New post from Jon Peters concernign the melee vs range debate going on and he had this to say:

Hey all. I wanted to talk about this a bit since it is a hot topic here and also on the internets. The intention is that both styles are viable. Certainly right now Melee is more difficult than ranged. There are some things we will try to do to address this, but I think the more you play you would find they are closer than you think.

First what’s already there:
1) Melee does more damage. Melee damage is simply higher than ranged damage across the board.
2) Melee has more control. With a few intentional exception Melee has a lot more control than ranged.

What Melee needs:
1) defensive tools on more weapons, particularly on lower armor professions.
2) ai needs to favor Melee a bit less than it currently does.

What else:
Finally because of the more action based nature of combat Melee needs to be taught better. Effective Melee requires skills that translate over from FPS games which are notoriously harder on casual players. You have to wasd to move, constantly aim with your mouse camera, and hit skills on 1-5.

Some tips:
If you have learned any good Melee tips that you think we should pass on to newer players feel free to post them here. I’ll start with a few tips of my own.

- If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks.

- Melee has a lot of hard hitting skills and good setup. Utility skills Can really help set up big Melee attacks. Bulls charge on warrior, scorpion wire on thief, judges intervention on guardian.

- know when to run. No matter what you are not a tank. You have to move in and out avoiding damage. If you have to soak damage try and bring boons like Protection and Regeneration or conditions like Blindness and the very undervalued Weakness.

Thanks for reading this all. Rest assured we will keep working on this and just keep in mind the subtle differences in GW2 combat that take a while to sink in.

Originally posted by Tayah
Please don't make fun, but which classes are considered melee? I notice even casters use axes and the sort.

No CLASS is melee, but certain weapon sets are.

Melee isn't reference to a class (A warrior can be bow/rifle for example), but to using certain types of weapon sets.

In the beta, it mostly seems more advantageous to use the ranged weapon sets for most classes.

They are also going to be tweaking PvE difficulty according to a post by Andrew McLeod.

"Since there’s a lot of topics and discussions on this, I figured I’d make a post to let you guys know that we’re listening to your feedback on the matter, and there are valid points on both sides of the issue. In general, we’ve been fairly happy with the difficulty of the game in most places. However, we’re still in the process of working on PvE balance, so a lot of things will probably be adjusted and changed in the upcoming weeks. Here’s some of the areas we’re looking into updating:

1. New-player experience: It often takes people a while to get used to GW2 combat and learn to avoid attacks and learn what their skills do and how they work. We’re looking at slowing down the rate in which we introduce different enemy mechanics so that new players have more of a chance to get accustomed to the game.
2. Event scaling: We’re looking at ways to make the scaling on a lot of events work better for large amounts of players.
3. Monster balance: Some enemies are significantly more difficult than others while others aren’t very threatening- we’re working on updating the balance for both of these categories so that there’s a more consistent difficulty level between various enemy types.
4. Individual quest and event balance: Some events and personal story quests can be overly difficult, and we’re looking at identifying these places.

Again, thanks a lot for all the feedback on this- we’re always trying to make the game a great experience, and feedback from you guys on what you’re enjoying and not enjoying helps us improve it."

I am glad to hear that melee is getting a nice boost. Although I think alot of trouble with melee had to do with most of the players not being that skilled, but I still think it is pretty nice cause they do need it.

Jon Peters is a really cool guy. I was watching the AlphaCollective stream this weekend and he came into the stream and noticed the skillful gameplay of AlphaCollective compared to the others who were streaming. He praised them, tweeted about them and then stayed to chat. He answered questions and even came back to jump into some sPvP with the group (he runs a greatsword warrior btw). He also came back the next day and answered more questions. It was a really cool experience.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Tayah
Please don't make fun, but which classes are considered melee? I notice even casters use axes and the sort.

No CLASS is melee, but certain weapon sets are.

Melee isn't reference to a class (A warrior can be bow/rifle for example), but to using certain types of weapon sets.

In the beta, it mostly seems more advantageous to use the ranged weapon sets for most classes.

I was playing melee with my Elementalist, Weapon set: dagger main hand, focus/dagger off hand

It gets even better at level 7 when you can have an alternate weapon set with the ability to switch them out on the fly. This is where the real breakdown between ranged and melee will start to occur due to the fact you can have both and switch between them as needed. I played a little guardian and a lot more necromancer for this beta. I played necro 2nd so I was a lot more familiar with the game by then and had an easier time. I used primarily a 2h staff(ranged) with some AOE ground based attacks. I tried dagger and its good most a lot of the times too, however, as necro your a bit squishier than warrior type classes and it can be difficult to get in range for your attacks before the action is over. My trouble with the dagger setup mainly came from my inexperience, however, and I can think of a lot of ways to bridge that gap and be more formible with a dagger.

In any case there are tons of options for every class and every playstyle with a learning curve on the whole thing. As people get more familiar with everything a lot of the issues will go away.

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

Originally posted by Elikal

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

... if mages and rangers have higher survivability and have an easier time hitting somebody, if they did more damage too, wouldn't they be ridiculously overpowered? <.<

Also, the only cloth type who is really durable in general is the necromancer.  ... and warriors are less squishy if they dodge better.  It's just harder to dodge when you're right in their face.  Part of the problem is people are too used to being a warrior and trading hits face to face, when they need to dodge just as much as the ranged classes do (Dodge away, then leap back in with your range-closing attack, for example)

Being a different type of game doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, it means you're doing it different.  Just might mean it's a little harder for some people to adapt.

Balance problems need to be fixed, of course, but not EVERYTHING is a balance problem.

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

There are no tanks.

Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

Heavy armor does protect you more.

You do have to avoid big attacks.

People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

- If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks.

What does this mean? Can someone translate this for me?

Originally posted by Sunthas

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

- If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks.

 

What does this mean? Can someone translate this for me?

 

Auto-face.

So, if you aren't holding the right mouse button and you have something targeted, it will face you towards the target when you activate a skill. It helps with those people that jump around in circles like thieves and such. I never use it though.

Originally posted by Sunthas

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

- If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks.

 

What does this mean? Can someone translate this for me?

 

It means if you're right clicking to aim with your mouse... you will fire your skill in the direction you're facing.

So he releases right mouse button, which auto targets nearest enemy when he presses the number key to activate a skill, then clicks right mouse button back down so he can go back to looking where he wants.

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

-All classes can be melee or ranged. An elementalist or a necromancer can wield a dagger in the main hand and become melee oriented or a staff and become ranged. On the other hand a warrior can wield a sword and become melee or wield a rifle and become ranged.

-Melee abilities do more damage. Regardless of class choice. That is because being in melee range is not only much more dangerous but also requires a lot more movement.

-Heavy armor, especially when combined with a shield does make you less squishy but not to a point where you can stand there being hit like a punching bag. You have to move in this game. It's as simple as that.

-The combat is brutal and does have certain scaling issues but because it is difficult, it becomes extremely rewarding once you master it.

-Event scaling is implemented but certain events don't scale properly when there is a huge number of players participating.

-They are not squishy like a cloth type. I'm not sure where you got that from but it's plain wrong.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

 

There are no tanks.

Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

Heavy armor does protect you more.

You do have to avoid big attacks.

People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

 

You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

You know it's quite a simple thing, given it has been the rule in about 50 MMOs by now or so.

If you are melee, you must go into close range, and you must follow the enemy. Both things are high disadvantages compared to a character who attacks from a great distance, like a ranger or a mage. To balance this unfair disadvantage of a melee class, the logical thing to do is giving them higher durability, aka armor.

On the other hand, a ranged character is much safer, since he is ranged, and has it much easier to hit the enemy, also since he is ranged. To compensate that, USUALLY you make them more squishy.

So making the melee squishy and a heavy hitter usually only applies to a Thief, who has CC to compensate. Warrior classes are not supposed to do heavy damage nor to be squishy. I don't see how that's so difficult to see. It worked for the last ~30 years of PnP and computer games. For 30 years the idea of games is: if you are a warrior type of class, you don't HAVE to jump and dodge, because you have a frigging platemail! Why go against everything we know that it worked perfectly for decades? Turning that upside down, sounds like trying to re-invent the wheel: a very stupid idea.

Let me get one thing straight, no matter how much you guys think you here are representative, none of us here is! We are relatively strongly dedicated gamers, with much experience and "sufferability". The vast number of average players out there, dies a few times, fails a few times and tosses a game into the corner. Period. People are spoilt, to say it clear, WoW did this and nothing ain't ever going to turn the wheel of time back. That is why all this high nosed "oh you have to get BETTER", "you have to learn to dodge in time" just ain't gonna work. For you, yes. For the majority of the dedicated gamers here. But 90% of all MMO gamers never go to ANY forum, never care about all these things. They enter a game, try it out, and when they are frustrated they "decide with their feet": they go. Comprende? So all this "oh learn the game, if you fail you are stupid" is wasted, entirely and totally pointless. Sorry for sounding rude, but I try to get you guys back to reality. Gamers today have habits and expectations, and nothing makes the masses of average joe and jill more easily pissed off than breaking their habits. I think there are more people who quit a MMO over trivialities lik "M" not opening the map than you think.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

 

There are no tanks.

Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

Heavy armor does protect you more.

You do have to avoid big attacks.

People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

 

You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

You know it's quite a simple thing, given it has been the rule in about 50 MMOs by now or so.

If you are melee, you must go into close range, and you must follow the enemy. Both things are high disadvantages compared to a character who attacks from a great distance, like a ranger or a mage. To balance this unfair disadvantage of a melee class, the logical thing to do is giving them higher durability, aka armor.

On the other hand, a ranged character is much safer, since he is ranged, and has it much easier to hit the enemy, also since he is ranged. To compensate that, USUALLY you make them more squishy.

So making the melee squishy and a heavy hitter usually only applies to a Thief, who has CC to compensate. Warrior classes are not supposed to do heavy damage nor to be squishy. I don't see how that's so difficult to see. It worked for the last ~30 years of PnP and computer games. Turning that upside down, sounds like trying to re-invent the wheel: a very stupid idea.

To balance, they made melee hit harder and the more traditional melee roles absorb more damage in this game.

So... I don't even...

Edit: And why are warriors not supposed to do heavy damage again?

Originally posted by remyburke
Hmmm, maybe this is part of the reason I thought combat as a Warrior was a sloppy mess.

It was not a sloppy mess for me... I found my warrior quite capable in PvP and PvE. There is certainly a much more steep learning curve than playing range. Once it clicks though I found it quite good.