrictive game with different features aimed a different type of gamer.

 

I would love an online version of Skyrim don't get me wrong.  However....if that means that I would not longer be getting single player versions of the game no thanks.  They would not want ruin what they have going with Skryim.  I would like to play both the online version and future iterations fo the single player games personally.  I love the ES universe.

 

 

  GN-003

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/10
Posts: 78

5/09/12 10:05:39 PM#36
Originally posted by jtcgs
 
3. Open class progression. The only MMORPG like this was Asherons Call and even that was limited to whatever skills you chose with your points...but you could swing a sword wearing armor and still melt someones face off. We know we wont see it in a non-Bethesda made MMO, especially one made by someone that was part of the DAoC team.
4. Variety. I can use any weapon or cast 100s of different spells in TES...an MMORPG will be limited because MMO designers cant get their heads out of their backsides when it comes to trapping us with massive limitations. Yeah, I want to play a character that can pick up any weapon and use it and not be limited to such a small variety...you are making a game based on LONGEVITY for pete's sake, drop the cookie cutter class crap already.
 

Mabinogi says "hello."

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

5/10/12 3:47:03 AM#37
Originally posted by trash656

M'aiq thinks making Elderscrolls Into a online MMO is bad idea. M'aiq is afraid  stupid, dumb elitist Imperial developers will turn game into a WoW formula game. M'aiq will start doing more skooma and will have to go to drug rehab if that happens...

*grin*

Here's a screenshot if this sounds cryptic.

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  MikkelB

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/06
Posts: 240

5/10/12 4:18:20 AM#38
Originally posted by ActionMMORPG
Originally posted by trash656

M'aiq thinks making Elderscrolls Into a online MMO is bad idea. M'aiq is afraid  stupid, dumb elitist Imperial developers will turn game into a WoW formula game. M'aiq will start doing more skooma and will have to go to drug rehab if that happens...

*grin*

Here's a screenshot if this sounds cryptic.

M'aiq never gets old, awesome!

Seeing the rumors going on, I can't shake the feeling that they shouldn't have used The Elder Scrolls brand for this MMORPG. The main entries in the series all shared roughly the same mechanics and supported pretty much the same playstyle. Class based, three factions, etc. just ruin that for me. The game can still be great, but I'm very wary now. I didn't like the spinoffs of The Elder Scrolls. I also wonder how this ties in with the lore.

...

Three factions based PvP. For fuck sake, I join most Guilds, become Guildmaster of them all and now they try to limit me to one bloody faction? To one class?! And where the hell are the Imperials?! 

  Warmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2240

5/10/12 7:26:31 AM#39
Originally posted by Elikal

Forbes: Do we need an Elder Scrolls MMO?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/05/07/do-we-need-an-elder-scrolls-mmo/

LOL, jeez, even Forbes is in on this!

Bethesda has some serious work to do to get the TES name out of the gutter, thanks to some other hacks dragging the name in the mud.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/10/12 11:07:41 AM#40
Originally posted by Warmaker
Originally posted by Elikal

Forbes: Do we need an Elder Scrolls MMO?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/05/07/do-we-need-an-elder-scrolls-mmo/

LOL, jeez, even Forbes is in on this!

Bethesda has some serious work to do to get the TES name out of the gutter, thanks to some other hacks dragging the name in the mud.

yeah I just read this article and I agree with some but not all.

The problem the media as well some fellow gamers are having trouble understanding is that it doesnt have to be EXACLTY like Skyrim or NOT ALL like Skyrim.

of course an MMO cant have items all over the place that you can knock down and kick around. Sure once I tried to fill my house with as much junk as I could and that was fun but to have that in an MMO is of course crazy talk but that doesnt mean that becaue of that I have to have classes instead of skill based!

Correlation does not imply causation

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