Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Kuppa

Here is what I think is the problem that many people see with the animation locks. In all the games you mention, there is no aiming. You just attack whats in front of you or have a target locked on. When aiming is involed it brings that fps feel to it, and when have you seen an fps that locks you when you shoot besides the horrific RE5??

If combat was not aim based then I see your point but its aim based and especially for ranged classes getting locked in animation just does not feel great. Albeit I really like the combat but it feels less action oriented because its more akin to RE5 than those games you mentioned.

The "aiming" is just the same as me pointing my left joystick towards the enemy in Ninja Gaiden 2.

 

If you can turn a mouse as well as you can point a joystick (I think most people can do this) then there is no issue.

I don't know if I explained myself very well. In Tera, specifically with ranged classes, you are essentially shooting like an fps. In those action games you mention you rarely use ranged weapons or attacks and when you do you are locked into a target, there is no aiming. So Tera's ranged classes give you the exact same feel as shooting in an fps and the animation lock just bogs down the whole thing. Exactly like RE5...

I can see this as a valid complaint. Perhaps if they let the MP builder attack at least be able to be shot on the run (because it does little damage) it might work out.

Originally posted by legendair

The game is an Oxy Moron... know what that is?  This is Tera, "Its a true action mmorpg but with animation locks." LOL... all I can say...

 

P.S If you consider button smashing a form of art or elitism or better yet... consider it a skill only a few have... I can tell you I am handicapped (I am being serious) you need to get your priorities in life straight regardless of your age.

10 posts in the recent DAY bashing Tera. I guess Action Games are just not your type, its understandable, some games are just too hard for some people.

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Without Action Lock, you would see people running in circles all day jumping up and down like retarded rabbits. 

I would rather have to choose when I use action lock attacks, and if I make the incorrect choice I pay for it. Much more skill involved than kiting / running around in circles.

Well just look at the complaints about GW2 right now.

 

Apparently, Melee is horribly underpowered because the Ranged can... wait for it... kite without consequences.

 

Basically everyone on GW2 forums are complaining how Melee are very underpowered in PVE especially because they are eating all the massive boss attacks while Ranged just does the YMCA in the back.

Guardian has a shield that lasts o say 10's that reflects back all damage, including cc and roots... Assasins can dissapear and crit heavily while mesmers can mitigate damage.  You  have to be really horrible at pvp not to be able to take down a range... wow... the pvp is quite balanced give or take a few bugs...

Originally posted by Panther2103
Without any animation lock, the ranged classes would be completely over powered. Actually for that matter every class would end up going nuts and it would just be whoever could mash the buttons and run around the fastest. People would just do circles around eachother in hopes the other wouldn't be able to hit them. It would be stupid. The class I'm playing the berserker, wouldn't make any sense without animation locks. Oh they swung a giant axe? Well they can definately keep running while doing that skill.

Possibly but I wish the animation lock didn't feel like I was giving up control of my toon everytime I pressed it.  The system just doesn't flow well to me and feels clunky compared to those games the OP referenced.  That and having a animation lock tied to the command pet to attack ability just seems stupid. 

Vindictis combat feels much more action orinented than Tera IMO.  Not saying Vindictus is a better game as it has other issues just the combat flows better.

Originally posted by RebelScum99

Originally posted by Kuppa

Here is what I think is the problem that many people see with the animation locks. In all the games you mention, there is no aiming. You just attack whats in front of you or have a target locked on. When aiming is involed it brings that fps feel to it, and when have you seen an fps that locks you when you shoot besides the horrific RE5??

If combat was not aim based then I see your point but its aim based and especially for ranged classes getting locked in animation just does not feel great. Albeit I really like the combat but it feels less action oriented because its more akin to RE5 than those games you mentioned.

Actually it's because of the aiming that animation lock makes the MOST sense.  This is a game where bosses normally reserved for dungeons roam around the open world freely.  This is a game where aim matters in both PvE and PvP.  What the animation lock does is provide consequences to every action and strategy to every decision you make regarding your skill use.  In the starter area and first zone, this can be a bit jarring and unsettling because the mobs are ridiculously easy.  But once you start taking on BAMS, or other players in PvP, your decisions in a fight need to matter, and there needs to be a tradeoff.  

Without the animation lock, you could just circle strafe a BAM at will, firing off instant abilties left and right until he's dead, since survival in this game is entirely about skill and not RNG.  Without the lock you could kite a mob around with no fear of ever being touched.  You could spam heal yourself as needed if you are a healer, without having to worry about the BAM closing in on you. Now, to get a self-heal off as a priest, you need to first use a Fiery Escape, to disengage from the target, and also slow it by 70%.  Then, with some distance, a quick self heal and you are back to kiting again, but at the expense of mana and dps, and with a little less distance between you and the mob.

In PvP, without that lock, ranged classes could just spam instant-abilities over and over again at melee while kiting them around until they are dead.  Melee would never be able to touch them. Now, if you want to see what happens to balance in a combat system similar to this with no actual animation lock in place, check out GW2.  Right now, melee classes/roles are completely gimped because of it, to the point of barely being able to survive solo.  And forget about PvP, they have no chance there.  That's what we call imbalance, and that's why the animation lock is in place.  

Again, this is the type of thing that isn't immediately obvious due to the lack of difficulty in killing mobs in the early levels.  It just seems unnecessary at that point.  But trust me, once you get into your 20's and on into the 30's, that animation lock truly brings strategy into your fights. 

You are right in the pve part. In essence because the mobs were built around the animation lock and not the other way around. If they take the animation lock out the mob AI and attacks would need to compensate for that. But this can be done, its just they went for the animation lock route. So, yes with the current mobs it doesn't work. They would have to redo the whole game. The point here is that the animation lock is what drives the mobs AI and attacks, so a combat with no animation lock can be done.

I did check out GW2  And you are completely wrong unfortunately. In GW2 melee classes can 1. do range and 2. close space fairly easy. I played an ele for most of the beta and did ALOT of pvp. I agree that some folk did not know how to manage the range beign melee, but I also so many that did. And everytime I saw a thief or warrior 1v1 believe me I know I had to be at the top of my game to beat em.

Originally posted by legendair

Originally posted by Nevulus

Originally posted by legendair

The game is an Oxy Moron... know what that is?  This is Tera, "Its a true action mmorpg but with animation locks." LOL... all I can say...

 

P.S If you consider button smashing a form of art or elitism or better yet... consider it a skill only a few have... I can tell you I am handicapped (I am being serious) you need to get your priorities in life straight regardless of your age.

10 posts in the recent DAY bashing Tera. I guess Action Games are just not your type, its understandable, some games are just too hard for some people.

And your point is?  I just don't like delusional players defending a game that is going to go f2p... BTW stop creepin on me... that's just wierd... BTW I just joined and obviously Tera caught my interest because its a HORRIBLE game if it's such an amazing game what are you doing reading my old post shouldn't  you be playing it.. There are some damn wierd people these forums sometimes... ugh I am creeped out.

Actually, I think you're creeping everyone else out with your unusually biased opinions. Just my 2c

Originally posted by spikers14

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Kuppa

Here is what I think is the problem that many people see with the animation locks. In all the games you mention, there is no aiming. You just attack whats in front of you or have a target locked on. When aiming is involed it brings that fps feel to it, and when have you seen an fps that locks you when you shoot besides the horrific RE5??

If combat was not aim based then I see your point but its aim based and especially for ranged classes getting locked in animation just does not feel great. Albeit I really like the combat but it feels less action oriented because its more akin to RE5 than those games you mentioned.

The "aiming" is just the same as me pointing my left joystick towards the enemy in Ninja Gaiden 2.

 

If you can turn a mouse as well as you can point a joystick (I think most people can do this) then there is no issue.

I don't know if I explained myself very well. In Tera, specifically with ranged classes, you are essentially shooting like an fps. In those action games you mention you rarely use ranged weapons or attacks and when you do you are locked into a target, there is no aiming. So Tera's ranged classes give you the exact same feel as shooting in an fps and the animation lock just bogs down the whole thing. Exactly like RE5...

I play a sorc, and I currently only use one skill that actually "locks" onto a target...and it can to multiple targets...and I can move while the animation goes off...and still aim toward other things. Other than that, all my skills are aimed...all of them. What should happen when i press fireball for example? Should it jsut shoot out of my butt magically? I prefer that it look as if my character is doing something

??? dont understand your post. You seem to be talking about something else. You can shoot and move, don't understand the problem.....

Originally posted by yononan

Ninja Gaiden series, DMC series, Soul Caliber, Street Fighter, you name it...

 

Practically every triple A action title out since the dawn of man uses this system. Why? Because it takes SKILL.

 

Why does your average Gee Whiz Fanboy hate it? Because it is too hard for them.

You forgot Bayonetta !

completely agree tho, there is a good reason why all those games have animation lock...

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Kuppa

Here is what I think is the problem that many people see with the animation locks. In all the games you mention, there is no aiming. You just attack whats in front of you or have a target locked on. When aiming is involed it brings that fps feel to it, and when have you seen an fps that locks you when you shoot besides the horrific RE5??

If combat was not aim based then I see your point but its aim based and especially for ranged classes getting locked in animation just does not feel great. Albeit I really like the combat but it feels less action oriented because its more akin to RE5 than those games you mentioned.

The "aiming" is just the same as me pointing my left joystick towards the enemy in Ninja Gaiden 2.

 

If you can turn a mouse as well as you can point a joystick (I think most people can do this) then there is no issue.

I don't know if I explained myself very well. In Tera, specifically with ranged classes, you are essentially shooting like an fps. In those action games you mention you rarely use ranged weapons or attacks and when you do you are locked into a target, there is no aiming. So Tera's ranged classes give you the exact same feel as shooting in an fps and the animation lock just bogs down the whole thing. Exactly like RE5...

 I have played Archer,Mystic and Sorcerer up to 20+ and never once felt bogged down as a ranged player. The animation lock combined with escape abiilities makes me have to be smart and strategic with when and where I use a skill. That's the point and beauty of the combat mechanics.

Definately, I do beleieve some people will love this. Nothing in here is fact its just opinions. Im trying to tell him why comparing this to other games he mentioned is not 100% accurate and why some people feel the opposite of the way you feel.

Originally posted by Kuppa

wow, huge generalization there. I played in the beta and that is not even close to my experience. There are some people that don't like it and tbh its not that many. Melee in GW2 can easily close gaps and use other means agaisnt ranged classes especially as you get more practice.

As far as the bosses all classes can do ranged and no its not like a warriors range is limited, it can do just fine until the opportunity to close the gap. I think there is a still a couple of balance issues with some classes though, like thiefs can close space way to well. But at this point its all balance not mechanics.

Not really a huge generalization at all.  There have been countless threads by people on this very site talking about how melee is extremely undertuned, or underpowered.  This has been a common complaint about the game in all of the positive/negative lists.   

Originally posted by yononan

Ninja Gaiden series, DMC series, Soul Caliber, Street Fighter, you name it...

 

Practically every triple A action title out since the dawn of man uses this system. Why? Because it takes SKILL.

 

Why does your average Gee Whiz Fanboy hate it? Because it is too hard for them.

apparently its been a while since you played those games you mentioned. They may have animation lock, but their movement and combat is very flowing and well synchronized with each other. You can evade and block, jump back and forth, chain your attacks and chain both ground and aerial combos together. Those games have a lot more true action combat than what TERA is doing. In TERA , as soon as you start swinging your weapon your stuck in the middle of nowhere with a heavy locked animation. 1 block or 1 dodge depending on the class you pick just dont cut it. It doesnt take skill to play TERA with so much limited moves because you have little choices.

After playing betas i do accept that They implemented their own system well for what it is, but it is nowhere near true action combat. RIght now i think only the graphic visuals are the reason i would buy this game, but graphics only arent enough to purchase.

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Kuppa

Here is what I think is the problem that many people see with the animation locks. In all the games you mention, there is no aiming. You just attack whats in front of you or have a target locked on. When aiming is involed it brings that fps feel to it, and when have you seen an fps that locks you when you shoot besides the horrific RE5??

If combat was not aim based then I see your point but its aim based and especially for ranged classes getting locked in animation just does not feel great. Albeit I really like the combat but it feels less action oriented because its more akin to RE5 than those games you mentioned.

The "aiming" is just the same as me pointing my left joystick towards the enemy in Ninja Gaiden 2.

 

If you can turn a mouse as well as you can point a joystick (I think most people can do this) then there is no issue.

I don't know if I explained myself very well. In Tera, specifically with ranged classes, you are essentially shooting like an fps. In those action games you mention you rarely use ranged weapons or attacks and when you do you are locked into a target, there is no aiming. So Tera's ranged classes give you the exact same feel as shooting in an fps and the animation lock just bogs down the whole thing. Exactly like RE5...

I can see this as a valid complaint. Perhaps if they let the MP builder attack at least be able to be shot on the run (because it does little damage) it might work out.

BTW I also know many people love it as it is, its just opinion. But I do understand why some people feel the opposite about Tera's combat.

Originally posted by RebelScum99

Originally posted by Kuppa

wow, huge generalization there. I played in the beta and that is not even close to my experience. There are some people that don't like it and tbh its not that many. Melee in GW2 can easily close gaps and use other means agaisnt ranged classes especially as you get more practice.

As far as the bosses all classes can do ranged and no its not like a warriors range is limited, it can do just fine until the opportunity to close the gap. I think there is a still a couple of balance issues with some classes though, like thiefs can close space way to well. But at this point its all balance not mechanics.

Not really a huge generalization at all.  There have been countless threads by people on this very site talking about how melee is extremely undertuned, or underpowered.  This has been a common complaint about the game in all of the positive/negative lists.   

You don't understand what a generalization is do you?

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by legendair

The game is an Oxy Moron... know what that is?  This is Tera, "Its a true action mmorpg but with animation locks." LOL... all I can say...

 

P.S If you consider button smashing a form of art or elitism or better yet... consider it a skill only a few have... I can tell you I am handicapped (I am being serious) you need to get your priorities in life straight regardless of your age.

 

 

Ninja Gaiden series, DMC series, STREET FIGHTER, SOUL CALIBER...

 

 

 

So, if you think Tera is NOT an "action" mmo because it has "ACTION" combat mechanics (as I've stated above), then I can't help you.

Those titles are not MMO's and certainly not even RPG's.  Unless I am mistaken Tera is a MMORPG and not a MMOAFG (Action Fighting game).

I do not care if it is more skill ful, it makes the combat more boring, more stagnant and more clunky.  Remove the action lock and sacrifice "some" skill for more realism and fluidity and you might gain more then a few hundred k sub numbers otherwise Tera will be a niche title at best.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

Those titles are not MMO's and certainly not even RPG's.  Unless I am mistaken Tera is a MMORPG and not a MMOAFG (Action Fighting game).

 

I do not care if it is more skill ful, it makes the combat more boring, more stagnant and more clunky.  Remove the action lock and sacrifice "some" skill for more realism and fluidity and you might gain more then a few hundred k sub numbers otherwise Tera will be a niche title at best.

And thus we are at an impasse.

It makes the combat more exciting, more tactical and more elegant.

Originally posted by Kuppa

I did check out GW2  And you are completely wrong unfortunately. In GW2 melee classes can 1. do range and 2. close space fairly easy. I played an ele for most of the beta and did ALOT of pvp. I agree that some folk did not know how to manage the range beign melee, but I also so many that did. And everytime I saw a thief or warrior 1v1 believe me I know I had to be at the top of my game to beat em.

Not sure you understood my post.  I am referring specifically to "roles" in regards to GW2, not classes.  GW2 is unbalanced atm...there is no getting around that point.  And you illustrated that point by discussing the melee classes being able to switch to ranged with a weapon swap.  And that is EXACTLY what happened during this weekend.  Classes like the warrior and thief found it much easier to survive in PvP by switching to their ranged skills.  That's a game that isn't properly balanced.  Again, I'd direct you to any of the number of threads discussing this very topic on the GW2 forums.  It is an issue right now, and even though people are complaining about the melee roles being undertuned, I think it has more to do with the combat mechanics than anything else.   Specifically that there are no consequences in battle for GW2.  Just spam away and bunny hop to ecstasy.

Originally posted by yononan

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Without Action Lock, you would see people running in circles all day jumping up and down like retarded rabbits. 

I would rather have to choose when I use action lock attacks, and if I make the incorrect choice I pay for it. Much more skill involved than kiting / running around in circles.

Well just look at the complaints about GW2 right now.

 

Apparently, Melee is horribly underpowered because the Ranged can... wait for it... kite without consequences.

 

Basically everyone on GW2 forums are complaining how Melee are very underpowered in PVE especially because they are eating all the massive boss attacks while Ranged just does the YMCA in the back.

Obviously you havnt played GW2 so sont speak of stuff you know nothing about.  Melee is not underpowered because of what you describe, melee is "slightly" underpowered because champion mobs are hard.