I'm skeptical not because of the Hero Enginge, I'm actually relieved to see that they aren't going to make their own. Oblivion and Skyrim are awesome but their engines would not work well for an MMO. 

I'm worried about TESO because the gameplay is what makes TES a great series and they're gutting all of that for a MMO experience. TESO will be different from the "WoW clones" but I doubt it will feel like a TES game.

---

Originally posted by Vesavius

---

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

---

 
Lets not be juvenile about it.... 'hater this, 'hater' that... it is all so childish.
I am 'hating' (ie being critical and expressing my thoughts) on it due to the stated feature list. Information the devs have released for us to see and talk about.
It is extremely dissapointing for a modern game and if it ends up being launched anywhere near Archeage it will look even worse.
I also agree with the guys stating that it actually seem a TES game at all, but just a generuc clone with TES branding.
A lot of people just expected better. If they are reacting strongly it is because they have recently been bitten by another unambitious generic clone sold on a popular branding, so the timing makes it doubly bad for Zenimax.

---

Alot of TES fans who loved Daggerfall or Morrowind and now Skyrim are dissapointed.

I think specially with new Skyrim with millions of new fans that experience a solo game for first time they never SAW before in a free roaming open world looking gorgeous and total freedom, they espected same kind of game only then suited in mmo world.

Im convinced that it has nothing to do with becouse another mmo failed, majority of Elder Scrolls fans did not even like bioware games(prolly the longterm fans at least) they loved Elder Scroll games and wanted the MMO to be like that not another themepark with colorfull and hold hand themepark, thats what ELDER SCROLLS FANS HATE.

If it realy is themepark and not realy a Elder Scroll in tradition of solo games then ZENIMAX have betrayed there own fan base nomatter what you all discus this is fact.

The MMO should have been in the Tradition of Daggerfall-Morrowind-Skyrim then it would have being a billion dollar HIT!!!

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Ekaros

Nah, the real reason is once again taking a big name and making money grab which isn't atleast partialy faitfull to that name.  Just the typical industry way of doing things...

Nah, people are labeling it as a money grab becuase the game isn't being targeted at them.  Anytime a game IP doesn't meet the demanding expectation of the purists, it's a money grab.  That comes up almost every single time this happens.

They're taking something that had a tried-and-tested formula and a fan-base of millions and turning it into a generic cookie-cutter MMO which will appeal to widest range of boring, generic, grind-loving, MMO consumers who are spooked by even the slightest innovation or change to that generic cookie-cutter formula.

Sorry but it is the very definition of a money grab. Instead of appealing to the fans of the game, they're trying to take a slice of the MMO market whilst riding on the The Elder Scrolls name and the popularity of Skyrim and Oblivion.

All they're doing in the long-run is devaluing The Elder Scrolls IP. The option to create an MMO has been excercised. Its not something they can do again. People aren't going to forget the generic crap Zenimax Online Studios produced if they actually decide to make a Elder Scrolls MMO faithful to the series.

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Ekaros

Nah, the real reason is once again taking a big name and making money grab which isn't atleast partialy faitfull to that name.  Just the typical industry way of doing things...

Nah, people are labeling it as a money grab becuase the game isn't being targeted at them.  Anytime a game IP doesn't meet the demanding expectation of the purists, it's a money grab.  That comes up almost every single time this happens.

They're taking something that had a tried-and-tested formula and a fan-base of millions and turning it into a generic cookie-cutter MMO which will appeal to widest range of boring, generic, grind-loving, MMO consumers who are spooked by even the slightest innovation or change to that generic cookie-cutter formula.

Sorry but it is the very definition of a money grab. Instead of appealing to the fans of the game, they're trying to take a slice of the MMO market whilst riding on the The Elder Scrolls name and the popularity of Skyrim and Oblivion.

All they're doing in the long-run is devaluing The Elder Scrolls IP. The option to create an MMO has been excercised. Its not something they can do again. People aren't going to forget the generic crap Zenimax Online Studios produced if they actually decide to make a Elder Scrolls MMO faithful to the series.

The thing is, if they had called it lets say 'barneys adventures' non of us TES fans would be looking at it and none of us would be posting all our disapointments and non of the articles written about it would be damaging AND they would have to worry about lies like 'player housing is not possible like players want'.

They really f8cked up by doing this AND using the TES IP to do it.

---

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

---

The reason I'm greatly disappointed with Elder Scrolls online is quite frankly that it has none of the parts of Elder Scrolls that actually got me hooked on the series to begin with. With the gameplay mechanics radically changing to match the MMO norm, the look of the game following the same path, the view-perspective in the game changing and the sudden focus on three faction PVP as opposed to freely roaming and exploring; all that really remains to make it "Elder Scrolls" would be the lore of the world and that's roughly just an amalgam of real-world history, distorted and with flowery presentation and classic fantasy lore mashed together, as with any other MMO.

That kind of sums up my feelings quite well: "Oh great, an Elder Scrolls MMO that's going to be like all the others we've played and gotten tired of."

Every time I pick up a new MMO it lasts shorter and shorter. It's no longer a matter of years, but of months- three months, two months- soon it'll be one month and then we're down to merely weeks, just because developers and publishers seem to be so afraid to innovate on a deeper level.

At its core an MMO is a game that you play together with a lot of people, cooperatively or competitively, or alternatively both; and that's practically all there is to it. If they had applied that to existing Elder Scrolls formula they would have had something truly unique on their hands. But, instead, they hire on a guy from a team that worked on entirely different games and have him put the entire design that made Elder Scrolls what it was through the shredder, replace it with the design documents for Dark Ages and change the header to Elder Scrolls.

It might still end up good, but it takes more than Storm Atronachs and Bosmer to make an Elder Scrolls game.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
As long as it captures the essence of tes, freely roaming a vast living world, then to me its a tes game. I'm disappointed it has classes, but then they started this game before skyrim, and Morrowind & oblivion did have classes, all be it that players could make their own custom template at the start. As for 3 faction pvp, why not, tes has no pvp at all, I don't get the "this should be ffa pvp like darkfall" people, tes has no pvp, I'm just glad they didn't go with grind mini games for tokens.

Who would've thought that a single-player game would have no PvP?

I think the reason people want FFA PvP in The Elder Scrolls Online is because it's a part of player freedom.

In Daggerfall, you could kill just about anyone you liked. The same applied in Morrowind and Oblivion.

If you wanted to pick the lock on someone's house at 1 am in the morning, ransack their entire house and sneak away without a trace, you could do that too.

That was player freedom.

Now we are moving into a multiplayer game, and maintaining that sense of player freedom is something that most The Elder Scrolls fans really want. If that means killing someone for the nice gear they have, then so be it - but be prepared for consequences, just like in single player TES games.

Breaking into someone's house and stealing their stuff - player choice. Even trying to rob the town bank, either through stealth or brute force - player choice. Just don't get caught or you'll go to virtual jail.

But 3-faction PvP with PvP only zones, and non-PvP areas (which from what I've read is most of the game), just seems forced and meaningless ("I'm fighting with you because you're a different faction to me, and you're who I'm supposed to fight."). There's not even a clear cut dichotomy of good vs evil ("We're fighting because I respect life, freedom and property whilst you kill, enslave and rob everyone you can."). Even if they come up with some brilliant story as to why these three factions are fighting, its still going to feel forced. I thought part of playing an MMORPG was that the players write history with their actions (I guess not with modern RPGs).

Open, free-free-all PvP creates player choice. You choose who you kill, or don't kill, for any number of reasons. You form alliances based on necessity or common interest, and kill others out of greed, the desire to rule or in self-defence. In that regard, I believe open, free-for-all PvP is always the best option in any MMO.

(NB: When I say open-FFA PvP, I don't mean everyone should go around killing everyone or that there shouldn't be consequences for randomly killing people. It just means that you can kill anyone at any time - you're not restricted to killing people only in designated PvP areas or restricted to killing on certain races or political factions.)

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by ShakyMo
As long as it captures the essence of tes, freely roaming a vast living world, then to me its a tes game. I'm disappointed it has classes, but then they started this game before skyrim, and Morrowind & oblivion did have classes, all be it that players could make their own custom template at the start. As for 3 faction pvp, why not, tes has no pvp at all, I don't get the "this should be ffa pvp like darkfall" people, tes has no pvp, I'm just glad they didn't go with grind mini games for tokens.

Who would've thought that a single-player game would have no PvP?

yup. Someone actually had an article published with these words (I paraphrased)

'the single player game had no PvP players dont want that in an MMO version of the game.'

WTF?

I care less about the game using hero engine. I care more about ESO abandoning every aspect I enjoyed about the elder scrolls games.

That'd be like remaking the star wars movies in the jurassic time-period keeping the lightsabers which would now be called lazer swords.

They seemed to have focused on the over-arching story of the ES series instead of the gameplay.

Okay OP lets ignore the fact that is obviously not the main or only reason people dislike the game already.  You should be concerned with the hero engine.  As I stated in another post, the SWTOR guys were claiming "we can handle 100 v 100" when speaking about ilum PvP.  Have you, or anyone you known been in a 100 v 100 fight on ilum that was even somewhat playable?  No?  Because it has never happened.  Most peoples computers freeze and crash at 30 v 30.  

Now someone will probably come in saying it has improved and how bioware had such an early build of the engine, but frankly, Zenimax didn't start building the game that much longer after Bioware started.  I doubt they have such a vasty improved engine.  

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

It doesn't help that the devs for TES Online stated that they wanted to copy WoW.  That is what SWTOR did and failed miserably.  Now TES Online is announced with the same engine as SWTOR and also the same claim of wanting to copy WoW.  That is why people are hating. 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Ekaros

Nah, the real reason is once again taking a big name and making money grab which isn't atleast partialy faitfull to that name.  Just the typical industry way of doing things...

Nah, people are labeling it as a money grab becuase the game isn't being targeted at them.  Anytime a game IP doesn't meet the demanding expectation of the purists, it's a money grab.  That comes up almost every single time this happens.

They're taking something that had a tried-and-tested formula and a fan-base of millions and turning it into a generic cookie-cutter MMO which will appeal to widest range of boring, generic, grind-loving, MMO consumers who are spooked by even the slightest innovation or change to that generic cookie-cutter formula.

Sorry but it is the very definition of a money grab. Instead of appealing to the fans of the game, they're trying to take a slice of the MMO market whilst riding on the The Elder Scrolls name and the popularity of Skyrim and Oblivion.

All they're doing in the long-run is devaluing The Elder Scrolls IP. The option to create an MMO has been excercised. Its not something they can do again. People aren't going to forget the generic crap Zenimax Online Studios produced if they actually decide to make a Elder Scrolls MMO faithful to the series.

The thing is, if they had called it lets say 'barneys adventures' non of us TES fans would be looking at it and none of us would be posting all our disapointments and non of the articles written about it would be damaging AND they would have to worry about lies like 'player housing is not possible like players want'.

They really f8cked up by doing this AND using the TES IP to do it.

And the problem is, had it been barneys adventure, then us TES fans could still hold out hope for a good MMO using TES IP.  Now our dreams have been crushed.

Originally posted by dubyahite
They hate everything. Except GW 2, which is strange because this game looks to have a lot of GW 2 mechanics.

nah i think it's just you have a problem with gw2.

imagine if a creative and competent team were creating an elder scrolls mmo, clearly zenimax have no clue. in 2013 we should be able to have a true elder scrolls mmo, the technology is here now. instead we have another greedy company looking for a quick buck..don't buy this pos.

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Here are some good reasons that have nothing to do with the hero engine.

This is from another article about ESO:

ZeniMax Online's Paul Sage says "it needs to be comfortable for people who are coming from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms

its combat centres around hotbars activating skills. Your attacks have cooldowns. In clear terms, that means no real-time combat. It is literally explained as using "World of Warcraft mechanics"

"keeping large areas inaccessible to save them for use as expansion content"

Only "some fraction" of the caves and other landmarks in the game are waiting completely unmarked and unexplored

You can't own a house because it's "too hard to implement in an MMO"

It even looks like just another fantasy MMO, losing much of the refined elegance of Bethesda's games in exchange for a simpler style that looks little like the past few games in the series.

Just goes to show you how shallow and scripted these sacred cows people around here seem to think "open-world" SPRPG really are. When in fact they are the epitome of theme park in delivery and structure. They have to take their core game's lore and system and basically rehaul the whole damn thing in order for it to be qualified as a themepark mmo in their own eyes. Nice...

So much for the champions of such games hailing them as the day current mmos would harken back to the days of old if they were to even make them into full fledge mmos.

because only 0.5% or something of players consider it a deal breaker having player housing

and its an easy thing to plug in later when the "masses" start  "clamouring" for it.

It does look to be along the same lines as guild wars 2 the way they explain it. Im all for gw2 and im going to buy it but why the hell would I want to buy elder scrolls online as gw2? This is one of the worst ideas ive ever heard and it looks like all those cool elder scrolls things that we all know and love will be lost in translation and this will be some terrible bastardization of its former self.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

because only 0.5% or something of players consider it a deal breaker having player housing

and its an easy thing to plug in later when the "masses" start  "clamouring" for it.

What they should have said is this.

'our deployement of the game will not have player housing, we might entertain the idea later but for now it will not be there when we go live'

That is much better than.

'because player housing is not possible how players want it'

That statement attracted people like myself who dont care about player housing but do care about being lied too.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

What they should have said is this.

'our deployement of the game will not have player housing, we might entertain the idea later but for now it will not be there when we go live'

That is much better than.

'because player housing is not possible how players want it'

That statement attracted people like myself who dont care about player housing but do care about being lied too.

Not to mention that saying that "because player housing is not possible how players want it" is quite arrogant as they assume they actually know what players want.

Originally posted by MikeJT

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

What they should have said is this.

'our deployement of the game will not have player housing, we might entertain the idea later but for now it will not be there when we go live'

That is much better than.

'because player housing is not possible how players want it'

That statement attracted people like myself who dont care about player housing but do care about being lied too.

Not to mention that saying that "because player housing is not possible how players want it" is quite arrogant as they assume they actually know what players want.

true!

so not only is it possible, not only does many MMO have housing they ALSO assume we know what we want.

Terrible.