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4/30/12 8:35:27 PM#141
if they didnt offer it in the cash shop someone would just sell gold online anyway
played a million mmo's |
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4/30/12 8:43:48 PM#142
I may be looking for reason to not play, idk. I do know cash for gold aint cool any way you spin it. Buying gold is buying gold. DamonVile- Games built for disposable players are now apparently built by disposable employees. |
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4/30/12 8:44:33 PM#143
The way i see it: RMT will exist (in myriad of ways) no matter what "type" of MMO is it. It only needs to be "successful enough" If you havent bought gold or services till now, you wont need to do it or feel urge to start doing it now. OTOH, those who would use RMT services anyway will now give their money to company that made the game, which, hopefully, translates to better game overall. And, if you really like the game and want to support it, youll throw a bit of money at them and buy yourself that awsome looking bathrobe that your character wanted so much :) So yah, if done right, CS is not really that big a deal, some people dramatize a bit too much. Theres 2 games that pretty much prove it: EvE and LOTRO. |
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Leodious
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/28/06
The best way to travel is by means of imagination. |
4/30/12 8:52:43 PM#144
No, it isn't pay to win. We know basically what's in the shop, and have seen it in action. Nothing there helps you win. You can't be more powerful via anything in the shop. You can't pay for an advantage. "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit." — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman |
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4/30/12 8:55:25 PM#145
Originally posted by bcbully That's a snazzy opinion and all, but as subjective as it is... nuh uh. Here is a spin, it gives gold sellers no footing, so less incentive to steal accounts for stock. If you want to get real technical, when you "buy" a subscription you are essentially buying the option to access everything within the software program including the currency; you just have to grind/quest/etc. for it. And it's not pay to win, how are you going to win with extra gold, throw coins at their eyes? Folks making this claim have no idea how the game works. The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating. |
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4/30/12 11:49:04 PM#146
Personally I refuse to play any game with a advantage cash shop. XP-potions, Crafting potions, Faction Potions, Resurection Potions, Travel potions, stat boost books and so on.... It could be anything. If its any type of advantage that saves time I think its bad. And there is no way I will play that game. Ever. It really makes no difference if you can grind and find the items when you play. If anything it makes it worse, IMO. From my POV its just a credit cards online competition. Or a pay to win fest... If someone is higher level, have better gear, can do things I cant do because the person payed for it it makes me upset. And I think its unfair. I just dont like it when it works like that. There is no way I can have fun playing a game like that. And I play games to have fun. |
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4/30/12 11:56:23 PM#147
Originally posted by Hurvart Dont you think you're overreacting a bit? Do you really think someone that bought and used a 50% for an hour exp potion will have better gear and be able to do things you cant? They are letting you play for FREE forever. Dont you think they should be able to generate some revenue? I havent seen anything on the cash shop, nor do i believe i ever will, that will have any bearing on my gameplay whatsoever. AAA title MMOs cost money...Alot of money.. Recooping development costs with box sales prob do the most for them financially. They may even make a profit. But, there is also the ongoing costs to keep the game going. Servers dont run themselves, they require maintenance, you need programmers, billing staff, customer service, and on and on. They dont work for free. dont fret it, jump in and enjoy the game. |
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5/01/12 12:04:54 AM#148
On the whole gems to gold to gear issue - Tell me why would I want to do it, if more often then not I can get equal or better gear for just playing and getting karma? Karma vendors in 15-25 zone already sell green (master crafted) items. If You just play the game and do the content you will never find yourself in a situation where you don't have level appropirate gear. Never.
On the XP boost - It's somehting I'd neve ruse in game like GW. It pretty much makes you skip content and thus loose on the fun. You get downleveled to range of the mobs in every area anyway so the benefit of being higher level is dimisnihed. Furthermore you already get exp scaled up to your level even in lower zones, so it's not like it becomes more grindy.
On Keys and Chests - I got 3 keys drop during my playtime. Opened 3 chests. Items i got were tonics that morphed me into creatures without attacks, 2 hourly karma boosts, 1 hourly xp boost and higher tier gathering gear (better pickaxes/sickles/etc). Hardly gamebreaking. |
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5/01/12 12:06:47 AM#149
Originally posted by wrightstuf No I prefer the P2P business model. And if it is a true B2P game there should be no CS that sell any type of advantage or convinience item. Its not free if you pay $60 for the game. And if they need revenue they should release more content that you can buy, IMO. |
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heartless
 Novice Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
5/01/12 12:10:00 AM#150
Originally posted by Hurvart So I guess you don't play any MMOs at all? I mean almost all of the P2P ones have cash shops as well.
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5/01/12 12:14:24 AM#151
Originally posted by Hurvart I see, so if its not P2P, then it should be 0 for the game, 0 monthly, and 0 cash shop, but then make you pay for expansions? dude!...sign me up! |
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5/01/12 12:18:16 AM#152
Originally posted by heartless It is sad. But there are very few games I want to play today. I really dont like any CS or RMT. If its only cosmetic items I might be able to ignore the CS. But I will not like it anyway. I want to pay a monthly fee and be able to forget real money when I play. If its true and full B2P it will also be fíne. |
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5/01/12 12:21:06 AM#153
Last known activiy on the TOR forums on this site, 9:30 yesterday, amount of troll topics appearing on the GW2 forums and commented on at the same time, FIVE and thats just today. Sure its just Coincidence. |
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5/01/12 12:25:20 AM#154
Originally posted by wrightstuf No I will pay for the game and for new content. But no RMT or CS. |
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5/01/12 12:28:33 AM#155
Originally posted by Hurvart Everything is inherently unfair.
It's unfair that someone else can play longer than me and get more gold. I play games to have fun and for recreation, but I can't dissolve my real life to keep up with someone in game who gets stronger and more stuff than me because he spends more time. If I could I would even the playing field, but it's unfair. It's unfair that some people share accounts to become more efficent, it's unfair some are closer to the servers and get less ping, it's unfair that some people buy in-game gold from asian gold farmers, it's unfair that someone grinds and becomes stronger economically thus forcing me to do the same if i want to be as efficent.
Do you see my point? What does all these reason have to do with your principle. That's what I would call it. You have a stance of something because of a principle. A principle you don't seem willing to be open minded about. In your post you make no effort to see the other point of view, the upsides to it, or why some might even like it. But most of all, and this is my main point - What all these arguments about fairness ultimately is, is maps in our heads. Synapses that make up our own reality. Fair and unfair are not universal concepts. I think people who let themselves be stigmatized by things and other people being unfair, will become incredible bitter.
Instead, my suggestion to you would be to be strong - Be proactive instead of being a victim of what other people chooses to do and spend their time on. It does not affect you. It's not your money they are taking. They are not taking anything from you, you didn't already have. Your capacity to have fun is already endless. You can play in the sandbox too. Just because some of the other children get a bit more sand added to their sand castles, does not take it away from yours. You will build your castle too, and it can be majestic. So why choose not to play, because you are so stuck up about your own principles on what is fair and what is unfair? Your choices are being externally affected by others than yourself, and that is bad. This is not even related to GW2 but life in general. People who have problems in real life, often blame everyone else - It's their boss, or because they don't have that nice car, or because they don't have a girlfriend, or because it's a recession, or because their parents raised them poorly. They got excuses and "that's unfair" arguments about everything. I am not a psychologist, and I don't you, but I truly believe from the depths of my heart sir - That you will end up losing, if you keep with this thought pattern. Nobody here in this thread. On this forum desires a pay 2 win cash shop. Most of us are vigiliant. For sure. We know that things can spiral out of control, but we also are reasonable. We see the need for it. We decide that putting the money in the hands of ArenaNet is better than Asian Farmers. We could have a long discussion about how many people really use asian gold farmers and what truly is the biggest evil, but I doubt any of us would be able to come up with conclusive evidence contra the GW2 model. Because the game ain't finished. I am optimistic, because I played GW1 for 7 years, and while people also complained about time luxury features - more character slots, more bank, mercenary heroes, skill unlocks. They never went away from their promise. Still to this day, you dont need the expansion packs to remain competitive. They never shoehorned you or forced you to buy all sorts of products to keep up. They never compromised the competitive PvP. And I don't think they will in GW2. I think WvW is a different beast. I think it's inherently imbalanced. But I also think that if people will use gems to buy hundreds of siege equipment and buy 2 win, like theory says, that they will make changes to how you aquire them. perhaps add the need for karma or glory or something else to buy them combined with gold, thus removing the ability to just be able to buy them no questions asked. maybe they will increase drop rate in WvW, making them not needed to buy because they are so available. |
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5/01/12 12:30:43 AM#156
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
ROFL! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? XP Boost in GW2 is NOTHING! It doesn't boost the amount of exp you get from exploring/achievements/hearts/Dynamic Events etc, It only boosts exp on general mob kills.. which pretty much makes no difference. So your wrong on that count.
& yeah, this has been discussed to great lengths, gold is not being added to the system If someone is to buy gems with $ and then sell it to a player for in game gold will not causing Pay to Win.
Very silly OP. |
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5/01/12 12:33:45 AM#157
Originally posted by Fadedbomb First of all, xp boosts only affect kill exp iirc, which is garbage to start with so it would not help much. Level is also highly irrelevant compared to most games, so if you are just trying to rush through the game you are doing yourself a dis-service. The people who rush to the level cap will be sorely dissapointed if they thought the game would change much there. People who have been following GW2 should know that levels don't matter so much. I would be more concerned with the Karma boost, which is really minor anyways and will barely give you a leg up (only in pve) on other players. Don't forget that the only point in the game where your gear matters is in pve, so saying it is pay to win is not true. Unless you consider NPCs competition and completing all the PvE objectives..."winning" there is no imbalance here. Getting gems to buy real gold with does not really matter since you can do it the other way around. The game would have people buying and selling gold anyways for those people from 3rd parties, most people would rather have ArenaNet get that money instead. The value of gold is also not being determined by the value of gems as well, it is the other way around. Gold has a huge player market behind it with varying prices and gems have a limited set of items that people can eventually acquire all of through gold if they wanted to anyways. What that means is that gold will always be more valuable then gems and essentially you would make more money farming for the gold or selling items on the broker for gold. You can only trade gems for gold and vice versa, so you cannot trade gems for items. This means that items will always be priced based upon gold prices, not gem prices. So the gems will probably end up being less valuable to most people then it is worth. |
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5/01/12 12:35:54 AM#158
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
You do realize that this has been known for at least a month, right? I'm surprised you missed that considering it's been all over this site since the CS was announced. From the beginning, Anet has said that you can buy gems for RLC and then covert those gems to in game gold. So, there's nothing new here. This is plainly just another "I hate the Cash Shop!" rant IMO.
So far, from what I've seen of the CS, there's nothing in it that I personally consider Pay2Win (isn't that a pretty subjective term anyway?) so I don't have any issues with it. If, in the future, Anet introduces things I do consider Pay2Win (say, overpowered armour or weapons to use in PvP), then I will definitely let them know!
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for??? Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE! |
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heartless
Novice Member
Joined: 1/05/04
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan |
5/01/12 12:37:31 AM#159
Originally posted by Hurvart The fact is that the industry is changing. Most P2P MMOs already have cash shops and the new ones like TSW are being designed with a cash shop in mind. In other words, they are double dipping with a cash shop and a subscription fee. At least GW2 does not charge a subscription fee, while having a cash shop. Besides that, the game is good with or without the cash shop. If you genuinely dislike the actual game, that's one thing but to completely avoid it simply due to it having a harmless cash shop is silly. Especially since you'll be hard pressed to find a decent cash shop free P2P game at this time.
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5/01/12 12:41:42 AM#160
Originally posted by heartless Completely agreed. P2P game microtransactions are offering the same type of stuff in cash shops they have but making you pay a monthly fee on top of it. Not only is ArenaNet not charging you a monthly fee, but they are also allowing you to purchase everything in the cash shop without paying a cent. |
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