Originally posted by Stekky

 Resouces allow you not only TIME to create but Talent to do so.   

Apparently you did not understand my point. I said its not a "Paramount" factor, and not that it isnt a factor at all. I stated an example to further my point, "Henrick is like cancer to this company, if he is the one calling the shots then even if Activision-Blizzard, SOE, EA, NCsoft, PWE, whatever corporate takeover monsters pump in a billion euros into this game, the game will still suck ass." I promise you this, if you are a millionaire by any chance and donated all your money to SV led by Henrick, Mortal Online will STILL suck. Hell, his dad sure might be a millionaire and see what that state of the game is 2years+ down the line even after all the donation to sonny boy's pet project ;)

 Agreed!

But Henrick NEVER stops spinning his BS. Look at the opening post of this thread. He got no game to sell so he sells you dreams.

 

Crooks and Liars?   Really?  

Yea, really. Beating a dead horse here, but SV charged people who werent subscribed by auto subbing them after the month when the game "launched" and people couldnt cancel their subs since the option to do so on their website was "mysteriously" missing for nearly weeks after the month was done. They double and sometimes even triple charged people just ahead of quarterlies by "accident". And all this thievery started with automatically charging credit cards (which were used to purchase MO months prior to any release) with monthly subs without getting the CC holder's explicit permissions, many who had forgotten about MO were also charged to a game they dint give 2 shits about anymore.

As for the 'Liars' part...need any proof?

 

One of my first pre-release interviews that I remember from IRC was Sebastian saying he was picked up as a modder.     In fact,  most everyone they hired was a intern or just out of school.     The leads were both armchair devs who had enough  of waiting around for the game they wanted.    The interest was ALWAYS around the game concept not some dreamteam staff.     

Im a modder myself, unhappy with the way MMOs are generally heading out to be. Doesnt mean that I would join a bunch of amateurs with Zero working experience in the field under the leadership of a dreamer child and fail so miserably that I would start feeling proud about myself for trying. Failing as bad as what SV did is what causes people to shun the sandbox genre as a whole and burns people who actually want to play these kind of games. It wasnt your or my fault that SV started with greenhorns and failed miserably because of it. Just Henrick's fault, the boy with the CEO badge for this company.

 

 The sub fee is fine.    If you can't afford $15/M for entertainment   you probably need a new career.     Thats less than most people spend on going to a 2 hr film.   Its a niche game and there are plenty of opportunities to experience it free.     Henrik won't fire himself.   He's the only reason this style of game exists.       Honestly, without his UO fanboyism  you would probably NEVER see anything that came close right now as TESO sadly proves.  

Yea like Betel said, its not about $15. You failed to understand this point as well. The amount itself is a pittance but the concept behind charging the fee that a WORKING AAA game would charge for a broken mess that is MO is a complete joke.

Let me give a simple example that wouldnt go over heads, there are oscar winning movies that charge you an average ticket fare at a cineplex and there are 3minute ads that are shown for free before an actual movie starts to roll out. MO is a 3minute adult diaper advert that charges you the fee that an academy winning movie will cost you to watch in a theater.

No sane person pays that fare, and hence a lowering of sub prices would mean that people wouldnt feel Offended paying the same prices for MO that they pay for a AAA game. Get it?

 

Really?    A CEO who refuses to give in to mainstream taste even though the game is sucking away his personal income?    

Yea Really. Why do you keep asking me this? If I really dint mean it then I wouldnt have said it. As for your point, Henrick already Gave In to having skeletons reworked for that imaginary China launch of MO. I know this point is all just fiction and reason being to keep up with whatever laws they might have there, but to admit that he will be changing MO to keep up for a fictional launch kinda makes your " refuses to give in to mainstream taste" a moot statement. As for personal income, what personal income?? Most of the box sales are surely long gone, investors have blackballed SV stocks and the handful of current subs barely cover operating charges for MO, so unless you mean MO is sucking away Daddy's money, I dont see how that statement would make sense at all. 

 

At launch I admit I had some terrible impressions of SV and Henrik but honestly,   he has shrugged off many controversial design complaints and that impresses me.     He's not in it for the quick buck,   he's here because he wants a game .     Some people may have a hard time with that notion,  but I can understand it.     

No, I seriously doubt that you can understand barely enough to stay in the conversation...hes not in for the quick buck...hes here because he wants a game...shrugged off many controversial....I dont even know if we are talking about the same person anymore. Starvault is struggling to survive because of Henrick's management skills or lack thereof. I dont know what part of game designing and development he is actually involved but the CEO part is where he has shown remarkable failure. I dont know why people would have a hard time with the "notion" if he was actually a successful person but forgive me for not being impressed by a (professional) loser such as Henrick. A liar, crook and failure of a dev doesnt impress me the least bit, hope you understand that.

 

Personally,   I have respect for the guy.

 And if this was a movie, here would be the part where Henrick would look you in the eyes, tilt his head to an angle and extend his arm out for a tight handshake and tell you, " Good for you my white knight. Now give me your wallet."

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion ofcourse, but sometimes its better to have an Informed opinion on the matter before expressing views reagarding the topic. You know that saying : Its better to keep your mouth shut and only look stupid but open it and yadda yadda.

If henrik is in it for the money then surely he made the wrong type of game with the wrong game mechanics? shouldnt he of been making a wow clone

Originally posted by Betel

Originally posted by Stekky

 Resouces allow you not only TIME to create but Talent to do so.   

You can be the most talented team in the world, but if you don't have the resources to create, maintain and expand your work you will achieve nothing beyond a tech demo.

Of course, SV have neither the talent nor the resources which leads to the worst of both worlds. Remember, this team has no design or programming experience and is composed purely of UE modders.

Crooks and Liars?   Really?

Yes really. CC charges for the crooks part, and (one of MANY examples) fishing part 2 for the lying part.

 

  One of my first pre-release interviews that I remember from IRC was Sebastian saying he was picked up as a modder.     In fact,  most everyone they hired was a intern or just out of school.     The leads were both armchair devs who had enough  of waiting around for the game they wanted.    The interest was ALWAYS around the game concept not some dreamteam staff.      

They are all modders. Not one proffesional with experience and traning among them, just a bunch of kids who thought point and click modding in UE made them qualified to write an MMO. They have failed in every way imaginable, and in a few ways no one thought possible.

 

 The sub fee is fine.    If you can't afford $15/M for entertainment   you probably need a new career.  

You completely missed the point. They are charging AAA rates for a game that you'd be annoyed to pay $1 for on Android Market.

Henrik won't fire himself.   He's the only reason this style of game exists.       Honestly, without his UO fanboyism  you would probably NEVER see anything that came close right now as TESO sadly proves.  

The arrogance in this comment is astounding and sounds like something straight from Henrik himself. There are plenty of games inspired by the UO style and all of them are better than MO. Oh and the person to thank for all those games is called Raph Koster, not some kid spending daddys money on a failed vanity project.

Really?    A CEO who refuses to give in to mainstream taste even though the game is sucking away his personal income?

His income? rofl

How does atttempting to sell the game to the Chinese (among others) who would have changed some basic concepts in the game "refusing to give in"? Henrik wants money (and of course CEO and Designer next to his name) and doesn't care about anything else, including integrity. MO is a vanity project to boost his ego, paid for by his father and whatever suckers he can get to play/invest.

 

 At launch I admit I had some terrible impressions of SV and Henrik but honestly,   he has shrugged off many controversial design complaints and that impresses me.  

So shrugging off all the mistakes and doing nothing to fix them impresses you? I have a bridge in London to sell you, send me a PM.

 

  He's not in it for the quick buck,   he's here because he wants a game .     Some people may have a hard time with that notion,  but I can understand it.     

He is absolutely in it for a quick buck. He lies to players, attempts to decieve investors, and asks people to buy shares on Facebook, twitter, and the official forums. He wants those shares sold so he can cash in as much as possible before the game inevitably closes and the shares are worthless.

 

Personally,   I have respect for the guy.

You have the right to respect who you want (just ask the follolwers of Jim Jones ... oh wait you can't), but the rest of the world knows Henrik is a lying snake oil salesman who cares only for his bank account and ego.

However if you do really respect him, don't forget to PM me about that bridge!

 

One final thought, if you respect Henrik so much and like the product - why do you not play MO? As recently as a month ago you said you did not play anymore.

Is it because the product is clearly inferior or for some other reason?

 

Please show me where I stated I love MO.       I said I respected Henrik for trying to make MO and ignoring the all of the complaints about it's design.    Full loot PVP,  thieving,  local storage and FPV doesent make you that "quick buck" as you say it does and you're fooling yourself in believing Henrik didn't realize this.      Hell,   they didn't even back down on something as odd as nudity.  Removing all of this would have opened up the audience tremendously.        The game design was based on their personal translation of a FPV UO,  not market statistics and I STILL applaud them for trying.

Anyway,   as I stated yea the entire dev team is inexperienced and this was basically their first job in the gaming biz.      For that you can thank Henrik's excellent business prowess.      I include Henrik in that category of inexperience and honestly,  running SV not as a business but as a personal project.        

I don't play MO currently as the game is buggy,  imbalanced but most importantly is just missing so much.      While I do enjoy PVP,    having little else to do but craft in order to PVP becomes tiring.      I personally just want some NON PVP related sand for me to stay interested for longer periods.     Hell,   what little PVE there is in game is laughable.      EVE Online PVE looks like a fucking masterpiece in comparison to what MO offers.        Also,  a deep magic system wouldn't hurt.

With that,  I still keep my eye on the game and I will resub again for awakening to see if the improvements are of much value.        EVE and possibly Archeage withstanding,    there isn't much that will hold my interest right now.   

Originally posted by deathshroud

If henrik is in it for the money then surely he made the wrong type of game with the wrong game mechanics? shouldnt he of been making a wow clone

Lol NO  

There are too many skilled developers in the WoW Clone realm and Henrik could never compete.   He knows how desperate this genre is and most are willing to try anything.   How many people preordered or purchased MO sight unseen?  Why?

DESPERATION, but most were not that far gone to continue supporting this folly.

Originally posted by ilives

Originally posted by deathshroud

If henrik is in it for the money then surely he made the wrong type of game with the wrong game mechanics? shouldnt he of been making a wow clone

 

Lol NO  

There are too many skilled developers in the WoW Clone realm and Henrik could never compete.   He knows how desperate this genre is and most are willing to try anything.   How many people preordered or purchased MO sight unseen?  Why?

DESPERATION, but most were not that far gone to continue supporting this folly.

 

 not convinced still, the features he added are counter productive to that theory. Surely if he had done the following....

Tab based combat (instead of twitch based)

instanced and loaded areas (instead of seamless with no loadscreens)

consentual pvp (instead of full loot full pvp)

a nudity filter (instead of full nudity)

some form of ingame map (instead of no map)

Then the game would of appealed to a larger audiance, afterall the number of palyers who want tab targeted combat is far larger than those who want twitch based, same for the pvp and having instances with load screens would of been far eaiser to develop and cheaper. The nudity filter would of been a perfect example on how to appeal to more people since there are those who refused to paly it simply becuase of nudity. Yet i dare say i highly doubt anyone plays the game soley for it. The game would of still been a sandbox, but not only would it of been easier and cheaper to develop it would of also appealed to a larger audiance and at the same time been more liekly to make more money.

This is my reasoning behind me doubting henrik made the game soley for money, or to "steal" from players or to make quick cash.

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by ilives

Originally posted by deathshroud

If henrik is in it for the money then surely he made the wrong type of game with the wrong game mechanics? shouldnt he of been making a wow clone

 

Lol NO  

There are too many skilled developers in the WoW Clone realm and Henrik could never compete.   He knows how desperate this genre is and most are willing to try anything.   How many people preordered or purchased MO sight unseen?  Why?

DESPERATION, but most were not that far gone to continue supporting this folly.

 

 not convinced still, the features he added are counter productive to that theory. Surely if he had done the following....

Tab based combat (instead of twitch based)

instanced and loaded areas (instead of seamless with no loadscreens)

consentual pvp (instead of full loot full pvp)

a nudity filter (instead of full nudity)

some form of ingame map (instead of no map)

 

Then the game would of appealed to a larger audiance, afterall the number of palyers who want tab targeted combat is far larger than those who want twitch based, same for the pvp and having instances with load screens would of been far eaiser to develop and cheaper. The nudity filter would of been a perfect example on how to appeal to more people since there are those who refused to paly it simply becuase of nudity. Yet i dare say i highly doubt anyone plays the game soley for it. The game would of still been a sandbox, but not only would it of been easier and cheaper to develop it would of also appealed to a larger audiance and at the same time been more liekly to make more money.

 

This is my reasoning behind me doubting henrik made the game soley for money, or to "steal" from players or to make quick cash.

Seriously man stop and think. Disagreing in the name of disagreement isnt cool. You are perfectly aware of all the crap that do come along with MO and still each time you re posting something i can see that you are blatantly supporting them, defending them. That looks like a "Stockholme Syndrome" to me and if i was entitled to judge you i could easily say that you re naive as hell believing Henriks lies for multipled time and hoping that MO and SV would change. That or that you have affiliations with SV and its at your best interrest for you to keep what they re doing.  Henrik put in his pocket lots of cash with preorders and instead of investing the money on developement i m sure he did spend them in far more enjoyable activities. Theres not a single company out there that does not aim on profit and if you believe the opposite then theres no reason for discussing with you.

Now if you think that Henrik would have made a "WOW clone" as you say and he would stand a 1% chance to survive among companies that know what they re doing then you are clearly delussional. He is just an apportunist that aimed at the hungry audience of sandbox games, hyped, lied and put in his pocket some of their money. If he was smart enough he would have done the same with main difference the fact that he could have made MO a somehow decent game and he could have a standard playerbase instead of living la vida loca for almost two years and making a turn now that he is about to take a dive. And still even now if the case was that he would make a 180 degrees turn and he would focus MO making the game it was supposed to be i wouldnt mind at all but given the facts that SV's talent, knowledge and experience is poor, their financial are at all times low, their crappy crew is crippled and Henrik is still leading, my best bet is that Awakening will be one portion of the same crap we saw untill now And their turn aims only at getting a last breath of air by bringing back as many subscribers to test the patch. Both you and me know that thats not gonna happen cause subscribers will come, see and go exactly what they did in the past many many times.

I think that if Henrik was in this for cash, there are a lot better design/feature decisions to be made than one he chosen.

Originally posted by Toferio

I think that if Henrik was in this for cash, there are a lot better design/feature decisions to be made than one he chosen.

 exactly, regardless of if i like the game or not. the truth is pretty much this.

also agriop, i just listed features that would of increased the number of subs mo would of had, those things dont = themepark although most themeparks have those features a sandbox can still have them as well. In my time of looking at both this forum and MO's forum and mostly in the public section of this forum, its apparent that most of the mmo player base prefer tab targeted combat, they prefer a more casual approach to combat. they prefer consensual pvp even going as far as to demand pve only servers for darkfall. I remember a huge argument on the offical mo forums over the nudity and demanding a nudity filter or people boycotting the game. But henrik didnt change his mind on any of it really. Hes obviously making the game he wants to make and often ignores thedemnads of gamers and or suggestions of gamers for better or worse.

Also the game hasnt made any money since it released

Personally I don't see why not to a nudity filter. I mean it's nice it's in if you want to see it - but honestly, swimming naked (backwards) is... traumatic.  If the models were nicer to look at then ok.. but ugh

That is going OT tho.

There have *got* to be easier ways to make a buck than this tho - so I think he's in it for the shits and giggles, ok make a living maybe make a lot of money but their overall vision is not something they have deviated from in a long time.

Originally posted by argirop

 

---snip---

I agree with the points argirop brings up.

Think about it folks, just like what most of us know Henrick also would have had a clue that the average gamer is sick and tired of the WoW model of gaming. People hail GW2, Archeage and to some extent TERA as the second coming of MMO gaming because they seem to be something different from the generic cookie cutter themeparks that have come out for the past half a decade in the post-WoW period. 

Catering to a crowd that would happily buy into the new style of gaming, ie something like 3D UO like he was planning, would actually rake in a good profit and surpass the small "niche" boundary that people associate sandboxes with. Except, he just failed miserably. IF MO played like what it looked on paper then this game would have grown leaps and bounds in these 2 years. I can bet you my left shoe that Henrick pitched the idea of providing to a new non-WoW genre and promised the initial investors rich dividends, that his game would bring in, but all they have gotten to date is a small pink slip that says IOU - HOPE in me, Henrick. 

Unless you guys are implying that Henrick made MO NOT to earn a profit but to lose money then this boy is far more "special" than what I give him credit for...Do you seriously think he would have made a company (mostly using his daddy's money) just to suffer losses?

FPV, abrupt "node" loading (with an illusion of being a seamless world), FFA full loot, unrestricted PvP out of city limits, no fixed skill set, other random PITA features are nearly everything that WoW isnt. For anyone sick of WoW this would have been a dream game. But he failed and thus his "vision" to rake in huge profits from creating such a game burnt down to ashes. As for nudity, I think SV purposefully made the nude models so butt fugly that people actually feel compelled to cover it up as soon as possible. It must be a... zen joke, yea?

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by argirop

 

---snip---

I agree with the points argirop brings up.

 

Think about it folks, just like what most of us know Henrick also would have had a clue that the average gamer is sick and tired of the WoW model of gaming. People hail GW2, Archeage and to some extent TERA as the second coming of MMO gaming because they seem to be something different from the generic cookie cutter themeparks that have come out for the past half a decade in the post-WoW period. 

Catering to a crowd that would happily buy into the new style of gaming, ie something like 3D UO like he was planning, would actually rake in a good profit and surpass the small "niche" boundary that people associate sandboxes with. Except, he just failed miserably. IF MO played like what it looked on paper then this game would have grown leaps and bounds in these 2 years. I can bet you my left shoe that Henrick pitched the idea of providing to a new non-WoW genre and promised the initial investors rich dividends, that his game would bring in, but all they have gotten to date is a small pink slip that says IOU - HOPE in me, Henrick. 

Unless you guys are implying that Henrick made MO NOT to earn a profit but to lose money then this boy is far more "special" than what I give him credit for...Do you seriously think he would have made a company (mostly using his daddy's money) just to suffer losses?

 

FPV, abrupt "node" loading (with an illusion of being a seamless world), FFA full loot, unrestricted PvP out of city limits, no fixed skill set, other random PITA features are nearly everything that WoW isnt. For anyone sick of WoW this would have been a dream game. But he failed and thus his "vision" to rake in huge profits from creating such a game burnt down to ashes. As for nudity, I think SV purposefully made the nude models so butt fugly that people actually feel compelled to cover it up as soon as possible. It must be a... zen joke, yea?

 he made the game the way he wanted to make it without compromise first and foremost,

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by argirop

 

---snip---

 People hail GW2, Archeage and to some extent TERA

GW2 is a pure, generic themepark done right, that's the main appeal of it. It isnt popular because of any innovative features, in fact most of them can be found in other games. It just takes those features, adds few cool details and combines them in a solid package of fun. I have yet to try it for myself, but that's my impression.

TERA is your WoW with aim based combat sprinkled on top. It reaks of asian F2P features and is extremely generic when it comes to everything but their aim based combat.

Seriously RainBringer, you are arguing a lost argument. I am not an avid SV fan, and I do think that Henrik is as unprofessional as a dev can be, but if he was after scamming people for money he had better alternatives. You are just making stuff up now.

Originally posted by deathshroud

 he made the game the way he wanted to make it without compromise first and foremost,

Well if he wanted to make the game as it is today then he has serious issues. But since its difficult to believe that he was planing to make such a messy game my best bet is that he lacks whatever it takes to make a game and mostly creativity and imagination. So does the rest of his team.

Originally posted by argirop

Originally posted by deathshroud

 he made the game the way he wanted to make it without compromise first and foremost,

  my best bet is that he lacks whatever it takes to make a game and mostly creativity and imagination.

I don't think that's the main aspects Henrik is lacking, but the sense of design and skills to develop a feature. It's one thing to imagine a feature you think is cool for a sandbox, but it's completely different thing to actually implement it working and fitting into the game. So far I am sceptic to the implementations.

Take thievery for example, as it was in closed beta. It didnt flag you, you could steal all you want. It was a complete mess. Anyone with slight skill of design could have predicted that. 

Take lack of orientation you ahd back in beta when dead. No lightbeams, nothing. That too could have been predicted. Lack of compass, lack of trade brokers, the list goes on. A good designer would been able to forsee the need for such features, while SV takes more of trial and error approach testing their ideas at the cost of player experince.

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by argirop

Originally posted by deathshroud

 he made the game the way he wanted to make it without compromise first and foremost,

  my best bet is that he lacks whatever it takes to make a game and mostly creativity and imagination.

I don't think that's the main aspects Henrik is lacking, but the sense of design and skills to develop a feature. It's one thing to imagine a feature you think is cool for a sandbox, but it's completely different thing to actually implement it working and fitting into the game. So far I am sceptic to the implementations.

Take thievery for example, as it was in closed beta. It didnt flag you, you could steal all you want. It was a complete mess. Anyone with slight skill of design could have predicted that. 

Take lack of orientation you ahd back in beta when dead. No lightbeams, nothing. That too could have been predicted. Lack of compass, lack of trade brokers, the list goes on. A good designer would been able to forsee the need for such features, while SV takes more of trial and error approach testing their ideas at the cost of player experince.

I think it's more likely that they were fully aware of the ramifications of releasing half finished systems but due to time and money constraints were content to release those half finished features with the knowledge that they were good enough to add something to the game to entice players to keep playing and knowing that at some point they would be able to finish the systems granted they get more time and funding.

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by argirop

Originally posted by deathshroud

 he made the game the way he wanted to make it without compromise first and foremost,

  my best bet is that he lacks whatever it takes to make a game and mostly creativity and imagination.

I don't think that's the main aspects Henrik is lacking, but the sense of design and skills to develop a feature. It's one thing to imagine a feature you think is cool for a sandbox, but it's completely different thing to actually implement it working and fitting into the game. So far I am sceptic to the implementations.

Take thievery for example, as it was in closed beta. It didnt flag you, you could steal all you want. It was a complete mess. Anyone with slight skill of design could have predicted that. 

Take lack of orientation you ahd back in beta when dead. No lightbeams, nothing. That too could have been predicted. Lack of compass, lack of trade brokers, the list goes on. A good designer would been able to forsee the need for such features, while SV takes more of trial and error approach testing their ideas at the cost of player experince.

I think it's more likely that they were fully aware of the ramifications of releasing half finished systems but due to time and money constraints were content to release those half finished features with the knowledge that they were good enough to add something to the game to entice players to keep playing and knowing that at some point they would be able to finish the systems granted they get more time and funding.

All of the systems I named were design choices they have argued for, not something they were forced to release.

Originally posted by Toferio

 

GW2 is a pure, generic themepark done right, that's the main appeal of it. It isnt popular because of any innovative features, in fact most of them can be found in other games. It just takes those features, adds few cool details and combines them in a solid package of fun. I have yet to try it for myself, but that's my impression.

TERA is your WoW with aim based combat sprinkled on top. It reaks of asian F2P features and is extremely generic when it comes to everything but their aim based combat.

Seriously RainBringer, you are arguing a lost argument. I am not an avid SV fan, and I do think that Henrik is as unprofessional as a dev can be, but if he was after scamming people for money he had better alternatives. You are just making stuff up now.

You misinterpret my points. I did not say GW2 or TERA arent themeparks, but that they are DIFFERENT (even TERA's aim based is diffrent from WoW's tab based targeting just like you said regardless of anything else) from the generic themepark games that have been cloned out in WoW's image. If someone wanted to play WoW, they would do exactly that and not dabble in the WoW clone market. An undeniable point why WoW still has millions of subs and the clones can barely push the subs count to anywhere around 1 million tops. Just like someone who is sick with WoW wont play any WoW clone for long and someone happy with WoW also wont play a WoW clone for long.

What MO was trying to be was a 3D UO, something like an anti-WoW (not only a sandbox like UO). You cant deny it, fanboys cant deny it and Henrick himself has stated it in IRC and other places. 3D UO is everything WoW isnt. This would definitely garner the interest of older gamers who have grown up playing UO just like a TESO MMO would interest a sandbox fan (I do NOT mean the TESO crap thats coming out by any means, I mean a Real TESO based game). Elder scrolls are a very popular IP and all the TESO games put together have sold a Lot of boxes, so it isnt speculation to say that a Real TESO MMO would have been quite popular as well, even if its a sandbox "niche" game, it would have made a profit of millions provided the game was worth playing. Even today UO got more than 10 times the player numbers MO has, dont you think they would have come over to MO if this was a 3D UO done right?

MO back then, would have been a sweet tune to a gamer's years, before all the bugs and the bullshit. One reason why people preordered was because of this fact alone (and also SV lied that the ONLY way to get into beta was to buy the box but that is another topic for another thread). This idea, if it worked right, would have most likely taken the MMO genre to new lengths, a 3D UO after all is no niche matter. This would have been the exact song Henrick would have sung in the initial investor's ears, since look at the facts, Henrick and his team got NO experience and they wanted to make a game that the genre desperately required and the investors were promised their weight in gold when this game was released and raked in the money. Who else in their right minds would give a complete greenhorn, like Henrick, capital as initial investment? And face it, if Henrick is really good at something it is to sell his lies, he has been doing it for years now. 

Im not looking to argue this fact, as I see it, its most obvious Henrick was/is in it for the money. Maybe not the quick buck like someone mentioned but a buck nonetheless. IF he REALLY wasnt in for the money, he wouldnt lie to his customer about his game in hopes of keeping them interested while paying him for hopes and dreams alone. That is the most obvious point. The game that he wanted to create, clashed with what the genre needed is a coincidence, but if he dint want to make money from MO then he would have made it as a open source shareware, that fans could mod and add to. But he dint. Ask the man himself, lets see if he can tell you that he dint want to make money from MO since all his past crooked actions prove contrary to this belief.

Originally posted by RainBringer

You misinterpret my points. I did not say GW2 or TERA arent themeparks, but that they are DIFFERENT (even TERA's aim based is diffrent from WoW's tab based targeting just like you said regardless of anything else) from the generic themepark games that have been cloned out in WoW's image. If someone wanted to play WoW, they would do exactly that and not dabble in the WoW clone market. An undeniable point why WoW still has millions of subs and the clones can barely push the subs count to anywhere around 1 million tops. Just like someone who is sick with WoW wont play any WoW clone for long and someone happy with WoW also wont play a WoW clone for long.

 

What MO was trying to be was a 3D UO, something like an anti-WoW (not only a sandbox like UO). You cant deny it, fanboys cant deny it and Henrick himself has stated it in IRC and other places. 3D UO is everything WoW isnt. This would definitely garner the interest of older gamers who have grown up playing UO just like a TESO MMO would interest a sandbox fan (I do NOT mean the TESO crap thats coming out by any means, I mean a Real TESO based game). Elder scrolls are a very popular IP and all the TESO games put together have sold a Lot of boxes, so it isnt speculation to say that a Real TESO MMO would have been quite popular as well, even if its a sandbox "niche" game, it would have made a profit of millions provided the game was worth playing. Even today UO got more than 10 times the player numbers MO has, dont you think they would have come over to MO if this was a 3D UO done right?

 

MO back then, would have been a sweet tune to a gamer's years, before all the bugs and the bullshit. One reason why people preordered was because of this fact alone (and also SV lied that the ONLY way to get into beta was to buy the box but that is another topic for another thread). This idea, if it worked right, would have most likely taken the MMO genre to new lengths, a 3D UO after all is no niche matter. This would have been the exact song Henrick would have sung in the initial investor's ears, since look at the facts, Henrick and his team got NO experience and they wanted to make a game that the genre desperately required and the investors were promised their weight in gold when this game was released and raked in the money. Who else in their right minds would give a complete greenhorn, like Henrick, capital as initial investment? And face it, if Henrick is really good at something it is to sell his lies, he has been doing it for years now. 

 

Im not looking to argue this fact, as I see it, its most obvious Henrick was/is in it for the money. Maybe not the quick buck like someone mentioned but a buck nonetheless. IF he REALLY wasnt in for the money, he wouldnt lie to his customer about his game in hopes of keeping them interested while paying him for hopes and dreams alone. That is the most obvious point. The game that he wanted to create, clashed with what the genre needed is a coincidence, but if he dint want to make money from MO then he would have made it as a open source shareware, that fans could mod and add to. But he dint. Ask the man himself, lets see if he can tell you that he dint want to make money from MO since all his past crooked actions prove contrary to this belief.

Amen!

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by Toferio

 

GW2 is a pure, generic themepark done right, that's the main appeal of it. It isnt popular because of any innovative features, in fact most of them can be found in other games. It just takes those features, adds few cool details and combines them in a solid package of fun. I have yet to try it for myself, but that's my impression.

TERA is your WoW with aim based combat sprinkled on top. It reaks of asian F2P features and is extremely generic when it comes to everything but their aim based combat.

Seriously RainBringer, you are arguing a lost argument. I am not an avid SV fan, and I do think that Henrik is as unprofessional as a dev can be, but if he was after scamming people for money he had better alternatives. You are just making stuff up now.

You misinterpret my points. I did not say GW2 or TERA arent themeparks, but that they are DIFFERENT (even TERA's aim based is diffrent from WoW's tab based targeting just like you said regardless of anything else) from the generic themepark games that have been cloned out in WoW's image. If someone wanted to play WoW, they would do exactly that and not dabble in the WoW clone market. An undeniable point why WoW still has millions of subs and the clones can barely push the subs count to anywhere around 1 million tops. Just like someone who is sick with WoW wont play any WoW clone for long and someone happy with WoW also wont play a WoW clone for long.

 

What MO was trying to be was a 3D UO, something like an anti-WoW (not only a sandbox like UO). You cant deny it, fanboys cant deny it and Henrick himself has stated it in IRC and other places. 3D UO is everything WoW isnt. This would definitely garner the interest of older gamers who have grown up playing UO just like a TESO MMO would interest a sandbox fan (I do NOT mean the TESO crap thats coming out by any means, I mean a Real TESO based game). Elder scrolls are a very popular IP and all the TESO games put together have sold a Lot of boxes, so it isnt speculation to say that a Real TESO MMO would have been quite popular as well, even if its a sandbox "niche" game, it would have made a profit of millions provided the game was worth playing. Even today UO got more than 10 times the player numbers MO has, dont you think they would have come over to MO if this was a 3D UO done right?

 

MO back then, would have been a sweet tune to a gamer's years, before all the bugs and the bullshit. One reason why people preordered was because of this fact alone (and also SV lied that the ONLY way to get into beta was to buy the box but that is another topic for another thread). This idea, if it worked right, would have most likely taken the MMO genre to new lengths, a 3D UO after all is no niche matter. This would have been the exact song Henrick would have sung in the initial investor's ears, since look at the facts, Henrick and his team got NO experience and they wanted to make a game that the genre desperately required and the investors were promised their weight in gold when this game was released and raked in the money. Who else in their right minds would give a complete greenhorn, like Henrick, capital as initial investment? And face it, if Henrick is really good at something it is to sell his lies, he has been doing it for years now. 

 

Im not looking to argue this fact, as I see it, its most obvious Henrick was/is in it for the money. Maybe not the quick buck like someone mentioned but a buck nonetheless. IF he REALLY wasnt in for the money, he wouldnt lie to his customer about his game in hopes of keeping them interested while paying him for hopes and dreams alone. That is the most obvious point. The game that he wanted to create, clashed with what the genre needed is a coincidence, but if he dint want to make money from MO then he would have made it as a open source shareware, that fans could mod and add to. But he dint. Ask the man himself, lets see if he can tell you that he dint want to make money from MO since all his past crooked actions prove contrary to this belief.

Very well said!

I am so sceptical about this game still.  I love 20% of it. . can see the potential love for the other 80% but they just keep "almost" getting there.

Tintrem. . . this is soo long overdue. and They are "done" excpet for one "advanced" building leaving room for an excuse.  The UI is "done" except for "a few features" leaving room for an excuse. .. etc. etc.

I hope they truly deliver. . I have been waiting to come back to the game I want to love for a long time.  it all just sounds so familiar.  For new people or recent converts it might sound so promising. . to me it sounds just as promising as the last several leadups to an expansion / update.

I can't wait.  I want this one to be it as badly as any fanboy.  I want the game that I loved during closted beta to grab my interest again.  I just hope it is not too late.