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General Discussion  » GW2 the New Touchstone for MMOs?

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166 posts found
  Goreson

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/11
Posts: 128

5/08/12 6:05:58 PM#101
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

You guys thinkg GW2 is something new, lol GW2 is a ripoff of Rift, Warhammer online and DAOC.

 

Rift - stole idea of events that occur at random on the world

Warhammer - Stole idea of public quest and made their quest out of it

DAOC - Their PVP is simply DAOC PVP brought to 2012.

Can you name one game where you can get all 3--Rift's invasions, Warhammer's PQs and DOAC PvP?

heartless, is that important for you? I mean that the game has all 3 features? I'm sure if you dig around there will be other games that have these features (sort of) but potentially the quality for them is exceptionally bad (in somebody's opinion)...

Which is my personal problem with GW2: features done with quality lacking

 

 

Yes, it is important to me. I want an MMORPG with Rift's invasions, WAR's PQs and DAOC's meaningful RvR PvP. Please find me a game that has all 3 of those features as I do not want to pay 3 subscription fees.

I mean, since GW2 offers nothing new, I'm sure that there are multiple MMOs out there that have all 3 of those features.

Edit: also throw in NPCs that actually have routines. I love Skyrim and would love to have that feature in an MMO. I'm sure that other MMOs have NPCs like that, since GW2 offers nothing new.

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

5/08/12 6:13:00 PM#102
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

You guys thinkg GW2 is something new, lol GW2 is a ripoff of Rift, Warhammer online and DAOC.

 

Rift - stole idea of events that occur at random on the world

Warhammer - Stole idea of public quest and made their quest out of it

DAOC - Their PVP is simply DAOC PVP brought to 2012.

Can you name one game where you can get all 3--Rift's invasions, Warhammer's PQs and DOAC PvP?

heartless, is that important for you? I mean that the game has all 3 features? I'm sure if you dig around there will be other games that have these features (sort of) but potentially the quality for them is exceptionally bad (in somebody's opinion)...

Which is my personal problem with GW2: features done with quality lacking

 

 

Yes, it is important to me. I want an MMORPG with Rift's invasions, WAR's PQs and DAOC's meaningful RvR PvP. Please find me a game that has all 3 of those features as I do not want to pay 3 subscription fees.

I mean, since GW2 offers nothing new, I'm sure that there are multiple MMOs out there that have all 3 of those features.

Edit: also throw in NPCs that actually have routines. I love Skyrim and would love to have that feature in an MMO. I'm sure that other MMOs have NPCs like that, since GW2 offers nothing new.

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

Huh?  Do you honestly believe that PQ or a rift is higher quality than the Dynamic Events.

I have played all three games.  They are not higher quality.  They just aren't.

 

The only one of those three I can say anyone honestly saying was higher quality was DAOC RvR.  I mean I don't think so.  But its at least plausiable.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/08/12 6:13:47 PM#103
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

You guys thinkg GW2 is something new, lol GW2 is a ripoff of Rift, Warhammer online and DAOC.

 

Rift - stole idea of events that occur at random on the world

Warhammer - Stole idea of public quest and made their quest out of it

DAOC - Their PVP is simply DAOC PVP brought to 2012.

Can you name one game where you can get all 3--Rift's invasions, Warhammer's PQs and DOAC PvP?

heartless, is that important for you? I mean that the game has all 3 features? I'm sure if you dig around there will be other games that have these features (sort of) but potentially the quality for them is exceptionally bad (in somebody's opinion)...

Which is my personal problem with GW2: features done with quality lacking

 

 

Yes, it is important to me. I want an MMORPG with Rift's invasions, WAR's PQs and DAOC's meaningful RvR PvP. Please find me a game that has all 3 of those features as I do not want to pay 3 subscription fees.

I mean, since GW2 offers nothing new, I'm sure that there are multiple MMOs out there that have all 3 of those features.

Edit: also throw in NPCs that actually have routines. I love Skyrim and would love to have that feature in an MMO. I'm sure that other MMOs have NPCs like that, since GW2 offers nothing new.

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

You can't be serious... I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that GW2's dynamic events are not better than Rift's invasions and WAR's PQs? Have you actually played the game past level 4?

I think that we're done here. I'm all for constructive criticism but only if it has basis in reality, not delusion.

  Goreson

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/11
Posts: 128

5/08/12 6:38:17 PM#104
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

You guys thinkg GW2 is something new, lol GW2 is a ripoff of Rift, Warhammer online and DAOC.

 

Rift - stole idea of events that occur at random on the world

Warhammer - Stole idea of public quest and made their quest out of it

DAOC - Their PVP is simply DAOC PVP brought to 2012.

Can you name one game where you can get all 3--Rift's invasions, Warhammer's PQs and DOAC PvP?

heartless, is that important for you? I mean that the game has all 3 features? I'm sure if you dig around there will be other games that have these features (sort of) but potentially the quality for them is exceptionally bad (in somebody's opinion)...

Which is my personal problem with GW2: features done with quality lacking

 

 

Yes, it is important to me. I want an MMORPG with Rift's invasions, WAR's PQs and DAOC's meaningful RvR PvP. Please find me a game that has all 3 of those features as I do not want to pay 3 subscription fees.

I mean, since GW2 offers nothing new, I'm sure that there are multiple MMOs out there that have all 3 of those features.

Edit: also throw in NPCs that actually have routines. I love Skyrim and would love to have that feature in an MMO. I'm sure that other MMOs have NPCs like that, since GW2 offers nothing new.

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

You can't be serious... I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that GW2's dynamic events are not better than Rift's invasions and WAR's PQs? Have you actually played the game past level 4?

I think that we're done here. I'm all for constructive criticism but only if it has basis in reality, not delusion.

I should probably answer that one with just as cool a line as your 'OK,bye!' but see, I never cared for Dynamic Events and what happened in GW2 just didn't make me go "yeah, DE, the best things I never did do"

So, I can do fine with a game without them... yet a game with RvR/WvWvW *swoon* <- at least when it's good. And as I said before GW2's WvWvW is just hollow game mechanics, nothing more.

 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4152

5/08/12 6:56:48 PM#105
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

You guys thinkg GW2 is something new, lol GW2 is a ripoff of Rift, Warhammer online and DAOC.

 

Rift - stole idea of events that occur at random on the world

Warhammer - Stole idea of public quest and made their quest out of it

DAOC - Their PVP is simply DAOC PVP brought to 2012.

Can you name one game where you can get all 3--Rift's invasions, Warhammer's PQs and DOAC PvP?

heartless, is that important for you? I mean that the game has all 3 features? I'm sure if you dig around there will be other games that have these features (sort of) but potentially the quality for them is exceptionally bad (in somebody's opinion)...

Which is my personal problem with GW2: features done with quality lacking

 

 

Yes, it is important to me. I want an MMORPG with Rift's invasions, WAR's PQs and DAOC's meaningful RvR PvP. Please find me a game that has all 3 of those features as I do not want to pay 3 subscription fees.

I mean, since GW2 offers nothing new, I'm sure that there are multiple MMOs out there that have all 3 of those features.

Edit: also throw in NPCs that actually have routines. I love Skyrim and would love to have that feature in an MMO. I'm sure that other MMOs have NPCs like that, since GW2 offers nothing new.

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

You can't be serious... I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that GW2's dynamic events are not better than Rift's invasions and WAR's PQs? Have you actually played the game past level 4?

I think that we're done here. I'm all for constructive criticism but only if it has basis in reality, not delusion.

I should probably answer that one with just as cool a line as your 'OK,bye!' but see, I never cared for Dynamic Events and what happened in GW2 just didn't make me go "yeah, DE, the best things I never did do"

So, I can do fine with a game without them... yet a game with RvR/WvWvW *swoon* <- at least when it's good. And as I said before GW2's WvWvW is just hollow game mechanics, nothing more.

 

After reading all this between you guys, what is your kind of game then? GW2 offers just about everything I can think of except possibly open world pvp. I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I am curious because I would like to play it myself.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15958

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/08/12 7:06:50 PM#106
Originally posted by Unlight

If it does nothing new, explain why I loathed the sight of any other player I came across in every other game world, but had the exact opposite reaction in this game.  Enjoying the company of other players is a very new thing for me.  They're obviously doing something that no one else has tried yet.

How in the world is your obvious issue, anything more than you projecting some bad experience on everyone you see around you? Sorry this has nothing to do with GW2, no competition or not. The only thing responsible for that is your own thinking and reasoning. Loathed the sight of any other player.. really? I've seen some bad justifications before, but this is setting a new bar.

The only thing new here (in this example) is you stopped being judgemental.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/08/12 7:12:42 PM#107
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

You guys thinkg GW2 is something new, lol GW2 is a ripoff of Rift, Warhammer online and DAOC.

 

Rift - stole idea of events that occur at random on the world

Warhammer - Stole idea of public quest and made their quest out of it

DAOC - Their PVP is simply DAOC PVP brought to 2012.

Can you name one game where you can get all 3--Rift's invasions, Warhammer's PQs and DOAC PvP?

heartless, is that important for you? I mean that the game has all 3 features? I'm sure if you dig around there will be other games that have these features (sort of) but potentially the quality for them is exceptionally bad (in somebody's opinion)...

Which is my personal problem with GW2: features done with quality lacking

 

 

Yes, it is important to me. I want an MMORPG with Rift's invasions, WAR's PQs and DAOC's meaningful RvR PvP. Please find me a game that has all 3 of those features as I do not want to pay 3 subscription fees.

I mean, since GW2 offers nothing new, I'm sure that there are multiple MMOs out there that have all 3 of those features.

Edit: also throw in NPCs that actually have routines. I love Skyrim and would love to have that feature in an MMO. I'm sure that other MMOs have NPCs like that, since GW2 offers nothing new.

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

You can't be serious... I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that GW2's dynamic events are not better than Rift's invasions and WAR's PQs? Have you actually played the game past level 4?

I think that we're done here. I'm all for constructive criticism but only if it has basis in reality, not delusion.

I should probably answer that one with just as cool a line as your 'OK,bye!' but see, I never cared for Dynamic Events and what happened in GW2 just didn't make me go "yeah, DE, the best things I never did do"

So, I can do fine with a game without them... yet a game with RvR/WvWvW *swoon* <- at least when it's good. And as I said before GW2's WvWvW is just hollow game mechanics, nothing more.

 

After reading all this between you guys, what is your kind of game then? GW2 offers just about everything I can think of except possibly open world pvp. I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I am curious because I would like to play it myself.

I'm curious as well. He goes on and on about how other games offer better features than GW2 but he was yet to name one. 

Oh and Goreson, I'm sorry for hurting your feelings, mate.

  Goreson

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/11
Posts: 128

5/08/12 8:27:54 PM#108

Amjoco,

that isn't really the topic here...

but fine, let's walk that way and then jump back on topic:

I like the concept of a living, evolving story where you make choices... and they actually have results for you. So no SWTOR "I pick choice 3, I fight the guy, I fail, I start either the fight or the conversation again": you may not die but end up captured and need to follow that new storyline to get back your freedom.

I like the idea of PvP free zones, not to just cater to carebears but actually because there is a reason for people not fighting each other there.

I like the idea of being able to explore the world without the world being level set i.e."in this huge area the monsters are basically the same as in another zone but as we have suggested that zone for higher level chars (so that they can get their XP there as easily as a newstarter can in starting zones) we have simply given the monsters 50% more HP/Lvl. So there will of course be pockets where exploration may well be a risk (too dangerous) to it should make sense, not just huge areas "because we need a zone for guys lvl 15 - 25".

I like the idea of actually not just having fighting as the only option in "PvP" if there are objectives: pull the enemy's attention with a battle (yes, that is fighting) but then allow a sneak team to go in and do their job without ever killing a single enemy.

I like the idea of "PvP" actually having results, effecting the world, so if we lose the keep X that may weaken our defenses and allow the enemy to invade our heartland... or take control of our mine/trading route/farms/etc. Which in turn forces us to actually put some urgency into getting that keep back (or find an alternative).

I like the idea of having a real enemy, i.e. making it personal, not just a "statistic" thing - yes, DAoC: those 2 other realms hate my guts (for very good reasons) just as much as I hate theirs (for even better reasons of courase) - and they in turn hate each other too, obviously, so while one may sort of come to an arrangement for a short time, you just know it won't last... but in general it's just "see - attack by instinct"

I like the idea of doing quests that actually are worthy of an adventurer, not stuff you'd have your acne faced farmboy do. So no "I'm Goreson Picker of Tasty Apples - hear me roooar!"

I like the idea of either being a bit harsher about what a class can - a wizard needs to train his skills, so letting him also train a more complex weapon like a sword or a bow will either effect his magic skills or may even be forbidden" - or to break the class concept completely allowing your character to select his skills based on what background he selects: he may have been a huntsman before being taught magic - gain 2 lvl of archery/trapping, lose 2 lvl of magic spells, etc. Or allow him to pick up skills as he goes i.e. if he want to learn a sword (assuming there is a trainer available) he can start learning swordfighting but will inturn neglect his magic skills studies so advance there only at say 50% rate. 

I like the concept of events really being special, not just being there because "we need our hourly event". It's a simple matter of pride to be able to say "I was there when we fought the Worldeater... and all who weren't tough luck on your arse"

I'm sort of torn between the option of being able to just pick any race because none offers anything special, and races offering something unique... though the latter may well turn into a "I go with what gives me the biggest advantage rather than what I'd really like to be" feast.

I'd like for people to actually have to invest time into levelling their character up, not just a few days, 2 weeks till they are maxed but actually months. Yes, that means "grind" but the good type of "grind", completing 20 adventures before goi8ng from lvl20 to 21, and not just "kill 1,008,952 orks to get the XP you need" but rather fun adventures.

I can go on and on with that list, character creation aspects, crafting aspects, grapics, setting, etc.

The thing is that this is how I'd like my MMO to be...

have I found that game that offers all that? Nope

Can I make due that are still entertaining for me in some way? Of course.

So, to now get back to the topic: is GW2 such a game that I find entertaining? Not really. Too much just tasted  "meh" without doing anything for me. Mostly because it feels like I've seen these things done "better" before. (I should probably say feeling better to me)

But I should also say that I'd feel like asking AN why they couldn't be bothered to make it better as they have "other games" as a reference.

And I assume they'll say that they feel the way it is done is sufficient.

Which takes me finally full back to the topic: if a - IMO - halfbaked game like GW2 becomes the new milestone for future MMOs, we are on the same track as with WoW turning MMOs to casual gamer feasts and no longer something you actually want to invest your time in: IF you can satisfy the gamer community by putting out a huge $1.99 buffet of crappy food rather than serve than actually quality meals (yes, that may be a bit more expensive), well, congrats, the casual gamer just went even simpler...

 

  sonoggi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 1151

5/08/12 8:33:53 PM#109
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Unlight

If it does nothing new, explain why I loathed the sight of any other player I came across in every other game world, but had the exact opposite reaction in this game.  Enjoying the company of other players is a very new thing for me.  They're obviously doing something that no one else has tried yet.

How in the world is your obvious issue, anything more than you projecting some bad experience on everyone you see around you? Sorry this has nothing to do with GW2, no competition or not. The only thing responsible for that is your own thinking and reasoning. Loathed the sight of any other player.. really? I've seen some bad justifications before, but this is setting a new bar.

The only thing new here (in this example) is you stopped being judgemental.

i certainly didnt care for other players in WoW. dungeon finder was just a means of getting things done.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

5/08/12 8:34:34 PM#110

Wow.  You do know that you do more than pick apples in the first area right?   And that there are 80 levels in the game?  If you can't find anything "worthy of an adventurer" in that time, you're probably playing Tetris.

  Monorosso

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 15

5/08/12 9:28:45 PM#111
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by ArEf

From the recent announcement of The Elder Scrolls Online, we can see that most of the features are pretty much copy-pasted from GW2.

So, this has started me wondering. Is GW2, even before release, the touchstone for most other themepark MMOs to follow?

I picked "no" - though I should have added a "I seriously don't hope so!"

The thing is that GW2 is filled to the (pretty much) max with features - PvP, WvWvW, storyline, non-story quests, automated events, class flexiibility, okay character creation system...

but the problem is that GW2 is pretty much delivering on a level that is way below how the individual feature has already been presented.

Compare the WvWvW of GW2 with the RvR of DAoC: while in DAoC I had realm pride because my realm was going against their arch-nemesis (based on a 'realistic' background) all GW2 offers is a simple color game: "hello, I'm Green, for the next 2 weeks I'll be fighting you Blue and Red lot"... yeah, seems a bit dull...

worse, it doesn't even stand up to the classic Cold War system of Blue (US/West) against Red (Soviet/China) where the colors actually represented something and not just, well, a simple color code.

Or take the story in GW2 and compare it with SWTOR: If you only like 1 race in GW2 you will pretty much be playing the same story over and over again, despite picking different classes.

In SWTOR each class has their own story. Which makes much more sense as in both games races is really just very little but a visual representation. (Okay, fair enough if you say that in GW2 each race has their own starting ground... but how long are you going to stay there?)

And let's not forget presaentation: cinemtic cutscenes that allow individual decisions in SWTOR vs something that is really just a small step up from character presentation via static portrait and pure text output, no speech, maybe with some 8 bit music? ;-)

I will admit that I haven't tested all the stories in GW2 and that there is a chance that just as in SWTOR there may be good, interesting, involving stories just as there are sort of more "meh" ones (the Norn is defintely "meh"), but I don't really have high hopes...

not if I look at what GW2 is trying to sell as quests!

I mean sorry, but are you kidding me? Spending time to over and over chase kids around throwing snowballs at them because it makes them happy? Carry rabbit food around for ages trying to avoid those pesky bunnies that try to trip you? (Jeezzz, my Norn could easily squish a bunny by stepping on it!) Pull (and then fight) some larva in a vineyard... or alternatively wait for a 'shady customer' (yes, that's the name of the NPC) to slowly march intothe cloister, wait until he steals the keg and then chase him. Rinse and repeat that once every 10 min. What about taking care of another garden (in a lvl15-25 area) which involves sduch exciting tasks as throwing pest repelant onto of some larva? Or removing weed?

The list goes on and on featuring rather extremely boring tasks...

I'm so gratful that my toon chose a life of adventure and not, say, "keep-our-city clean"-er... oh wait, is that a hornet's nest I have to squash? Right there under that tag that I need to clean off?

In pretty much every other MMO you may have less questsa, but the quality of these is by far higher that what GW2 offers on average!

But hey, they have (automated) events... which you can do over and over and over and over and over by maybe just killing one of the enemies connected to that event and then going away. (Couldn't count the number of times I got a message in the BWE saying that I had shared in the completion of event X or Y despite having nothing really done aside from, well, just sort of passing by killed some low lev bad guy... *yawn* (In short: it that is the style of "event" we're supposed to look forward to, count me out!)

Rant, rant, rant...

the thing is that if GW2 gets away with offering such low quality AND future games will start doing the same, congrats to all those people who cheer on GW2 now while at the same time shouting damnation at any game that follows the WoW formula!

EDIT: Of course I should probably say that this is all based on the stage of the game as of the last BWE. Maybe GW2 will make a huge leap in improving all those low quality aspects and become the "bestest gamer, like, ever", but somehow I doubt it...

FINALLY someone does not sugarcoat this games incredibly boring facets and actually tells it like it is. Excellent post.

  Monorosso

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 15

5/08/12 9:35:34 PM#112
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by Classicstar

 


Originally posted by Lucioon


Originally posted by Goreson

.


I

 

S

Classicstar, if you call basing my opinion on playing the last BWE for pretty much the whole weekend, testing different races and classes, PvEing, PvPing and EBing, and comparing the result to over a decade of playing MMOs, well, yeah, I guess I don't really have a clue...

 

Lucioon,

you said one important thing: "after WoW".

Neither has GW2 re-invented the wheel (or the light bulb, the pen, the lollypop, the space shuttle and whatever else one may think GW2 has brought as "new" to the genre) nor will it be a good sign for future MMOs to come, if low quality features are something that game designers think they can get away with.

The latter is just what all the "WoW clone hate advocates" for any new game have been raging about, no matter how much that shoe actually fits!

And the prior, well, again: look at older (pre-WoW) games and you'll see how new certain ideas actually are... 

OK, bye!

LMAO at this response.. Pretty much conceiting the fact that the guy is right and you have nothing to counter his words and would rather just ignore everything he says. Even when the majority of it has merit. Rather pathetic really.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4152

5/08/12 9:45:35 PM#113
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by aaradun

 

Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games...

Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug*

But your game of choice is what? I kinda ask these questions in the forums because I'm curious as what people are playing that is better then the one they are flaming. I'm curious because I would like to play it also, it must be better.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

5/08/12 10:09:47 PM#114

I'd say certainly. There's a reason why all MMOs are offshoots of WOW, because the low budget ones just can't afford to be too innovative with their design.  Everyone's waiting on the big guys to do the R and D , then they tweak and model something after it.  

Small companies don't have the backing or the money to take chances like a AAA developer can.  

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/08/12 10:13:56 PM#115
Originally posted by Monorosso
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by Classicstar

 


Originally posted by Lucioon


Originally posted by Goreson

.


I

 

S

Classicstar, if you call basing my opinion on playing the last BWE for pretty much the whole weekend, testing different races and classes, PvEing, PvPing and EBing, and comparing the result to over a decade of playing MMOs, well, yeah, I guess I don't really have a clue...

 

Lucioon,

you said one important thing: "after WoW".

Neither has GW2 re-invented the wheel (or the light bulb, the pen, the lollypop, the space shuttle and whatever else one may think GW2 has brought as "new" to the genre) nor will it be a good sign for future MMOs to come, if low quality features are something that game designers think they can get away with.

The latter is just what all the "WoW clone hate advocates" for any new game have been raging about, no matter how much that shoe actually fits!

And the prior, well, again: look at older (pre-WoW) games and you'll see how new certain ideas actually are... 

OK, bye!

LMAO at this response.. Pretty much conceiting the fact that the guy is right and you have nothing to counter his words and would rather just ignore everything he says. Even when the majority of it has merit. Rather pathetic really.

He's right in a sense that his imaginary game is better than GW2. Well, my imaginary game is better than his and GW2 x 3. He's basically comparing GW2 to a game which does not exist.

I mean, if we compare GW2's story writing to SWTOR's, SWTOR's may be better. If we compare GW2's WvW to DOAC's RvR, DAOC's may be better. If we compare GW2's dynamic events to WAR's PQ's and Rifts invasions, WAR's PQ and Rift's invasions may be better... well, actually not they will not be better.

My point is that GW2 offers all of those things in one package and whether or not they are better or worse is a matter of personal opinion. Having played GW2 and having explored the extent of it's dynamic PvE content, I can safely say that for me, it is the best PvE game currently on the market.

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

5/08/12 10:36:49 PM#116
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Monorosso
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Goreson
Originally posted by Classicstar

 


Originally posted by Lucioon


Originally posted by Goreson

.


I

 

S

Classicstar, if you call basing my opinion on playing the last BWE for pretty much the whole weekend, testing different races and classes, PvEing, PvPing and EBing, and comparing the result to over a decade of playing MMOs, well, yeah, I guess I don't really have a clue...

 

Lucioon,

you said one important thing: "after WoW".

Neither has GW2 re-invented the wheel (or the light bulb, the pen, the lollypop, the space shuttle and whatever else one may think GW2 has brought as "new" to the genre) nor will it be a good sign for future MMOs to come, if low quality features are something that game designers think they can get away with.

The latter is just what all the "WoW clone hate advocates" for any new game have been raging about, no matter how much that shoe actually fits!

And the prior, well, again: look at older (pre-WoW) games and you'll see how new certain ideas actually are... 

OK, bye!

LMAO at this response.. Pretty much conceiting the fact that the guy is right and you have nothing to counter his words and would rather just ignore everything he says. Even when the majority of it has merit. Rather pathetic really.

He's right in a sense that his imaginary game is better than GW2. Well, my imaginary game is better than his and GW2 x 3. He's basically comparing GW2 to a game which does not exist.

I mean, if we compare GW2's story writing to SWTOR's, SWTOR's may be better. If we compare GW2's WvW to DOAC's RvR, DAOC's may be better. If we compare GW2's dynamic events to WAR's PQ's and Rifts invasions, WAR's PQ and Rift's invasions may be better... well, actually not they will not be better.

My point is that GW2 offers all of those things in one package and whether or not they are better or worse is a matter of personal opinion. Having played GW2 and having explored the extent of it's dynamic PvE content, I can safely say that for me, it is the best PvE game currently on the market.

I hate that reasoning "no one invented the wheel". Because no one really invents the wheel, no game, none.  Most games are just features and things found in other games. 

It's how that package is presented that makes it special.  It's like someone makes an amazing cake, and folk walk around its just flour, milk and sugar. Well yeah, but look at what they did with it.  

  StrixMaxima

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 890

5/08/12 11:43:56 PM#117

Well, i think the discussion just got a bit about how people are jaded about their games nowadays.

The next step is recalling individual moment from the past and weaving them into a grand utopia that will never come to pass again... unless it is the ONE GAME, the game that will MAKE IT ALL BETTER!!1

Erm... I digress.

My old self has played electronic games since their commercial release, late 70's. Back then, we kids would say 'Whoa, imagine this Pong thing... but with people from around the world!" And today, some 30 odd years later, here I am, using this flat typewriter and looking at this magic mirror, with people from around the world.

We routinely do things that were unfeasible just a few years back, and sadly, because of the way our world works, everything now loses its luster much much faster. We seriously need to be a little less jaded and try to immerse ourselves in the fantastic for some moments. MMOs are simply great for that, but because they already have a history that spans more than a single generation, and because people have tried quite a few of them, we tend to look at new games with VERY polarized opinions, pro or againt. And, also, with a healthy dose of what I described in the second paragraph: that nostalgia purple haze, which transports us back to a time where games were real games and men were men.

Ah, c'mon. There is no perfect game. Even amazing systems, such as UO post-Trammel PVP and DAOC RvR get old and need a new lease in life. They need to be reworked, expanded, and rethought. And, in my humble opinion, GW2 looks like it's trying to do just that. But that's not a 'ripoff', but a homage and a tribute, mixed with their own things.

Say what you will, GW's business model is very clever. The lack of a subscription reduces the urge of the 'open bar syndrome': "oh, gawd, I paid 40 bucks to enter this joint, but they have free booze. I must drink until I forget my species or else I'll be losing out!". Without subs, there is no need to rush through the content. With the level and gear adaptation system, everyone gets a taste of endgame very early, reducing the mad urge to rush through content like there's no tomorrow.

Hardcores will be hardcores, and people who cannot live in front of a game can actually have fun, without that much pressure. You can set the learning curve to your taste, not your wallet's or your schadule's (necessarily. Crazy people will still be crazy).

Mind you, I couldn't even play the game yet, but I think Arena has done some admirable things just laying out the game the way it is right now. It's not the second coming of any prophet, and it shouldn't be seen as such. But, like its predecessor, I'm sure it'll be a successful title that will influence the industry in the long run. Just how much, time will tell. The farther we steer clear from WoW's raiding gating and X-Box-like 'achievements', the better.

  Ashen_X

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/10
Posts: 365

5/09/12 12:25:17 AM#118
Originally posted by fiontar

The game developers smart enough and talented enough to pick up the GW2 blueprint and make an MMO based around it have had enough information to appreciate the value of doing so for about two years now. Arenanet were very open about some of the major design features for the game and explained why they went with each of them.

I knew the implications of the design in 2010 and I'm not an MMO designer. The better games in development for a 2014+ time window probably already have looked to GW2 for inspiration. Will any of them do a better job of borrowing features and making a great game out of it than all the failed WoW-clones? I don't know, but the design elements are superior, so the trick is in the implementation.

No flaming or anything but how can this be the case without proof that GW2 is financially successful ?

Basing 2014 release date games on one that has not yet been released and is as of yet unproven on the market could pay off...but is extremely risky.

"Hey my neighbor is working on starting his own business. I think I will do the same and copy his business model...without seeing if it even works."

When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1306

5/09/12 12:39:52 AM#119
Originally posted by ArEf

From the recent announcement of The Elder Scrolls Online, we can see that most of the features are pretty much copy-pasted from GW2.

So, this has started me wondering. Is GW2, even before release, the touchstone for most other themepark MMOs to follow?

Deja vu.

I swear I saw threads on this same exact topic posted about TOR before that launched.

TOR was going to change the way MMO's were made. TOR was going to be a genre changer. TOR was going to be the standard by which all future MMOs would be judged. TOR was going to destroy WoW once and for all... TOR... TOR... TOR...

TOR released, failed to achieve any of those (and other) declarations and predictions made of it and has all but fallen to the back burner for many people.

So now it's GW2's turn to be hyped up to unrealistic levels, I guess.

Now, I know, I know... You don't have to tell me... "This is ArenaNet and GW2". It'll somehow be different. Where all previous MMOs failed to live up to the hype and zealotry showered upon them, somehow GW2 will be different. It will be the one that truly does...

Only it won't.

That honor will of course go to the next big MMO to come down the pike.

Only it won't for that one either.

Maybe the one after that?

Nope...

You get the idea.

Know why? Because no game developer this side of dreamland is capable of creating the game or meeting the standards many people hold them to in their over-active, frenzied imaginations.

I think it's much more reasonable to get your head out of the clouds, keep your feet on the ground and push for something a bit more attainable and realistic like, say, making a game that's fun, has interesting gameplay, engaging content and will keep you entertained for a few months or, perhaps, even a few years. I think that's a much safer and more realistic expectation to hold these games to.

Enough with this "This MMO will be the cornerstone!!!" nonsense.

 

  Thralia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 234

5/09/12 12:50:07 AM#120

anyone care to explain what is so REVOLUTIONARY about this game? i played it  for 4 hours and i didnt make "click " for me like it did back then when i played DAoC,lineage 2 and WoW.

is it just  ppl hyping it ?

someone explain pls.

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