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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 the melting pot of MMO

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99 posts found
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4936

4/15/12 12:45:30 PM#21
Originally posted by Kakkzooka
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by steeler989
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

 Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

I'm also interested in hearing how you think the grapes taste.

Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7755

Logic be damned!

4/15/12 12:47:34 PM#22
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

This is very true.

 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Fion

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2356

forums.3305local.com

We are recruiting.

4/15/12 12:51:14 PM#23
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

 

I'm afraid your rather wrong on that one. Some DE's are on a cycle certainly but a great many of them are sparked in other ways. Some DE's don't start until a player discovers them, others don't start until or unless a different DE reaches a specific point in the chain and still others, like Meta-Events, can require all of the above.

It's why some poeple (myself included) have played the game multiple times in the same areas and had different things happening in them. Not just simple 'DE failed so the town is taken over', but dramatic changes like weather differences, areas where different mobs populating them than before, etc. My experience comes from playing at last years PAX East and just playing the human starting zone (after the tutorial) there were a number of differences between each 40 minute slot. I spent a 'lot' of time at that booth lol.

Also do note that in the beta a number of DE's are on faster cycles, and still other large Meta Events kick off early and often, without the chain that would normally lead up to them. It's why the lower lvl dragons spawn repeatedly in the beta (and during demonstrations), so poeple can actually experience them.

 

  pacov

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 318

4/15/12 12:53:41 PM#24
Originally posted by Fion
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

 

I'm afraid your dead wrong on that one. Some DE's are on a cycle certainly but a great many of them are sparked in other ways. Some DE's don't start until a player discovers them, others don't start until or unless a different DE reaches a specific point in the chain and still others, like Meta-Events, can require all of the above.

It's why some poeple (myself included) have played the game multiple times in the same areas and had different things happening in them. Not just simple 'DE failed so the town is taken over', but dramatic changes like weather differences, areas where different mobs populating them than before, etc.

 

I also think many uninformed players confuse dynamic events with hearts which are sort of traditional quests and are not dynamic

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5950

4/15/12 12:57:06 PM#25
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Kakkzooka
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by steeler989
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

I'm also interested in hearing how you think the grapes taste.

Calm down there Sparky. I'm not knocking it, it's definately a step forward. But I don't think they are properly labeled. True dynamic content cannot be scripted. At least not with today's current technology. True Dynamic Content is generally player based content. 

This is well said, especially in light of the thread.  The last game I played that had true dynamic events was Lineage.

With that said I think it's good when an MMO takes previously released systems and makes them their own, polishing and improving on them.  We need less "innovation" and more polished well integrated systems in our new MMOs.  This is one thing I think RIFT did very well - improve on traditional systems from EQ2, WoW, and other themeparks and then polish and make them their own.

RIFT didn't invent dynamic events either.  They were around before that in older games, but were generally relegated to periodic event periods.  Trion just improved upon and iterated the idea of a dynamic event.  This is what ANet is doing with them.  Hopefully Trion and others will take the ideas of incorporating quest chains into their dynamic events and push the idea even further.

Curse you AquaScum!

  User Deleted
4/15/12 1:01:56 PM#26
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 Well that comparison has been the bread and butter of those looking to denigrate a game's originality since the beginning of modern ,online gaming. Try stating here that WoW stole everything it has from EQ1, and other earlier games, and old gamers will predate that comparison with even earlier games.It kind of gets like rolling up your sleeve to see who has the biggest muscles. It never ends and nobody agrees. There is no shame in making a better wheel.

 

 

 

 

  Cavod

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 299

4/15/12 1:02:52 PM#27
Originally posted by Fion
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

 

I'm afraid your rather wrong on that one. Some DE's are on a cycle certainly but a great many of them are sparked in other ways. Some DE's don't start until a player discovers them, others don't start until or unless a different DE reaches a specific point in the chain and still others, like Meta-Events, can require all of the above.

It's why some poeple (myself included) have played the game multiple times in the same areas and had different things happening in them. Not just simple 'DE failed so the town is taken over', but dramatic changes like weather differences, areas where different mobs populating them than before, etc. My experience comes from playing at last years PAX East and just playing the human starting zone (after the tutorial) there were a number of differences between each 40 minute slot. I spent a 'lot' of time at that booth lol.

Also do note that in the beta a number of DE's are on faster cycles, and still other large Meta Events kick off early and often, without the chain that would normally lead up to them. It's why the lower lvl dragons spawn repeatedly in the beta (and during demonstrations), so poeple can actually experience them.

 

How boring would the demo be if the occurrence of events and speed of leveling wasn't increase.

 

Can you imagine the poor level of testing and QA that would exists if the beta's values weren't changed to trigger more often so that they can actually be tested.

 

I, for one, don't want to start playing the game after it goes live and find out certain DEs are bugged because they never occured in beta to be thouroughly tested.

We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

4/15/12 1:07:49 PM#28
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

Melting Pot is not a bad description at all. At the themepark park level GW2 does great things:-

1. Progression/Levels: Level Curve = Flattened vs Exponential Grind

2. Progression World Structure: Personal Story Backbone branching persistence + Dynamic Events ribs to breathe living world into the game.

3. Main Content: Dynamic Events = evolved form of PQs and fully supplanting quests vs rift side content eg.

4. Personal Story for x5 races with x3 major arcs and various instancing and group content for this dungeon esque with speech competes competitively ie only SWTOR could be atm more story-intensive?

5. Combat - action, movement eg dodge roll, break with HT, weapon skill bar system etc

6. Lore is very highly developed eg Sylvari go the extra step to innovate elf archetype choice

7. structured pvp (ideas from TF2, LoL, GW) and world pvp (ideas from daoc) all in one game : )

8. B2P + 1. de-emphasis on grind + endgame raids and splitting of server populations and premier subs vs freemium subs eg. All population can interact/same side in PvE and PvP. Guilds extends this idea multiple guilds.

9. ArenaNet seem to date to have a good track-record with little dropping the batton - and their blogs and info on the game are exactly what mmorpg players anticipating 5yr dev for a game deserves. : )

10. Good conditions for player community & future of game and options for different players pve, lore, pvp - expansions/dlc,mt to keep updating the game ie B2P + more for players wanting more: they choose to pay for the next instalments. : )

etc...

If you take the above and compare to a lot of themepark mmorpgs, compare (at least on paper) favorably. Even the assets such as graphics (art) and music (J Soule) are great also.

A lot hinges on the combat quality and I hope this area proves really well designed. My biggest concern is how successful the DE content is for players. But expectations should be better met with price point. : )

....etc...

  Pigozz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 853

Nihil gratis

4/15/12 1:09:35 PM#29

GW2 have 8ft tall shapeshifting northernes wielding flamethrowers

And Charr shooting bazzokas

And Shatterer

 

other games don't

 

that's what really matters

MMOs played chronologically:
Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
Most fun: Tabula Rasa

  User Deleted
4/15/12 1:17:15 PM#30
Originally posted by Pigozz

GW2 have 8ft tall shapeshifting northernes wielding flamethrowers

And Charr shooting bazzokas

And Shatterer

 

other games don't

 

that's what really matters

And Cowtapult http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=opVi5m1Vuy4#t=290s

  User Deleted
4/15/12 1:33:25 PM#31

I read, or watched an interview with an Anet dev, who talked about how they took what they thought were good/fun ideas from other mmo's, RPG's, first person shooters, and other genres and incorporated those with there own ideas.  What's wrong with that?  Sounds like a damn good idea to me.  I don't know how many times I've been in a game where I thought, "this game would be even better if it had concepts from any number of other games."  We all have I'm sure.  But of course there's no pleasing the detractors.  "they just stole this from _________, nothing innovative about that."  What's that old saying?  "You can lead a troll to logic, but, you can't boost his IQ."

  Cavod

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 299

4/15/12 1:37:14 PM#32

For those sharing the OP's opinion, I have a question.


If you go to buy new tires and they try to sell you their 'new innovating tire' that has a tread design which excels under water conditions without losing performance else where... do you criticize and argue that it's not innovative because the tire is circular and 'tread patterns' have been done to death and existed for ages?

 

I suppose they should be reinventing the wheel, right?

We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/15/12 1:39:39 PM#33
Originally posted by GWFandaddy

I read, or watched an interview with an Anet dev, who talked about how they took what they thought were good/fun ideas from other mmo's, RPG's, first person shooters, and other genres and incorporated those with there own ideas.  What's wrong with that?  Sounds like a damn good idea to me.  I don't know how many times I've been in a game where I thought, "this game would be even better if it had concepts from any number of other games."  We all have I'm sure.  But of course there's no pleasing the detractors.  "they just stole this from _________, nothing innovative about that."  What's that old saying?  "You can lead a troll to logic, but, you can't boost his IQ."

 

Bada bing Bada boom check mate.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

4/15/12 1:42:37 PM#34

Guild Wars 2 has been in developement for 7 years.It's not like they started to work on Dynamic Events after Rift released, same with the other games.  

 

Sorry but nothing of what you state is true.

  Fion

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2356

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4/15/12 1:54:14 PM#35
Originally posted by Mavacar

And Cowtapult http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=opVi5m1Vuy4#t=290s

 

Thats 'Cattlepult' ;)

  grimm6th

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/10
Posts: 978

4/15/12 1:58:53 PM#36
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

Melting pot, by defiinition, means the merging of many things to make something that is more than just the sum of its parts.  I think GW2 does that.  I agree with you for the most part here.

 

However, I think the reason GW2 will be popular isn't because it uses the best features of other games, but because the game designers had a strong sense of what they wanted their game to do, which is allow players to play in a cooperative manner like never before.  This is definitely the most innovating thing GW2 does, and it is the driving logic behind just about everything else in the game.  The game is also pretty fun to play, which helps.

I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.

  User Deleted
4/15/12 2:02:05 PM#37
Originally posted by Fion
Originally posted by Mavacar

And Cowtapult http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=opVi5m1Vuy4#t=290s

Thats 'Cattlepult' ;)

Just trying to stur a little ;)

  Arcona

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/04
Posts: 1192

4/15/12 4:22:36 PM#38

the dynamic event are unlike dynamic events in other games, they got layers

the auction house is unlike other auction houses, you can sell from anywhere

the RvRvR is unlike other RvR, its 3 servers on open world maps

the personal story you go to your personal city within the capital, that changes according to your choices 

you forgot the quest grind from other games, where quest NPCs guide you to next area, and next area, and next area.  In GW2 you quest in a much different way, like never before.

 

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3755

RIP City of Heroes!

4/15/12 5:25:57 PM#39
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by steeler989
Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

 Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

People are going to give GW2 original credit for something DEs are not from now until the end of mmorpgs.  You can't change their minds.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2401

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

4/15/12 5:30:03 PM#40
Originally posted by Cavod

I really hate this "if a game has a minor pale resemblance of it, it's not innovating".


Calling Rift's system 'dynamic events' feels inaccurate after seeing what a GW2's dynamic events look like.  With the leeway we're giving Rift we may as well credit WAR for dynamic events... and we all know how much of a stretch and silly it'd be to say PQs were dynamic events.


MMOs aren't created overnight, they take years to build.   We don't know who truly originated the idea of dynamic events and I take protest to crediting the 'first joker who puts out something along the bare minimum lines' as the 'innovator'.


Disclaimer: I'm not calling Trion a 'joker'(that was generalized) nor am I knocking Rift.  I'm not a currently subscriber but it's definitely a decent game worth it's sub price.

 

You are basically saying Arena Net came up with dynamic events...

 

And you totally just did...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

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