Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Actually i just found this:

 

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx?PageIndex=4

 

You licensed HeroEngine a long time ago. What role did the Hero Engine play in the development of ESO?

We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development. 

Sounds good to me.  They are "building" on the engine, as they said above.  It was that or construct from scratch, which we all should know is ridiculously time consuming and costly.

They're actually not using the Hero engine at all, they simply licensed in the beginning so they could start setting up zones, areas, art assets, etc, and transfer those to their own engine once they're done:

What were your project’s needs that drove your decisions as to which pieces of tech to use?

When you’re creating something this big and complex, writing your own engine makes debugging and new feature creation far easier. Also, our plan is to have ESO run on just about any PC or Mac – laptops included – that have been bought in the last five years. Of course the better your computer’s graphics capability, the better the game looks, but we want to be sure that just about anyone can play the game and have a great time exploring Tamriel. Because of this, we needed to write our engine to be versatile enough to add or cut back on graphical features based on the user’s hardware. To do this, we had to write our own renderer with our own shaders.

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Originally posted by jiveturkey12

"The hero engine is a good engine because I have faith in it."

 

Thats all your saying dude, the hero engine has never once proved itself to be a good engine, even everyone defending the damn engine says how bad SWTOR was, but wait! The devs dumbed down the game so thats not a good example. So if the only proof you have of it being a good engine is TOR thats cool man, but dont try and tell me I cant doubt the engine is any good when the only game actually made on it was a half-assed single player story driven mmo that flopped huge.

 

I would also like to comment that Bioware had a 100+mill budget AND the hero engine, so if thats the only good that a AAA company like bioware could do with the engine im sure indie devs are going to have a harder time. Look at the content of SWTOR, theres barely anything content wise past voice-overs, theres no 100's or thousands of hours of gameplay in it. And even the systems they made were half-assed. So again, we have one half-assed game and thats all on the pro-hero engine side.

 

Of course they are going to say their engines the shit, they want to make money, just like the ESO devs, just like the TOR devs. How about developers just start being original thats all Im asking. Actually im asking for them to grow a pair and try to think outside the box, and the hero engine is just another step inside the box. The only game that looks out of the norm or going against the grain is The Repopulation, but until the day that game comes out and is actually worth playing im not buying into the hero engine. I think ive explained my position very well, and I really dont even care about the hero engine, its just wierd how die hard people are to defend an engine with so few positive reviews. 

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So many empty words just to say: "I am not familiar with game engines, programming or software development in any way, shape or form and cannot provide Hero engine specifics you asked"...

One more time, as it seems some people still don't get it:

They are NOT using the Hero Engine.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

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Originally posted by Gdemami

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Originally posted by jiveturkey12 "The hero engine is a good engine because I have faith in it."   Thats all your saying dude, the hero engine has never once proved itself to be a good engine, even everyone defending the damn engine says how bad SWTOR was, but wait! The devs dumbed down the game so thats not a good example. So if the only proof you have of it being a good engine is TOR thats cool man, but dont try and tell me I cant doubt the engine is any good when the only game actually made on it was a half-assed single player story driven mmo that flopped huge.   I would also like to comment that Bioware had a 100+mill budget AND the hero engine, so if thats the only good that a AAA company like bioware could do with the engine im sure indie devs are going to have a harder time. Look at the content of SWTOR, theres barely anything content wise past voice-overs, theres no 100's or thousands of hours of gameplay in it. And even the systems they made were half-assed. So again, we have one half-assed game and thats all on the pro-hero engine side.   Of course they are going to say their engines the shit, they want to make money, just like the ESO devs, just like the TOR devs. How about developers just start being original thats all Im asking. Actually im asking for them to grow a pair and try to think outside the box, and the hero engine is just another step inside the box. The only game that looks out of the norm or going against the grain is The Repopulation, but until the day that game comes out and is actually worth playing im not buying into the hero engine. I think ive explained my position very well, and I really dont even care about the hero engine, its just wierd how die hard people are to defend an engine with so few positive reviews. 

---

So many empty

words just to say: "I am not familiar with game engines, programming or software development in any way, shape or form and cannot provide Hero engine specifics you asked"...

---

So instead of just takeing a donkey like stance why not check out the Repop forums,i'm sure you will have one of the devs as usual give a very honest answer,so far they have settled quite a few peoples nerves and have posted some fantastic responses in the many threads,you might even wanna go triple nuts and check out the extensive kickstarter pitch. You may still feel the need to wait which is fair enough but when Repop is a massive hit and the Hero engine is saved from it's SWTOR gloom i will feel redeemed that i trusted actual facts and i did not stick to an ignorant and false view point.

http://www.therepopulation.com/forum/index.php?f=7&t=391&rb_v=viewtopic

Originally posted by darker70

 

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Originally posted by Gdemami

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Originally posted by jiveturkey12 "The hero engine is a good engine because I have faith in it."   Thats all your saying dude, the hero engine has never once proved itself to be a good engine, even everyone defending the damn engine says how bad SWTOR was, but wait! The devs dumbed down the game so thats not a good example. So if the only proof you have of it being a good engine is TOR thats cool man, but dont try and tell me I cant doubt the engine is any good when the only game actually made on it was a half-assed single player story driven mmo that flopped huge.   I would also like to comment that Bioware had a 100+mill budget AND the hero engine, so if thats the only good that a AAA company like bioware could do with the engine im sure indie devs are going to have a harder time. Look at the content of SWTOR, theres barely anything content wise past voice-overs, theres no 100's or thousands of hours of gameplay in it. And even the systems they made were half-assed. So again, we have one half-assed game and thats all on the pro-hero engine side.   Of course they are going to say their engines the shit, they want to make money, just like the ESO devs, just like the TOR devs. How about developers just start being original thats all Im asking. Actually im asking for them to grow a pair and try to think outside the box, and the hero engine is just another step inside the box. The only game that looks out of the norm or going against the grain is The Repopulation, but until the day that game comes out and is actually worth playing im not buying into the hero engine. I think ive explained my position very well, and I really dont even care about the hero engine, its just wierd how die hard people are to defend an engine with so few positive reviews. 

---

So many empty

 

words just to say: "I am not familiar with game engines, programming or software development in any way, shape or form and cannot provide Hero engine specifics you asked"...

 

---

@Jive Turkey well it seems what ever valid point many of the peeps in here give about Hero,you seem to be pretty steadfast and dare i say it wrong in your view point but you do mention The Repopulation.

 

So instead of just takeing a donkey like stance why not check out the Repop forums,i'm sure you will have one of the devs as usual give a very honest answer,so far they have settled quite a few peoples nerves and have posted some fantastic responses in the many threads,you might even wanna go triple nuts and check out the extensive kickstarter pitch. You may still feel the need to wait which is fair enough but when Repop is a massive hit and the Hero engine is saved from it's SWTOR gloom i will feel redeemed that i trusted actual facts and i did not stick to an ignorant and false view point.

 

http://www.therepopulation.com/forum/index.php?f=7&t=391&rb_v=viewtopic

And now look at what Zenimax has announced, MegaSever just like TOR, PVP all instanced Just like TOR, I like how everyone bought into the idea that Zenimax hadnt used the Hero Engine for little more than a template, come on! They saw the bad press and of course they are going to cover it by playing down the use of a system that many people in the gaming world Hated!

I think ive been more than fair with both these games, ive been critical because no one else seems to want to question any developers choices EVEN if they are terrible ones that divide a community.

Hero Engine (As ive stated before) is what lost me for ESO, it was the first bad decision in a long line of terrible Directional problems from This Guy!

I love how people can bash on Brad Mcquaid, a man who reinvented a genre, and say Vanguard was him biting off more than he could chew and he was too late to the game. Now you want to support Firor!?

DAOC is his ONLY game that was midlly succesful, before that it cheesy games like Aliens online that Shutdown after 2 years, and campy fantasy games. 

Hes not half the visionary Brad Mcquaid was, and hes obviously using the Elder Scrolls franchise as a cash cow to make a more mainstream DAOC. Sorry but look at the facts, Zenimax is a misguided and misdirected company, and thats the reason ESO will fail in the end above all else.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Originally posted by darker70

 

---

Originally posted by Gdemami

---

Originally posted by jiveturkey12 "The hero engine is a good engine because I have faith in it."   Thats all your saying dude, the hero engine has never once proved itself to be a good engine, even everyone defending the damn engine says how bad SWTOR was, but wait! The devs dumbed down the game so thats not a good example. So if the only proof you have of it being a good engine is TOR thats cool man, but dont try and tell me I cant doubt the engine is any good when the only game actually made on it was a half-assed single player story driven mmo that flopped huge.   I would also like to comment that Bioware had a 100+mill budget AND the hero engine, so if thats the only good that a AAA company like bioware could do with the engine im sure indie devs are going to have a harder time. Look at the content of SWTOR, theres barely anything content wise past voice-overs, theres no 100's or thousands of hours of gameplay in it. And even the systems they made were half-assed. So again, we have one half-assed game and thats all on the pro-hero engine side.   Of course they are going to say their engines the shit, they want to make money, just like the ESO devs, just like the TOR devs. How about developers just start being original thats all Im asking. Actually im asking for them to grow a pair and try to think outside the box, and the hero engine is just another step inside the box. The only game that looks out of the norm or going against the grain is The Repopulation, but until the day that game comes out and is actually worth playing im not buying into the hero engine. I think ive explained my position very well, and I really dont even care about the hero engine, its just wierd how die hard people are to defend an engine with so few positive reviews. 

---

So many empty

 

words just to say: "I am not familiar with game engines, programming or software development in any way, shape or form and cannot provide Hero engine specifics you asked"...

 

---

@Jive Turkey well it seems what ever valid point many of the peeps in here give about Hero,you seem to be pretty steadfast and dare i say it wrong in your view point but you do mention The Repopulation.

 

So instead of just takeing a donkey like stance why not check out the Repop forums,i'm sure you will have one of the devs as usual give a very honest answer,so far they have settled quite a few peoples nerves and have posted some fantastic responses in the many threads,you might even wanna go triple nuts and check out the extensive kickstarter pitch. You may still feel the need to wait which is fair enough but when Repop is a massive hit and the Hero engine is saved from it's SWTOR gloom i will feel redeemed that i trusted actual facts and i did not stick to an ignorant and false view point.

 

http://www.therepopulation.com/forum/index.php?f=7&t=391&rb_v=viewtopic

And now look at what Zenimax has announced, MegaSever just like TOR, PVP all instanced Just like TOR, I like how everyone bought into the idea that Zenimax hadnt used the Hero Engine for little more than a template, come on! They saw the bad press and of course they are going to cover it by playing down the use of a system that many people in the gaming world Hated!

I think ive been more than fair with both these games, ive been critical because no one else seems to want to question any developers choices EVEN if they are terrible ones that divide a community.

Hero Engine (As ive stated before) is what lost me for ESO, it was the first bad decision in a long line of terrible Directional problems from This Guy!

I love how people can bash on Brad Mcquaid, a man who reinvented a genre, and say Vanguard was him biting off more than he could chew and he was too late to the game. Now you want to support Firor!?

DAOC is his ONLY game that was midlly succesful, before that it cheesy games like Aliens online that Shutdown after 2 years, and campy fantasy games. 

Hes not half the visionary Brad Mcquaid was, and hes obviously using the Elder Scrolls franchise as a cash cow to make a more mainstream DAOC. Sorry but look at the facts, Zenimax is a misguided and misdirected company, and thats the reason ESO will fail in the end above all else.

So you dont like the game because its using the hero enging, its since been announced that the hero engine was only used while they built their own engine and now you just dont like the game....welll....just because?

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Originally posted by darker70

 

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Originally posted by Gdemami

---

Originally posted by jiveturkey12 "The hero engine is a good engine because I have faith in it."   Thats all your saying dude, the hero engine has never once proved itself to be a good engine, even everyone defending the damn engine says how bad SWTOR was, but wait! The devs dumbed down the game so thats not a good example. So if the only proof you have of it being a good engine is TOR thats cool man, but dont try and tell me I cant doubt the engine is any good when the only game actually made on it was a half-assed single player story driven mmo that flopped huge.   I would also like to comment that Bioware had a 100+mill budget AND the hero engine, so if thats the only good that a AAA company like bioware could do with the engine im sure indie devs are going to have a harder time. Look at the content of SWTOR, theres barely anything content wise past voice-overs, theres no 100's or thousands of hours of gameplay in it. And even the systems they made were half-assed. So again, we have one half-assed game and thats all on the pro-hero engine side.   Of course they are going to say their engines the shit, they want to make money, just like the ESO devs, just like the TOR devs. How about developers just start being original thats all Im asking. Actually im asking for them to grow a pair and try to think outside the box, and the hero engine is just another step inside the box. The only game that looks out of the norm or going against the grain is The Repopulation, but until the day that game comes out and is actually worth playing im not buying into the hero engine. I think ive explained my position very well, and I really dont even care about the hero engine, its just wierd how die hard people are to defend an engine with so few positive reviews. 

---

So many empty

 

words just to say: "I am not familiar with game engines, programming or software development in any way, shape or form and cannot provide Hero engine specifics you asked"...

 

---

@Jive Turkey well it seems what ever valid point many of the peeps in here give about Hero,you seem to be pretty steadfast and dare i say it wrong in your view point but you do mention The Repopulation.

 

So instead of just takeing a donkey like stance why not check out the Repop forums,i'm sure you will have one of the devs as usual give a very honest answer,so far they have settled quite a few peoples nerves and have posted some fantastic responses in the many threads,you might even wanna go triple nuts and check out the extensive kickstarter pitch. You may still feel the need to wait which is fair enough but when Repop is a massive hit and the Hero engine is saved from it's SWTOR gloom i will feel redeemed that i trusted actual facts and i did not stick to an ignorant and false view point.

 

http://www.therepopulation.com/forum/index.php?f=7&t=391&rb_v=viewtopic

And now look at what Zenimax has announced, MegaSever just like TOR, PVP all instanced Just like TOR, I like how everyone bought into the idea that Zenimax hadnt used the Hero Engine for little more than a template, come on! They saw the bad press and of course they are going to cover it by playing down the use of a system that many people in the gaming world Hated!

I think ive been more than fair with both these games, ive been critical because no one else seems to want to question any developers choices EVEN if they are terrible ones that divide a community.

Hero Engine (As ive stated before) is what lost me for ESO, it was the first bad decision in a long line of terrible Directional problems from This Guy!

I love how people can bash on Brad Mcquaid, a man who reinvented a genre, and say Vanguard was him biting off more than he could chew and he was too late to the game. Now you want to support Firor!?

DAOC is his ONLY game that was midlly succesful, before that it cheesy games like Aliens online that Shutdown after 2 years, and campy fantasy games. 

Hes not half the visionary Brad Mcquaid was, and hes obviously using the Elder Scrolls franchise as a cash cow to make a more mainstream DAOC. Sorry but look at the facts, Zenimax is a misguided and misdirected company, and thats the reason ESO will fail in the end above all else.

So you dont like the game because its using the hero enging, its since been announced that the hero engine was only used while they built their own engine and now you just dont like the game....welll....just because?

You think his track record makes him the head of a gaming company that is holding one of the biggest fantasy franchises of all time?? 

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

You think his track record makes him the head of a gaming company that is holding one of the biggest fantasy franchises of all time?? 

His track record is hardly bad, if it was he wouldnt have kept the same job for 11 years working on one of the most succesfull mmo's (at the time), one that won best pvp game of the decade from tth

So yes he is fine for the job

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

You think his track record makes him the head of a gaming company that is holding one of the biggest fantasy franchises of all time?? 

His track record is hardly bad, if it was he wouldnt have kept the same job for 11 years working on one of the most succesfull mmo's (at the time), one that won best pvp game of the decade from tth

 

So yes he is fine for the job

The Fundamental principle is that he designed the game to be DAOC/SWTOR/GW2 rolled together.

He took the engine template from the hero engine which severly hindered TOR from the start, mixed it with Three Faction PVP even though it makes absolutely no sense with the Lore of Elder Scrolls, and threw in Megaservers and a cheap way to say "Free-Form Class System" and called it a day. Thats not innovation, thats doing what everyone else does. 

Elder Scrolls online had the unique chance to be an open world, create your own story, fantasy MMORPG to be remembered, and you want to side with the guy who threw away that chance why? So that you can play ESO? So you think that the thousands of people who Should have gotten a better game, the CORE fanbase that made the series possible, should be thrown under the water and have their voices drowned out so Matt Fior can retire wealthy???

How about we actually call the game out for what it is? A cheap Cash Cow with a title on it. Again no would care if this wasnt Elder Scrolls but im sorry make your own IP or pick one that fits the game your developing. ITs Poor MArketing, poor Direction, and above all else a damn shame.

I dont know why its so hard for people to empathize with a Logical arguement. Put your petty Flavor of the Month MMORPG bullshit aside for a minute and see the big picture.

Just a necro, nvm.

Please do not necro 5 month old discussions.

Locking this thread.