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5/08/12 5:05:58 PM#101
Originally posted by heartless Well, see I would agree with that IF GW2 actually offered these features on that same level as the "origin" games... Therefore, me, I rather pay a sub for a game that has the feature(s) I'm interested in good quality... but again, that's just me... because if I just want features for free -> F2P games? *shrug* |
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5/08/12 5:13:00 PM#102
Originally posted by Goreson Huh? Do you honestly believe that PQ or a rift is higher quality than the Dynamic Events. I have played all three games. They are not higher quality. They just aren't.
The only one of those three I can say anyone honestly saying was higher quality was DAOC RvR. I mean I don't think so. But its at least plausiable. |
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heartless
 Novice Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
5/08/12 5:13:47 PM#103
Originally posted by Goreson You can't be serious... I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that GW2's dynamic events are not better than Rift's invasions and WAR's PQs? Have you actually played the game past level 4? I think that we're done here. I'm all for constructive criticism but only if it has basis in reality, not delusion.
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5/08/12 5:38:17 PM#104
Originally posted by heartless I should probably answer that one with just as cool a line as your 'OK,bye!' but see, I never cared for Dynamic Events and what happened in GW2 just didn't make me go "yeah, DE, the best things I never did do" So, I can do fine with a game without them... yet a game with RvR/WvWvW *swoon* <- at least when it's good. And as I said before GW2's WvWvW is just hollow game mechanics, nothing more.
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5/08/12 5:56:48 PM#105
Originally posted by Goreson After reading all this between you guys, what is your kind of game then? GW2 offers just about everything I can think of except possibly open world pvp. I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I am curious because I would like to play it myself. Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not. |
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5/08/12 6:06:50 PM#106
Originally posted by Unlight How in the world is your obvious issue, anything more than you projecting some bad experience on everyone you see around you? Sorry this has nothing to do with GW2, no competition or not. The only thing responsible for that is your own thinking and reasoning. Loathed the sight of any other player.. really? I've seen some bad justifications before, but this is setting a new bar. The only thing new here (in this example) is you stopped being judgemental. For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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heartless
Novice Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
5/08/12 6:12:42 PM#107
Originally posted by Amjoco I'm curious as well. He goes on and on about how other games offer better features than GW2 but he was yet to name one. Oh and Goreson, I'm sorry for hurting your feelings, mate.
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5/08/12 7:27:54 PM#108
Amjoco, that isn't really the topic here... but fine, let's walk that way and then jump back on topic: I like the concept of a living, evolving story where you make choices... and they actually have results for you. So no SWTOR "I pick choice 3, I fight the guy, I fail, I start either the fight or the conversation again": you may not die but end up captured and need to follow that new storyline to get back your freedom. I like the idea of PvP free zones, not to just cater to carebears but actually because there is a reason for people not fighting each other there. I like the idea of being able to explore the world without the world being level set i.e."in this huge area the monsters are basically the same as in another zone but as we have suggested that zone for higher level chars (so that they can get their XP there as easily as a newstarter can in starting zones) we have simply given the monsters 50% more HP/Lvl. So there will of course be pockets where exploration may well be a risk (too dangerous) to it should make sense, not just huge areas "because we need a zone for guys lvl 15 - 25". I like the idea of actually not just having fighting as the only option in "PvP" if there are objectives: pull the enemy's attention with a battle (yes, that is fighting) but then allow a sneak team to go in and do their job without ever killing a single enemy. I like the idea of "PvP" actually having results, effecting the world, so if we lose the keep X that may weaken our defenses and allow the enemy to invade our heartland... or take control of our mine/trading route/farms/etc. Which in turn forces us to actually put some urgency into getting that keep back (or find an alternative). I like the idea of having a real enemy, i.e. making it personal, not just a "statistic" thing - yes, DAoC: those 2 other realms hate my guts (for very good reasons) just as much as I hate theirs (for even better reasons of courase) - and they in turn hate each other too, obviously, so while one may sort of come to an arrangement for a short time, you just know it won't last... but in general it's just "see - attack by instinct" I like the idea of doing quests that actually are worthy of an adventurer, not stuff you'd have your acne faced farmboy do. So no "I'm Goreson Picker of Tasty Apples - hear me roooar!" I like the idea of either being a bit harsher about what a class can - a wizard needs to train his skills, so letting him also train a more complex weapon like a sword or a bow will either effect his magic skills or may even be forbidden" - or to break the class concept completely allowing your character to select his skills based on what background he selects: he may have been a huntsman before being taught magic - gain 2 lvl of archery/trapping, lose 2 lvl of magic spells, etc. Or allow him to pick up skills as he goes i.e. if he want to learn a sword (assuming there is a trainer available) he can start learning swordfighting but will inturn neglect his magic skills studies so advance there only at say 50% rate. I like the concept of events really being special, not just being there because "we need our hourly event". It's a simple matter of pride to be able to say "I was there when we fought the Worldeater... and all who weren't tough luck on your arse" I'm sort of torn between the option of being able to just pick any race because none offers anything special, and races offering something unique... though the latter may well turn into a "I go with what gives me the biggest advantage rather than what I'd really like to be" feast. I'd like for people to actually have to invest time into levelling their character up, not just a few days, 2 weeks till they are maxed but actually months. Yes, that means "grind" but the good type of "grind", completing 20 adventures before goi8ng from lvl20 to 21, and not just "kill 1,008,952 orks to get the XP you need" but rather fun adventures. I can go on and on with that list, character creation aspects, crafting aspects, grapics, setting, etc. The thing is that this is how I'd like my MMO to be... have I found that game that offers all that? Nope Can I make due that are still entertaining for me in some way? Of course. So, to now get back to the topic: is GW2 such a game that I find entertaining? Not really. Too much just tasted "meh" without doing anything for me. Mostly because it feels like I've seen these things done "better" before. (I should probably say feeling better to me) But I should also say that I'd feel like asking AN why they couldn't be bothered to make it better as they have "other games" as a reference. And I assume they'll say that they feel the way it is done is sufficient. Which takes me finally full back to the topic: if a - IMO - halfbaked game like GW2 becomes the new milestone for future MMOs, we are on the same track as with WoW turning MMOs to casual gamer feasts and no longer something you actually want to invest your time in: IF you can satisfy the gamer community by putting out a huge $1.99 buffet of crappy food rather than serve than actually quality meals (yes, that may be a bit more expensive), well, congrats, the casual gamer just went even simpler...
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5/08/12 7:33:53 PM#109
Originally posted by Distopia i certainly didnt care for other players in WoW. dungeon finder was just a means of getting things done. |
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5/08/12 7:34:34 PM#110
Wow. You do know that you do more than pick apples in the first area right? And that there are 80 levels in the game? If you can't find anything "worthy of an adventurer" in that time, you're probably playing Tetris. no GW2 won't kill WoW, but it's time to move on and quit worrying about those people still playing it. - eyelolled |
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5/08/12 8:28:45 PM#111
Originally posted by Goreson FINALLY someone does not sugarcoat this games incredibly boring facets and actually tells it like it is. Excellent post. |
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5/08/12 8:35:34 PM#112
Originally posted by heartless LMAO at this response.. Pretty much conceiting the fact that the guy is right and you have nothing to counter his words and would rather just ignore everything he says. Even when the majority of it has merit. Rather pathetic really. |
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5/08/12 8:45:35 PM#113
Originally posted by Goreson But your game of choice is what? I kinda ask these questions in the forums because I'm curious as what people are playing that is better then the one they are flaming. I'm curious because I would like to play it also, it must be better. Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not. |
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5/08/12 9:09:47 PM#114
I'd say certainly. There's a reason why all MMOs are offshoots of WOW, because the low budget ones just can't afford to be too innovative with their design. Everyone's waiting on the big guys to do the R and D , then they tweak and model something after it. Small companies don't have the backing or the money to take chances like a AAA developer can. |
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heartless
Novice Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
5/08/12 9:13:56 PM#115
Originally posted by Monorosso He's right in a sense that his imaginary game is better than GW2. Well, my imaginary game is better than his and GW2 x 3. He's basically comparing GW2 to a game which does not exist. I mean, if we compare GW2's story writing to SWTOR's, SWTOR's may be better. If we compare GW2's WvW to DOAC's RvR, DAOC's may be better. If we compare GW2's dynamic events to WAR's PQ's and Rifts invasions, WAR's PQ and Rift's invasions may be better... well, actually not they will not be better. My point is that GW2 offers all of those things in one package and whether or not they are better or worse is a matter of personal opinion. Having played GW2 and having explored the extent of it's dynamic PvE content, I can safely say that for me, it is the best PvE game currently on the market.
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5/08/12 9:36:49 PM#116
Originally posted by heartless I hate that reasoning "no one invented the wheel". Because no one really invents the wheel, no game, none. Most games are just features and things found in other games. It's how that package is presented that makes it special. It's like someone makes an amazing cake, and folk walk around its just flour, milk and sugar. Well yeah, but look at what they did with it. |
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5/08/12 10:43:56 PM#117
Well, i think the discussion just got a bit about how people are jaded about their games nowadays. The next step is recalling individual moment from the past and weaving them into a grand utopia that will never come to pass again... unless it is the ONE GAME, the game that will MAKE IT ALL BETTER!!1 Erm... I digress. My old self has played electronic games since their commercial release, late 70's. Back then, we kids would say 'Whoa, imagine this Pong thing... but with people from around the world!" And today, some 30 odd years later, here I am, using this flat typewriter and looking at this magic mirror, with people from around the world. We routinely do things that were unfeasible just a few years back, and sadly, because of the way our world works, everything now loses its luster much much faster. We seriously need to be a little less jaded and try to immerse ourselves in the fantastic for some moments. MMOs are simply great for that, but because they already have a history that spans more than a single generation, and because people have tried quite a few of them, we tend to look at new games with VERY polarized opinions, pro or againt. And, also, with a healthy dose of what I described in the second paragraph: that nostalgia purple haze, which transports us back to a time where games were real games and men were men. Ah, c'mon. There is no perfect game. Even amazing systems, such as UO post-Trammel PVP and DAOC RvR get old and need a new lease in life. They need to be reworked, expanded, and rethought. And, in my humble opinion, GW2 looks like it's trying to do just that. But that's not a 'ripoff', but a homage and a tribute, mixed with their own things. Say what you will, GW's business model is very clever. The lack of a subscription reduces the urge of the 'open bar syndrome': "oh, gawd, I paid 40 bucks to enter this joint, but they have free booze. I must drink until I forget my species or else I'll be losing out!". Without subs, there is no need to rush through the content. With the level and gear adaptation system, everyone gets a taste of endgame very early, reducing the mad urge to rush through content like there's no tomorrow. Hardcores will be hardcores, and people who cannot live in front of a game can actually have fun, without that much pressure. You can set the learning curve to your taste, not your wallet's or your schadule's (necessarily. Crazy people will still be crazy). Mind you, I couldn't even play the game yet, but I think Arena has done some admirable things just laying out the game the way it is right now. It's not the second coming of any prophet, and it shouldn't be seen as such. But, like its predecessor, I'm sure it'll be a successful title that will influence the industry in the long run. Just how much, time will tell. The farther we steer clear from WoW's raiding gating and X-Box-like 'achievements', the better. |
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5/08/12 11:25:17 PM#118
Originally posted by fiontar No flaming or anything but how can this be the case without proof that GW2 is financially successful ? Basing 2014 release date games on one that has not yet been released and is as of yet unproven on the market could pay off...but is extremely risky. "Hey my neighbor is working on starting his own business. I think I will do the same and copy his business model...without seeing if it even works." When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done. |
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5/08/12 11:39:52 PM#119
Originally posted by ArEf Deja vu. I swear I saw threads on this same exact topic posted about TOR before that launched. TOR was going to change the way MMO's were made. TOR was going to be a genre changer. TOR was going to be the standard by which all future MMOs would be judged. TOR was going to destroy WoW once and for all... TOR... TOR... TOR... TOR released, failed to achieve any of those (and other) declarations and predictions made of it and has all but fallen to the back burner for many people. So now it's GW2's turn to be hyped up to unrealistic levels, I guess. Now, I know, I know... You don't have to tell me... "This is ArenaNet and GW2". It'll somehow be different. Where all previous MMOs failed to live up to the hype and zealotry showered upon them, somehow GW2 will be different. It will be the one that truly does... Only it won't. That honor will of course go to the next big MMO to come down the pike. Only it won't for that one either. Maybe the one after that? Nope... You get the idea. Know why? Because no game developer this side of dreamland is capable of creating the game or meeting the standards many people hold them to in their over-active, frenzied imaginations. I think it's much more reasonable to get your head out of the clouds, keep your feet on the ground and push for something a bit more attainable and realistic like, say, making a game that's fun, has interesting gameplay, engaging content and will keep you entertained for a few months or, perhaps, even a few years. I think that's a much safer and more realistic expectation to hold these games to. Enough with this "This MMO will be the cornerstone!!!" nonsense.
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5/08/12 11:50:07 PM#120
anyone care to explain what is so REVOLUTIONARY about this game? i played it for 4 hours and i didnt make "click " for me like it did back then when i played DAoC,lineage 2 and WoW. is it just ppl hyping it ? someone explain pls. |
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