Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

There were never 20 geared players there unless it was in the last hour before server restart, where nothing was saved.  I also played UO, so you can't actually lie and get away with it.

It was 1 part gear, 3 parts skill and 6 part connection speed and stability.  Most players in UO wore the similar gear. 

Non-FPS games take skill.  I've seen a ton of horrible players in games like WoW.  Are you saying Stratego doesn't take skill?  Scrabble?  That is an ignorant viewpoint in my opinion.

I just can't see how there could be a good ES mmo in the current regime of mmo designs. All the core game elements of an ES game is more or less in strong contrast with the mmo releases we have witnessed during the passed five or so years.

They better put this on hold till both server technology and the market is ready. Or send some resources on implementing small scale multiplayer to Skyrim instead.

I love this scene (& this movie!): Appropriate reaction?: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvbQ4wJak_c

---

Originally posted by Bainwalker
Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.
 
Anyone agree?

---

As it seems they will lose the true TES fans at least me im not gonne play a dumb themepark.

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

It's called Player Policing.  Players can be D-bags... however some players can also be the good guys.  That's the beauty of FFA PvP games... everything lies upon the players to create the rules.  

LoL, when you get back to leprechaun and unicorn land then we can talk. 

lol player policing *shakes head*, I can't believe people are still try to sell that crap.

It used to happen... before game's were solo affairs, when rep mattered and having a bad one seriously gimped your progress.

Also before the dominance of said solo games, and PvP, turned the communties in most games into cesspits. Player policing is possible, but only if supported by design. We haven't seen that design for a LONG time though.

(btw, no need to talk to others the way you do here... it actually damages your credibility and causes others to dismiss your PoV out of hand. Not having a go, just saying)

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Unreal024

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Unreal024

I agree somewhat, but I disagree with you on a few things.

 

1. TES series are not sandbox games, so why should an ES MMO be?

 

2. The three faction PvP system sounds much better than FFA.

 

I could care less that it's going to play a lot like your standard themepark, what angers me is that it's doing away with FPV, twitch combat, housing, free form character progression and probably a whole lot more. It could still be a fun game, whether or not I decide to give it a go will depend on a few things, once being payment model.

It is a sandbox. You can go out and do as you wish. You can slaughter a town, take over someones house. The main quest is only a portion of whats there to do.

Sandbox is a virtual world with an assortment of things for you to choose to do when you want to do them. Creating your own content is only one aspect of a sandbox and not an aspect all sandboxes share.

It's nice to see people trying to suddenly declare the TES series a themepark lol.

What your talking about is an open world. Being able to roam freely and do what you want is not a sandbox. It doesn't matter what games people want to label as a sandbox, the very word sandbox implies creation. Therefore, every sandbox game should rely heavily on player created content, something which TES has never done.

It amazes me what people try to label a themepark. No, after all these years the TES series has not magically been reclassified as a themepark lol. Sorry man, you may feel differently but it is called and accepted as a sandbox due to the open world. You may not like it or agree with it but apparently your opinion isn't the widely accepted one.

An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.^[1] Video games that include such level design often are referred to as "free roam" games.

The term is sometimes used interchangeably with "sandbox" and "free-roaming";^[2][3] however, the terms open world and free-roaming describe the game environment itself and allude more to the absence of artificial barriers,^[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way"^[5] of playing the game.

DeWe're ready to come up whenever you guys are. Figured maybe after you were finished your school year.spite their name, many open world games still enforce restrictions at some points in the game environment, either due to absolute game design limitations or temporary in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.

 

Hell here I'll even give you the above, a wikipedia refference on the matter.

Grand Theft Auto is widely considered a sandbox

UO

TES series

I mean you aren't required to agree but you do need to acknowledge your view on what a sandbox is not the widely accepted one. In accepting that you can see why your comments above are being regarded as incorrect.

Originally posted by Xzen

LoL, when you get back to leprechaun and unicorn land then we can talk. 

lol player policing *shakes head*, I can't believe people are still try to sell that crap.

Come on now. If you played UO you know that this happend. I saw bands of blue PKKs all the time. All they did was hunt down red players. Now I'll grant that in newer FFA PvP games like EvE and DF this doesn't happen anymore. It's pretty much bad guys vs bad guys now.

Something being there any something actually working are two very different things.

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

Yeah because FFA pvp Sandbox is where the real money is. DF, MO etc are such run away success.

Again just because indie companies with small budgets fail doesn't mean Zenimax would.  Why should creating something different be stopped because of some failures?  You people have no idea how popular the ideas behind DF / MO were before launch and the only reasons said games have failed is because the developers failed to bring what they had promised to the table.  

 

Sandbox FFA PvP can work.  That correct balance can be found.  Such a shame TES won't be the MMO it could have been and should be by all rights.

it is always easy to gamble on other people money. 

Originally posted by Evenhope

 

 

Minecraft is the epitome of sandbox. TES is sandbox but to a lesser extent. Zelda is open world. WoW is themepark

Technically, Minecraft is an open-ended game.  It's a variation of games like simcity.  They aren't sandbox games, they're just open-ended.

What is the objective of minecraft?  To build.

Is there any way to avoid the objective of the game?  Yes, by not playing it; it is the only way to diverge from the objective. 

Am I unaware of some other way in which minecraft is played?  I tried it once for about 10  minutes and then I remembered that I'm this incredibly talented artist that paints lifelike picture, and actually know how to use coral with a tablet properly on top of tradition paint mediums; and this game sucks.

The entire premise sinse the first sandbox mode was created, was that you don't have to play the objective and can do whatever you want.   If I'm not doing the objective in minecraft, I'm not playing it.  Or is there some other way to play minecraft that I'm unaware of?

Simcity has never, ever been classified as a sandbox, it's always been an open-ended, city buiding, strategy game.  Because it's impossible to play simcity without playing the objective.  Building crap.

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

There were never 20 geared players there unless it was in the last hour before server restart, where nothing was saved.  I also played UO, so you can't actually lie and get away with it.

 

It was 1 part gear, 3 parts skill and 6 part connection speed and stability.  Most players in UO wore the similar gear. 

 

Non-FPS games take skill.  I've seen a ton of horrible players in games like WoW.  Are you saying Stratego doesn't take skill?  Scrabble?  That is an ignorant viewpoint in my opinion.

Yeah you shouldn't cherry pick words from various post and try to ah ha me.  It only make you look silly.  And how do you know there were never 20 d-bags hanging out at the bridges?  Is that you santa?

Clearly since I said level and gear I figured most would assume I wasn't refering to UO.  But if you want to talk UO pvp you should get rid of gear and shave skill down to 2.  Then add 2 for macroing program.  For UO pking shave another one off skill and take one from connecting for 2 point in (deadly poisoned katana, and greater explosion potion.

Double cast spell, followed by the explosion potion, and then poison katana =  insta death.  Look mom I'm a epic skilled pvper.

Everything has to take some amount of skill, but if you want to beat your chest about being some epic pvper play a game that is actually designed for pvp.

I can't do this round and round anymore.  You'll keep shoveling that ffapvp is great and every game that has gone ffapvp and be mediocre at best is because (insert some random flaw) not because most peopel do not like ffapvp.

Now wait a second, this is -not- designed as a sandbox like the original titles??

Really?

You mean this will be like WoW with a TESO skin? How do we know? Links please I need to read.

Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Now wait a second, this is -not- designed as a sandbox like the original titles??

Really?

You mean this will be like WoW with a TESO skin? How do we know? Links please I need to read.

I gave it to you in another thread, but here:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

There is some bias on that faq, as they soften the blow a little bit, but yes, what you are saying is accurate.

Welcome. 

It's not really WoW, it's more like DAOC 2 with some Guild Wars thrown in for good measure.

Also, they started out saying how much like WoW it is, just when it was announced, then the internet (mostly TES fans) told them to go fuck themselves, and they changed their tune around E3, trying to emphasize all the TES stuff, but don't be fooled, it's just marketing spin.

After E3, when most crtitics and news outlets were either angry or unimpressed by their E3 presentation, they have been all but silent.  Heads in the sand, boys!

QUOTE:

"The Elder Scrolls Online cannot use the same real-time combat model that has been a feature of recent TES games. There are important technical reasons why this is not feasible, ranging from network latency to client security and cheating prevention. In order to preserve as much of the real-time “feel” as possible, the game’s combat focuses around the opportunistic use of a stamina bar which allows the player to sprint, block, interrupt, and escape crowd control. By selectively using these strategic abilities, combat in TES:O feels dynamic, despite adhering to turn-based fundamentals which are critical to MMO design. All classes have access to block, sprint, and crouch."

Basically they outright lied and said FPS combat was impossible in an MMO.  Meanwhile: Darkfall, Planetside 2, Mortal Online, etc...

TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world.

They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.

FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.

6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.

Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.

Originally posted by MercArcher

TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL

 

They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.  LOLOL

 

FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.  ROFL

 

6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.  LMFAO

 

Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is. ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES

1)  Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them.  Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like.  This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.

2)  Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view.  They've said nothing about combat.  It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage.  Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever.  Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode."  It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.

3)  Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body.  The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant.  They could be players too, doesn't really change anything.  Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.

4)  I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities.  No, I KNOW you are.

5)  This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by MercArcher

TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL

 

They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.  LOLOL

 

FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.  ROFL

 

6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.  LMFAO

 

Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is. ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES

1)  Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them.  Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like.  This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.

2)  Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view.  They've said nothing about combat.  It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage.  Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever.  Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode."  It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.

3)  Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body.  The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant.  They could be players too, doesn't really change anything.  Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.

4)  I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities.  No, I KNOW you are.

5)  This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.

1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.

2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.

3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.

4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...

5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.

Originally posted by MercArcher

TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world.

 

They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.

 

FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.

 

6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.

 

Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.

I don't know should I cry or laugh..

I'll just do both.

Originally posted by MercArcher

3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.

Oh god..

Originally posted by MercArcher

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by MercArcher

TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL

 

They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.  LOLOL

 

FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.  ROFL

 

6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.  LMFAO

 

Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is. ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES

1)  Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them.  Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like.  This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.

2)  Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view.  They've said nothing about combat.  It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage.  Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever.  Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode."  It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.

3)  Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body.  The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant.  They could be players too, doesn't really change anything.  Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.

4)  I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities.  No, I KNOW you are.

5)  This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.

1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.

 

2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.

 

3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.

 

4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...

 

5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.

1)  Quest chains are not level-dependent.  Any miscellaneous quests you can start at any time, go anywhere, and you can get to Dagoth Ur in Morrowind in about 20 minutes of playing.  You will likely die, but you can get there.

2)  I didn't call it "vanity mode," the lead designer of The Elder Scrolls, Todd Howard, did.

3)  Do you realize that it has been done in MMOs before?  Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EVE Online, Mortal Online, Darkfall.  Hell even WoW has PvP servers.  It isn't technically griefing if its part of the game.  You have to be on your toes and watch your back.  Much more exciting and engrossing than the typical care-bear yawn-fest.

4)  But in TESO you don't have to equip such abilites, every time you want to change them like TES, you have a hotbar, much like GW2, that has assigned slots.  It has 3 weapon skills, a healing ability, two class skills and a special.  Nothing. Like. TES.

5)  But nothing in Daggerfall or Arena?  LOL that's sad.  Did you try to play all those hours in Morrowind in 3rd-person?  Did you get that 3rd person improved mod?