Originally posted by k-damage

The theory why TOR haters can't let it go is simpler than the (great) picture you posted, OP :

It's just because these people don't have anything more important in their life to think about.

 

This is not meant to be an offense, but really, isn't it true ? There are plenty of other futuristic universes, using the same master/disciple/powerup/rebellion formula, but yet people are still obsessed with Star Wars. No, please don't say that it's a proof that Star Wars is superior, it's not, it's just an unrealistic hype that long time fans have created, and nurrished from its own existence. People are wanting so hard to be that Luke Skywalker/Darth Vader/Kenobi that they can't stop believing they're in another world. They created their own little parallel universe and refuse to look anywhere else.

 

Which is sad btw, as Star Wars worshipping has always revolved around 5 hours of acting and special effects (as everything that followed up was derived from these very 3 movies). 5 goddamn hours .... Do you realize ? So many angry/fanatic people, conventions, comics, books ... just repeating 5 damn hours again and again for 20 years. 

 

To resume, they are trapped in their imaginary world, just like this guy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIv88cC86r0

The horse is fracking dead. They really should let it go and open their eyes to either another universe, or better, to the real world, which does have some really, really more serious problems actually to bitch about.

Great post, the amount of Star Wars fans living in a freaking childhood dream world is amazing the original films are not even that good comapared to a lot of film that were produced in the 70's and 80's. I never will understand the fanaticism people have for shoddy entertainment and I watched Star Wars in the cinema in 1977 but find it really not a good film compared to 100's of others, George Lucas is not a great director. The Indian Jones films blow the Star Wars films into the weeds for quality and thats just for starters.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Bardus

....to the fans of TOR why the haters just can't let it go.

I tried to put this into words but all I do is create a wall of run on text. I have a theory because TOR has generated such spite from so many people that it must go beyond social degeneration of people loving to hate like TOR's fans claim. I realized why I don't like the game and willing to bet I'm not the only one feeling my way.

I'm posting a picture that I bet most everyone has seen and I ask if anyone else can put into words how it pertains not to the movies but to TOR and the current state of the franchise.

I ask to keep your post constructive and on topic. I really want to know 1st if anyone understands what I'm doing and 2nd to help the fans understand why we don't want to simply shut up or 3rd that I really am simply out of my mind.

 

 

 

Two things..

 

1: How do you think Actors learn how to act? they do not go to R.A.D.A and have access to all the stuff in the first picture they act in empty spaces either on their own of in groups with nothing more than their imagination. Also most stage plays have very little production in them with regards to props and scenery but put on amazingly believable performances without the need to surround themselves with all the stuff in the first picture.

 

2: Guys, Star Wars was a kids film in 1977 and was still a kids film in 2005 but you are no longer a kid so see it with adult eyes and in the case of most Star Wars fans cynical eyes. All I can say is when the generation that was first exposed to the modern prequels grow up they'll be bemoaning the same thing as youylot of grumpy old men.  Just get over it, things chance thats a fact of life.  

So it's times change and we all need to change too? I wouldn't expect that from a guy with "disco will never die" in his avatar.

Very excellent tirade on the whole Star Wars films phenomenon. The same logic applies to any entertainment medium you care to apply it to. Most recently MMOs.

>CLICKY<

Originally posted by Calerxes

 

 

Great post, the amount of Star Wars fans living in a freaking childhood dream world is amazing the original films are not even that good comapared to a lot of film that were produced in the 70's and 80's. I never will understand the fanaticism people have for shoddy entertainment and I watched Star Wars in the cinema in 1977 but find it really not a good film compared to 100's of others, George Lucas is not a great director. The Indian Jones films blow the Star Wars films into the weeds for quality and thats just for starters.

I've got to step in here.. While you're right that some of these fan reactions can get a bit over the top. Star Wars was great to many for one reason, characters. While some performances were campy, (luke, Leia) some were very memorable. Much like Firefly IMO.

There was a level of serious talent portrayed in the original trilogy that was missing in the prequels. Namely actors the caliber of Peter Cushing, Alec Guiness, Harrison Ford, David Prowse/J.E. Jones, Henson/OZ. Even with medicore directing, these actors and their performance demanded your attention when they were on screen. Couple that with the exotic nature of the OG's you have the makings for a lasting franchise sure to gain the attention of many fans.

Yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with loving Star Wars universe indeed. I was only speaking about people who don't like what it became and can't let it go :)

Well the would-be life coaches are here to give an elementary lesson on developmentally appropriate enthusiasms. Great.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Well the would-be life coaches are here to give an elementary lesson on developmentally appropriate enthusiasms. Great.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by ignore_me

Well the would-be life coaches are here to give an elementary lesson on developmentally appropriate enthusiasms. Great.

 

I struggle to understand those who can't get over the fact that the game they have invested themselves in is both shit and tanking and keep going on about the "haters" as if it is their fault.

 More opinion not based in fact from you it seems. It's kinda pathetic that some haters, yourself included, have such time to invest in a forum in a game they are not interested in. Oh and I will laugh at you if you list x-fire as proof.

Originally posted by RodimusPrime

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by ignore_me

Well the would-be life coaches are here to give an elementary lesson on developmentally appropriate enthusiasms. Great.

 

I struggle to understand those who can't get over the fact that the game they have invested themselves in is both shit and tanking and keep going on about the "haters" as if it is their fault.

 More opinion not based in fact from you it seems. It's kinda pathetic that some haters, yourself included, have such time to invest in a forum in a game they are not interested in. Oh and I will laugh at you if you list x-fire as proof.

The original trilogy changed the way we think about futuristic sci-fi.  Prior to those movies, everything in the genre was clean and perfect to a point.  You didn't see broken down space ships or ones that wouldn't start.  It's this specific atmosphere that gave those movies their soul and exactly what's lacked ever since.  As much as Lucas laments the technical limitations of that time, it gave the pictures more realism.

I honestly never looked at the originals as kids movies where as the new ones were obviously designed for his own kids.  You don't make movies like this written for kids, it never works.  If you look at films from back then with kids in it, they were written for adults but kids understood and loved them.  I'm not sure what's happened in the last 35 years, but it's rare for a kids movie these days to be written well and written for adults.  For all the technology we have, maybe we've gotten stupider?

What we've learned from both the new films and TOR is that an unlimited budget cannot make up for terrible writing and poor decisions from nothing but yes men.

Originally posted by Alders

The original trilogy changed the way we think about futuristic sci-fi.  Prior to those movies, everything in the genre was clean and perfect to a point.  You didn't see broken down space ships or ones that wouldn't start.  It's this specific atmosphere that gave those movies their soul and exactly what's lacked ever since.  As much as Lucas laments the technical limitations of that time, it gave the pictures more realism.

I honestly never looked at the originals as kids movies where as the new ones were obviously designed for his own kids.  You don't make movies like this written for kids, it never works.  If you look at films from back then with kids in it, they were written for adults but kids understood and loved them.  I'm not sure what's happened in the last 35 years, but it's rare for a kids movie these days to be written well and written for adults.  For all the technology we have, maybe we've gotten stupider?

 

What we've learned from both the new films and TOR is that an unlimited budget cannot make up for terrible writing and poor decisions from nothing but yes men.

+1 This man gets it.

At the end of the day times change; not sure when but invariably marketing is such a dominant force these days that they know during the initial planning stage whether or not something can be viable...

From my perspective the initial Star Wars was a "B" movie with cookie cutter archetypes at best; but because it felt tangible/real and showed the flaws any society displays, so it captured our attention.  Add in the fact that only 5-10 movies came out per year that's all you got.  So copying an idea took too much time and other studios coudln't compete like today.

Look at movies like:

Avatar - Dances with Wolves or Disney's Atlantis with 3D tricks.

Hunger Games: Battle Royale (A complete copy) or Running Man.

Studios can do more  even TV can be better too but why?  You'll still go see crap because what's the alternative.  Look at Madden, it remained unchanged from the 90' until 2K changed the way it should look.  Then EA removed the competition in 2006 and what's changed since then?  Not much, but it still sells well.  Personally I don't know why EA even puts out a new game, just  update the rosters and bypass the retailers. 

As a side opinion, if I were Prowse I'd be upset that Lucas removed him the final scene and put in Hayden Christiansan.  I mean comeon,  He wears the suit for 5 seconds and gets the scene?  Just another string of bad decisions...

Movies came out slower back then, yes, but they were original and had story depth. Today we see nothing but CGI replace writers for movie content.

I was a teen when Star wars came out, watched star trek on prime time growing up. At the time these were concept shattering ideas that challenged convential thinking. Do you know how shocked my parents were when Ohura kissed Kirk that very first time? It took them weeks to get over it. What do we see coming out today, retreads. John Carter anyone? Avengers? seriously? The problem is corporation, they are incompetent play it safe entities, that only want established ideas to invest in. If these same companies like EA were around during the Ford Motor days, they would have bought him out and put horses back in front of the Model A.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Calerxes

 

 

Great post, the amount of Star Wars fans living in a freaking childhood dream world is amazing the original films are not even that good comapared to a lot of film that were produced in the 70's and 80's. I never will understand the fanaticism people have for shoddy entertainment and I watched Star Wars in the cinema in 1977 but find it really not a good film compared to 100's of others, George Lucas is not a great director. The Indian Jones films blow the Star Wars films into the weeds for quality and thats just for starters.

I've got to step in here.. While you're right that some of these fan reactions can get a bit over the top. Star Wars was great to many for one reason, characters. While some performances were campy, (luke, Leia) some were very memorable. Much like Firefly IMO.

There was a level of serious talent portrayed in the original trilogy that was missing in the prequels. Namely actors the caliber of Peter Cushing, Alec Guiness, Harrison Ford, David Prowse/J.E. Jones, Henson/OZ. Even with medicore directing, these actors and their performance demanded your attention when they were on screen. Couple that with the exotic nature of the OG's you have the makings for a lasting franchise sure to gain the attention of many fans.

OH! you mean like Liam Neeson, Terence Stamp, Samual L Jackson, Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor, Keira Knightly, Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid.... Nah! there wasn't any actor of calibre in the prequels.

Star Wars was a phenomenom because it was original for its time and as a kid of only 7 it was the mutts nuts to me and my friends, but I/we have grown up and see it for what it is a fun but simplistic kids action film. The great legacy (see what I did there ) that George Lucas has given us is the universe it is set in and thats something to be thankful for for sure, but we should never think that it is any more than that, this is not a David Lean, Alfred Hitchcock, David Lynch level of film making here. Though my favorite thing in these debates is the irony is that Star wars is only a cash cow to George Lucas now, people seemingly forget (or were never there) it was the film that started it all back in 1977 with the mass producing and marketing of merchandise on a scale never seen before. 

Originally posted by Bunks

Movies came out slower back then, yes, but they were original and had story depth. Today we see nothing but CGI replace writers for movie content.

I was a teen when Star wars came out, watched star trek on prime time growing up. At the time these were concept shattering ideas that challenged convential thinking. Do you know how shocked my parents were when Ohura kissed Kirk that very first time? It took them weeks to get over it. What do we see coming out today, retreads. John Carter anyone? Avengers? seriously? The problem is corporation, they are incompetent play it safe entities, that only want established ideas to invest in. If these same companies like EA were around during the Ford Motor days, they would have bought him out and put horses back in front of the Model A.

I think that stuff is all so diluted now because access is instant and it's everywhere. I remember getting to see pictures from Empire Strikes back in a book at the library and I was excited to see it again because I hadn't seen it since I saw the movie in the theatre. Today it's different.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Calerxes

 

 

Great post, the amount of Star Wars fans living in a freaking childhood dream world is amazing the original films are not even that good comapared to a lot of film that were produced in the 70's and 80's. I never will understand the fanaticism people have for shoddy entertainment and I watched Star Wars in the cinema in 1977 but find it really not a good film compared to 100's of others, George Lucas is not a great director. The Indian Jones films blow the Star Wars films into the weeds for quality and thats just for starters.

I've got to step in here.. While you're right that some of these fan reactions can get a bit over the top. Star Wars was great to many for one reason, characters. While some performances were campy, (luke, Leia) some were very memorable. Much like Firefly IMO.

There was a level of serious talent portrayed in the original trilogy that was missing in the prequels. Namely actors the caliber of Peter Cushing, Alec Guiness, Harrison Ford, David Prowse/J.E. Jones, Henson/OZ. Even with medicore directing, these actors and their performance demanded your attention when they were on screen. Couple that with the exotic nature of the OG's you have the makings for a lasting franchise sure to gain the attention of many fans.

 

OH! you mean like Liam Neeson, Terence Stamp, Samual L Jackson, Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor, Keira Knightly, Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid.... Nah! there wasn't any actor of calibre in the prequels.

 

Star Wars was a phenomenom because it was original for its time and as a kid of only 7 it was the mutts nuts to me and my friends, but I/we have grown up and see it for what it is a fun but simplistic kids action film. The great legacy (see what I did there ) that George Lucas has given us is the universe it is set in and thats something to be thankful for for sure, but we should never think that it is any more than that, this is not a David Lean, Alfred Hitchcock, David Lynch level of film making here. Though my favorite thing in these debates is the irony is that Star wars is only a cash cow to George Lucas now, people seemingly forget (or were never there) it was the film that started it all back in 1977 with the mass producing and marketing of merchandise on a scale never seen before. 

This. I was a kid when the original trilogy came out. I thought it was the best thing ever until I grew up and saw fillms that didn't need music and special effects to tell a good story. Now when I go back to watch those old films, they seem bland and so predictable. George Lucas was NEVER a good writer and in my opinion an average director. I liken him to Gene Rodenberry, someone who had a great idea and got way too much credit for the work that others brought to it. In my view his contemporaries(Coppola,Dipalma,Speilberg,Scorceses) were far better.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Bunks

Movies came out slower back then, yes, but they were original and had story depth. Today we see nothing but CGI replace writers for movie content.

I was a teen when Star wars came out, watched star trek on prime time growing up. At the time these were concept shattering ideas that challenged convential thinking. Do you know how shocked my parents were when Ohura kissed Kirk that very first time? It took them weeks to get over it. What do we see coming out today, retreads. John Carter anyone? Avengers? seriously? The problem is corporation, they are incompetent play it safe entities, that only want established ideas to invest in. If these same companies like EA were around during the Ford Motor days, they would have bought him out and put horses back in front of the Model A.

I think that stuff is all so diluted now because access is instant and it's everywhere. I remember getting to see pictures from Empire Strikes back in a book at the library and I was excited to see it again because I hadn't seen it since I saw the movie in the theatre. Today it's different.

It's funny you mention Empire Strikes back.Star Wars A new Hope was only a roll out success. I saw it the first night and there werent any lines, sure it was packed, but it wasn't until a few weeks later that the lines to the theater began. But when Empire came out, I remember having to stand in line to get the tickets the day before, and still waited hours on a movie line. The best part was that the movie was better than expected. The third was not so much. But it was the wait between movies that built up anticipation. Instant gratification is a let down. It also forces creative thinking to be rushed and artificial.

Everything now is based on making bucks for the company that funds it. Damn the content. To be honest, it's how we reward vernture capital now versus pre-1980.  I make twice the money I earn investing than I do with my two companies that actually make things. A resort RV park and a small tanning and cosmetic export company. Our tax code and monetary system rewards short term investment and punishes long term creative thinking.

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Bunks

Movies came out slower back then, yes, but they were original and had story depth. Today we see nothing but CGI replace writers for movie content.

I was a teen when Star wars came out, watched star trek on prime time growing up. At the time these were concept shattering ideas that challenged convential thinking. Do you know how shocked my parents were when Ohura kissed Kirk that very first time? It took them weeks to get over it. What do we see coming out today, retreads. John Carter anyone? Avengers? seriously? The problem is corporation, they are incompetent play it safe entities, that only want established ideas to invest in. If these same companies like EA were around during the Ford Motor days, they would have bought him out and put horses back in front of the Model A.

I think that stuff is all so diluted now because access is instant and it's everywhere. I remember getting to see pictures from Empire Strikes back in a book at the library and I was excited to see it again because I hadn't seen it since I saw the movie in the theatre. Today it's different.

It's funny you mention Empire Strikes back.Star Wars A new Hope was only a roll out success. I saw it the first night and there werent any lines, sure it was packed, but it wasn't until a few weeks later that the lines to the theater began. But when Empire came out, I remember having to stand in line to get the tickets the day before, and still waited hours on a movie line. The best part was that the movie was better than expected. The third was not so much. But it was the wait between movies that built up anticipation. Instant gratification is a let down. It also forces creative thinking to be rushed and artificial.

Everything now is based on making bucks for the company that funds it. Damn the content. To be honest, it's how we reward vernture capital now versus pre-1980.  I make twice the money I earn investing than I do with my two companies that actually make things. A resort RV park and a small tanning and cosmetic export company. Our tax code and monetary system rewards short term investment and punishes long term creative thinking.

I find this attitude hilarious and slightly sad really as its seems to be quite common amongst us 30/40 somethings. Remember when your Dad said the same things about the things you found interesting in your teens? I sure do and I'm never turning into my cynical old man I can assure the world. The best way to some this is up is with a very famous and great bands name.... spoken in your Dads voice... The Who?

Have a song as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hje28F-IhLo&feature=related

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Distopia

.

I've got to step in here.. While you're right that some of these fan reactions can get a bit over the top. Star Wars was great to many for one reason, characters. While some performances were campy, (luke, Leia) some were very memorable. Much like Firefly IMO.

There was a level of serious talent portrayed in the original trilogy that was missing in the prequels. Namely actors the caliber of Peter Cushing, Alec Guiness, Harrison Ford, David Prowse/J.E. Jones, Henson/OZ. Even with medicore directing, these actors and their performance demanded your attention when they were on screen. Couple that with the exotic nature of the OG's you have the makings for a lasting franchise sure to gain the attention of many fans.

 

OH! you mean like Liam Neeson, Terence Stamp, Samual L Jackson, Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor, Keira Knightly, Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid.... Nah! there wasn't any actor of calibre in the prequels.

 

 

Aside from Lee (who wasn't given nearly enough screen time), I don't count the actors you've mentioned to be of the calibre of the likes of Cushing and Guiness in the least bit. Even if they may be good actors/actresses.

The only one who may come close is Jackson, but that is more based on the persona of the bad ass.

Originally posted by Alders

The original trilogy changed the way we think about futuristic sci-fi.  Prior to those movies, everything in the genre was clean and perfect to a point.  You didn't see broken down space ships or ones that wouldn't start.  It's this specific atmosphere that gave those movies their soul and exactly what's lacked ever since.  As much as Lucas laments the technical limitations of that time, it gave the pictures more realism.

I honestly never looked at the originals as kids movies where as the new ones were obviously designed for his own kids.  You don't make movies like this written for kids, it never works.  If you look at films from back then with kids in it, they were written for adults but kids understood and loved them.  I'm not sure what's happened in the last 35 years, but it's rare for a kids movie these days to be written well and written for adults.  For all the technology we have, maybe we've gotten stupider?

 

What we've learned from both the new films and TOR is that an unlimited budget cannot make up for terrible writing and poor decisions from nothing but yes men.

I have to disagree, futuristic SF was certainly not clean and perfect before Star Wars. There was plenty of science fiction realism around long before Star Wars, even from the 70s themselves I can think of gritty SF like A Clockwork Orange, Escape from the Planet of the Apes, Omega Man, Silent Running in 1973 (a very realistic and dirty ship that was), Death Race 2000, Rollerball... etc...

Probably the dirtiest ship of all run by a bunch of hippies... Dark Star.

Ok so 2001 had nice clean ships that worked, but also a bonkers computer.

It did maintain realism but if anything Star Wars also moved away from the usual dystopian SF of the 70s. It was newish because it was high adventure and space opera as opposed to gloomy near future disaster movie set on Earth. That's what caught the public imagination, pure escapism from depressing films about annihilation and a grim future world. The biggest draw was that it was set in 'A long time ago in a galaxy far far away' and not 'in your country in a few years time'.

I haven't played SWTOR yet. Is it any good?