Trending Games | ArcheAge | Swordsman | World of Warcraft | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,736,729 Users Online:0
Games:714  Posts:6,175,423
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 Has Revealed Something To Me

9 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
167 posts found
  Meleagar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 407

 
OP  5/04/12 12:10:47 PM#41

"OP, you make developers look like bad guys.  its ultimately the players choice"

Because players have a choice to play the game or not doesn't change the nature of what the developers have created the past 15-20 years.  Perhaps I was a little harsh - developers are just people trying to earn a living, but it's not like the player base hasn't been letting them know that they wanted a friendlier, less elitest, more inclusive and diverse game all this time. Every tiny step forward towards a more casual, friendly, and less exclusive, elitist MMORPG has been met with ranting, raving and derision from the harcore players, and always- always - with a bait-and-switch "new" game from developers.

 

"Without fear, it's pointless."

All I can say about this attitude is good riddance.

 

One thing that I LOVED was when a poster on the GW2 beta forums complained about not being able to create an actually evil character; even a street-gutter thief only had noble (or semi-noble) responses in the personal story bits. The ANET rep said, to sum up: "Other games have that. This isn't that kind of game."

  Mithrandolir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 1673

Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft' might win, by fearing to attempt

5/04/12 12:11:15 PM#42

everything that I am trying to convey in my posts in this thread, can be summed up in this sentence.

Not everyone who enjoys the freedom that allows a griefer to grief, is a griefer himself (or herself).

 

 

 

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3100

5/04/12 12:12:45 PM#43
Originally posted by Mithrandolir
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Mithrandolir

The fear is a massive part of that freedom for me. Without fear, it's pointless.

I'm not challenging anybody's view, and I really am happy that GW2 is the game for a lot of people. But removing that fear is anything but increasing the freedom imo, and I can only speak for myself and the people that I regularly play mmo's with.

If I want fear, I don't play a game like GW2. The model just isn't appropriate for it (except eventually in the WvWvW area). And please, having your quest mob ninjaed or your resource node stolen while you fight nearby on a PvE server (or even on a PvP server by someone of your own side) isn't FEAR - it's a broken mechanic, because you can't do anything about it.

The isn't UO Felucia. This isn't AC1 Darktide. And it never intended to be. You're comparing apples and oranges. I totally agree with you that removing the possibility of loot/node/mob ninjaing in a FFA PvP game would be restricting freedom. But not in a game of the model of GW2.

I wont play GW2 and you know this as we've discussed it before. I am not bashing the game at all, I am against the attitude that all games should move towards this (reread the original post if you want to see where I am directing my conversation).

 

Totally agree here.  PVE/Social Mmorg needs to evolve as does more aggressive PVP style games - We want both as gamers.

 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Mithrandolir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 1673

Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft' might win, by fearing to attempt

5/04/12 12:12:58 PM#44
Originally posted by Meleagar

"OP, you make developers look like bad guys.  its ultimately the players choice"

Because players have a choice to play the game or not doesn't change the nature of what the developers have created the past 15-20 years.  Perhaps I was a little harsh - developers are just people trying to earn a living, but it's not like the player base hasn't been letting them know that they wanted a friendlier, less elitest, more inclusive and diverse game all this time. Every tiny step forward towards a more casual, friendly, and less exclusive, elitist MMORPG has been met with ranting, raving and derision from the harcore players, and always- always - with a bait-and-switch "new" game from developers.

"Without fear, it's pointless."

All I can say about this attitude is good riddance.

One thing that I LOVED was when a poster on the GW2 beta forums complained about not being able to create an actually evil character; even a street-gutter thief only had noble (or semi-noble) responses in the personal story bits. The ANET rep said, to sum up: "Other games have that. This isn't that kind of game."

I was talking about me feeling the fear, not causing it... but once again, it;s your way or the highway. This is a very common stance on both extreme sides of this coin, and I am not about to waste time challenging the extremists here.

 

 

 

 

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3100

5/04/12 12:16:47 PM#45
Originally posted by Meleagar

"OP, you make developers look like bad guys.  its ultimately the players choice"

Because players have a choice to play the game or not doesn't change the nature of what the developers have created the past 15-20 years.  Perhaps I was a little harsh - developers are just people trying to earn a living, but it's not like the player base hasn't been letting them know that they wanted a friendlier, less elitest, more inclusive and diverse game all this time. Every tiny step forward towards a more casual, friendly, and less exclusive, elitist MMORPG has been met with ranting, raving and derision from the harcore players, and always- always - with a bait-and-switch "new" game from developers.

 

"Without fear, it's pointless."

All I can say about this attitude is good riddance.

 

Disagree, I love GW2, PVE, Achievment hunting, love it - its what ive done since day dot.  I also Love EVE, where there is a real bite and fear element  to the game, you wander into a null zone and the gaming is intense (and i never grief, I hate griefing)

 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2637

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

5/04/12 12:18:32 PM#46
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Mithrandolir
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Mithrandolir

The fear is a massive part of that freedom for me. Without fear, it's pointless.

I'm not challenging anybody's view, and I really am happy that GW2 is the game for a lot of people. But removing that fear is anything but increasing the freedom imo, and I can only speak for myself and the people that I regularly play mmo's with.

If I want fear, I don't play a game like GW2. The model just isn't appropriate for it (except eventually in the WvWvW area). And please, having your quest mob ninjaed or your resource node stolen while you fight nearby on a PvE server (or even on a PvP server by someone of your own side) isn't FEAR - it's a broken mechanic, because you can't do anything about it.

The isn't UO Felucia. This isn't AC1 Darktide. And it never intended to be. You're comparing apples and oranges. I totally agree with you that removing the possibility of loot/node/mob ninjaing in a FFA PvP game would be restricting freedom. But not in a game of the model of GW2.

I wont play GW2 and you know this as we've discussed it before. I am not bashing the game at all, I am against the attitude that all games should move towards this (reread the original post if you want to see where I am directing my conversation).

 

Totally agree here.  PVE/Social Mmorg needs to evolve as does more aggressive PVP style games - We want both as gamers.

 

I'm with you on this. I like GW2. But I also like my Sandbox and Open PvP games (not always one and the same). No reason we can't have both.

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

5/04/12 12:19:41 PM#47

The GW2 beta was certainly a pleasant experience, once I was able to log into it. There wasn't the annoying cesspit of the general chat, there weren't players solo'ing quest side by side, or watching their backs, in case someone from an enemy faction comes around & kills them during PvE. It simply was pleasant.

 

Like in the Norn area, when I went up a mountain to get a skill-point and was overrun by all the mobs there. When I got to the waypoint to head back up there, I saw 2 other players trying to make their way up their as well. What happened is that we all helped each other. I was an Engineer so I'd toss elixers to buff us and the Warrior was able to tank them for a bit cause of the protection buff I gave. When he went down both me & the other player went to res him and we continued until he reached the Champion to get the skill point. Once we got it, there was a simple /wave and we were on our seperate journeys, occassionally bumping into each other again, due to the Event system.

 

That's how more MMORPGs should be, in some way. That's Guild Wars 2.

  User Deleted
5/04/12 12:21:42 PM#48
Originally posted by Mithrandolir

I wont play GW2 and you know this as we've discussed it before. I am not bashing the game at all, I am against the attitude that all games should move towards this (reread the original post if you want to see where I am directing my conversation).

You say "because you can't do anything about it", like I said I am against that as well, that's not freedom. The griefing has to have repercussions or else it's as restrictive as the freedom in GW2 is.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Gonna make it more simple, I know I'm sometimes not clear enough, possibly because English isn't my first language too.

- In other game models, the cooperative mechanics of GW2 would indeed be restrictive and reducing "freedom". Take UO Feluccia, AC1 Darktide, EVE, Darkfall, Mortal (disregarting how bad some of those games were otherwise) and yes, in those games it would restrict freedom, because there are already mechanics built in the game for that.

- In the GW2 model, and I believe also in WoW clone model games, those mechanics can only improve "freedom". I can live without the loot/ninjaing/griefing model one can do nothing about. That's why I think that in THAT model, GW2 did it right and improved general "freedom", and also community. Frustration when you can't fight back is one of the worse of freedom breakers, and the victims are always the players who try to be honest and share. A game where the good people are always the victims and don't have any way to fight back is a game with a flaw.

About loot, this is true for any model anyway. I doubt anyone can argue against the fact that anyone who participated in a fight should be rewarded for it. The "loot whore" model where you arrive at the end of a dungeon without anything when you actually did twice the work of the other party members is flawed since day one (which goes back to EQ). Loot drama sucks in any game, and it's way better to see everybody who fought on your side after a victory leave with a smile.

  Palladin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 434

5/04/12 12:22:01 PM#49

I agree also.

I found myself really enjoying the cooperative spirit during events. In many fights as a guardian I found myself running about recovering or resing fallen players and before long others started doing it along side me. It became clear that putting several people on a single fallen comrade would help to revcover that person faster.

I have always enjoyed coop game play more than single play which got me really excited and why I bought the game a week and a half before the BWE even before I knew it would get me into the BWE. The guilds themselves are designed for coop participation.

I think GW2 will be the new standard for mising PvE and PVP in a game. I'll certainly not mis these very few hard core PvPers looking for open world full loot games ALL of which have failed miserably in past years.

AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition
8 gig Ram
Radeon 4870

  semantikron

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/07
Posts: 260

5/04/12 12:28:38 PM#50
Originally posted by Mithrandolir

everything that I am trying to convey in my posts in this thread, can be summed up in this sentence.

Not everyone who enjoys the freedom that allows a griefer to grief, is a griefer himself (or herself).

You don't even have to defend a dog-eat-dog MMO on those grounds, imo.  (edit:  by that I mean, it's not necessary to move your defense of a predatory game environment to grounds of personal taste).   If a game is designed so that its basic mechanics revolve around survival, then there is no such thing as 'griefing', just choices between individual and mutual survival.  Griefing comes into existence when the game suggests to the player that it is about one thing, and it is possible for players to game the mechanics and create a sub-game where making that suggestion out to be a lie is the game for them.  There's nothing wrong with 'griefing' on a billiards table.  But it's generally not cool to bump a pinball machine while someone else is playing.

Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.

  Mahavishnu

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/12
Posts: 333

5/04/12 12:34:07 PM#51

@BadSpock

I remember doing such stuff when I started playing WoW almost a decade ago: I did a lot of "grey" quests, because sometimes I just liked to fully explore a zone. Or I did a quest several times, because sombody asked for help. I helped other players as I passed by, etc.

It took a long time until I realised, that all this was completely useless, and that I had to change my playingstyle to be more efficient in "MMO-terms".

Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  UngoHumungo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 522

I'm here......wheres the fish?

5/04/12 12:34:49 PM#52
Originally posted by Meleagar

In the GW2 Beta, you had to actually force yourself to realize you can like being around other people now. You can be generous, patient, and enjoy the company of fellow adventurers.  They cannot kill steal, ninja-loot, or bogart your nodes. All they can really do is help you. and increase your enjoyment of the game.

This made me wonder: what kind of malicious, sadistic, anti-social misfits have been programming MMOGs up until now? Why make it so that other players could steal your kill in the first place? Why make it so that resource nodes and loot was open to ninja stealing? Why program the game to force formal grouping and ultimately reward only those wiling to sacrifice their real lives for the game? Why set up a system that formally kept most of the players out of the top content and rewards?

The GW2 beta event was a real eye-opener. It's almost like Arenanet has broken some conspiratorial, secret set of MMOG development rules that, before now, we all just accepted as a necessary part of the genre. A lot of us were experiencing a kind of abused spouse syndrome, where we were expecting to get sucker-punched or slapped every time we turned around, and were instead shocked at the generosity and kindness displayed by our fellow adventurers, and the welcoming empowerment of the game-mechanics.  Many of us had to work to discard bad habits that were necessary to cultivate in other MMOGs.

Once we realized the game really did embrace us, and that there was no game value in being an asshole (and lots of reason to not be), and that the game wasn't going to exclude us or force us to play some way we didn't want to play, there was this huge sense of relief and euphoria, like being set free from the harsh, unnecessary and unjust shackles of prior MMOGs.

Now there's a realization, much like when I read an interview with some Verant (EQ) developer who said that the player base enjoyed being the victims of GM vs Uberguild events: we casual players been lied to and used, suckered into playing games that had no intention of treating us with respect or consideration for the express purpose of populating those games as  victims, 2nd-class citizens, and scrubs for the ego-amusement of others - including the developers themselves.

 

 

 

 

this post is win

There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  Meleagar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 407

 
OP  5/04/12 12:38:29 PM#53
Originally posted by Mithrandolir
Originally posted by Meleagar

"OP, you make developers look like bad guys.  its ultimately the players choice"

Because players have a choice to play the game or not doesn't change the nature of what the developers have created the past 15-20 years.  Perhaps I was a little harsh - developers are just people trying to earn a living, but it's not like the player base hasn't been letting them know that they wanted a friendlier, less elitest, more inclusive and diverse game all this time. Every tiny step forward towards a more casual, friendly, and less exclusive, elitist MMORPG has been met with ranting, raving and derision from the harcore players, and always- always - with a bait-and-switch "new" game from developers.

"Without fear, it's pointless."

All I can say about this attitude is good riddance.

One thing that I LOVED was when a poster on the GW2 beta forums complained about not being able to create an actually evil character; even a street-gutter thief only had noble (or semi-noble) responses in the personal story bits. The ANET rep said, to sum up: "Other games have that. This isn't that kind of game."

I was talking about me feeling the fear, not causing it... but once again, it;s your way or the highway. This is a very common stance on both extreme sides of this coin, and I am not about to waste time challenging the extremists here.

You have apparently missed the essence of my post, that for the past 15-20 years "the fear" is all we have had to choose from. You are the one saying that "without fear, it's pointless" as if MMOGing is pointless without artificially induced fear and distrust between players, which is no doubt the same kind of perspective that has been driving the development of these games ever since they first came out. I would have no complaint, nor any negative commentary to issue about MMOG developers had they offered us something other than this exclusionary, elitist, griefing, ninjaing, kill-stealing. play-like-it's-your-professional-obsession tripe for the past couple of decades through scores and scores of titles.

Yeah, you bet. I hold the developers accountable for their share in perpetuating this.

All this time,it's been your way or the highway - their way or the highway, fear and distrust and exclusivity and only-pros-need-apply or the highway, casual players are invited to be our scrubs and peasantry - or the highway.

Now that there's a game that actually changes this, actually puts something together that fosters an entirely different dynamic and perspective not based on fear and distrust, and I tell you and your fear-addicted ilk "good riddance" because I finally have ONE MMOG I can relax and have fun in that isn't at anyone else's expense, nor their's at mine, and I'm the one saying it's "my way or the highway"?

It's not "my way" or the highway, it's GW2 or "your choice of about 1000 other MMOGs" that share your "fear and distrust" perspective of why one should play an MMOG "or it's pointless".

 

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

5/04/12 12:39:12 PM#54
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Redemp
Originally posted by Puremallace

Then you get to end game and realize it is all about 5mans instances and zerg vs zerg vs zerg. Nice post, but Rift was doing this as early as February of last year and got the video to prove it posted on youtube.

 You're in super bitter mode arn't you? I used to read what you replied in threads ... I'm not sure what game ruined you so.

+1, it is  strange how some people can apparantly enjoy being miserable and try to encourage negativity. this diseased attitude is destroying gaming discussion communities.

The assumption that somehow GW2 created huge groups of people doing stuff is pure idiocy or a SEVERELYYYYY narrow minded view of mmorpg's. Sorry I have to be the one to give the reality check here.

 

Was there a auto group feature? Could you press a button and be in a raid group??

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13113

5/04/12 12:55:23 PM#55

I don't know which game was the first to encourage ninja looting, but that was probably just carelessness on the part of the game developers.  The next several dozen were probably mostly just copying what previous games had done.

But Guild Wars 2 is hardly the first game to stop ninja looting.  For starters, there is Guild Wars 1.

It's the same story with kill stealing.  It probably started with careless game design and continued with copycat developers, but Guild Wars 2 isn't the first game to stop it.  For example, in Champions Online, if two players aren't grouped and both participate in killing a mob, both get quest credit for it.

  vesuvias

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 126

5/04/12 12:56:00 PM#56

Well stated OP. Your exactly right. IMO its this simple fact alone that makes GW2 a next Gen MMO. 

In fact I really think we need to have a new acronym for the type of gameplay presented by GW2. They have already renamed thier RvR to WvW. I really think thier PvE should be called WvE. As it is one of the first games that really does make it a "All of Us" vs "The Enviroment" complementing or supporting the "Our Server" vs "Thier Server" PvP aspects.

 

 

  Mithrandolir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 1673

Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft' might win, by fearing to attempt

5/04/12 1:00:52 PM#57
Originally posted by Meleagar
Originally posted by Mithrandolir
Originally posted by Meleagar

"OP, you make developers look like bad guys.  its ultimately the players choice"

Because players have a choice to play the game or not doesn't change the nature of what the developers have created the past 15-20 years.  Perhaps I was a little harsh - developers are just people trying to earn a living, but it's not like the player base hasn't been letting them know that they wanted a friendlier, less elitest, more inclusive and diverse game all this time. Every tiny step forward towards a more casual, friendly, and less exclusive, elitist MMORPG has been met with ranting, raving and derision from the harcore players, and always- always - with a bait-and-switch "new" game from developers.

"Without fear, it's pointless."

All I can say about this attitude is good riddance.

One thing that I LOVED was when a poster on the GW2 beta forums complained about not being able to create an actually evil character; even a street-gutter thief only had noble (or semi-noble) responses in the personal story bits. The ANET rep said, to sum up: "Other games have that. This isn't that kind of game."

I was talking about me feeling the fear, not causing it... but once again, it;s your way or the highway. This is a very common stance on both extreme sides of this coin, and I am not about to waste time challenging the extremists here.

You have apparently missed the essence of my post, that for the past 15-20 years "the fear" is all we have had to choose from. You are the one saying that "without fear, it's pointless" as if MMOGing is pointless without artificially induced fear and distrust between players, which is no doubt the same kind of perspective that has been driving the development of these games ever since they first came out. I would have no complaint, nor any negative commentary to issue about MMOG developers had they offered us something other than this exclusionary, elitist, griefing, ninjaing, kill-stealing. play-like-it's-your-professional-obsession tripe for the past couple of decades through scores and scores of titles.

Yeah, you bet. I hold the developers accountable for their share in perpetuating this.

All this time,it's been your way or the highway - their way or the highway, fear and distrust and exclusivity and only-pros-need-apply or the highway, casual players are invited to be our scrubs and peasantry - or the highway.

Now that there's a game that actually changes this, actually puts something together that fosters an entirely different dynamic and perspective not based on fear and distrust, and I tell you and your fear-addicted ilk "good riddance" because I finally have ONE MMOG I can relax and have fun in that isn't at anyone else's expense, nor their's at mine, and I'm the one saying it's "my way or the highway"?

It's not "my way" or the highway, it's GW2 or "your choice of about 1000 other MMOGs" that share your "fear and distrust" perspective of why one should play an MMOG "or it's pointless".

 

Well I sincerely hope that you get many more games like GW2 that cater to your playstyle, that's something I have have wished for since day 1. Both styles of games for both style of players :)

I wouldn't dream of wishing GW2 to change their game to suit me, or any other game for that matter. I simply bypass the ones that have been heavily restrictive imo and I play the ones that create an atmosphere that I enjoy, where I have to very careful who I trust and they have to be very careful who they screw.

To you though, I dont think "good riddance" from my types of games, I simply wish you the best in your game.

 

 

  Mithrandolir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 1673

Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft' might win, by fearing to attempt

5/04/12 1:03:18 PM#58
Originally posted by semantikron
Originally posted by Mithrandolir

everything that I am trying to convey in my posts in this thread, can be summed up in this sentence.

Not everyone who enjoys the freedom that allows a griefer to grief, is a griefer himself (or herself).

You don't even have to defend a dog-eat-dog MMO on those grounds, imo.  (edit:  by that I mean, it's not necessary to move your defense of a predatory game environment to grounds of personal taste).   If a game is designed so that its basic mechanics revolve around survival, then there is no such thing as 'griefing', just choices between individual and mutual survival.  Griefing comes into existence when the game suggests to the player that it is about one thing, and it is possible for players to game the mechanics and create a sub-game where making that suggestion out to be a lie is the game for them.  There's nothing wrong with 'griefing' on a billiards table.  But it's generally not cool to bump a pinball machine while someone else is playing.

^ Thank you! Much better said than I did :)

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2007

5/04/12 1:03:39 PM#59
Originally posted by Puremallace

The assumption that somehow GW2 created huge groups of people doing stuff is pure idiocy or a SEVERELYYYYY narrow minded view of mmorpg's. Sorry I have to be the one to give the reality check here.

 

Was there a auto group feature? Could you press a button and be in a raid group??

You didn't need to.  Aside from having your own private chat and being able to see people's health bars through another means there was no benefit to grouping up.  Aside from that everything you could do inside a group you could do out, from buffing other people, sharing (poor wood for it since you get FULL credit no matter how many hit it, unlike in other MMOs) EXP, using cross profession combos, healing, and partaking in events.  You could also see nearby corpses to revive whether they are in your group or not on your map and other nearby players would be visible on your map as green dots also.

You could request to join others groups if you absolutely needed to group up.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  User Deleted
5/04/12 1:05:02 PM#60
Originally posted by Mithrandolir
Originally posted by semantikron
Originally posted by Mithrandolir

everything that I am trying to convey in my posts in this thread, can be summed up in this sentence.

Not everyone who enjoys the freedom that allows a griefer to grief, is a griefer himself (or herself).

You don't even have to defend a dog-eat-dog MMO on those grounds, imo.  (edit:  by that I mean, it's not necessary to move your defense of a predatory game environment to grounds of personal taste).   If a game is designed so that its basic mechanics revolve around survival, then there is no such thing as 'griefing', just choices between individual and mutual survival.  Griefing comes into existence when the game suggests to the player that it is about one thing, and it is possible for players to game the mechanics and create a sub-game where making that suggestion out to be a lie is the game for them.  There's nothing wrong with 'griefing' on a billiards table.  But it's generally not cool to bump a pinball machine while someone else is playing.

^ Thank you! Much better said than I did :)

Which is pretty much what I was also saying, in a certainly more confusing way :)

9 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search