Imo for a real elder scrolls online to work the servers have to be small (Unless the world is huge which is doubtful it would ever happen) and this way a combat system better than darkfall or mortal online like mount & blade would work fine and again imo would be really awesome.

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by apocoluster

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

No housing, no player vampires, no player werewolves, no freedom to join the faction you want as the race you want, there's many TES mechanics that seem to be missing.

I am aware however I believe the term "Sandbox" covers most of everything.  This is truly a very sad day and I hope whoever thought to destroy what makes TES such a great series gets fired.  

 

Don't cater to the masses!  Be bold!  Do something different!

lol says the guy not gambling the millions to develop this game

WoW was a gamble when they first made the game.  So was UO and Everquest.

 

It's better to take a risk and be innovative than re-use ideas that have been done before countless times.

 

right now the only type of MMO type that is missing a AAA product is Sandbox FFA PvP with FPS style combat (EVE is not FPS)

This is because FPS style combat the way you want it to be is not possible.  Technology is not advanced enough yet.  There are too many exploits that are made with such a system.  There is a reason why tab-targetting and hotkeys are the most popular.

 

Darkfall Online / Mortal Online would like a word with you.

 

It is possible.

It's clearly not, as both games still have massive bugs that involve combat.  Flying pigs?  Latency issues?  Warping and lagging through walls of castles and keeps?  It is NOT possible the way that we want it to be.  Is it possible? Sure.  You can design it however you like, but it is not smooth.  Nor is it free of lag.  Nor is it free of glitching and bugginess.  I've played both games, I'm familiar with their combat systems.  They are one of the main reasons that drive players away from the games.

I'm not having this debate here. 

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

Anyone agree?

No housing, no player vampires, no player werewolves, no freedom to join the faction you want as the race you want, there's many TES mechanics that seem to be missing.

and a focus on PvP?

Not for me I am afraid, which is shame because I have played TES games since Morrowind. I won't play yet another borked gear/ lvl based open world effort. If the devs don't ruin them the players always do.

Ah well, maybe one day someone will turn their brain on and realise that there is a massive market for PvE sandbox gaming. But, I guess, if Skyrim hasn't shown them that by this stage I guess maybe not.

Originally posted by Unreal024

Originally posted by Tanon

Originally posted by Unreal024

What your talking about is an open world. Being able to roam freely and do what you want is not a sandbox. It doesn't matter what games people want to label as a sandbox, the very word sandbox implies creation. Therefore, every sandbox game should rely heavily on player created content, something which TES has never done.

Nexusmods says otherwise.

Mods have nothing to do with a game being sandbox, open world or otherwise. Is every game that has a modding community a sandbox? Besides, I'm talking about content creation within the game, as in, that's the point of the game - to create.

 No sir.

Mods were a big part of the sandbox feature.  Before anyone ever made a free form world people made mods and some developers packed an option to play a game in sandbox mode. 

You people keep confusing open ended games like minecraft and simcity with sandbox games like the ES series and UO.  It is a feature of a game, not a game type, and most creation based games like minecraft aren't sandboxes because there is only one way to play them.  If you can not ignore the objective of a game it's not a sandbox.  In a game like Minecraft the only way to NOT follow the objective is to literally not play the game. 

There is only one definition for sandbox, that is any game that allows you to ignore the objectives in the game, and still play it without limitations.  You never have to accomplish anything in an ES game, just like you never have to accomplish anything in UO. 

Sandbox never had anything to do with the ability to build anything in a game world, until the technology was created that allowed developers and moders to create games were you had the ability to do so.  It never had anything to do with what was in or not in a game, only what you could do, ignore the objective of the game and still be able to play it.  XP locking does't turn a linear, open-ended, themepark game like WoW, EQ, or Rift into a sandbox because the game is gated behind levels.  Whether the levels be class based, proffesion based, or gear based, it's all about the levels, and xp locking means content locking and that's counter the idea behind a sandbox.

Before it was ever used to describe a game, it was just a feature or a mode.  Today it's used to diffirentiate between a game that is open-ended, but requires you to adhere to objectives (minecraft, simcity), and a game that is open-ended, but doesn't force you to follow the objectives (ES, UO, GTA).

There is a significant difference, even if it is a subtle one.

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

Anyone agree?

No housing, no player vampires, no player werewolves, no freedom to join the faction you want as the race you want, there's many TES mechanics that seem to be missing.

 

and a focus on PvP?

Not for me I am afraid, which is shame because I have played TES games since Morrowind. I won't play yet another borked gear/ lvl based open world effort. If the devs don't ruin them the players always do.

Ah well, maybe one day someone will turn their brain on and realise that there is a massive market for PvE sandbox gaming. But, I guess, if Skyrim hasn't shown them that by this stage I guess maybe not.

I thought that I read that you can join all factions like in Oblivion.

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Unreal024

I agree somewhat, but I disagree with you on a few things.

 

1. TES series are not sandbox games, so why should an ES MMO be?

 

2. The three faction PvP system sounds much better than FFA.

 

I could care less that it's going to play a lot like your standard themepark, what angers me is that it's doing away with FPV, twitch combat, housing, free form character progression and probably a whole lot more. It could still be a fun game, whether or not I decide to give it a go will depend on a few things, once being payment model.

It is a sandbox. You can go out and do as you wish. You can slaughter a town, take over someones house. The main quest is only a portion of whats there to do.

Sandbox is a virtual world with an assortment of things for you to choose to do when you want to do them. Creating your own content is only one aspect of a sandbox and not an aspect all sandboxes share.

It's nice to see people trying to suddenly declare the TES series a themepark lol.

What your talking about is an open world. Being able to roam freely and do what you want is not a sandbox. It doesn't matter what games people want to label as a sandbox, the very word sandbox implies creation. Therefore, every sandbox game should rely heavily on player created content, something which TES has never done.

It amazes me what people try to label a themepark. No, after all these years the TES series has not magically been reclassified as a themepark lol. Sorry man, you may feel differently but it is called and accepted as a sandbox due to the open world. You may not like it or agree with it but apparently your opinion isn't the widely accepted one.

An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.^[1] Video games that include such level design often are referred to as "free roam" games.

The term is sometimes used interchangeably with "sandbox" and "free-roaming";^[2][3] however, the terms open world and free-roaming describe the game environment itself and allude more to the absence of artificial barriers,^[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way"^[5] of playing the game.

Despite their name, many open world games still enforce restrictions at some points in the game environment, either due to absolute game design limitations or temporary in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.

 

Hell here I'll even give you the above, a wikipedia refference on the matter.

Grand Theft Auto is widely considered a sandbox

UO

TES series

I mean you aren't required to agree but you do need to acknowledge your view on what a sandbox is not the widely accepted one. In accepting that you can see why your comments above are being regarded as incorrect.

I've highlighted in red the 2 most important words in that definition. It says that the terms are SOMETIMES used interchangeably and sometimes for me doesn't mean it's the widely accepted one, then a word like "usually" or "mostly" would be chosen.

And please look up the definition of creative in any diary, the main definition will give something like "the power to create".

So what you're trying to use as "evidence" to back up your personal opinion is actually more of a devaluation of it than supporting it.

I am hoping we at least get a FFA server, if that happens it's enough for me

Originally posted by Evolution8

I am hoping we at least get a FFA server, if that happens it's enough for me

It's possible.  That's how it should be by default in my opinion. 

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Imo for a real elder scrolls online to work the servers have to be small (Unless the world is huge which is doubtful it would ever happen) and this way a combat system better than darkfall or mortal online like mount & blade would work fine and again imo would be really awesome.

For it to really work it would have to be more of a coop/versus set up with no more than 4-10 players per map. Somethign I think that would be interesting is to let your characters you make stay in the world, and the more high level characters you level up the more powerful NPC you have to fight on your side.

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Imo for a real elder scrolls online to work the servers have to be small (Unless the world is huge which is doubtful it would ever happen) and this way a combat system better than darkfall or mortal online like mount & blade would work fine and again imo would be really awesome.

 This is exactly what I thought.  You don't have to have a single world server setup like MO or EVE.  You don't even have to have servers that are designed to house several thousand players.

They could just make it so that each faction caps at something like 1000 players, hell even 500, and have a bunch of servers.  It's really not as expensive as people seem to think, anymore.  It's actually cheaper; it's one of the reasons why F2P is so much more viable then it was 7 years ago. 

Until there is official word on how the game works, it's just a rumor.  The leak could very well be someones most epic troll of a game, ever.  I for one hope so.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Imo for a real elder scrolls online to work the servers have to be small (Unless the world is huge which is doubtful it would ever happen) and this way a combat system better than darkfall or mortal online like mount & blade would work fine and again imo would be really awesome.

For it to really work it would have to be more of a coop/versus set up with no more than 4-10 players per map. Somethign I think that would be interesting is to let your characters you make stay in the world, and the more high level characters you level up the more powerful NPC you have to fight on your side.

As it stands now, I agree.

TES as you know it can't work in a MMO environment.  Thousands of items that you can pick up, not possible.  Hiding and stealth through line of sight and darkness of shadows, not possible because players can see you, pick pocketting and theft, only partially possible and dangerous when trying to attract players.  Being the hero, not possible when everyone is the hero.  FPV and aimed attacks, possible, but again, dangerous when trying to draw people into your game.  Overpowered abilities, not possible because you're playing with other players and it creates balancing issues..  Killing anyone, anywhere, possible.. again, dangerous mechanic to use if not designed properly.  So on and so forth.

I can deal with not being able to pick everything up.  I can deal with not being pickpocketted.  I can deal with vanish in plain sight style hiding.  I can deal with not being THE HERO.  I actually prefer TPV and tab-targetting.  I actually perfer balanced abilities in MMO's.  I also think that they could have a FFA ruleset, as I would prefer that over not being able to kill anyone, anywhere.  There is one thing that I continue to be upset about though.  The exclusion of housing.  It's always been a big part of the TES games.  I don't understand the decision to remove it.  If it is going to added after launch, then I can handle that.  But, if it's a permenent design choice that can not be changed, then I have some serious issues with that.

This game should take 5 years to develop if it is going to be AAA.  In that time they could literally build Skyrim online - thats what they should be aiming for!

  We know now dynamic questing is possible in a mmorg world, its just the tech that needs a couple years to catch up now.  From initial blurb the developrs are certainly not aiming for a Elder Scrolls game, i.e atmospheric, dark, amazing graphics and attempting to present a real living world.

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

It's called Player Policing.  Players can be D-bags... however some players can also be the good guys.  That's the beauty of FFA PvP games... everything lies upon the players to create the rules.  

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

It's called Player Policing.  Players can be D-bags... however some players can also be the good guys.  That's the beauty of FFA PvP games... everything lies upon the players to create the rules.  

LoL, when you get back to leprechaun and unicorn land then we can talk. 

lol player policing *shakes head*, I can't believe people are still try to sell that crap.

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

It's called Player Policing.  Players can be D-bags... however some players can also be the good guys.  That's the beauty of FFA PvP games... everything lies upon the players to create the rules.  

LoL, when you get back to leprechaun and unicorn land then we can talk. 

lol player policing *shakes head*, I can't believe people are still try to sell that crap.

Come on now. If you played UO you know that this happend. I saw bands of blue PKKs all the time. All they did was hunt down red players. Now I'll grant that in newer FFA PvP games like EvE and DF this doesn't happen anymore. It's pretty much bad guys vs bad guys now.

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by Bainwalker

Title says it all.  For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.

 

Anyone agree?

I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing.  Did I have a setting turned off?  FPS not a game breaker for me.  Class based does kind of suck.

With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game.  Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.  

 

If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.

Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot.  So how does this scream ffapvp again?

Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.

That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games..  Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.

 

Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too. 

Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me.  There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.

1 part skill 9 parts level and gear.  I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.

It's called Player Policing.  Players can be D-bags... however some players can also be the good guys.  That's the beauty of FFA PvP games... everything lies upon the players to create the rules.  

LoL, when you get back to leprechaun and unicorn land then we can talk. 

lol player policing *shakes head*, I can't believe people are still try to sell that crap.

It works.  How do I know?  Because I was one of the leaders for a group known as GPS in Darkfall online.  We were feared / loathed trade gankers in the game and we killed literally anything that moved for their stuff.  We had it rough because of our play-style and there were entire guilds created for the sole purpose of keeping GPS under control and patroling NPC areas for us.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

Its unfortunate if the info so far is correct. Taken from here: no twitch combat, there will be classes, levels, hot bars and TPV. There will be fetch and kill quests, phasing, instanced PVP arenas, instanced dungeons and raids.

Some things seem ok, like 3 faction pvp, some public dungeons and random events (like robbery and "random dialouge"?).

Mostly though, it seems like a DaoC and "standard themepark" hybrid, which seems far from anything TES-like.

And from the article that got leaked somewhere:

"The feature finally acknowledges the fact that The Elder Scrolls Online must prepare to face a large amount of criticism, as die-hard fans won’t agree with many of the liberties Zenimax is taking."

No shit?!