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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I purchased an unfinished game

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288 posts found
  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2540

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

4/11/12 11:28:44 AM#61
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products.

 

Actually, people pay money for all these things before seeing them in their finished state, especially when whatever it is is especially desirable. A lot of products (and services) are paid for on faith and reputation alone.

I don't usually pre purchase, but to me, and others, GW2 is particulalry desireable.

And it's less expensive then buying a new build house.

People don't pay for those things knowing they're going to be incomplete and missing items. That's the point you and others are failing to grasp here.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7475

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

4/11/12 11:31:55 AM#62
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products.

 

Actually, people pay money for all these things before seeing them in their finished state, especially when whatever it is is especially desirable. A lot of products (and services) are paid for on faith and reputation alone.

I don't usually pre purchase, but to me, and others, GW2 is particulalry desireable.

And it's less expensive then buying a new build house.

People don't pay for those things knowing they're going to be incomplete and missing items. That's the point you and others are failing to grasp here.

 

No, that actually wasn't the point you made. You are attempting to now shift to it though because your original point was answered.

I don't ever pre purchase a game knowing it will be incomplete and missing items either. I fully expect it to be a functional and fun product.

 

  Abdar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 400

4/11/12 11:33:21 AM#63
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by Abdar

Asking people to pre order a game still under a heavy NDA is wrong. I mean ultimiately people will make their own call, but this has SWToR written all over it. 

Wish I could say more..

Nobody really cares what you have to say.

The people that pre purchase did so knowing full well what they were getting themselves into. Nobody that pre purchase is a child most of htem are adults and they do so knowing full well what they are risking.

Also, a better analogy would be putting a down payment on a car(used) or house(not new). You might have a basic idea of how the house or car is, but you wont until a few weeks later. 

I said people will make their own call and that's fine. Their money. 

To further your analogy, do you buy a car before test driving it? Do you buy one based on select information when you know there's a lot that's still hidden from you? I sure wouldn't. Now we are only talking about a game here so less money of course, but the point is the same.

Either way, I'm still sticking to my guns and think it's wrong to ask people to buy your product when you are deliberately holding information back on it as well as not letting others share their thoughts on it.

 

 

  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3754

4/11/12 11:36:27 AM#64
Originally posted by BadSpock
I've never tried to argue that point Zek - all MMOs are unfinished when you buy them. Kind of been true for over a decade. Once again, GW2 pre-order is "business as usual" in the MMO genre.

 

Hasn't that "business as usual", all MMOs are "unfinished", rationale been identified as the bane of the MMO world for the last ten years?  Entire crusades against games have been led as a result.  Supposedly, it's what's been wrong with the industry, along with several other evils.

Allowing pre-orders before giving a release date has also been widely damned by the MMO community.  Prospective players are now funding the continued development of the game, as the saying goes, without ANet having the courage to determine an actual date of release.

So, it's business as usualy in the MMO industry with ANet as well.  Nothing new here.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  slicknslim88

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 400

4/11/12 11:37:40 AM#65

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

  Exilor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/10
Posts: 394

Turn it up, turn it up, turn it up, up, adieu...

4/11/12 11:41:25 AM#66
I wonder if NCsoft wanted the game to be released in april already, but ArenaNet was able to barter this prepurchase thing to avoid releasing an unfinished game. I think that would be the best case scenario.
  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3754

4/11/12 11:41:43 AM#67
Originally posted by slicknslim88

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

 

So, the question is: Why is it evil when other game companies do it, but awesome when ANet does it?

I've been asking myself that a lot recently, over a range of things (i.e. "P2W" cash shop, instanced e-sport PvP, EZ mode instant gratification 80s for PvP, easy fast travel, extremely fast leveling, meaningless game world, etc).

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2540

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

4/11/12 11:41:45 AM#68
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products.

 

Actually, people pay money for all these things before seeing them in their finished state, especially when whatever it is is especially desirable. A lot of products (and services) are paid for on faith and reputation alone.

I don't usually pre purchase, but to me, and others, GW2 is particulalry desireable.

And it's less expensive then buying a new build house.

People don't pay for those things knowing they're going to be incomplete and missing items. That's the point you and others are failing to grasp here.

 

No, that actually wasn't the point you made. You are attempting to now shift to it though because your original point was answered.

I don't ever pre purchase a game knowing it will be incomplete and missing items either. I fully expect it to be a functional and fun product.

 

Perhaps my point wasn't clear enough, I apologize. The point is, people are willing to pay for unfinished and incomplete games while this is not true in other industries. You dont' see people buying a house with a promise of windows being delivered a month later. You don't see people buying cars on a promise that the seats will be delivered later. You don't see people buying a meal at a restaurant on a promise of the salad coming next week.

Would you agree with that or not?

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Kwintpod

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/19/09
Posts: 269

4/11/12 11:42:17 AM#69

As long as buying it early doesn't give you any lasting perks I really fail to see any problem with this practice.

 

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2540

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

4/11/12 11:43:16 AM#70
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by slicknslim88

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

 

So, the question is: Why is it evil when other game companies do it, but awesome when ANet does it?

I've been asking myself that a lot recently, over a range of things (i.e. "P2W" cash shop, instanced PvP, EZ mode instant gratification 80s for PvP, easy fast travel, meaningless game world, etc).

Exactly, why? The answer is simple, fans of games tend to ignore quite a bit of truth and reality in order to justify their purchase.

We've all done it, just most refuse to admit it.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  F0rumLurker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/14/12
Posts: 58

4/11/12 11:47:00 AM#71
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by BadSpock
Unless there is a free trial the only difference between purchasing at launch versus pre-order/purchase is the date. You are still going off of available information to make your decision. Pre-order just gets a few bonus perks for the risk you take. It's just like making a deposit or a down payment. Also, when you go to a new restaurant you have never been to do you know you will like the food? No, you have to go off of available information - reviews, word of mouth, etc.

But they bring you the entire meal!

C'mon Spock, you know game developers are half-a$$ing release so stop the pretend. I know you like GW2 and all but lets be honest about it, pretty much ALL developers are half-a$$ing these days.

Look at Blizzard for crying out loud, releasing without PvP? This has now become acceptable? Pathetic I say.

 

Sometimes they don't bring out the entire meal. Sometimes the food is burnt. Sometimes they added extra onion instead of making it with no onion. These things can be fixed and you can still enjoy your meal. If the same restaurant keeps making mistakes like this, you probably won't go and eat there anymore. It's in their best interest to not keep making mistakes. And just like in gaming, if you really, really don't like it you can get a refund - but of course you can't finish the meal and then ask for a refund!

Um, if they don't bring out the entire meal they better go get it or I ain't payin'. And if it's crappy, I ain't payin'.

I never thought I'd say this but, you're starting sound a lot like a fanboi. Where is your common sense on this issue? How can you defend half-a$$ game releases, regardless of who's game it is and what title?

How about a little honesty Spock? Wouldn't that be logical?

 

You said it exactly. If it is THAT bad you ask for a refund - but not after you've already eaten the entire meal. Why are we disagreeing we are saying the same thing!

Because we're not saying the same thing Spock. You don't buy a Happy Meal from McDonald's knowing that they're going to get you your fries next week.

Geez...

 

Here's a more accurate analogy: You walk into Pizza Hut and purchase a pizza by paying the cashier. He gives you a reciept of your purchase. Of course, the pizza needs time to cook before you get to eat it since it's not ready yet, so the only thing to do is wait for it to finish cooking. The manager notices you waiting impatiently for your pizza to arrive, so being the awesome manager that he is, he gives you a free slice of pizza to beta test... i mean sample on. Now this slice of pizza has slightly different toppings from the pizza you ordered, so it might not be the taste you prefer, but you can definitely get an idea of the quality of pizza you are going to get. After a short wait, the cooking is done and you get the pizza when it's ready. You now have a fully complete pizza plus you got some free samples while waiting!

Now technically, when you handed over your money to the cashier, they could literally hand you a pizza box full of crusts and pretend they actually gave you a pizza and you ate it. Chances are there weren't witnesses to say otherwise. But obviously, that doesn't happen often because that would be bad for business in the long term.

  User Deleted
4/11/12 11:47:57 AM#72

I have to admit that the entire discussion of buying games without all the details out... gets lost on me.

 

Being forced to pre-purchase if you don't want to pay now for something, you get later is one thing...  (which I see with some direct orders)

 

Yet I keep seeing the option to not pay in advanced offered by 3rd parties... (gamestop, amazon etc)

 

What exactly is the problem supposed to be?   If you don't want to order at all... then wait.   If you really have a bad feeling about the game, waiting is the best thing to do no matter what.  

 

There is no real incentive to order now unless you want a guaranteed spot in a weekend test.   If you wait and buy the game after its out.. since there is a built in system to let you compete (pvp) then its not like you lose much by waiting... if you decide you want to buy it after launch.

 

I decided to pre-purchase the game because I know I am going to buy it.   I just want to pay for it and forget about it until its time to download a client etc..   I wish that all games up for Pre-order had a Pre-Purchase option as well.

 

Even if the NDA was not in effect... I would never base my purchase or non-purchase off another persons opinion.   Which is the only way NDA can come into the arguement... becuase as far as I know... no NDA in the world says when you test a game you cannot tell yourself about it and decide not to buy it.   Perhaps NDA would apply to people with MPD but I can't honestly say...

  Asheram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1898

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

4/11/12 11:49:21 AM#73
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by slicknslim88

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

 

So, the question is: Why is it evil when other game companies do it, but awesome when ANet does it?

I've been asking myself that a lot recently, over a range of things (i.e. "P2W" cash shop, instanced PvP, EZ mode instant gratification 80s for PvP, easy fast travel, meaningless game world, etc).

Exactly, why? The answer is simple, fans of games tend to ignore quite a bit of truth and reality in order to justify their purchase.

We've all done it, just most refuse to admit it.

Do you lose alot of sleep over what other people do with their money?

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

4/11/12 11:50:37 AM#74
I dont think I would pay the full price, $30K, in advance for a car that I maybe would get 6 months later. Without even knowing what features it would have or its exact performance.
Maybe,if I really wanted the car, I would be prepared to pay $5K in advance.

That are a lot of people that gets very suspicious as soon as someone wants them to give them money. Typically they would never buy anything from anyone based on faith and reputation if they had to pay in advance. As soon as paying in advance was mentioned they would scream and run.

  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3754

4/11/12 11:52:25 AM#75
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by slicknslim88

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

 

So, the question is: Why is it evil when other game companies do it, but awesome when ANet does it?

I've been asking myself that a lot recently, over a range of things (i.e. "P2W" cash shop, instanced PvP, EZ mode instant gratification 80s for PvP, easy fast travel, meaningless game world, etc).

Exactly, why? The answer is simple, fans of games tend to ignore quite a bit of truth and reality in order to justify their purchase.

We've all done it, just most refuse to admit it.

 

You've hit the nail on the head, sir.

There's no accounting for liking.  People like things for a range of reasons, no rationale required, which is absolutely fine.

It would be nice if everyone was consistent, but they aren't.  Many will bend over backwards to justify or excuse a behavior with something they like, while savaging something else they don't like that does the exact same thing.  Just human nature, I guess.

GW2 will probably be a fun game.  And, it will probably feel more like a game/e-sport than an immersive, virtual world.  It will probably also have flaws, or things that some individuals characterize as flaws because they don't like them.  Unfortunately, it also looks like it's going to be a lot more similar to existing games than it's going to be different.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

4/11/12 11:54:17 AM#76
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Zekiah
It's a good thing that people aren't willing to pay for food, cars, houses or operations that aren't finished because I guarantee you they'd try to sell us that crap if they could get away with it. The gaming industry is the only one I know of that people gladly hand over wads of cash for unfinished products.

 

Actually, people pay money for all these things before seeing them in their finished state, especially when whatever it is is especially desirable. A lot of products (and services) are paid for on faith and reputation alone.

I don't usually pre purchase, but to me, and others, GW2 is particulalry desireable.

And it's less expensive then buying a new build house.

People don't pay for those things knowing they're going to be incomplete and missing items. That's the point you and others are failing to grasp here.

someone else made this agrument but ill elaborate... MMos and games are released incomplete every day and people BUY then knowing this. D3 will release without PVP that means its incomplete.. do you REALLY think that will lower its sales? Many indie games today are bought in advance with hopes of it being a great game when it comes out.

But your statement is pretty loaded.. you are implying that we think GW2 is incomplete and I for one completely disagree with that. Like any MMO they will relase whats ready and patch and expand as it goes. Think of this point though... GW2 is releasing a game with an amount of content on par or greater than the average release MMO. They are also making sure that things will work properly before its released.. we know this because they have said it many times. Think about TSW.. TSW in no way will be ready for release in June yet they stick to that date and are now selling lifetime subs...

 

  st4t1ck

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 585

4/11/12 11:59:54 AM#77
@rohn quote system not working for me. but poster above me, thats like asking me to trust someone that burned me as much as i trust someone that hasn't. if of my friends asked me to borrow money, one has paid me back before and one has stiffed me, who do you think will get the loan. Obviously some feel different about certain companies and some can do things others can't. its a trust thing
  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

4/11/12 12:00:58 PM#78
Originally posted by Hurvart
I dont think I would pay the full price, $30K, in advance for a car that I maybe would get 6 months later. Without even knowing what features it would have or its exact performance.
Maybe,if I really wanted the car, I would be prepared to pay $5K in advance.

 

That are a lot of people that gets very suspicious as soon as someone wants them to give them money. Typically they would never buy anything from anyone based on faith and reputation if they had to pay in advance. As soon as paying in advance was mentioned they would scream and run.

you might not but many do and the bit it red is silly.. you know the features of a car or game or w/e before its done.. if you dont then the company fails at advertising and you fail at research.

If you apply this to GW2 then see this thread to educate yourself.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/337506/page/1

as for performance well.. no one will ever know that about a video game because it changes for each computer and depending on how many people are in game. So that you will NEVER know until you play the game for a time on your own system.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

4/11/12 12:01:10 PM#79

OMG!  Just yesterday I bought a pizza and a half pitcher of beer, before the product was finished!

Well, I guess the beer was finished, but it could have been flat! That means I totally got ripped off!!

 

Why the hell am I paying for my food ahead of time, when its an unfinished product!   

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

4/11/12 12:05:43 PM#80
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by slicknslim88

Anybody who has bought a Capcom game, EA game, or a Blizzard game in the last several years has bought an unfinished game.  It's nothing new in today's gaming world anymore unfortunately.

 

So, the question is: Why is it evil when other game companies do it, but awesome when ANet does it?

I've been asking myself that a lot recently, over a range of things (i.e. "P2W" cash shop, instanced PvP, EZ mode instant gratification 80s for PvP, easy fast travel, meaningless game world, etc).

Exactly, why? The answer is simple, fans of games tend to ignore quite a bit of truth and reality in order to justify their purchase.

We've all done it, just most refuse to admit it.

 

You've hit the nail on the head, sir.

There's no accounting for liking.  People like things for a range of reasons, no rationale required, which is absolutely fine.

It would be nice if everyone was consistent, but they aren't.  Many will bend over backwards to justify or excuse a behavior with something they like, while savaging something else they don't like that does the exact same thing.  Just human nature, I guess.

GW2 will probably be a fun game.  And, it will probably feel more like a game/e-sport than an immersive, virtual world.  It will probably also have flaws, or things that some individuals characterize as flaws because they don't like them.  Unfortunately, it also looks like it's going to be a lot more similar to existing games than it's going to be different.

 

HAHA! You guys are hilarious, seriously.

You sound like wannabe psychiatrists, do you have any degrees or you just making this stuff up as you go? I mean, I know these are forums, and your free to speak your mind, but are we now analyzing each others every move? Really?

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