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General Discussion  » GW2 the melting pot of MMO

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  grimm6th

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/10
Posts: 978

4/15/12 5:35:34 PM#41
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by steeler989
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

 Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

People are going to give GW2 original credit for something DEs are not from now until the end of mmorpgs.  You can't change their minds.

DEs are what they are.  If another game comes along and makes an even more dynamic questing system, that does everything that GW2's DEs do and more, then that will be the big new thing for a while.

For now, though, we have GW2's DEs and they seem pretty fun to me.  Personally, I am satisfied that Anet managed to put other things (reknown hearts, skill point challenges, waypoint hunting, map exploration, which was previously known as cartographer in GW1) in that will satisfy my completionist urges without messing with the public nature of DEs.

I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.

  FlawSGI

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1399

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

4/15/12 5:46:49 PM#42
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by GWFandaddy

I read, or watched an interview with an Anet dev, who talked about how they took what they thought were good/fun ideas from other mmo's, RPG's, first person shooters, and other genres and incorporated those with there own ideas.  What's wrong with that?  Sounds like a damn good idea to me.  I don't know how many times I've been in a game where I thought, "this game would be even better if it had concepts from any number of other games."  We all have I'm sure.  But of course there's no pleasing the detractors.  "they just stole this from _________, nothing innovative about that."  What's that old saying?  "You can lead a troll to logic, but, you can't boost his IQ."

 

Bada bing Bada boom check mate.

 I agree. There just is no pleasing some. Wonder what will be complained about or over analyzed next? I feel the team has done enough for the game to differentiate itself from what the other 6+ years of MMO's have been doing that it cannot be labled a clone but others still find ways to make an argument. I can sorta see where the OP was coming from but I don't agree.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

4/15/12 6:10:40 PM#43
It would be more correct to say its the melting pot of Themeparks, not MMOs.
  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

 
OP  4/15/12 6:19:04 PM#44

okay, didn't realize how some can take GW2 a Melting pot a bad thing.

I did state that because it contains so many different aspects from everything that existed and those that they took was what was fun. IT will make it very popular.

And thats not a bad thing.

All it came down to is MMO is meant to be fun, by taking everything thats fun, GW2 will be fun.

So why is it so wrong for GW2 to evolve those concepts that it took.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

4/15/12 6:44:51 PM#45

GW2 has been in development for almost 5 1/2 years and they've been openly discussing many of the game's features for a few years now, so the first mistake one can make is to assume that X feature was copied from Y MMO that came out in the last year.

Dynamic Events are clearly a much more evolved form of intermittent content than WAR public quests or Rift's Rifts. PQs were static, three stage events that repeated over and over on a very tight time schedule. Players could succeed or fail, but player actions never influenced the game world, caused the PQ to branch and none effected other PQs. Rifts aren't much different than PQs. Rather than repeating every 10 minutes, the schedules are less predictable and if enough Rifts are not defeated, an invasion can result, but that is still very simplistic vs. what GW2 Dynamic Events and Meta Events look to offer.

Even if one insists on drawing parallels, GW2 is the first MMO or even RPG I'm aware of that has utilized Dynamic, branching content as the main form of PVE content, replacing the traditional quest system found elsewhere.

Other games have attempted to add an action element to MMORPG combat, but none have designed character skills in a way where most skills do more than just provide raw damage and where the proper situational, tactical use of skills in combat are important in managing combat encounters.

Removal of the traditional Trinity of Tank/Spank/Heal also have a huge impact on comabt in the game as encounters are no longer rendered completely predictable due to their need to cater to the narrow strategic "challenge" that a Trinity centric game design requires.

Which other MMOs follow a flat leveling curve? Which others offer a branching personal story? Which other MMOs dynamically scale down your level for lower level regions, while still awarding you XP and loot appropriate for your true level? Which other MMOs offer a downed state? Or a system where half your skills are linked to your weapon set? Or replace mob tapping with a system that rewards all players combating a mob as much XP and loot as they would have received fighting it solo? Which offer structured PVP as a seperate mode of play, while supporting casual play, informal player created tournaments along with formal team based tournaments that can last a week, a month or a year? A structured PVP system where everyone is max level, with max stats, max gear and where skill is what matters most, not gear you aquired through some gear grind? The list goes on...

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

4/15/12 6:50:40 PM#46

so if WvW pvp really is instanced.im assuming they do in fact have actual world pvp right

meaning i can grab some buddies,go out into the world and just start slaughtering people? cuz one of the things thats pretty much a huge negative check mark to me in my current mmo is the fact they pretty much scrapped real world pvp

im still kinda meh on the whole dodge system thing though but i dont know.the upcoming beta has no nda so maybe the best time to start askin about aspects im unsure of would be whenever that beta is

 

 

 

 

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

4/15/12 6:57:41 PM#47
Originally posted by Torvaldr

RIFT didn't invent dynamic events either.  They were around before that in older games, but were generally relegated to periodic event periods.  Trion just improved upon and iterated the idea of a dynamic event.  This is what ANet is doing with them.  Hopefully Trion and others will take the ideas of incorporating quest chains into their dynamic events and push the idea even further.

And where is the public grouping feature or incentive for doing the public events? As I am sure Trion could tell you the incentive has to be enough to make people leave the cities or want to log on. GW2 events at end game from the look do not do any of these things.

 

This is where the sorry excuse of the game is B2P and if you do not like just wait for the next content patch or some crap. B2P is a complete and utter failure system of a payment model. ArenaNET can say screw you and we do what we want and answer to noone.

 

Tell me one thing. 7 million copies sold and barely 100k actually still playing actively. If TOR, WoW, or Rift had launched without jumping everyone would have unsubbed instead of paying for that crap which would have forced ArenaNET to actually add one of the most basic gaming features in history.

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

4/15/12 7:00:16 PM#48

swtor actually isnt doing to well to be honest

the pvp has been a joke for a while now.and world pvp? its pretty much gone now,and i doubt it will ever be worth doing.in terms of pve it looks ok and community well.its pretty much got the same garbage quality of people that world of warcraft had

not to mention the main argument is,the games great from 1 up to 49.but when you actually get to level cap,its pretty much a complete disaster

 

 

 

 

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

4/15/12 7:03:50 PM#49

in terms of b2p though.i dont really know how that works,but honestly.as long as the game has world pvp,and the future of pvp actually looks bright and not thrown on the back burner to other aspects of the game then i honestly dont care how b2p is

plus theres not a whole hell of alot of options in terms of quality mmorpgs out anyway.so might as well take what you can get

 

 

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

4/15/12 7:08:33 PM#50
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

This is very true.

 

Agreed, which reminds me of what STO promised, dynamic away missions.

I was so pumped about this, they claimed to have built this program that could generate completly dynamic missions, you would never see the same one twice.

Too bad they never got it to work, that would have been sweet!

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4696

GW2 socialist.

4/15/12 7:13:04 PM#51

Rift didn't have dynamic events.  It had monster spawners that could NOT be failed.  They would either stay up until all the monsters were beaten or go away.  GW2's events can be failed, thus far more dynamic because the chain can break at any point and go in another direction where one can either succeed or fail again, and again, etc.  Also, Tera may have dodging but it's not the game that's going to popularize the mechanic.  Essentially you're correct though, the GW2 devs are big fans of older MMOs and want to bring what they found fun back into the spotlight.

  Dankus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/04
Posts: 10

4/15/12 7:16:18 PM#52
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

so if WvW pvp really is instanced.im assuming they do in fact have actual world pvp right

meaning i can grab some buddies,go out into the world and just start slaughtering people? cuz one of the things thats pretty much a huge negative check mark to me in my current mmo is the fact they pretty much scrapped real world pvp

im still kinda meh on the whole dodge system thing though but i dont know.the upcoming beta has no nda so maybe the best time to start askin about aspects im unsure of would be whenever that beta is

 

 

 

What they have is exactly like DAoC.  You cannot attack people in your home world.  In DaoC, my first MMO, the home world was safe.  You had to go past doors, or later on, zone into a huge Open world and PvP there.  That is exactly how GW2 is doing it.  You zone into a huge world where PvE and PvP occur with 2 other servers.  It is no different, besides the fact that the servers you meet in that world rotate after two weeks.  

Yes, in WoW on PvP servers, and in certain zones, you could attack anybody in the world but that was not even close the the main source of PvP.  It was their small, instanced, battle grounds.

In GW2, you zone into a huge zone if you will where all three sides have a territory.  You can stay close to your territory or venture into the other sides.  Honestly, it is as close to DAoC style PvP as any game since then.

As far as the dodge system, it's not perma dodge.  You have to use it wisley and timley.  You have a type of endurance bar that needs to build back up before you can dodge.  So, it's not like anybody at any time can just roll and roll and roll from attacks.  It is actually a nice feature to use in a pinch.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4080

4/15/12 7:22:32 PM#53
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

So...would we say they are pulling a Blizzard 2004 WoW moment?  That's what WoW did but with games before 2004 and look how well that turned out for them.  Hence, why I can't wait to play GW2.  I wonder if it will cause a GW2 clone domino effect for the next 8 years.  Hmmm....

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

4/15/12 7:27:58 PM#54
Originally posted by Dankus
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

so if WvW pvp really is instanced.im assuming they do in fact have actual world pvp right

meaning i can grab some buddies,go out into the world and just start slaughtering people? cuz one of the things thats pretty much a huge negative check mark to me in my current mmo is the fact they pretty much scrapped real world pvp

im still kinda meh on the whole dodge system thing though but i dont know.the upcoming beta has no nda so maybe the best time to start askin about aspects im unsure of would be whenever that beta is

 

 

 

What they have is exactly like DAoC.  You cannot attack people in your home world.  In DaoC, my first MMO, they home world was safe.  You had to go past doors, or later on, zone into a huge Open world and PvP there.  That is exactly how GW2 is doing it.  You zone into a huge world where PvE and PvP occur with 2 other servers.  It is no different, besided the fact that the servers you meet in that world rotate after two weeks.  

Yes, in WoW on PvP servers, and in certain zones, you could attack anybody in the world but that was not even close the the main source of PvP.  It was their small, instanced, battle grounds.

In GW2, you zone into a huge zone if you will where all three sides have a territory.  You can stay close to your territory or venture into the other sides.  Honestly, it is as close to DAoC style PvP as any game since then.

so theres no actual zone where the WvW stuff happens,i was just under the assumption it was gonna work like how ilum worked in sw tor before it got messed up

 

 

  Dankus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/04
Posts: 10

4/15/12 7:34:22 PM#55
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
Originally posted by Dankus
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

so if WvW pvp really is instanced.im assuming they do in fact have actual world pvp right

meaning i can grab some buddies,go out into the world and just start slaughtering people? cuz one of the things thats pretty much a huge negative check mark to me in my current mmo is the fact they pretty much scrapped real world pvp

im still kinda meh on the whole dodge system thing though but i dont know.the upcoming beta has no nda so maybe the best time to start askin about aspects im unsure of would be whenever that beta is

 

 

 

What they have is exactly like DAoC.  You cannot attack people in your home world.  In DaoC, my first MMO, they home world was safe.  You had to go past doors, or later on, zone into a huge Open world and PvP there.  That is exactly how GW2 is doing it.  You zone into a huge world where PvE and PvP occur with 2 other servers.  It is no different, besided the fact that the servers you meet in that world rotate after two weeks.  

Yes, in WoW on PvP servers, and in certain zones, you could attack anybody in the world but that was not even close the the main source of PvP.  It was their small, instanced, battle grounds.

In GW2, you zone into a huge zone if you will where all three sides have a territory.  You can stay close to your territory or venture into the other sides.  Honestly, it is as close to DAoC style PvP as any game since then.

so theres no actual zone where the WvW stuff happens,i was just under the assumption it was gonna work like how ilum worked in sw tor before it got messed up

 

 

No, in your "home" world you cannot attack other players.  You won't even see players from the other servers at all.  You will only meet them in the mini games or the World PvP Zone, which is dedicated as the main PvP zone.  It's the huge World, if you will, where there are castles and keeps you take and defend by sieging and breaking down doors.  There are PvE objectives there too, and people will be fighting mobs so you can go around and gank players that are rolling around in that world.  But, again, that "world/zone" is an area you have to zone into.

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

4/15/12 7:42:38 PM#56
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
*snip*

so theres no actual zone where the WvW stuff happens,i was just under the assumption it was gonna work like how ilum worked in sw tor before it got messed up

I don't understand why you're even making these baseless assumptions, when if you were the least bit interested in GW2's World vs World, you would have done the minimal amount of research to know the basics of it. Heck, why don't you go into youtube and type "guild wars 2 world vs world" into the search engine and see what you find, because there's more than enough info & gameplay out already.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4654

4/15/12 7:46:04 PM#57

Well, isn't this thread just full of mislead & missinformed opinions.

While GW2 is, to a certain degree a melting pot of MMOS (they've looked at quite a broad range of games to brainstorm what systems actually work, and which are actually a detriment to the genre), however to say the game offers nothing new and is basically another WoW (taking the best of other successful games & merging them) is very much boiling the game down to it's lowest common denominator.

This game isn't like any other I've ever played. Is every feature it has new? Of course not. However, this MMO offers enough new things to feel absolutely unique. A lot of this might just be stemming from people not having played the game yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens once more people have actually played this game (and can talk about it openly).

I think that, similar to the first game, people who are more focused on nitpicking the game than going in w/ a more open mind are going to miss out on a lot of good things.

  albaficass

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 113

4/15/12 7:50:57 PM#58
Originally posted by Lucioon

 

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

and they should remove this...x100 better have text in this game cause the voices OVERS are just H.O.R.R.I.B.L.E

 

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/15/12 7:53:54 PM#59
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

So...would we say they are pulling a Blizzard 2004 WoW moment?  That's what WoW did but with games before 2004 and look how well that turned out for them.  Hence, why I can't wait to play GW2.  I wonder if it will cause a GW2 clone domino effect for the next 8 years.  Hmmm....

That's pretty much what WoW did at the time, which is how you could say innovation.

If a peanut butter jelly sandwhich is not an innovation then well I guess I'm wrong.

Now time will tell if ANET's peanut butter jelly sandwhich is a success.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

4/15/12 7:53:56 PM#60

"I think that, similar to the first game, people who are more focused on nitpicking the game than going in w/ a more open mind are going to miss out on a lot of good things."

how does that phrase go? pot calling the kettle black,maybe you shouldnt talk about focusing on nitpicking the game when you yourself are doing it in the same exact post.calling the game another wow

but hey,the same type of people that ruined sw tor are the ones that picked the game apart and called it another wow clone

 

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