Let me relate this to a FPS for a second. Say you play a FPS for a year and because you've been playing it that long, you've gotten this nuke which when you shoot it, explodes all over the map and it kills everything, everywhere, and you win. Yeah it's fun the first few times to see it happen but then what? You're bored.

Wouldn't it be more fun if you killed someone because you had more skill than them? I think so. To me, the people that prefer it the other way are bullies who just want to kill with impunity and then /lol and /spit on their opponent. It's silly and I'm glad that Anet kept it this way.

And to the people who say GW1 is dead, are you serious? The game is still going strong lol.

Originally posted by Depravity44

Originally posted by QuicklyScott
This is what I don't understand about GW2.  Where is the hook - what keeps you playing?  If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months?  When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.

^^^^ I agree with what you say.  YOu get to max lvl and then what?  You already have the best armor level in the game.  You can pvp for fun, but once again there is no reward.

Just for fun? no in gw2 u fight to be the best team in the ladder system, and the best server in WvWvW, you fight to be recognized, you have lots of gear to loot, u can optimize your stats but u should never be able to win because of them, getting gear to look good while we are having fun winning in any type of pvp, is just awsome.

Guild wars 1 is the perfect example of cosmetic items not being fluff. All the armor had the same stats but wearing obsidian/fissue of woe/prestige armor was a status symbol. For a lot of people how you look is a huge part of the game.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Chaos_Gloves

In fact the stats don't matter, how it looks is what matters. Which is why when cash shops sell cool looking items and people call it fluff it urks me. Those could be items obtained in the game.

As far as items having the same stats it's really the best way to ensure PVP is balanced. Otherwise you end up with gear > skill which is not the case with guild wars. You could always grind for that cooler looking status symbol gear.

---

Originally posted by Krimzin
 If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

---

Originally posted by Depravity44
One of my major concerns with GW2 is the possibility that all lvl 80 items will have identical stats.  I was an avid original Guild Wars player and one of my biggest complaints is the fact that I wasn't rewarded for spending hours and hours accumulating items to build high-end Fissure armor.  Yes, the armor looked cool, but it had the exact same stats as (lvl 20) Droknars Forge armor.  So here's the question.  Will my dedication and time be worth the investment in end game dungeons offer better armor that has better stats than other level 80 armor or will it all be the same???!!!!  I really hope I'm not going to spend all these hours in this game just to find out that its a socialist nation at level 80.... :(

The gear will be balanced against other level 80 gear.

So the gear can differ as much as the classes differs from eachother, they are also different but balanced. Well at least in theory right now but they hopefully be at launched.

Balance does not mean identical. And for certain specs you might be forced to get hard to get gear.

But it will never be the same thing as in EQ & Wow, no great advantage for certain gear and no tiers of raid gear.

Maximum overall power yes but not same stats! Some gear will go more into offense, some defense some something between! It's all about build.

Also I would add that if you don't limit gear power Gw2 could never become e-sport it is trying to be.

Originally posted by Krimzin

You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.

No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.

Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..

You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.

"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.

Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

 

Your argument is not the same as what others have posted, your argument is that all gears at level 80 all looks the same, which isn't true. All gear aren't the same look, every dungeon has its own specific gear that looks different than others. Even quest and craft gear all look differently.

Whats the same is Gear doesn't make you one shot your opponents, gears aren't over powered, so stat wise, all level 80's will fight on pretty balanced even grounds.

Thats what others are arguing about, they are saying because My level 80 gear only makes me balanced to your level 80 gear, I am no longer OP, I can no longer one shot you because I am so Uber.

All merchant level 80 gear is pretty normal looking, its when you see someone with huge spikes that you know they beaten that dungeon to get that armor. Are they gonna one shot you with your normal looking gear based on only gear, nope, are they gonna kill you because they are better at the game, maybe.

Thats what GW2 is offering.

Gw2 is not based of an item level ladder.  If armor progress is your form of accomplishment and progression than you might want to look else where as the developers stressed that armor will not be a driving force for end game.

I know GW1 added time trials and the like with world rankings to keep people interested so I would like to mkake the assumption they have those kind of plans to keep *end game pve* fun and exciting.

Personally I have 4 friends so we are excited to build a solid 5v5 structured pvp team and compete there.

Originally posted by Krimzin

You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.

No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.

Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..

You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.

"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.

Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

 

Games have been around alot longer then video games. And just because progression ends does not mean people give up on them. There are plenty of old timers leagues for a variety of games. These guys are no longer progressing even personal skill-wise, in fact they are going the opposite direction, but they keep playing. So there must be something more there then progression. If it just boils down to pure progression I doubt that game will be very successful or fun for that matter. Replayablity is measure by more then just progression. 

Originally posted by Muntz

Games have been around alot longer then video games. And just because progression ends does not mean people give up on them. There are plenty of old timers leagues for a variety of games. These guys are no longer progressing even personal skill-wise, in fact they are going the opposite direction, but they keep playing. So there must be something more there then progression. If it just boils down to pure progression I doubt that game will be very successful or fun for that matter. Replayablity is measure by more then just progression. 

You mean play something just because it is fun?

What a weird idea ;)

Different gear will have different stat allocation and a different look. That's why they have transmutation stones. You may find a great looking piece of gear but want stats weighted toward condition damage because of your skills and talent allocation, so you transmute the stats of one piece on to the other.

People CAN chose to farm gear for those pieces that have their ideal stat allocation OR for that piece of gear that fits into a particular dungeon set or look. Or not. Or you may end up with a PvE set and a WvW set based on stat allocation.

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by QuicklyScott
This is what I don't understand about GW2.  Where is the hook - what keeps you playing?  If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months?  When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.

I started playing chess when I was six.  I'm 41 now and I still play chess.

Why?

Thing is, or at least that's how I see it, when people talk about hook, they talk about wanting to login everyday, thinking of logging in, forgetting about other games for a long time (I am exagerating a bit, I know) and when they say no hook, they mean it's not the kind of game that will capture most of your attention, not in the long run at least. Sure, you can come back at any time and play, or do some WvW when you feel like it, you'll play it from time to time, but that's about it. 

Guessing that's how you play chess too, don't think you play for like 3 hours everyday after work :P.

Have I explored every continent

Have I done every dynamic event

Have I seen every outcome

Have I done all the dungeons and all 4 explorable modes

Have I taken a keep

Have I taken a supply farm

Have I taken a tower 

Have I found every skill point

Have I performed all my story quests

Have you got 100 percent exploration over the entire world? 

Most importantly, have you defeated the undead dragon?  Have you helped free this part of Tyria from its reign? 

Are you seriously telling me, that the only reason you play any game, is for the loot?  The actual game doesnt matter.  You play the game for the opportunity to keep playing the game for the opportunity to keep playing the game.

If the above list  don't get you, then its just not the game for you.  But these things are staples (in some way or form) of RPGs. and at some point, companeis just began making MMOs and forgot about the RPG part.  

I think people have been about as clear as they can be that GW2 is not for people that like to level as quickly as possible to max so they can begin 8 months of loot grind in the same instances until you get a new patch or new expansion then you start all over again.

If people want a gear grind this is not the game for them, but you have plenty of other choices.

Originally posted by dontadow

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by QuicklyScott
This is what I don't understand about GW2.  Where is the hook - what keeps you playing?  If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months?  When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.

I started playing chess when I was six.  I'm 41 now and I still play chess.

Why?

Thing is, or at least that's how I see it, when people talk about hook, they talk about wanting to login everyday, thinking of logging in, forgetting about other games for a long time (I am exagerating a bit, I know) and when they say no hook, they mean it's not the kind of game that will capture most of your attention, not in the long run at least. Sure, you can come back at any time and play, or do some WvW when you feel like it, you'll play it from time to time, but that's about it. 

Guessing that's how you play chess too, don't think you play for like 3 hours everyday after work :P.

Have I explored every continent

Have I done every dynamic event

Have I seen every outcome

Have I done all the dungeons and all 4 explorable modes

Have I taken a keep

Have I taken a supply farm

Have I taken a tower 

Have I found every skill point

Have I performed all my story quests

Have you got 100 percent exploration over the entire world? 

Most importantly, have you defeated the undead dragon?  Have you helped free this part of Tyria from its reign? 

Are you seriously telling me, that the only reason you play any game, is for the loot?  The actual game doesnt matter.  You play the game for the opportunity to keep playing the game for the opportunity to keep playing the game.

If the above list  don't get you, then its just not the game for you.  But these things are staples (in some way or form) of RPGs. and at some point, companeis just began making MMOs and forgot about the RPG part.  

 

Wasn't talking about myself, just trying to give a possible explanation. There are people who do it only for gear, to make their character become more powerfull, because that's what they like. Others do it for gear, maybe without knowing, because they like the slot machine/sort of gambling time kind of deal that comes with not knowing if the gear you want will drop.

Leaving that aside, that list you put up there feels to me like you're asking (maybe not the best example since it's a single player game) if I got 100% sync in Assassin's Creed and if I didn't, I'm not done with the game untill I do, or that I'm not done with WoW, untill  I get all the achivements. Some of the stuff there seems like something that would seem interesting to do, others not so much and don't think the majority feels like doing every single thing before saying that they don't feel like playing a game anymore or are done with a game. Sure you have options, that doesn't mean you'll feel like doing all of them.

As for the gear part, don't feel like it's a good thing or a bad thing, it's just different. In a game you get higher stats and  different looks, in this game you get the same number of stats, but atributed differently and different looks.

Originally posted by Krimzin

You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.

No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.

Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..

You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.

"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.

Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

 

Err.. that is a gear grind. Seriously, take a step back and think. Every hardcore-no-life-plays-80hoursaweek raider has the highest teir gear.. they all look the same. And WHY did they get that gear? so they can do the NEXT raid and get that gear so they can all look alike again. Some people will get it first and strut around with their new LOOKING gear. Take out the stats and raids and replace with hard ass dungeons and gear that just changes stats around. If someone can finnish that dungeon, he will have gear to show off also.

IF you think about it, the difference between a raid and a dungeon is in a Raid, you need gear from the previous raid, and you have to watch youtube to learn when to move. Oh, and you also need x amount of healers, x amount of tanks, x amount of ranged dps, and the rest your fill with whatever. 

For the dungeons in GW2, you need 4 other people that you can work with, and work well. If you expect to get in there, put your left foot in, take your left foot out, put your right foot in and shake it all about while a healer plays whak-a-mole with health bars, well, you will die. You gotta dodge, heal yourself, help heal others, rez, take aggro for a few, and just try to mesh with your party. 

Not saying one way is better then the other (though I do admitt, I am bias because I like what GW2 is selling). If you enjoy the gear treadmill, more power to you... just know this game is not for you and you might as well go away since your voice is NOT changing it, it is just starting an argument (and I think that is known as something).

Originally posted by Skarecrow7

Originally posted by Krimzin

You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.

No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.

Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..

You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.

"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.

Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

Err.. that is a gear grind. Seriously, take a step back and think. Every hardcore-no-life-plays-80hoursaweek raider has the highest teir gear.. they all look the same. And WHY did they get that gear? so they can do the NEXT raid and get that gear so they can all look alike again. Some people will get it first and strut around with their new LOOKING gear. Take out the stats and raids and replace with hard ass dungeons and gear that just changes stats around. If someone can finnish that dungeon, he will have gear to show off also.

IF you think about it, the difference between a raid and a dungeon is in a Raid, you need gear from the previous raid, and you have to watch youtube to learn when to move. Oh, and you also need x amount of healers, x amount of tanks, x amount of ranged dps, and the rest your fill with whatever. 

For the dungeons in GW2, you need 4 other people that you can work with, and work well. If you expect to get in there, put your left foot in, take your left foot out, put your right foot in and shake it all about while a healer plays whak-a-mole with health bars, well, you will die. You gotta dodge, heal yourself, help heal others, rez, take aggro for a few, and just try to mesh with your party. 

Not saying one way is better then the other (though I do admitt, I am bias because I like what GW2 is selling). If you enjoy the gear treadmill, more power to you... just know this game is not for you and you might as well go away since your voice is NOT changing it, it is just starting an argument (and I think that is known as something).

So you both kinda agrees that GW2 ain´t for donkeys?

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Skarecrow7

Originally posted by Krimzin

You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.

No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.

Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..

You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.

"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.

Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

Err.. that is a gear grind. Seriously, take a step back and think. Every hardcore-no-life-plays-80hoursaweek raider has the highest teir gear.. they all look the same. And WHY did they get that gear? so they can do the NEXT raid and get that gear so they can all look alike again. Some people will get it first and strut around with their new LOOKING gear. Take out the stats and raids and replace with hard ass dungeons and gear that just changes stats around. If someone can finnish that dungeon, he will have gear to show off also.

IF you think about it, the difference between a raid and a dungeon is in a Raid, you need gear from the previous raid, and you have to watch youtube to learn when to move. Oh, and you also need x amount of healers, x amount of tanks, x amount of ranged dps, and the rest your fill with whatever. 

For the dungeons in GW2, you need 4 other people that you can work with, and work well. If you expect to get in there, put your left foot in, take your left foot out, put your right foot in and shake it all about while a healer plays whak-a-mole with health bars, well, you will die. You gotta dodge, heal yourself, help heal others, rez, take aggro for a few, and just try to mesh with your party. 

Not saying one way is better then the other (though I do admitt, I am bias because I like what GW2 is selling). If you enjoy the gear treadmill, more power to you... just know this game is not for you and you might as well go away since your voice is NOT changing it, it is just starting an argument (and I think that is known as something).

So you both kinda agrees that GW2 ain´t for donkeys?

For NOW.. just wait till I unveil my bio-engeeniered donkey with oposable thumbs! Fear the donkey stalking YOU in WvW!

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Depravity44
One of my major concerns with GW2 is the possibility that all lvl 80 items will have identical stats.  I was an avid original Guild Wars player and one of my biggest complaints is the fact that I wasn't rewarded for spending hours and hours accumulating items to build high-end Fissure armor.  Yes, the armor looked cool, but it had the exact same stats as (lvl 20) Droknars Forge armor.  So here's the question.  Will my dedication and time be worth the investment in end game dungeons offer better armor that has better stats than other level 80 armor or will it all be the same???!!!!  I really hope I'm not going to spend all these hours in this game just to find out that its a socialist nation at level 80.... :(

Same stats, no. Balanced stats, yes.

For example, in most games you get to max lvl, and you have your base gear. Then there's tier1, then tier2, etc. etc. which all give you an edge over people with lower tiered gear.

In GW2 you hit max lvl, and you have different types of gear that are equally powerful. How does this work?

Some gear will be aimed more towards boosting your health & toughness. Some towards your power and crit. Some towards condition damage. etc. the stats are equal, but varied. A lvl 80 elementalist may want gear that boosts their healing, where as another elementalist may want armor that boosts their damage output. There's versatility there.

The incentive at 80 isn't much different than it is at lvl 1. It's to flesh out your character as much as possible, and make it so that your character is viable for as many different playstyles as you would like. This is of course ignoring the cosmetic / achievment side to the rewards that also come with. It's much more badass to role into battle looking like a warrior from hell, than a dude w/ a tin hat and a rusty greatsword.

Remind me of RIFT's PvP gear system