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General Gaming  » Why the sudden omission of Night/Day cycles and dynamic weather?

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82 posts found
  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3733

RIP City of Heroes!

4/20/12 8:32:47 PM#41
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by stayontarget

One reason is its effect on lag to some extent and another reason is without a cycle the developers have more freedom to set the overall mood of the zone / area.

Not just true.

Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.

If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.

Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..

I suspect this was removed because of complaints.  Becareful for what you wish for or complain about.

  Cypt1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 284

4/20/12 8:53:12 PM#42
Originally posted by terrant

I not only miss weather and day/night cycles...I miss it when night MEANT SOMETHING.

 

WoW has night. It means everything is slightly less bright, and has a blueish tint. Yay. Some windows have lights in em. Yay.

 

Remember in EQ when you farmed will-o-wisps for a greater lightstone because wihtout a light source you were a dead man? I'd like that again.

 

Back when EQ2 first launched, I remember having to buy a torch because it was so dark at night. As someone else already said, in SWG (pre-CU), at night  it was very dark on some worlds. I would usually activate a light, but even that only illuminated the area in direct proximity to your character. You still had to navigate through some very poorly illuminated locales.

The sound effects with EQ2's weather system were pretty spectacular.  (I only mention this because some games I've played really have not managed to simulate the sound effects as well as that game did.) Once, when I was wearing headphones and it started to rain in game, I glanced outside my window to ensure it wasn't raining outside also because the sound effects were that realistic. I also recall that FFXI had a weather system that actually impacted gameplay depending on certain factors.

I'm currently still playing TOR, and while I enjoy the story, I'm really craving an environment that at least experiences some physical variations from time to time, with a day/night cycle and a wide range of weather and related sound effects. I didn't play much of Rift, admittedly, and I won't be buying TERA regardless, but as someone who got my start with SWG years ago, I suppose I feel very disconnected from game environments that experience little in the way of shifting weather patterns or even just offering a day/night transition.

To sate my craving, I've just been playing Skyrim lately. Mabinogi has a very interesting weather system, but the extremely cartoonish graphics are off-putting for me, so I don't play that game much. GW2 *sounds* promising, but I've been disappointed enough times now (I registered for TOR's forums on 10/21/2008, to show you how long I naively waited for that game with my unrealistic expectations for it) so that I'm not jumping on the hype train anymore, period.

EDIT:

I should add it's not a game breaker for me if a day/night cycle doesn't exist (PSO is still one of my favorite online RPGs of all time, and it didn't have a weather or diurnial cycle), but it's something I really do wish we had in TOR. It would be amazing to see the twin suns setting on Tatooine, or to see Alderaan at night. I was amazed at just how different Taris looked in the evening (Republic characters see Taris during the day while Imperials see it at night). When I went there with my Imperial character, I was again reminded at how much I missed having a day/night cycle.

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

4/21/12 12:28:47 AM#43
Originally posted by Sharkypal
POriginally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Sharkypal

Agreed

I don't agree with devs saying it's a technical limitation. EQ, UO, AC and DAOC all had it and we didn't have 1/10th of the PC horsepower we have now.

It's simply down to laziness IMHO.

Yeah, I remember the first time I saw it started to rain in a MMO, it was an awesome feeling...

I also miss the pitch black nights those games had.

PRE-CU Dath at night during a storm was really spooky. You could hear the Rancors and Nightsisters but you couldn't always see them through the rain and blackness.

I'd love to see another MMO with that level of immersion, it really sucks you in :D

Precu SWG Dath was scary.  I still remember those aweful spiders scuttling toward me from the darkness.  Then there was the time I talked my friend into helping me find a baby rancor.  Traipsing through the dark woods....eeeek

  alexpoly

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 2

4/21/12 12:34:51 AM#44

I remember not leaving the cantina's because it was raining in swg and I didn't want my toon to get wet.

(a wet wookiee wasn't a pleasant thing)

 

ah to roleplay again....

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16620

4/21/12 12:45:00 AM#45
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Loke666

Not just true.

Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.

If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.

Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..

I suspect this was removed because of complaints.  Becareful for what you wish for or complain about.

I don´t think so, I never really heard anyone at all complain about it.

I think they just thought it was extra work, and since leveling is so fast nowadays people just spend a short time in any zone anyways so my guess is that they just don't bother putting more work than they have to in open zones.

My favorite drkness memories was from Lineage ( I played the western beta the few months it was up), the gods helped you there if it rained in the night, it was dark enough on a clear night. A torched helped, but it attracted mobs like moths and if you were in a pledgewar you asked to get PKed.

Good times.  :)

  xr00t3dx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/11
Posts: 282

4/21/12 12:49:06 AM#46

Originally posted by Puremallace


Originally posted by Boognishe

GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

Rift had it before GW2 :O

 

And many before Rift, whats your point?

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2642

4/21/12 12:50:33 AM#47

I would say they plugged those things into the time vs. profit calculation and found it to not be worth the time.  I don't see much pride in the craftsmanship of the newer games, their seems to be a lot of reused things and admitted things that save time/money...Very limited starter areas (or story that limits it, then its not so obvious)....

 

Companies always want to make money, but it seems its like someone is playing money ball with mmos, and adhering to some time/profit flow chart.

 

  chibineko89

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 109

4/21/12 12:51:19 AM#48
Originally posted by brody71
Originally posted by Asheram
Originally posted by brody71
Originally posted by Sharkypal
Originally posted by atticusbc
Originally posted by Boognishe

GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

wait it does? that... makes me so happy...

From the videos I have seen, it certainly looks like it does which is good news :D

it won't be anymore dynamic then the other games mentioned in this thread.  the day/night cycle is on a 4 hour loop. 

Hmm, a 4 hour loop sounds alot more dynamic than a 0 hour loop to me.

point being when things are programmed to happen it's far from dynamic.  (talking weather, obviously day/night has a cycle)

(night every 4 hours also seems like overkill to me,  shall see how it goes)

you mean like everything else in a game is programmed o.O

rifts in Rift

DEs in GW2

rifts in Tera

  chibineko89

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 109

4/21/12 12:53:18 AM#49
Originally posted by xr00t3dx

Originally posted by Puremallace


Originally posted by Boognishe

GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

Rift had it before GW2 :O

 

And many before Rift, whats your point?

rift also had DEs 1st but gw2 will have what seems to b much better ones

probably the same with the day/night cycle

granted rift is over a year old now so gw2 has an advantage there

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16620

4/21/12 12:54:21 AM#50
Originally posted by xr00t3dx

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Boognishe

GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

Rift had it before GW2 :O

And many before Rift, whats your point?

I am pretty sure that was sarcasm...

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16620

4/21/12 12:57:53 AM#51
Originally posted by Xthos

I would say they plugged those things into the time vs. profit calculation and found it to not be worth the time.  I don't see much pride in the craftsmanship of the newer games, their seems to be a lot of reused things and admitted things that save time/money...Very limited starter areas (or story that limits it, then its not so obvious)....

Companies always want to make money, but it seems its like someone is playing money ball with mmos, and adhering to some time/profit flow chart.

You mean like EA or Activision? Nah, they would never be so mean...

To be honestly do many games seems like they only care if the screenshots and short vids look good, not if the world feels real.

I hope it will change in the future, what fun is it to play a thief if there is no night to stalk in?

  Grimrist000

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/10
Posts: 85

4/21/12 1:14:13 AM#52
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by xr00t3dx

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Boognishe

GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

Rift had it before GW2 :O

And many before Rift, whats your point?

I am pretty sure that was sarcasm...

think xr00t3dx screwed up the quote.

he was quoting Puremallace.

 

OT: devs cutting costs, or being lazy. 

  Kert

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 68

4/21/12 1:31:46 AM#53
Originally posted by brody71
Originally posted by Asheram
Originally posted by brody71
Originally posted by Sharkypal
Originally posted by atticusbc
Originally posted by Boognishe

GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..

wait it does? that... makes me so happy...

From the videos I have seen, it certainly looks like it does which is good news :D

it won't be anymore dynamic then the other games mentioned in this thread.  the day/night cycle is on a 4 hour loop. 

Hmm, a 4 hour loop sounds alot more dynamic than a 0 hour loop to me.

point being when things ae programmed to happen it's far from dynamic.  (talking weather, obviously day/night has a cycle)

(night every 4 hours also seems like overkill to me,  shall see how it goes)

Yeah... thats so lame a 4 hour loop. Imagine if the day night cycles fit into a 24 hour time period, with the sunrise, and sunset on a dynamic loop relating to the worlds distance from the sun, and orbit around that sun every 365 days.... That'd be so awesome....

 

Fallen Earth

Lord of the Rings Online

Uncharted Waters Online

Just to name a few, all have day/night and weather. Granted some are less dynamic than others.

I loved the sandstorms on Tatooine in SWG. I really do think that some of these type of small features are the reason why a large number of newer games fail to immerse their subscribers/players. Everything feels stale and static. Even a day/night loop breaks up the monotony sometimes.

  M1sf1t

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1599

4/21/12 1:47:22 AM#54


Originally posted by Loke666
Agreed, I actually wish that the games went further instead and added seasons instead of taking stuff like this away.
At least GW2 have it, I hope it will "inspire" other devs to add it to newer games.
I would really love to see all seasons in a MMO, it is technically possible...

Sage of Ryzom is the only game I know that has seasons on top of weather and day/night cycles. In fact its the only game that ties in the availability of certain harvested resources (which include migrating mobs) with the in game seasons.

Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.

Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:

GW2 (+LoL and BF3)

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

4/21/12 1:50:40 AM#55

From my experience mmo that don't have day/night cycle are more the exception that the rule. Weather in an other hand is not a very old feature, maybe from 2000 or around, and most mmo don't have it.

But the problem with it is more like it lost its meaningless. In old rpg, darkness was really a threat, you needed to have torchlight in dungeons, and running around by night seriously reduce your vision (diablo is an example everyone know). But since pretty much every player would use some kind of cheat or raise their gamma level on screen, so dark night was scrapped entirely. To achieve that properly they would probably have to handle dark night on a texture level, i'm pretty damn sure it is possible to do, but its just not obvious to achieve, and well at this point i don't think any game company even want to make some non obvious work, they already have very hard time doing the obvious so.

When it come to weather being a meaningful feature in a game, i think i know just a single one, very old 2d game where weather is actually full part of the game, and your character have to wear warmer or colder depending on the seasons and weather to survive, a single game over probably the thousands i played since i was born. Even pen&paper game couldn't handle that much details as weather, computer game could definitely have done it if there development went the Muds route of richness and boiling imagination, but well, monetary needs and shallow packaging being more important as it seam, you can be sure this kind of feature won't  come before few decades. You just have to wait for a genius to do it first so that everyone can copy/paste his work for pretty much zero investment, lol.

  UsualSuspect

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1219

4/21/12 2:02:52 AM#56
Originally posted by VirgoThree

I'd have to imagine the main answer to this question would have to be art direction. In SWTOR all of the areas are precisely laid out in a certain composition and the lighting is no exception to this. The lights are static so that they can control exactly how the area will look on first arrival and it all flows together into the one artistic vision for that vista. 

Dynamic lightning definitely throws a wrench into controlling the mood, composition, and overall feel of the scene. I do not really agree with making everything static, but it is not a game breaker for me.

I really doubt it is a technical limitation, or project limitation in terms of cutting costs. It would just make most sense it was purely an artistic decision.

Ah yes, Bioware and their 'Artistic Vision'. We all know how well that's working out for them - see ME3 ending controversy. The thing I find about TOR's 'scenes', as in the cut scenes when you're talking to someone, is that they all feel so dry and clinical. If that's the vision they had then great for them, but I think I'd much rather see a more dynamic world where the npc's might actually move when the rain starts. Hell, with TOR, just to see them move at all would be great, the image of the exterior of the Jedi Temple on Tython is still burned into my brain:

Forward to 1:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

That's one interesting artistic vision they have there.

 

  Kert

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 68

4/21/12 1:23:52 PM#57
Originally posted by UsualSuspect

Ah yes, Bioware and their 'Artistic Vision'. We all know how well that's working out for them - see ME3 ending controversy. The thing I find about TOR's 'scenes', as in the cut scenes when you're talking to someone, is that they all feel so dry and clinical. If that's the vision they had then great for them, but I think I'd much rather see a more dynamic world where the npc's might actually move when the rain starts. Hell, with TOR, just to see them move at all would be great, the image of the exterior of the Jedi Temple on Tython is still burned into my brain:

Forward to 1:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

That's one interesting artistic vision they have there.

 

The complete lack of life in SW:TOR is one of the big reasons I left... of course there are 50 more, but the complate lack of immersion and believability of the environment is an issue that bugs me.

I wanted to see the twin sunset on Tatooine, I wanted to experience the city lights of Coruscant at night (of course not being inside 'tunnels' would help that even more), seeing and expreiencing a snowstorm on Hoth would be impressive.

But none of those things happen.

As much as some of the design decisions and the direction of the game have turned me off, I will say this for LOTRO, the environment is gorgeous.

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1133

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

4/21/12 1:29:08 PM#58

The industry is steering away from depth, complexity, and anything else that might deter an overseas subscriber. 

 

Even rain and weather shifts can be too dynamic and RP'ish for gamers.  Better to just focus on battlegrounds and a button on the screen that says "push here for pvp."

 

Considering the mass market that is Korea and China, you might want to just start learning a new language if you plan to stay in the cash shop mmorpg genre.

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

4/21/12 1:32:05 PM#59

I may have a bit of a bias here, as I'm colorblind and have trouble seeing when games go overboard with the evening look, but I never thought day/night cycles were immersion-breaking or even mattered much? There are a few games where specific things happen or specific monsters activate with the change in cycle, that's a little different. But for the most part, does it really matter whether you're killing under the sun or under the moon?

 

Unless I'm suddenly unable to play adequately because it's too dark, I don't think I've ever even noticed the change in time/weather in games that have the feature.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Melisandre

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/12
Posts: 2

4/21/12 1:45:23 PM#60

Most MMOs I've played have had a day/night cycle and a few of them had a noticeable weather system. Even WoW had some of the craziest rain storms I've seen in a game. The nights in most MMOs haven't been that impressive because it never really feels like its DARK enough. SWG had one of the darkest nights I can remember.

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