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General Discussion  » Vanilla WoW is still my favourite MMO of all time.

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33 posts found
  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

 
OP  4/23/12 7:14:14 AM#1

The funny thing is it's better than MMOs being released today and gets the core mechanics perfectly right, MMOs today have massive flaws that can never be fixed unless they do a major overhual. I really wish Blizzard never added enter dungeons or battlegrounds from anywhere and I wish they never did TBC because the outland takes away from that seamless world feeling. I also wish that they never did flying mounts because it killed the world size feeling, exploration and killed the little world PVP that the game had left. 

WoW got the world right which no other MMO to date has done nearly as well. MMOs today are all instanced and zoned like made with loads of loading screens and often have player limits per zone of 100 before they clone the zone again. WoW just had each zone flowing into the next one seamlessly and it just felt so amazing to explore that world. The only loading screen was inbetween the two major conts and even then you had to go on a boat ride, as a result it still felt kind of a seamless transition. Most MMOs would just have you go into a portal or click on an NPC or a bell. WoW had you actually getting on the boat and have it sail across the sea, so it all felt built into the world and real. WoW also had a few zones per level range to level up in, where MMOs today are so linear you only have one clear path, so making ALTS is really boring. If you hate the first 4 or 5 planets in SWTOR for example, then you'll never make an ALT in the game as you have no other choice of places to level.

The world felt amazing, it all felt so hand crafted and had lots of personality and I loved exploring it. There was just such amazing atmosphere, from the graphical effects and the sound design which just brought life to the world. I never have the same feeling in MMOs today, like SWTOR the worlds just feels so lifeless, empty and lacking in atmosphere. All I ever heard in SWTOR was my own footsteps, they seemed to lack NPCs talking outside of cutscenes and there was no atmosphere music or sounds like wind or crickets. WoW had all this and it had a day/night cycle and eventually weather, which I dunno how they left out of SWTOR. I haven't played an MMO since WoW that has made me want to explore the world, they all feel pretty generic or poorly built with loading screens everywhere, so they don't feel like worlds but game levels.

The other thing WoW got right was instances, before WOW instances were just lame and like 3 mobs standing in an empty room lol. The first instance I ever done in WoW was The Dead Mines and it would have been an epic instance for any high level content in another MMO, in WoW it was at level 20. This blew everyones minds at the quality of the instances in WoW and people still talk about it today, never before did we see instances with such detail, especially at such a low level.

The other amazing thing is WoW built the instances into the world so they felt seamless again. Like they would take up real world space and have a location on the map inside a building or cave. You had to travel inside a dungeon first to get to the instance and you had to travel manually to that instance, there was no warping automatically straight there. Taking the Dead Minds for example, it was based in a cave in Westfall and actually had a real exit, no teleporting you out and you could see the back of The Dead Mines from STV. As a result it all just felt very real and part of the world, normally I hate instances as they break the immersion, WoW however just got the balance perfectly right. Any MMO I play today either warps you inside an instance via talking to an NPC or something, they don't feel like they're in the world. You used to get PVP outside WoW's instances too as you fought to get inside them and you had to travel to them, no sitting in a fleet hub like SWTOR and warping to some unknown location that isn't on the map.

WoW also got the combat and UI right, people say WoW had bad PVP compared to DAOC but I don't agree. I played DAOC back then and the PVP sucked, it might have had good keep mechanics behind it, but the the UI and combat mechanics sucked. It felt like you were trying to steer a brick around in DAOC, the movement in WoW however was so fast and fluid. UIs before WoW were all so bad, barely functioning and just a general clusterfuck, WoW refined the MMO UI to what it is today... functioning. The combat is just so fast, fluid and instant, there isn't any weird ability delay like you get in most MMOs. It just feels so satisfying and that is why IMO it had much better PVP than other MMOs, it was actually fun to fight with the combat system. MMOs before WoW just weren't really about the combat, they were more about socialising, which is great but that doesn't make the actual PVP fun.

World PVP was amazing, again it was PVP like no other game had and still doesn't have. There were city raids every weekend, there were guilds setup to protect lowbies, massive PVP fights at Tarren Mill and Southshore. We had fights breaking out at The Crossroads and everyone remembers the nightmare levelling up was at STV. It was just amazing and all it needed was proper objectives, rewards and an Honour system. They added battlegrounds in which was great, you actually had to travel to them and queue up outside them, people were chatting to eachother outside, the enemies often raided so you got fights outside and people dueled. Then for some reason they allowed you to enter them from anywhere and world PVP really took a massive hit, I don't understand why they did that....

WoW is still the only game that got the class system right because they're all so unique and fun to play. Every MMO I play I find myself levelling up several characters to work out I don't find any of the classes fun. They either have too many classes so they feel watered down and generic or they have this 4 type of class archetype system to where every class in the archetype feels the same. WoW however had a small amount of classes but each one was so unique and very fun. I found myself levelling up every class, not to find one I found fun but to play them all as they were all so fun. The best thing is each class had 3 roles they could play to, I could be a healer as my priest or I could do damage or go for a balance for survival. In most other MMOs you never have those options, your classes are generally clear cut. It really got rid of the standard trinity system as I had options to play other roles, Priests could do DPS, Druids could Tank or heal or do DPS, Paladins could tank or heal or do both etc. Sure this wasn't the case in the super high end raids, but it never will be in MMOs. To raid you need to be set up to the optimum loadout and spec for your class, people who loved what Raids used to be were happy with that. Not all content should appeal to everyone, yet in todays MMOs they want everyone to love everything and so it all feels so dumbed down as everyone needs to be able to do it.

WoW also was the most polished MMO launch by miles for it's day, before WoW MMO launches were a mess. I'm not talking server issues, the games were always broken at launch and took months of patching to get them stable. WoW barely had any bugs at launch and was justa  smooth experience apart from the server issues. You cannot blame them for that, no MMO before WoW ever attracted those kinds of numbers so they didn't expect to have to meet to such demand. There is no excuse for server issues today, now we know millions of people will login on day one, back then however MMOs had a few hundred thousand subs at most. 

WoW got the core mechanics right and that was the most important thing, MMOs today fail to do this and so they lose players fast. WoW's problems were things like lack of customization, PVP objectives, crafting as abit weak etc. It was all stuff that could easily be improved upon over time, until then people had a great, innovative and amazing MMO to play. WoW was the first MMO ever to blend great PVP and PVE together, I don't care what the haters say, it had such an amazing combat system and UI to make it better. However MMOs today like take SWTOR for example again, the problems people have with the game are core issues that can never be fixed. Things like the planets feeling so linear, lifeless, instanced and enclosed would really mean scrapping and starting again and that isn't possible. WoW nailed the world and so all they needed to do is keep improving it, it was an amazing MMO and this is why it's my fave MMO of all time.

 

Btw I have played UO,EQ,SWG,EVE,PS and DAOC all before WoW. I know what I'm talking about before veterans flame me, my friends didn't like MMOs before WoW and then suddenly there was a game with all the right mechanics which got them playing. I remember how bad things like combat and UI were in MMOs before WoW, I mean Everquest was standing still in first person, hitting a button and waiting like 8 seconds for an attack lol... it was so slow and clunky. SWG as well was got to doctor, get buffs, make sure you have comp armour and never ever die but you will have to get new armour within the day because it decays so fast.

I'm talking about Vanilla WoW and most of it is pre allowing you to enter battlegrounds from anywhere era, I stopped playing fully though thanx to TBC and have only come back to play trials of each expansion since and hate what they've done to the game. I think most of the WoW hate today is because of how Blizzard have dumbed it down and ruined it so much, it isn't really directed at Vanilla WoW.

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

4/23/12 8:29:51 AM#2

While I will whole-heartedly agree that vanilla WoW was leaps and bounds better than current WoW, it still never tickled my fancy (is it just me, or does that phrase sound kinda dirty?),

I didn't care much for the world at all. It felt small in comparison to games like EQ and FFXI. The low ceiling was partially to blame for this. Mountains were nothing more than over-glorified hills, and they felt like poorly disguised bars of a playpen, keeping you locked into every area you entered. Instances disconnected you from the world, and the reused maps in many areas just felt like lazy area design.

I would say my favorite MMO would be Final Fantasy XI pre-Wings of the Goddess. For me, the game had everything I could ask for.

Teamwork: Grouping was pretty much required to advance in level and to handle a lot of the quests/missions the game offered. Fighting in a group required a bit of strategy, including coordinating your attacks with your teammates to form skillchains and magic bursts.

Variety: The game had so many jobs to choose from, and trying a new job didn't mean starting over from scratch since you could change jobs at your mog house at any time.

Crafting: I'm a craftoholic when it comes to MMOs, and FFXI didn't restrict you to learning only two skills like a lot of games do. In fact, many recipies actually required you to train multiple skills in order to craft them. Crafted items also made up the bulk of equipment and consumable items players used as well, which made crafting much more meaningful than you typically find in games these days. It also took a good amount of effort to obtain the materials and skills to go far in crafting, so it wasn't the sort of thing anyone and everyone got into as well, meaning if you were a crafter, your skills were pretty valuable.

FFXI always had something to keep you busy. Even though solo leveling was next to impossible for most classes, you always had something else you could do, even alone. Whether it was farming items to sell, crafting, fishing, starting a new job, participating in Beseiged events in Aht Urghan Whie Gate, or looking for soloable NMs, there were plenty of tasks besides just level grinding to keep yourself busy in the game.

Story: This was the first MMO that really had a progressive storyline that you followed. The storyline differed depending on your home nation, but they ultimately all tied in together. And the stories were actually interesting.

The Music: FFXI's music is easily my favorite out of any MMO I've ever played. Nobuo Uematsu isn't famous for no good reason.

There were so many dynamic elements to the game as well, from the wheather affecting crafting results, spell power, and the appearance of elementals, to the conquest system affecting the availability of teleports, and the items certain vendors carry. I loved how some monsters would aggro by line-of-sight, others by sound (proximity), undead would aggro to low HP, and some creatures to spell casts. It really made it important to know your enemies and your surroundings.

I could go on, but this has gotten pretty long-winded as it is, and I doubt anyone will want to read it all anyway.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

4/23/12 8:38:28 AM#3

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  Or in some cases, an MMO that they were never able to play (see MEO).

I have to wonder how much of that involves crimson tinted contacts. 

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

4/23/12 8:51:16 AM#4
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  Or in some cases, an MMO that they were never able to play (see MEO).

I have to wonder how much of that involves crimson tinted contacts. 

Why is it so difficult to believe that not everyone's favorite game is something current? Do you really believe that every new game is better than every old game? Have you played any old games? We've given legitimate reasons for our opinions how about giving one for yours?

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3394

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

4/23/12 8:55:00 AM#5
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  [...]

So what ?

My favorite MMO would by the way be Vanguard.

I still would know a ton of improvements for that game. But its better than anything else in existence.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

4/23/12 8:59:04 AM#6
Originally posted by Adamantine
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  [...]

So what ?

My favorite MMO would by the way be Vanguard.

I still would know a ton of improvements for that game. But its better than anything else in existence.

Then my statement didn't apply to you, now, did it?

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

4/23/12 9:07:31 AM#7
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  Or in some cases, an MMO that they were never able to play (see MEO).

I have to wonder how much of that involves crimson tinted contacts. 

Why is it so difficult to believe that not everyone's favorite game is something current? Do you really believe that every new game is better than every old game? Have you played any old games? We've given legitimate reasons for our opinions how about giving one for yours?

It's not.  It's just interesting that, again, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, it turns out to be a game that they can't play anymore.

My current favorite is LotRO.  My past fovorites have included games that no longer exist, such as SWG pre-NGE, Tabula Rasa, Motor City Online...

It's interesting that you go for the "if you like newer games better than new ones, you're probably a noob" line right off the bat.  Especially since Vanilla WoW isn't what most would consider to be an "old game". 

I did like those games, but I also can't help but consider the fact that if they came back, just as they were, that my visit to them would probably be a short one.  Many aspects of them (and vanilla WoW) were frustrating then, and would be even more frustrating, now. 

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

 
OP  4/23/12 9:13:54 AM#8
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  Or in some cases, an MMO that they were never able to play (see MEO).

I have to wonder how much of that involves crimson tinted contacts. 

I think I stated good reasons and why I cannot stand newer MMOs.

 

[mod edit]

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

 
OP  4/23/12 9:18:49 AM#9
Originally posted by FrostWyrm

While I will whole-heartedly agree that vanilla WoW was leaps and bounds better than current WoW, it still never tickled my fancy (is it just me, or does that phrase sound kinda dirty?),

I didn't care much for the world at all. It felt small in comparison to games like EQ and FFXI. T

I played EQ and the zones were the same layout apart from there was loading screens inbetween and most zones were full of nothing with low detail and obvious boundaries like square walls. I know it was in the limitations of it's time but the world was rather full and empty, though it did have a feeling of being scared to travel in it.

FFXI's world felt the same because it was designed for the PS2 which didn't have much memory. The world was rather barren and lots of zones felt like corridors and I remember feeling stuck to the ground, which I hate in a game.

 

It's all opinion though, no one is right or wrong, I just didn't like either of them games for their world.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

 
OP  4/23/12 9:20:17 AM#10
Originally posted by Adamantine
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  [...]

So what ?

My favorite MMO would by the way be Vanguard.

I still would know a ton of improvements for that game. But its better than anything else in existence.

I loved what they had setup for Vanguards world, it had my MMO dream of sailing across to conts yourself. I just wish the world wasn't so barren and uninteresting to explore, the character models were good and they added content lol.

  OberanMiM

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 237

4/23/12 9:27:01 AM#11

Vanilla WoW wasn't too bad (i still have my disagreements with the fact they completely separated the factions and don't allow the players to communicate while NPC's can talk to both factions).

 

I did like the no overland zoning but the instances felt kinda hallow, they werent things you explored like in EQ, they felt isolated which didn't sit well with me. In the end the game entertained me for a few months but at WoW's release i still felt EQ was better (especially given the direction WoW went towards casual)

 

Also you were wrong about the loading screens, dungeons in WoW had loading screens too (the lack of those is one thing i love about Vanguard, you just walk into a dungeon and it opened up without any loading screens)

 

In all while i think that Vanilla WoW was a good game in its own right. it wasn't for me (which is why I only played a few months at release), But it went astray after that. Plus i do beleive than Vanguard had more potential than WoW but sadly suffered from too many release issues.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

 
OP  4/23/12 9:54:01 AM#12
Originally posted by OberanMiM

 

Also you were wrong about the loading screens, dungeons in WoW had loading screens too (the lack of those is one thing i love about Vanguard, you just walk into a dungeon and it opened up without any loading screens)

 

I know they had loading screens.

I said I loved how the instances werre built into dungeons with no loading screens so they felt like they were part of the world. The took up real world space and that's why I felt like instances in WoW were acceptable. Like when you see the rear of The Dead Mines from STV, it takes up space from Westfall to STV.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

4/23/12 9:58:18 AM#13
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  Or in some cases, an MMO that they were never able to play (see MEO).

I have to wonder how much of that involves crimson tinted contacts. 

I think I stated good reasons and why I cannot stand newer MMOs.

Fair enough, though many of the things you mentioned: exploration, art, atmospherics, etc., are in WoW to this day. 

I prefer current WoW to vanilla in about every aspect, even despite the overly easy 0-60 game.  The old quest grind, resplendant in its "get X creature body parts coupled with Pavlov's Dog style 30% QI drop rates", was an excrutiating grind, IMO.

From a "history forward" standpoint however, it was probably the first MMO that wasn't trying to make its interface part of the challenge.  It marked the beginning of the end of the developer attitude that "punishing players for playing is a good idea".

But from a present backward perspective(mine, anyway), it was largely a level/gear grind, where anything even SLIGHTLY different than quests of genocide made your spirit soar for a bit.  The whole levelling experience was like having to watch "Stealing Beauty" without the fast forward button.

Edited for spelling, tense, and punctuation issues.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

 
OP  4/23/12 10:57:07 AM#14

I found the new quests to be really linear so I don't like what they did with Cataclysm. Yeh the old quests are now really boring but for it's day they were fresh and innovative in the fact you could level 1 - 60 on quests alone. WoW was the first mainstream MMO to do this (I say mainstream cause there might have been some underground one that I have never heard of) and as I remember every MMO just made you grind with one or two quests dotted around.

The other thing I hate about WoWs new quests is they all feel broken like they're trying to done something the engine cannot handle. Like when I did the Death Knight stuff the flying doesn't feel good and when aiming with turrets the circle is like a texture on the ground because there is no physics. They also make you do crazy over kill amounts of damage and display the numbers but it's worthless. I mean why give me crazy high level mobs when I'm 55 and then let me own them so easily? It isn't fun, I want a challenge. The worst one is when you fight that big monster in Arthas's floating castle and it has the health of some end Dungeon boss but it lets you do crazy damage to it and it do barely any damage to you, it still takes like 15 mins to kill. I don't understand that, it's like the level system in mobs means nothing anymore. I remember the last quest where you go to fight off people with Arthas or something and you're immune to it all but you cannot do any damage, so you sit there and watch, it feels so broken.

I just hate the new stuff in WoW the game just feels like a mess of new and old code and the old code cannot cope with the new stuff.

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3394

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

4/23/12 10:59:23 AM#15
Originally posted by tixylix

I loved what they had setup for Vanguards world, it had my MMO dream of sailing across to conts yourself. I just wish the world wasn't so barren and uninteresting to explore, the character models were good and they added content lol.

You might want to check back in summer or autumn then, they are going F2P and they might do new content afterwards.

Nothing sure about it yet, though.

  BigAndShiny

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/11
Posts: 177

4/23/12 11:34:02 AM#16

Couldn't agree more with the OP. 

That feeling when you first looked out over the mountains of Dun Morough or the fields of Kalimdor was amazing.  It truly felt like you were in another time, and could just lose yourself in this fantasy world.  I remember opening the world map and comparing the amount of space I travelled in levels 1-5 to the size of both continents and I was astounded.  When I first walked into Ironforge/ Stormwind, that was great too.      

Everything from the SW/IF tram, to the gryphon rides, to the boats and the instances was great.

 

If you look on the back of the original 2004 World of Warcraft retail box, there are 3 words on the top, and they sum up everything that was brilliant about the game.  

"A World Awaits..."

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

4/23/12 12:03:23 PM#17
Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Robsolf

I can't help but notice that when people tend to list their favorite MMO, it more often than not turns out to be something they can no longer play.  Or in some cases, an MMO that they were never able to play (see MEO).

I have to wonder how much of that involves crimson tinted contacts. 

Why is it so difficult to believe that not everyone's favorite game is something current? Do you really believe that every new game is better than every old game? Have you played any old games? We've given legitimate reasons for our opinions how about giving one for yours?

It's interesting that you go for the "if you like newer games better than new ones, you're probably a noob" line right off the bat.  Especially since Vanilla WoW isn't what most would consider to be an "old game". 

And when, exactly, did I say this? What post were you reading?

As for Vanilla WoW...8 years is pretty old for an MMORPG. Its only 1 year younger than Final Fantasy XI.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

4/23/12 12:59:09 PM#18

Man.... need to pass out the chapstick in this thread.

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 871

4/23/12 1:18:50 PM#19

Vanilla WoW

1) I think it took me about six months to level to 60, I was a very slow leveler.

2) I died a lot, it really didn't take that much, just grabbing aggro on a few extra mobs.

3) I started off as a Warrior but really had no understanding on how to tank. I remember trying to do dungeons without a shield.

4) My brother had been playing, we lived in different states so it was a good way for us to hang out.

5) There was a bit of a grind to it. Especially if you were trying to get rep.

6) I really didn't use the auction house that well. so I was always short on gold, I remember it taking forever getting enough gold to buy the riding skill for my first mount at level 40.

7) some dungeons were tough to find groups for, it seemed no one wanted to do Uldaman. Unfortunately I loved the big dungeons. (the ones everyone seemed to hate) It wasn't till years later with the dungeon finder that I did all the Vanilla dungeons.

8) Overall I had a really good time in Vanilla wow. I made a ton of rookie MMO mistakes but also made some friends.

 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4159

4/23/12 1:22:29 PM#20
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Vanilla WoW

1) I think it took me about six months to level to 60, I was a very slow leveler.

2) I died a lot, it really didn't take that much, just grabbing aggro on a few extra mobs.

3) I started off as a Warrior but really had no understanding on how to tank. I remember trying to do dungeons without a shield.

4) My brother had been playing, we lived in different states so it was a good way for us to hang out.

5) There was a bit of a grind to it. Especially if you were trying to get rep.

6) I really didn't use the auction house that well. so I was always short on gold, I remember it taking forever getting enough gold to buy the riding skill for my first mount at level 40.

7) some dungeons were tough to find groups for, it seemed no one wanted to do Uldaman. Unfortunately I loved the big dungeons. (the ones everyone seemed to hate) It wasn't till years later with the dungeon finder that I did all the Vanilla dungeons.

8) Overall I had a really good time in Vanilla wow. I made a ton of rookie MMO mistakes but also made some friends.

 

A+ I think most of us had the same events happen and I miss those times. I liked your honesty!

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

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