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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 is apparently PayToWin based on this video... :(

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245 posts found
  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

5/01/12 1:09:51 AM#161
Originally posted by Kalfer
Originally posted by Hurvart

Personally I refuse to play any game with a advantage cash shop. XP-potions, Crafting potions, Faction Potions, Resurection Potions, Travel potions, stat boost books and so on....  It could be anything.

If its any type of advantage that saves time I think its bad. And there is no way I will play that game. Ever. It really makes no difference if you can grind and find the items when you play. If anything it makes it worse, IMO. From my POV its just a credit cards online competition. Or a pay to win fest...

If someone is higher level, have better gear, can do things I cant do because the person payed for it it makes me upset. And I think its unfair. I just dont like it when it works like that. There is no way I can have fun playing a game like that. And I play games to have fun.

Everything is inherently unfair.

 

It's unfair that someone else can play longer than me and get more gold. I play games to have fun and for recreation, but I can't dissolve my real life to keep up with someone in game who gets stronger and more stuff than me because he spends more time. If I could I would even the playing field, but it's unfair.

It's unfair that some people share accounts to become more efficent, it's unfair some are closer to the servers and get less ping, it's unfair that some people buy in-game gold from asian gold farmers, it's unfair that someone grinds and becomes stronger economically thus forcing me to do the same if i want to be as efficent.

 

 

Do you see my point? What does all these reason have to do with your principle. That's what I would call it. You have a stance of something because of a principle. A principle you don't seem willing to be open minded about. In your post you make no effort to see the other point of view, the upsides to it, or why some might even like it.

But most of all, and this is my main point - What all these arguments about fairness ultimately is, is maps in our heads. Synapses that make up our own reality. Fair and unfair are not universal concepts. I think people who let themselves be stigmatized by things and other people being unfair, will become incredible bitter.

 

Instead, my suggestion to you would be to be strong - Be proactive instead of being a victim of what other people chooses to do and spend their time on. It does not affect you. It's not your money they are taking. They are not taking anything from you, you didn't already have. Your capacity to have fun is already endless. You can play in the sandbox too. Just because some of the other children get a bit more sand added to their sand castles, does not take it away from yours. You will build your castle too, and it can be majestic.

So why choose not to play, because you are so stuck up about your own principles on what is fair and what is unfair? Your choices are being externally affected by others than yourself, and that is bad. This is not even related to GW2 but life in general. People who have problems in real life, often blame everyone else - It's their boss, or because they don't have that nice car, or because they don't have a girlfriend, or because it's a recession, or because their parents raised them poorly. They got excuses and "that's unfair" arguments about everything. 

I am not a psychologist, and I don't you, but I truly believe from the depths of my heart sir - That you will end up losing, if you keep with this thought pattern. 

Nobody here in this thread. On this forum desires a pay 2 win cash shop. Most of us are vigiliant. For sure. We know that things can spiral out of control, but we also are reasonable. We see the need for it. We decide that putting the money in the hands of ArenaNet is better than Asian Farmers. We could have a long discussion about how many people really use asian gold farmers and what truly is the biggest evil, but I doubt any of us would be able to come up with conclusive evidence contra the GW2 model.

Because the game ain't finished.

I am optimistic, because I played GW1 for 7 years, and while people also complained about time luxury features - more character slots, more bank, mercenary heroes, skill unlocks. They never went away from their promise. Still to this day, you dont need the expansion packs to remain competitive. They never shoehorned you or forced you to buy all sorts of products to keep up. They never compromised the competitive PvP.

And I don't think they will in GW2. I think WvW is a different beast. I think it's inherently imbalanced. But I also think that if people will use gems to buy hundreds of siege equipment and buy 2 win, like theory says, that they will make changes to how you aquire them. perhaps add the need for karma or glory or something else to buy them combined with gold, thus removing the ability to just be able to buy them no questions asked. maybe they will increase drop rate in WvW, making them not needed to buy because they are so available.

I play games to escape from reality. Money and the fact that you must pay for things that you need or want IS reality. I have to deal with that in real life. But in a game and in its virtual world it can be different.

Everything you have in the game should be earned in the game. This is my principle. I also think there should be a level playing field. But that is less important. I just want to be able to forget money and real life when I play games. But CS and RMT makes it difficult to forget. For me that means less fun. And its not really because I cant afford to buy items in a CS. I have enough money for that.

Other peoples POV can be as valid as mine. But its my money and my time. I am playing games to have fun.

You should respect other peoples principles. Even if you dont agree. That is important.

  MMO_REVIEWER

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 374

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. let it take us in new directions

5/01/12 1:31:56 AM#162

I'm starting to think that the OP has no steady stream of logic to begin with. So I will try to lay this out as plainly and as simply as I possibly can.

I've played the beta, I've seen the cash shop and I can personally say there is absolutely nothing there that can even remotely be considered pay2win.

Let's begin:

The exp boost seems to be the thing that you are lingering over. Lets lay this out for you...

Lets say you and I are playing together. You decide "i'm going to buy this exp boost from the shop..." and I say "cool story, bro". Now I should explain to you how the exp boost works. It ONLY affects the experience gained while KILLING MOBS. So with that in mind let's continue. You buy your exp boost and begin your grind. I, on the other hand, go out and do some exploring. Let me note here that the mobs in gw2 give very little experience. At level 10 I needed a few thousand experience to reach my next level and mobs were giving me around 20-50 experience per mob. Add 50% to that and thats  30-75 experience per mob...

following me so far?

So you kill your mobs getting, lets say...50exp per kill, While i go explore. I find a way point and it gives me 300exp...and yes this does happen in game. I've gone up an entire level before simply from exploring. So now...lets say it takes you 30 seconds to kill a mob. Thats 2 mobs a minute, 120 mobs an hour. A total of 6000exp per hour at a rate of 50exp per mob.

Now back to my exploring. lets say every 5 minutes i find a way point and it gives me 300exp. Let's also not negate the points of interest that give about 100exp each. So lets also say that i find 2 points of interest every five minutes...a total of 500exp per 5 minutes. *pulls out a calculator* 60(minutes) divided by 5(minutes) is 12. 12 five minute segments in an hour...times 500exp..

equals 6000exp at a rate of 500exp per five minutes...for an hour. Shocking I know.

"So wait, what youre saying is that buying that exp boost really wont give me an advantage at all?" YUP. That's exactly what I'm saying...

So continuing on. We got to your comments about trading gems for gold. Let me first go by saying this:

You have to get out of this mindset of Gear > all. WoW has put the entire MMO market up to this and its time for that to change.

The gear in guild wars 2 -doesnt exactly "not matter"- but it doesn't give you the massive advantages that it gives in most other MMO's aka WoW, Aion, Rift, Tera, etc. Guild Wars is designed so that no matter what your gear is you can fight on a 'somewhat' even playing field with anyone. What matters in these encounters is your skill as a player. I know this is somewhat of a new concept to many recent MMO adopters. But you actually have to be skilled with your class and kind of -sort of know what you're doing. Most gear in Guild wars and Guild Wars 2 is purely cosmetic. In Guild Wars 1 the obsidian armor was the most sought after set of gear in the game for a while. Why? you might ask...because it looked realy cool. The stats of the armor were the same as the stats for any other  level 20 armor. It was the fact that it looked so cool that had people raving over it.

So sure you can trade your gems for gold - but will that gold really give you an advantage? Is having a fatter wallet really that big of a deal to you? To me this sounds like a childish gesture. "That guy has more money than me! That's so not fair! I want alot of money too!" ...or more simply put "Billy has strawberry ice cream! I want strawberry ice cream too!". The same can be said for the exp boost "Bill is going to get to sarah's party 20 seconds faster than me. That is unfair! He will get to look at the cake 20 seconds before I do!" Will you still get to see the cake? "YES! but bill will see it first!!!!"

Your argument here will be something like "This means that players will have a level advantage in PvP" and you might even go so far as to mention "Players who arent that high level might not have all of their skills slotted yet.."

albeit this might be true in some cases... this doesn't present an advantage. Even though you may have 1 more skill than another person...it is not the fact that you have that skill that will matter here. It is your ability to effectively USE that skill in the proper situation. Because that guy with a concise skill set just might kick your arse...because he knows how to weave his skills together in a fashion that works for him. And I'd be willing to wager that he might be more skilled than you with his class and know what he's doing. He might even have a better handle on the game mechanics than you do. Those things will far outweigh the fact that you are actually level 80 and he's really a level 40...Even your gear wont play a huge factor in this. Granted you dont want to go around naked, but It wont be so huge that you will say "that guy must have the greater flame-sword of superior arse kicking +10"..because even if he does...it wont mean a darn thing. You will still be able to kick his arse +10 shiny weapon and all.

Now we come to the karma booster. So lets do some math here. Lets say again that you buy said Karma booster...And I tell you "cool story, bro". Lets say you do a couple dynamic events....hmm we'll say each one takes you 10 minutes to complete and you gain 30 karma each while everone else gets 20(50% more karma). During which time you are concentrated on killing the bandits as they come and raid the farm...well good for you. You pew pew those pesky bandits! Now let's say I do the same events, getting 20 karma each. But i concentrate on reviving fallen players and laying down buffs for everyone...playing the good 'ol support role. each person you help up gets you around 2-5 karma instantly. So if i revive say 20 people during that event, which is completely feasible, at a rate of 3 karma per person. That's 60 karma plus the 20 i got from the event. That makes 80 karma to your 30...Even if I only revive 2 players at a rate of 5 karma thats still 30 karma to 30 karma...

So you see...the boosts can easily be negated by spending time...and not even a lot of time. Just a small amount of time exploring. Or alittle care taken to help out your fellow players can get you the same and in some case more rewards that what the boosts will offer.

The lats thing to point out is your argument that the gems trading system is practically gold selling. Now gold selling is a horendous act that crushes many MMO's...not realy. it's not so much the gold selling that kills it its the players that buy the gold and the gold sellers who advertise CONSTANTLY in the games chat.

Now what guild wars 2 doesnt do...is sit in the local channels and remind you to go pick up some gems and trade them in for gold. It doesn't force you to buy gems or suffer the wrath of arenanet. Nor does the game tell you that you can't play unless you purchase atleast x amount of gems. You don't have to buy gems...now you could say here "you dont have to do anything in a game...its all about the fact that you can" and sure this may be true...but the thing is. It's a game. If someone wants to pick up some gems...then sure they have the freedom to. if someone else doesn't want to but instead wants to explore for an hour to get the same experience youd get from killing mobs in the same amount of time...then hey, they have that freedom as well. The other thing is that the gold isn't being sold by some third party that will steal your account information and potentially charge your account for 1000's of dollars stealing all your bank info and other dastardly do's. The gold is, indirecly being sold by ....well you. You yourself are the gold seller. How? You are purchasing the gems and then selling those gems to 'the system' for gold.  You could argue that this will cause inflation. How? if the gold isnt being circulated...then how is it going to raise any prices. At most, IF you purchase any gems to trade in for gold, then you will likely be doing so to purchase something for yourself. Maybe an armor piece that youve been wanting for ages...So the gold goes in a small circle. in other words the rest of the world probably doesnt even know that your little transaction even occured.

If the gold were cycling out into the market then i could see the prices sky rocketing. But not the case here.

So the majority, if not all, of your arguments are here-by invalid.

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

5/01/12 1:57:25 AM#163
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

Your logic is flawed.

You assume like everybody else that makes this case that people that pay for advantages are sub par-players. This is a false assumption. There will be some that aren't as good to be sure. However the vast majority will be as good as you  and a few more will be better.

The gear in GW2 does matter. You could see this in beta. You even had a gear score beside your level.

Using the Cash shop is obviously an advantage. It was designed this way. It would be redunant if it wasn't. They even have built in inconviences in GW2, so you can pay for covenience items. You have to pay for more bag slots, character slots and bank slots. There is also an item to get dyes instantly instead of waiting 24 hrs.

GW2 is a great game but that does not mean it is without flaws.

  MMO_REVIEWER

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 374

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. let it take us in new directions

5/01/12 2:07:30 AM#164
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

Your logic is flawed.

Edit: also, how can someone's logic be flawed? hand me a book That says "this is what logic is, was, and always will be. Compare the logic of others to this and this alone." ...and before you say anything no i didnt say the OP's logic was flawed. i only said "he has no stead stream of logic" meaning his logic was hard to follow and very very confusing. Just because my logic doesn't match yours...doesnt mean its flawed.

You assume like everybody else that makes this case that people that pay for advantages are sub par-players. This is a false assumption. There will be some that aren't as good to be sure. However the vast majority will be as good as you  and a few more will be better.

Not assuming that all cash shop users are terribad, just pointing out that there is nothing in the cash shop that cant be obtained in game with alittle effort, aside from the cosmetic items; which who knows there may be some secret quests to get those as well. Or maybe the mystic chests will drop them.

The gear in GW2 does matter. You could see this in beta. You even had a gear score beside your level.

Never said the gear was completely irrelevant. In fact it can be a big help in some cases. But what I am saying is that it's not WoW syndrome. Where someone will look at your gear and deny you access to their group for the ascalon catacombs dungeon - simply because your gear isnt all +10. It's like how in Aion people would deny you access to their dredion groups because you didn't have a full set of PvP gear. Yes the gear matters to an extent, but not so much so that you will be handicapped for being undergeared.

Using the Cash shop is obviously an advantage. It was designed this way. It would be redunant if it wasn't. They even have built in inconviences in GW2, so you can pay for covenience items. You have to pay for more bag slots, character slots and bank slots. There is also an item to get dyes instantly instead of waiting 24 hrs.

Will having fewer bag slots give me less health? Will it cause me to do less damage in PvP? Will i walk slower or have longer cooldowns because my bag is full? No? oh...my I thought that having a bigger bag would give me advantage over the guy standing next to me. Yes it's an inconvinience, but in no way does it give an advantage.

GW2 is a great game but that does not mean it is without flaws.

It is indeed a great game and it does have it's flaws. But let me remind you....and everyone else. Though this phrase has been beaten to death "THAT WAS A BETA" It is likely many many many things will change.

 

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

5/01/12 2:09:44 AM#165
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

Your logic is flawed.

You assume like everybody else that makes this case that people that pay for advantages are sub par-players. This is a false assumption. There will be some that aren't as good to be sure. However the vast majority will be as good as you  and a few more will be better.

The gear in GW2 does matter. You could see this in beta. You even had a gear score beside your level.

Using the Cash shop is obviously an advantage. It was designed this way. It would be redunant if it wasn't. They even have built in inconviences in GW2, so you can pay for covenience items. You have to pay for more bag slots, character slots and bank slots. There is also an item to get dyes instantly instead of waiting 24 hrs.

GW2 is a great game but that does not mean it is without flaws.

The gear only matters in PvE. It can also be acquired with gold, which is going to be cheaper then buying the gear with gems because the gem value will be determined by the gold value, not the other way around. If someone undercuts someone on an item for gold, the value of that item in gems goes down. The market for these items will continue to constantly change whereas the market for gems will largely stay the same due to the limited nature of the items in the shop. Cosmetic gear is only wearable out of combat, the consumable buffs to exp are minor if not a waste of gems, the mini pets are cosmetic, the list goes on.. Ultimately if you are looking to buy gems and get gold with those gems, it would be better for you to just spend the gold since the item you buy with that gold may end up having been cheaper then buying the gems first due to the market of gold changing far more drastically then gems. This is not to mention that the gem prices will fluctuate drastically based on demand, and since there is little demand for the items in the cash shop, the value of gems will be considerably lower. 

Not sure where you get "built in inconvienences", but this is not the case. They give you plenty of space and once you get 16 slot bags you will have even more. Not to mention you can sell stuff on the broker at any time out in the world. Hell, if you wanted to get creative you could bounce items back and fourth between friends and yourself using the mail system for added space. I will give you character slots, but the fact is that you can buy these with gold in game and every other MMO forces you to pay for character slots in a way that does not let you buy them without spending real money. I would say thats a nice bonus. The bank being shared also allows you to simply throw items in the bank and use multiple characters for inventory space.  Also complaining about dyes being limited based on the availability of them in the normal game is the same thing, cosmetic. Clearly not pay to win. That is just grasping at straws...it is like saying the hat will give you an advantage over another player.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

5/01/12 2:18:07 AM#166
Originally posted by Celcius
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

 

The gear only matters in PvE. It can also be acquired with gold, which is going to be cheaper then buying the gear with gems because the gem value will be determined by the gold value, not the other way around. If someone undercuts someone on an item for gold, the value of that item in gems goes down. The market for these items will continue to constantly change whereas the market for gems will largely stay the same due to the limited nature of the items in the shop. Cosmetic gear is only wearable out of combat, the consumable buffs to exp are minor if not a waste of gems, the mini pets are cosmetic, the list goes on.. Ultimately if you are looking to buy gems and get gold with those gems, it would be better for you to just spend the gold since the item you buy with that gold may end up having been cheaper then buying the gems first due to the market of gold changing far more drastically then gems. This is not to mention that the gem prices will fluctuate drastically based on demand, and since there is little demand for the items in the cash shop, the value of gems will be considerably lower. 

Not sure where you get "built in inconvienences", but this is not the case. They give you plenty of space and once you get 16 slot bags you will have even more. Not to mention you can sell stuff on the broker at any time out in the world. Hell, if you wanted to get creative you could bounce items back and fourth between friends and yourself using the mail system for added space. I will give you character slots, but the fact is that you can buy these with gold in game and every other MMO forces you to pay for character slots in a way that does not let you buy them without spending real money. I would say thats a nice bonus. The bank being shared also allows you to simply throw items in the bank and use multiple characters for inventory space. 

Gear also matters in WvWvW. If it can be acquired for gold than that strengthens the case for the advantage given by the cash shop. Since you could have a nearly limitless suppply using the cash shop.

If arenanet limits the amount of options, purposefully creating an inconvience. Then offers a solution through the item shop, in the form of extra character slots, bag slots and bank slots. I would say that it is built in inconvience. Many cash shop games work this way.

The whole point of buying gems and trading them for gold. Is so that you can get more gold, than you could or want to farm for. So no you would not be better off to farm that gold for yourself.

  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 709

5/01/12 2:20:11 AM#167

Cosmetic items are a huge advantage.

I know, because i go out of my way to have the best looking character i can. In PvP, people will stop for a split second to check out how cool i look. Thats all the edge i need to waste em.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

5/01/12 2:23:54 AM#168
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

Your logic is flawed.

Edit: also, how can someone's logic be flawed? hand me a book That says "this is what logic is, was, and always will be. Compare the logic of others to this and this alone." ...and before you say anything no i didnt say the OP's logic was flawed. i only said "he has no stead stream of logic" meaning his logic was hard to follow and very very confusing. Just because my logic doesn't match yours...doesnt mean its flawed.

You assume like everybody else that makes this case that people that pay for advantages are sub par-players. This is a false assumption. There will be some that aren't as good to be sure. However the vast majority will be as good as you  and a few more will be better.

Not assuming that all cash shop users are terribad, just pointing out that there is nothing in the cash shop that cant be obtained in game with alittle effort, aside from the cosmetic items; which who knows there may be some secret quests to get those as well. Or maybe the mystic chests will drop them.

The gear in GW2 does matter. You could see this in beta. You even had a gear score beside your level.

Never said the gear was completely irrelevant. In fact it can be a big help in some cases. But what I am saying is that it's not WoW syndrome. Where someone will look at your gear and deny you access to their group for the ascalon catacombs dungeon - simply because your gear isnt all +10. It's like how in Aion people would deny you access to their dredion groups because you didn't have a full set of PvP gear. Yes the gear matters to an extent, but not so much so that you will be handicapped for being undergeared.

Using the Cash shop is obviously an advantage. It was designed this way. It would be redunant if it wasn't. They even have built in inconviences in GW2, so you can pay for covenience items. You have to pay for more bag slots, character slots and bank slots. There is also an item to get dyes instantly instead of waiting 24 hrs.

Will having fewer bag slots give me less health? Will it cause me to do less damage in PvP? Will i walk slower or have longer cooldowns because my bag is full? No? oh...my I thought that having a bigger bag would give me advantage over the guy standing next to me. Yes it's an inconvinience, but in no way does it give an advantage.

GW2 is a great game but that does not mean it is without flaws.

It is indeed a great game and it does have it's flaws. But let me remind you....and everyone else. Though this phrase has been beaten to death "THAT WAS A BETA" It is likely many many many things will change.

 

The beta excuse is getting old and doesn't deflect any criticism. It does not make any points less valid. The whole point of beta is to point out flaws. So they can properly addressed not swept under the rug.

No but the 10%defensive buff will let you take less damage. That is an advanatge. So are the xp boost, crafting boost and karma boost. 

Having a mystic key in the cash shop means that it is designed to drop less frequently than the chests. This is the implication of selling it for gems. Unless you are suggesting that Arenanet are idiots and designed a redundant item for the cash shop.

  MMO_REVIEWER

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 374

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. let it take us in new directions

5/01/12 2:24:53 AM#169
Originally posted by wrightstuf

Cosmetic items are a huge advantage.

I know, because i go out of my way to have the best looking character i can. In PvP, people will stop for a split second to check out how cool i look. Thats all the edge i need to waste em.

You, sir have just gained +5 internets.

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.

  MMO_REVIEWER

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 374

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. let it take us in new directions

5/01/12 2:29:45 AM#170
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

Your logic is flawed.

Edit: also, how can someone's logic be flawed? hand me a book That says "this is what logic is, was, and always will be. Compare the logic of others to this and this alone." ...and before you say anything no i didnt say the OP's logic was flawed. i only said "he has no stead stream of logic" meaning his logic was hard to follow and very very confusing. Just because my logic doesn't match yours...doesnt mean its flawed.

You assume like everybody else that makes this case that people that pay for advantages are sub par-players. This is a false assumption. There will be some that aren't as good to be sure. However the vast majority will be as good as you  and a few more will be better.

Not assuming that all cash shop users are terribad, just pointing out that there is nothing in the cash shop that cant be obtained in game with alittle effort, aside from the cosmetic items; which who knows there may be some secret quests to get those as well. Or maybe the mystic chests will drop them.

The gear in GW2 does matter. You could see this in beta. You even had a gear score beside your level.

Never said the gear was completely irrelevant. In fact it can be a big help in some cases. But what I am saying is that it's not WoW syndrome. Where someone will look at your gear and deny you access to their group for the ascalon catacombs dungeon - simply because your gear isnt all +10. It's like how in Aion people would deny you access to their dredion groups because you didn't have a full set of PvP gear. Yes the gear matters to an extent, but not so much so that you will be handicapped for being undergeared.

Using the Cash shop is obviously an advantage. It was designed this way. It would be redunant if it wasn't. They even have built in inconviences in GW2, so you can pay for covenience items. You have to pay for more bag slots, character slots and bank slots. There is also an item to get dyes instantly instead of waiting 24 hrs.

Will having fewer bag slots give me less health? Will it cause me to do less damage in PvP? Will i walk slower or have longer cooldowns because my bag is full? No? oh...my I thought that having a bigger bag would give me advantage over the guy standing next to me. Yes it's an inconvinience, but in no way does it give an advantage.

GW2 is a great game but that does not mean it is without flaws.

It is indeed a great game and it does have it's flaws. But let me remind you....and everyone else. Though this phrase has been beaten to death "THAT WAS A BETA" It is likely many many many things will change.

 

The beta excuse is getting old and doesn't deflect any criticism. It does not make any points less valid. The whole point of beta is to point out flaws. So they can properly addressed not swept under the rug.

No but the 10%defensive buff will let you take less damage. That is an advanatge. So are the xp boost, crafting boost and karma boost. 

Having a mystic key in the cash shop means that it is designed to drop less frequently than the chests. This is the implication of selling it for gems. Unless you are suggesting that Arenanet are idiots and designed a redundant item for the cash shop.

Or maybe youre just stuck in the mindset that anything in a cash shop is going to give someone an advantage and you'll do whatever you can to come up with a reason to support it.  I'd be willing to wager that Anet could put fluffy teddy bears in the cash shop and youd find some way to say it gives me an advantage.

"those fluffy teddy bears will make players stop in their tracks to look at you and then youll kill them with youre sheer awesome!"

or

"its so fluffy im gonna die!!!"

Point here is that the cash shop is, dare i say it, actually useful and doesnt impede on gameplay. And you're still ignoring the fact that anything in the cash shop can be obtained with a small amount of effort in game. I even did the math for you in my post. What more do i need to do ?

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.

  BeansnBread

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5542

5/01/12 2:30:41 AM#171
Originally posted by Atlan99

The beta excuse is getting old and doesn't deflect any criticism. It does not make any points less valid. The whole point of beta is to point out flaws. So they can properly addressed not swept under the rug.

No but the 10%defensive buff will let you take less damage. That is an advanatge. So are the xp boost, crafting boost and karma boost. 

Having a mystic key in the cash shop means that it is designed to drop less frequently than the chests. This is the implication of selling it for gems. Unless you are suggesting that Arenanet are idiots and designed a redundant item for the cash shop.

You don't know this. You are basically pulling shit out of thin air again.

 

And obviously it is a redundant item. It exists in both the cash shop and in drops and quests in game.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  simmihi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 508

5/01/12 2:31:36 AM#172

Ok, so far the only thing that everyone supporting the cash shop is coming with is "yes, the cash shop brings advantages, but very small advantages, they almost do not matter". Still, if the advantages are that small, why bother having the items in the cash shop? The "small" advantages can be tuned up in the future. Will they be? Noone knows. Yea i know, "they didnt do it for GW1", but they didnt have this kind of items like XP boosts etc. in GW1 either. Looks like they've opened some possibilities here, looks a bit fishy tbh.

Oh, and there's the argument "nothing helps you in PvP WvWvW" - well, you know, it might come as a shock to many people, but not everyone is playing for the PvP WvWvW. Some people love to craft, and their crafts to mean something. Yes, if i have to work to bring my craft up, while others can just powerlvl it from the cash shop, i feel that those "others" have an unfair advantage over me. Everything that someone must work for, while someone else can get it instantly for real money, is seen in my eyes as an unfair advantage which should have no place in multiplayer gaming. LE In what i want from multiplayer gaming, i respect other people's rights to feel in a different way.

I know there's the argument "this will stop gold farmers" - well, first of all, everyone in their right mind knows the risks involved when buying gold. Those risks are huge: either they find their account hacked, or they get permabanned. Most people do not feel inclined to buy gold from fishy sources. The only "improvement" a gold-selling-gold-buying official shop might bring is much more people buying power ingame (even if it's very small advantages, it's still power), because the risks are eliminated.
  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 709

5/01/12 2:33:47 AM#173
I think we should all be more concerned about the environment and the effects of global warming. It will be pointless to talk about all the issues that divide us when it's 300 degrees outside.

 

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

5/01/12 2:36:50 AM#174
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

Snip

Your logic is flawed.

You assume like everybody else that makes this case that people that pay for advantages are sub par-players. This is a false assumption. There will be some that aren't as good to be sure. However the vast majority will be as good as you  and a few more will be better.

The gear in GW2 does matter. You could see this in beta. You even had a gear score beside your level.

Using the Cash shop is obviously an advantage. It was designed this way. It would be redunant if it wasn't. They even have built in inconviences in GW2, so you can pay for covenience items. You have to pay for more bag slots, character slots and bank slots. There is also an item to get dyes instantly instead of waiting 24 hrs.

GW2 is a great game but that does not mean it is without flaws.

I agree. I have some friends that always spend a fortune buying items in the CS if they play F2P games. They do that because they are min maxers and power gamers. If some item in the CS can boost the character or help them do things faster they must have it. They are certainly good players. I guess min maxing power gamers in general are better than average players. Even if there are exceptions...

And people that are prepared to play 14 hours/day are often also prepared to spend a lot of money. Perhaps because they think everything in the game is a competition. And if someone is good at something they feel that they need to be better and are prepared to pay or do anything.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

5/01/12 2:41:39 AM#175
Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER
 

Or maybe youre just stuck in the mindset that anything in a cash shop is going to give someone an advantage and you'll do whatever you can to come up with a reason to support it.  I'd be willing to wager that Anet could put fluffy teddy bears in the cash shop and youd find some way to say it gives me an advantage.

"those fluffy teddy bears will make players stop in their tracks to look at you and then youll kill them with youre sheer awesome!"

or

"its so fluffy im gonna die!!!"

Point here is that the cash shop is, dare i say it, actually useful and doesnt impede on gameplay. And you're still ignoring the fact that anything in the cash shop can be obtained with a small amount of effort in game. I even did the math for you in my post. What more do i need to do ?

You seem to be getting angry. I would say that you might be getting emotional and it is possibly affecting your judgement.

Just because something can be obtained in game, does not mean that the cash shop cannot give an advantage.

Let's take an item that drops very rarely. This item can be bought in the cash shop at any time. The person using the cash shop can have this advantage at all times if they wish. The other person not using the cash shop can only get it when he gets very lucky.

There are 100+ threads on the beta forums criticizing the cash shop.  All of these with minimal trolling. All with possible solutions and suggestions. It's only on these forums that a thread about the cash shop gets attacked with such fury.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

5/01/12 2:44:26 AM#176
Originally posted by colddog04
 

You don't know this. You are basically pulling shit out of thin air again.

 

And obviously it is a redundant item. It exists in both the cash shop and in drops and quests in game.

I do know this. Arenanet would have never designed the Mystic Chest and Mystic Key otherwise. Arenanet could remove this prior to lauch. However this is how it is designed and deployed currently. Any argument to the contrary is just willful ignorance on your part.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4071

5/01/12 2:46:41 AM#177

@ the OP as i aint read all the thread

 

At the end of the day they need to make money so of course they are gonig to put things in the cash shop that will give people an advantage otherwise the cash shop would be useless as not many people would buy that nice green hat that does nothing ...

 

I dont think it will brake the game or anything because of the way GW2 is set up you can literally press a button an pop your max lvl pvping...

I dont like the fact you can do that as I like an RPG to have a time sink but a time sink for a reason.. but thats just me im sure there are tons of people who love it.

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  BeansnBread

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5542

5/01/12 2:49:40 AM#178
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by colddog04
 

You don't know this. You are basically pulling shit out of thin air again.

 

And obviously it is a redundant item. It exists in both the cash shop and in drops and quests in game.

I do know this. Arenanet would have never designed the Mystic Chest and Mystic Key otherwise. Arenanet could remove this prior to lauch. However this is how it is designed and deployed currently. Any argument to the contrary is just willful ignorance on your part.

You offer no supporting evidence to back the claim. Because you believe it must be true, it is true. And then you say if anyone disagrees (or even points out you have no clue), they are being willfully ignorant.

 

It might be the stupidest line of logic I have ever seen.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

5/01/12 2:51:07 AM#179
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by colddog04
 

 

 

It might be the stupidest line of logic I have ever seen.

Why did arenanet create a mystic chest and mystic key? Why not just drop the loot contained inside?

  Jakard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 417

5/01/12 2:51:51 AM#180
I'm confused. Can you actually buy gold with real money?
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