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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Would you support Raids with just cosmetic rewards

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266 posts found
  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4757

4/11/12 9:05:30 PM#141
Originally posted by Asuran24

About as hard as it is for thick-headed players to understand that some players do not want to have a gear grind, or deticated roles, but do want to have content that is for a larger scale of players playing the content at the same time. Raid does not need to be about grinding gear, or about having deticated role, but having more complex, and as such more enjoyable playing for players that like that kind of game style. Is it hard to understand that players that might want to play such a game in a design that is differnet might want to play it with larger groups of players, in content that are built for such groups, as well as giving you info. Many raiders i know love the lore, item looks, and merely the fun times of playing with such large groups of players that the gear you gain to upgrade your character are very much secondary to the enjoyment.

Except, the game does have larger scale content. Just not the same old traditional raids.

So yes, there is content for 40 + people to band together to defeat. It just won't be in an instance.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/11/12 9:05:36 PM#142
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Zzad
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Rhonen

I am so tired of "Raids", GW2 is like a breath of fresh air in a very stuffy old room.  Let's not try to bring in features into a new Game when we have not even had the opportunity of playing the Game as intended.  If "Raids" are introduced into GW2 then what they promised from the beginning will fall flat on it's face.

I say NO To Raids!

Ratero.

That is fine for you to be tired of raid, yet you do not need to raid in any game, most of all if the other parts of the game enjoyable. Not having a form of raiding (as with raiding becoming less of being about the gear, and more about other factors of play would not be traditional raiding.) to me might mean that the rest of the game is not as appealing to play versus the raiding, and that would be why i would like to have raiding in the game is to show that the devs can make equally fun methods of play for both pve as well a pvp based players that appeal to them without using gear as a incentive. Also if they introduce raids that are not about gearing up or just gear itself, and that it is more about explaning or delveing into the world that gw is apart of then i would never see that as raiding in the sense of how raiding is in other games at all.

This game will not be for everyone...that is for sure.

It doesn´t have gear grind...it doesn´t have the holy trinity fixed...it doesn´t even have dedicated healer clasess...

and not It doesn´t have Raid Instanced for 25 ppl groups...

is it that hard to understand & enjoy another kind of game design?

FFS

About as hard as it is for thick-headed players to understand that some players do not want to have a gear grind, or deticated roles, but do want to have content that is for a larger scale of players playing the content at the same time. Raid does not need to be about grinding gear, or about having deticated role, but having more complex, and as such more enjoyable playing for players that like that kind of game style. Is it hard to understand that players that might want to play such a game in a design that is differnet might want to play it with larger groups of players, in content that are built for such groups, as well as giving you info. Many raiders i know love the lore, item looks, and merely the fun times of playing with such large groups of players that the gear you gain to upgrade your character are very much secondary to the enjoyment.

You have that content. There are zone bosses and defeating the requires a large amount of players.

  Zzad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1294

4/11/12 9:07:05 PM#143
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

is not about beeing fine or not...you are just asking a game with a different design to change to your beloved "traditional Raids design" because you like it.

There are plenty of games designed that way...pick one.

  User Deleted
4/11/12 9:09:42 PM#144
Originally posted by Kalfer
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Zzad
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Rhonen

I am so tired of "Raids", GW2 is like a breath of fresh air in a very stuffy old room.  Let's not try to bring in features into a new Game when we have not even had the opportunity of playing the Game as intended.  If "Raids" are introduced into GW2 then what they promised from the beginning will fall flat on it's face.

I say NO To Raids!

Ratero.

That is fine for you to be tired of raid, yet you do not need to raid in any game, most of all if the other parts of the game enjoyable. Not having a form of raiding (as with raiding becoming less of being about the gear, and more about other factors of play would not be traditional raiding.) to me might mean that the rest of the game is not as appealing to play versus the raiding, and that would be why i would like to have raiding in the game is to show that the devs can make equally fun methods of play for both pve as well a pvp based players that appeal to them without using gear as a incentive. Also if they introduce raids that are not about gearing up or just gear itself, and that it is more about explaning or delveing into the world that gw is apart of then i would never see that as raiding in the sense of how raiding is in other games at all.

This game will not be for everyone...that is for sure.

It doesn´t have gear grind...it doesn´t have the holy trinity fixed...it doesn´t even have dedicated healer clasess...

and not It doesn´t have Raid Instanced for 25 ppl groups...

is it that hard to understand & enjoy another kind of game design?

FFS

About as hard as it is for thick-headed players to understand that some players do not want to have a gear grind, or deticated roles, but do want to have content that is for a larger scale of players playing the content at the same time. Raid does not need to be about grinding gear, or about having deticated role, but having more complex, and as such more enjoyable playing for players that like that kind of game style. Is it hard to understand that players that might want to play such a game in a design that is differnet might want to play it with larger groups of players, in content that are built for such groups, as well as giving you info. Many raiders i know love the lore, item looks, and merely the fun times of playing with such large groups of players that the gear you gain to upgrade your character are very much secondary to the enjoyment.

GW2 has open world raids in the form of dynamic events. they have said that some of them will require many players to do, and will be really challanging.

 

'we need to get away from instanced raids. they suck.

Matter of opinion that instanced raids, or open raids suck or not as it is a matter of what you perfer playing and how you play. It might true that DEs will be challenging, yet some players do not like open world content as much as others, and so with raiding or other content being stated as being in or out asking, or showing that there are players that seek it without the normal wow-like standards of a grind or such is not bad for anyone as those that seek to play in it will whiile other will avoid it.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/11/12 9:11:15 PM#145
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

You and me both know that the raid dungeons do not offer more complexity. They are basically small group content that was buffed for a large amount of players and they don't fit in with GW2 or GW1 philosophy. I can understand huge zone bosses requiring a lot of people to kill but most of these raids have trash mobs which require the same amout of players to kill, make no sense.

GW1 and 2 are always about small group PvE content. If you want to whack on big mobs with 25+ people, you have WoW and a whole bunch of other games that tried to copy it. Leave GW2 to those who do not want the extreme minority to dominate the whole game.

  User Deleted
4/11/12 9:16:29 PM#146
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

You and me both know that the raid dungeons do not offer more complexity. They are basically small group content that was buffed for a large amount of players and they don't fit in with GW2 or GW1 philosophy. I can understand huge zone bosses requiring a lot of people to kill but most of these raids have trash mobs which require the same amout of players to kill, make no sense.

GW1 and 2 are always about small group PvE content. If you want to whack on big mobs with 25+ people, you have WoW and a whole bunch of other games that tried to copy it. Leave GW2 to those who do not want the extreme minority to dominate the whole game.

 

  I agree with most of the above, except just looking at numbers - it's no extreme minority that likes to 'raid'.  There are plenty of 'raiding' games out there to satisfy that appetite - no need for exaggeration.

  User Deleted
4/11/12 9:17:33 PM#147
Originally posted by Zzad
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

is not about beeing fine or not...you are just asking a game with a different design to change to your beloved "traditional Raids design" because you like it.

There are plenty of games designed that way...pick one.

Actually no asking for the current fact that they have dungeons for smaller groups being brought up to a larger group scale without actually using the staples of how other raiding designs are is not asking for the game to change, but merely asking for it to evolve the standard dungeon instances to have some instances of them made for larger groups for those that seek such thigns in a game they are looking at. Good job of reading though since you missed that i even said building raids around the core of what gw2 is with merely bringing up the number of players to a higher number, and keeping the content equaly challenging to those seeking that. Just because some ask for raids thaat does not mean they seek raids like wow, but merely want to see raiding in the game using the same core aspects of the game to be able to enjoy it in their wn style, while playing other asects of the game as well.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/11/12 9:22:06 PM#148
Originally posted by Eliandal
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

You and me both know that the raid dungeons do not offer more complexity. They are basically small group content that was buffed for a large amount of players and they don't fit in with GW2 or GW1 philosophy. I can understand huge zone bosses requiring a lot of people to kill but most of these raids have trash mobs which require the same amout of players to kill, make no sense.

GW1 and 2 are always about small group PvE content. If you want to whack on big mobs with 25+ people, you have WoW and a whole bunch of other games that tried to copy it. Leave GW2 to those who do not want the extreme minority to dominate the whole game.

 

  I agree with most of the above, except just looking at numbers - it's no extreme minority that likes to 'raid'.  There are plenty of 'raiding' games out there to satisfy that appetite - no need for exaggeration.

There was a study of sorts done on how many WoW players actually experience raid content. It turned out to be less than 10%. As far as I'm concerned, that's an extreme minority.

It's irrelevent either way. People who prefer the raid playstyle have a selection of games to choose from. Even GW2 offers a bit of "raiding" in the form of zone bosses. However, if people crave actual dedicated raid instances/dungeons, they won't find them in GW2. Raiding is more about alienating, rather than playing with others and ArenaNet wants to avoid that.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

4/11/12 9:22:57 PM#149


Originally posted by Icewhite


Originally posted by azmundai

one of the biggest mistakes I think the genre has made is perpetuating the expertise bandaid instead of fixing the core imbalance between attainment of gear across the two playstyles.



Don't personally consider that Blizzard's biggest mistake.  Balancing PVE and PVP in the same environment has always been a fingernail-pulling level of challenge for developers.  Nobody's got it right yet, not even the most popular game on Earth.
I'd look at it from the other side; how many times does it have to fail before devs stop trying to beat the square peg into a round hole?

I guess I dont see the problem as clearly as the devs.

Do I raid for gear? I'd be lying if I said gear wasn't a factor .. but the gear isn't what got me into raiding, it was the challenge. I know that cliche or w/e .. but what can I tell you.

I played EQ and UO, but not obsessively. Didn't do much raiding in either. When I came to wow, the raiding hooked me. It was about beating the dungeon. MC took us months to finish. Finishing it was the reward. If I had never entered another raid instance I would have been happy. Of course BWL was awesome as well, imo and for us was again never about the gear. Did we farm MC for specific loot while working on BWL? Sure .. that is why we ran MC 4 months after finishing it, but it's not why we were in BWL.

That kind of thing just doesn't exist these days.

-----

Back then I never saw a problem with pve gear in pvp. I guess that's easy for me to say as I had pve gear ... but I was never the best geared or in the best guild. We were on Sartura when TBC hit. Not progressed by most people's standards. But we were having the time of our lives. TBC was good too .. then everything really became free. I've been between games ever since.

Not sure what my point is anymore. lol ..

What if servers were split? Pve servers assumed pve players so pve gear was allowed in pvp .. but on pvp servers, pve gear had a negative bolster effect?

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  User Deleted
4/11/12 9:24:31 PM#150
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

You and me both know that the raid dungeons do not offer more complexity. They are basically small group content that was buffed for a large amount of players and they don't fit in with GW2 or GW1 philosophy. I can understand huge zone bosses requiring a lot of people to kill but most of these raids have trash mobs which require the same amout of players to kill, make no sense.

GW1 and 2 are always about small group PvE content. If you want to whack on big mobs with 25+ people, you have WoW and a whole bunch of other games that tried to copy it. Leave GW2 to those who do not want the extreme minority to dominate the whole game.

It depends on what era of raiding you are talking about really for how complex the content was, if you take raiding back in standard wow then yes it was more complex then most other conent in that everyone had to do their jobs nearly perfect, but complared to what raiding has become no the complexity s not the same but that is more of a change in how many of the raiding base play then the idea of what raiding should be. I prefered when roles had specific jobs to do other then merely being tanking, healing, and dpsing. Now withoout needing to have certain roles in a raid you could have trully complex encounters in the raids that would be more like how raiding was made prior to modern raiding.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/11/12 9:35:30 PM#151
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

You and me both know that the raid dungeons do not offer more complexity. They are basically small group content that was buffed for a large amount of players and they don't fit in with GW2 or GW1 philosophy. I can understand huge zone bosses requiring a lot of people to kill but most of these raids have trash mobs which require the same amout of players to kill, make no sense.

GW1 and 2 are always about small group PvE content. If you want to whack on big mobs with 25+ people, you have WoW and a whole bunch of other games that tried to copy it. Leave GW2 to those who do not want the extreme minority to dominate the whole game.

It depends on what era of raiding you are talking about really for how complex the content was, if you take raiding back in standard wow then yes it was more complex then most other conent in that everyone had to do their jobs nearly perfect, but complared to what raiding has become no the complexity s not the same but that is more of a change in how many of the raiding base play then the idea of what raiding should be. I prefered when roles had specific jobs to do other then merely being tanking, healing, and dpsing. Now withoout needing to have certain roles in a raid you could have trully complex encounters in the raids that would be more like how raiding was made prior to modern raiding.

The fact is that ArenaNet does not really cater to that playstyle. If it's that important for you, there are plenty of games that still accomodate raiders. This game does not have it. Either accept it for what it is or move on.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4763

4/11/12 9:41:49 PM#152

This whole thread misses the point of progression raiding. Better gear is only one part of the system. You clear one raid and get everyone in the group better gear so you can become good enough to face the next raid.

Raiding just for the sake of getting gear is pointless. Yes we all like having better stats, but by the time you are in full raid gear, solo content is so easy getting even stronger doesn't even show. Even doing 5 man content is easy and better gear is just considered over kill. Meaning there is no other point to it other than the next raid. Well, that and bragging rights, but in this regard, GW2 has it also.

It's clear that some people looking forward to GW2 are not and most likely never were serious raiders. You've dismissed it off like it's some kind of advanced group gear vending machine.

By all accounts, Once you hit cap,  You really have no way to progress. And I am not talking about player skills, I am assuming we have mastered our class by this point.

Raid progression isn't only about getting gear drops, it's about leveraging your prior success against future challenges. I just don't see how GW2 can support this.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  silvermember

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 502

4/11/12 9:48:34 PM#153
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This whole thread misses the point of progression raiding. Better gear is only one part of the system. You clear one raid and get everyone in the group better gear so you can become good enough to face the next raid.

Raiding just for the sake of getting gear is pointless. Yes we all like having better stats, but by the time you are in full raid gear, solo content is so easy getting even stronger doesn't even show. Even doing 5 man content is easy and better gear is just considered over kill. Meaning there is no other point to it other than the next raid. Well, that and bragging rights, but in this regard, GW2 has it also.

It's clear that some people looking forward to GW2 are not and most likely never were serious raiders. You've dismissed it off like it's some kind of advanced group gear vending machine.

raid progression is about leveraging your prior success against future challenges. I just don't see how GW2 can support this.

By all accounts, Once you hit cap,  You really have no way to progress. And I am not talking about player skills, I am assuming we have mastered our class by this point.

raiding is purely about getting better gear so they can lord over those that don't have the time to keep doing repetitive task. As for skill, I guess you can argue that being able to read guides, follow basic direction and adding mods that play the game for you, can be considered in some lesser gaming circles to equate to "skill".

  Blacknoob6

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/12
Posts: 8

4/11/12 9:49:23 PM#154

Since when does a better gear means that your a better player? 

  User Deleted
4/11/12 9:49:57 PM#155
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by heartless

GW2 already has raids of sorts--the zone bosses. And that's just how I like it. Big bad boss appears and everyone in the zone bands together to defeat him. What I don't support are WoW-like raids with 10, 25 or 40 people basically running a dungeon together.

It cheapens the experience, when you farm the same raid over and over and over again until you finally execute the strategy you read on wowhead.com to the tee.

So a zone grouping up to kill a boss in a zone when it pops up is fine, but having something that would be more like the dungeons in gw now, except larger  giving the players more complexty to the dungeons comparitively. Now if it were somethign like how wow does the fights with them being made for a trinity that would be an issue, but if they built the raids around the ideas of their own systems they have now it would not be raiding in wow or other games at all. In this fashion only the fact that the content is built with the idea of having much larger numbers of players in the content, but the machanics or the styles of the encounters in the content woould be different from wow raids merely by the fact you do not have deticated roles in the game.

You and me both know that the raid dungeons do not offer more complexity. They are basically small group content that was buffed for a large amount of players and they don't fit in with GW2 or GW1 philosophy. I can understand huge zone bosses requiring a lot of people to kill but most of these raids have trash mobs which require the same amout of players to kill, make no sense.

GW1 and 2 are always about small group PvE content. If you want to whack on big mobs with 25+ people, you have WoW and a whole bunch of other games that tried to copy it. Leave GW2 to those who do not want the extreme minority to dominate the whole game.

It depends on what era of raiding you are talking about really for how complex the content was, if you take raiding back in standard wow then yes it was more complex then most other conent in that everyone had to do their jobs nearly perfect, but complared to what raiding has become no the complexity s not the same but that is more of a change in how many of the raiding base play then the idea of what raiding should be. I prefered when roles had specific jobs to do other then merely being tanking, healing, and dpsing. Now withoout needing to have certain roles in a raid you could have trully complex encounters in the raids that would be more like how raiding was made prior to modern raiding.

The fact is that ArenaNet does not really cater to that playstyle. If it's that important for you, there are plenty of games that still accomodate raiders. This game does not have it. Either accept it for what it is or move on.

r show support for styles, and ways of showing that the playstyle can be used in the game, and leave it up  to the devs to actually see if they want to add a smaller population of the raider base to thier game via giving them content that actually appeal to them without making it the best way of progressing or putting it against the other styles in the game already. If people jut put up with thigns nothing changes, and also things do not change for the better or worse, those raiders that want raid content that is more about challeging or cmplex play need to show support for such system in games that can support them. Also zone boss are not the same as raid content in that yes you need  to people to do it, but what raiding is about is playing thru encounters in a raid using stratagy in areas to complete it, also very few raids werre one boss encounters so sayihng that having zone bosses in game as being anythign like having raiding content is faulty.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4763

4/11/12 9:58:20 PM#156
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This whole thread misses the point of progression raiding. Better gear is only one part of the system. You clear one raid and get everyone in the group better gear so you can become good enough to face the next raid.

Raiding just for the sake of getting gear is pointless. Yes we all like having better stats, but by the time you are in full raid gear, solo content is so easy getting even stronger doesn't even show. Even doing 5 man content is easy and better gear is just considered over kill. Meaning there is no other point to it other than the next raid. Well, that and bragging rights, but in this regard, GW2 has it also.

It's clear that some people looking forward to GW2 are not and most likely never were serious raiders. You've dismissed it off like it's some kind of advanced group gear vending machine.

raid progression is about leveraging your prior success against future challenges. I just don't see how GW2 can support this.

By all accounts, Once you hit cap,  You really have no way to progress. And I am not talking about player skills, I am assuming we have mastered our class by this point.

raiding is purely about getting better gear so they can lord over those that don't have the time to keep doing repetitive task. As for skill, I guess you can argue that being able to read guides, follow basic direction and adding mods that play the game for you, can be considered in some lesser gaming circles to equate to "skill".

Hey, it's cool now everyone will have an MMO.

Those who can, raid, those who can't, play GW2.

 

I don't know who you played with but I never wasted my time "lording" over anyone. Seriosuly, how presumptious.

And yeah, some raids are tough, you have to do them a few times. Oh yeah. I suppose the comment about "skill" won't apply to the 5 man GW2 dungeons that will look more like a Benny Hill re run than a concerted effort from 5 people?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  User Deleted
4/11/12 9:58:39 PM#157
Originally posted by Blacknoob6

Since when does a better gear means that your a better player? 

Depends on what you did to get the gear really, if you did actually challenging encounters or content, than you are a better player than another player that has not done so (in regards to a game that has gear as a fact of only being vanity.). Yet also even in traditional raiding raids are harder in the fact of what you need to do compared to small group content in the game, but how much better are you is the better question. THe difference in raid to small group content is not the big, asmost contne tin pve is rather easy, but there is a diffference in difficulty. I have seen groups of players in raiding that even fully geared could not finsh content, while undergeared players finsihed it without much issue, and so the gear shows that you were better at doing the stratagies of the encounters. Also epic gear used to be much harder to come by in wow for example, and so it held a form of presetige in that you had be a rather good players to gain it, but then epic gear has become rather common which has deflated the meaning of the gear into being just a tier higher in stats instead of being also a symbol of completing content that others could not. It is more of a fact of showing what you have done in the game, and then letting the layers determine how much better the layer needs to be to have gained it.

  User Deleted
4/11/12 10:07:40 PM#158
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This whole thread misses the point of progression raiding. Better gear is only one part of the system. You clear one raid and get everyone in the group better gear so you can become good enough to face the next raid.

Raiding just for the sake of getting gear is pointless. Yes we all like having better stats, but by the time you are in full raid gear, solo content is so easy getting even stronger doesn't even show. Even doing 5 man content is easy and better gear is just considered over kill. Meaning there is no other point to it other than the next raid. Well, that and bragging rights, but in this regard, GW2 has it also.

It's clear that some people looking forward to GW2 are not and most likely never were serious raiders. You've dismissed it off like it's some kind of advanced group gear vending machine.

raid progression is about leveraging your prior success against future challenges. I just don't see how GW2 can support this.

By all accounts, Once you hit cap,  You really have no way to progress. And I am not talking about player skills, I am assuming we have mastered our class by this point.

raiding is purely about getting better gear so they can lord over those that don't have the time to keep doing repetitive task. As for skill, I guess you can argue that being able to read guides, follow basic direction and adding mods that play the game for you, can be considered in some lesser gaming circles to equate to "skill".

This is only true of the new raiding scene not of raiding at large thru out mmo history. Many of the guilds that get first kills do not have guides to fallow, also may players refuse to use thigns like raid mods as it to them cheapens the experince for them, but nice try in trying to take everyone that enjoys raiding as being the same. I mean i could say that since someone like pvp ganking lowbies, that all pvpers are gankers meaning that all pvpers must have very little skill since really what kind of skill does it take to kill such a target. Also just since some raiders lord over what they do in game to other people, does not mean that ever raider does, as most raiders could careless (those that lord over are normally elitist that dictate what builds, and styles of play are acceptable.). Generalization of any group is bad both for those in the group as well as for those that are making that generalization.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

4/11/12 10:07:59 PM#159
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

By all accounts, Once you hit cap,  You really have no way to progress. And I am not talking about player skills, I am assuming we have mastered our class by this point.

i'm not sure what GW2 will have for nonleveling progression but this has been stated

http://www.arena.net/blog/progression-and-leveling-in-guild-wars-2:

progression in Guild Wars 2 is way more than just leveling. We have achievements, trait collection, crafting, dungeons, skill collection, items, and much more.

  silvermember

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 502

4/11/12 10:08:26 PM#160
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This whole thread misses the point of progression raiding. Better gear is only one part of the system. You clear one raid and get everyone in the group better gear so you can become good enough to face the next raid.

Raiding just for the sake of getting gear is pointless. Yes we all like having better stats, but by the time you are in full raid gear, solo content is so easy getting even stronger doesn't even show. Even doing 5 man content is easy and better gear is just considered over kill. Meaning there is no other point to it other than the next raid. Well, that and bragging rights, but in this regard, GW2 has it also.

It's clear that some people looking forward to GW2 are not and most likely never were serious raiders. You've dismissed it off like it's some kind of advanced group gear vending machine.

raid progression is about leveraging your prior success against future challenges. I just don't see how GW2 can support this.

By all accounts, Once you hit cap,  You really have no way to progress. And I am not talking about player skills, I am assuming we have mastered our class by this point.

raiding is purely about getting better gear so they can lord over those that don't have the time to keep doing repetitive task. As for skill, I guess you can argue that being able to read guides, follow basic direction and adding mods that play the game for you, can be considered in some lesser gaming circles to equate to "skill".

Hey, it's cool now everyone will have an MMO.

Those who can, raid, those who can't, play GW2.

 

I don't know who you played with but I never wasted my time "lording" over anyone. Seriosuly, how presumptious.

And yeah, some raids are tough, you have to do them a few times. Oh yeah. I suppose the comment about "skill" won't apply to the 5 man GW2 dungeons that will look more like a Benny Hill re run than a concerted effort from 5 people?

isn't that great everyone can have their own MMO which makes this thread moot, since arenanet intentionally designed gw2 to not have raids.

 

as to your other question a lot  raiders do in like to lord their gear over others. Sometimes they do it by stupidly call themselves leet and when I say stupidly is because w/o their gear they couldn't even play their way out of an open bag.

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