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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ElderScrolls RPG combat not possible in a MMO

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214 posts found
  greyed-out

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/12
Posts: 99

5/07/12 12:51:37 PM#121
Originally posted by Omali

Fine then, I'll set up my own Elder Scrolls game with blackjack and hookers. Actually, forget the game and the blackjack. 

LOL. Winner!

I've found the first leaked screen shot of your new Elder Scrolls MMO; looks awsome dude! Really nice rendering of the Orc female.

 

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4794

5/07/12 12:52:04 PM#122
Originally posted by DAS1337

 

This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

but they DO work.

are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

5/07/12 12:52:53 PM#123

Its really sad when Darkfail is used as a positive example

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  dadante666

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 399

you stop laughing when hear the same joke ,but always cry for the same thing...

5/07/12 12:53:55 PM#124
Originally posted by caremuchless

 I'll make this short.

 

 I love the elder scroll series, but they are single player RPG's.

 Do you really think it's possible to copy that type of combat into ESO and end up with something better than what is currently in Darkfall?

 

 Personally, I believe that if the devs were copying Elder scrolls combat into a futuristic fullbody sim, it could work. 

 But that tech isnt widely available in the market yet and what we have to work with (keyboard and mouse) cant do the combat justice without making it look like CounterStrike knife fighting (which is what I think DFO combat looks like)

 

So while Iam not defending the choices the devs made,

 I find it hard to believe what most of you want in combat is possible.

 

 

mmo is not define by the combat  other than the publicity and  the masive person in 1 area or open world ,combat can be very unique in mmo so basically all game fit in mmo  as for theyr combat is up to the creator .

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

5/07/12 12:54:49 PM#125
Originally posted by TGSOL

I think if you asked every single TES fan, you'd find that the vast majority of people would rather have a small scale (2-8 player) multiplayer version of something like Skyrim than a generic WoW-esque MMO.

 

I know I'd choose Skyrim with a few friends over this MMO any day.

Every person I know agrees with you. Co-op TES much more appealing than a MMO because you can never have the TES feel in a MMO no matter what they try to do.

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2533

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

5/07/12 12:55:50 PM#126
Originally posted by Thorbrand
Originally posted by TGSOL

I think if you asked every single TES fan, you'd find that the vast majority of people would rather have a small scale (2-8 player) multiplayer version of something like Skyrim than a generic WoW-esque MMO.

 

I know I'd choose Skyrim with a few friends over this MMO any day.

Every person I know agrees with you. Co-op TES much more appealing than a MMO because you can never have the TES feel in a MMO no matter what they try to do.

Agreed.

I'll pass on Elder WoW, thanks.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

5/07/12 12:56:39 PM#127
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DAS1337

 

This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

but they DO work.

are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

 

In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

 

"Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

 

I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

 

Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1650

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

5/07/12 12:58:41 PM#128

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

5/07/12 1:02:44 PM#129
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

I'm not worried about it either.  I want housing.  That's certainly one feature they could have among the hundreds that they won't have.  FFA full loot, stealing and theft, thousands of items you can pick up and drop, classless, skill based systems I'm looking at you.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4794

5/07/12 1:05:21 PM#130
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DAS1337

 

This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

but they DO work.

are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

 

In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

 

"Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

 

I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

 

Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

everything you have just said in detail darkfall does and they do it extreemly well.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry for the rage not all of them but most of them and it will work not mostly becuase its currently working perfectly.

Nobody has an issue with darkfall combat engine.

 

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

5/07/12 1:06:29 PM#131
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DAS1337

 

This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

but they DO work.

are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

 

In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

 

"Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

 

I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

 

Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

everything you have just said in detail darkfall does and they do it extreemly well.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh man, you certainly swayed my thinking with that spellbinding argument...

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4794

5/07/12 1:08:48 PM#132
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4794

5/07/12 1:11:36 PM#133
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DAS1337

 

This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

but they DO work.

are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

 

In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

 

"Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

 

I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

 

Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

everything you have just said in detail darkfall does and they do it extreemly well.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh man, you certainly swayed my thinking with that spellbinding argument...

nobody disputes Darkfalls on its combat engine, the people who do not like the game even say its one of the best.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1650

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

5/07/12 1:14:37 PM#134
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

 

I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4794

5/07/12 1:21:00 PM#135
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

 

I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

as it turns out TES is either my favorite or second favorite series ever. The first night I played Darkfall my instant reaction was 'this is what morrowind online could have been'. The two games are actually very much alike in ways that are a bit abstract to explain. never the less, specifically the experience you have with the FPS style combat is almost exactly the same experience as you have with Skyrim, only Darkfall as a lot more options.

Never mind that darkfall ALSO has no instances, cities that can be seiged, boats that can be built and saled. but TES developers are saying that they cant:

when night = change stats of player.

 

 

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

5/07/12 1:23:45 PM#136
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

 

I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

No one is saying make it like DFO, the point is that it is possible this has been proven.

Combat similar to TES - DarkFall, Mortal Online

Housing - Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxy did player housing well, Games Like DFO came up with a different spin on player housing that still works.

Werewolves - Shifters are in GW2 and a few other MMO's though not many.

Much of what ticks people off is that Zenimax was saying that they didn't do this because of technical limitations. The problem with that excuse is we've seen all these different mechanics done in many different MMO's. Not all together but they have been done.

How can what we've seen already done in various games not be possible to do? Much of it has been done by indie developers with little funding and experience.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15282

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/07/12 1:37:05 PM#137
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
 

No one is saying make it like DFO, the point is that it is possible this has been proven.

Combat similar to TES - DarkFall, Mortal Online

Housing - Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxy did player housing well, Games Like DFO came up with a different spin on player housing that still works.

Werewolves - Shifters are in GW2 and a few other MMO's though not many.

Much of what ticks people off is that Zenimax was saying that they didn't do this because of technical limitations. The problem with that excuse is we've seen all these different mechanics done in many different MMO's. Not all together but they have been done.

How can what we've seen already done in various games not be possible to do? Much of it has been done by indie developers with little funding and experience.

People just don't seem to get that no one has really denied they "work". It's the point that in many cases (most really) they haven't exactly been without some serious technical flaws, that would take precious conceptual time through reiteration to make them work great and avoid these known problems. Not to mention time down the road where new issues may emerge.

Everyone can just look around and see examples of these things "working" in an MMO, but everyone can also look around and see where lot's could be done to improve these features. Which it really boils down to time given and budget allocation. We can all make guesses about that but we don't know any facts there, so that's all it is guessing.

Technical limitation could also be in reference to the game engine itself. No one seems to consider that at all, instead all focus seems to be on sucky devs, laziness, or whatever shines a bad light on the dev team.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 860

5/07/12 1:37:41 PM#138
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

 

I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4794

5/07/12 1:41:31 PM#139
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Alders

Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

 

I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

exactly.

added more quest content, make pvp a little bit more friendly toward those who are not sociopaths, make gathering resource not so much an afk affair and you pretty much have exactly what many would expect from TES online but in addition has clan seigable assets.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15282

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/07/12 2:03:59 PM#140
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

Yellow and orange don't really add up hehe, isn't that a result of bad feature implementation? THE devs are responsible for what their players are allowed to do.

The rest I can agree with, sure, that might make for a good game, might is key though. As one major impact on sandboxes as a whole is community, and it would mostly boil down to that to make for a good sandbox game. I've wanted that back for years, a good sandbox community is hard to come by in this day and age. I'm usually looked at as foolish to think it's possible anymore.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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