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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Anet taking your money before cash shop is done.

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167 posts found
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7356

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

4/11/12 6:32:50 AM#61
Originally posted by PieRad

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet

 

Look, seriously, cash shops and subs both have the same impact on a dev.. they both require you to be in game to keep the money rolling in and that means retaining you with an ongoing quality, fun, and/ or compelling service.

Ofc players have value to them after they buy the box, even those that don't use the shop, because one day they MIGHT (and probably will) use the shop. They can't sell you stuff if you uninstall their game.

 

 

 

And the continued P2W assertion... I won't even bother debating with you why you are wrong, because it's been said before and it's obvious that you aren't interested in a sensible conversation about it.

TBH, this looks like just another trash thread to demonise ANet and kill enthusiasm for this game. Whether it's professionally motivated or not I will leave to others to decide.

 

 

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

4/11/12 6:34:16 AM#62
Originally posted by Kreedz

This topic again, really?...

 

League of Legends, a F2P MOBA, had 32 million people playing it 4 months ago... I'm going to guess its closer to 40 million by now. League of Legends has a cash shop, where you buy Champions, Skins and Boosts to increase XP or IP gain per match, but you never have to invest any money into it if you dont want to, yet I'd wager a majority of those 40 million people at least buy a champion or two with real money, I don't see people calling that game Pay 2 Win.

 

So.... how is GW2 pay to win again? Oh... right, the XP boosts.

Because we all know how important levels in GW2 are, and how reaching level 80 before other people is paramount to being succesful. /sarcasm  d-_-b

 

By that logic, Anyone deciding to start playing any mmo already released is at a disadvantage.

 

/facepalm


To win you must first compete. If you are not competing in any way nothing will be P2W. It makes no difference what they sell in the CS in that case. You will not think its P2W anyway.

So its pointless to try to determine if the game is P2W or not. And this is true for any game with a CS.

But based on available info they will sell advantages. You dont have to buy them. But you can...

  Honner

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 506

4/11/12 6:37:16 AM#63

Well the only think I may want from the cash shop are skins, and because the PvP is skill based not gear, I don't really care what they sell in the cash shop at this point... FPS games cosh the same as GW2 or even more and I play them for a week, I'm pretty sure I will be playing GW2 for longer than that.

It's a game not a house ''IF'' it isn't worth it at all what u may lose? $60? come on....

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7356

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

4/11/12 6:37:34 AM#64
Originally posted by evicton
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by aesperus

This whinning is getting to the point, where I don't think Anet can do any right to some of these people. The saddest thing is some of these posters are grilling Anet for almost nothing, yet their post history shows them posting support in one of the threads for a game made by a company with an actual history of screwing over their players. Kinda funny, in a very sad sorta way.

Agreed, particularly those that insist that all forms of cash Shop are P2W

Oh, you mean like NCSoft, oh... wait...

 

^ Doesnt understand the difference between Developer and Publisher.

NcSoft is more then just the publisher, they own ANet and thus can force them to do whatever they want.

 

Agreed. And, that aside, I think most posters here underestimate the influence the publisher has on game design in general in this industry.

Trying to seperate NCSoft from ANet is like trying to seperate Bioware from EA. Some fans might try to, because they find the connection uncomfortable, but they are fundamentally the same thing when it comes to the making of money.

Luckily, I don't mind NCSoft for the most part so I don't carry that baggage, even though they have made serious blunders in the past.

  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

4/11/12 6:39:19 AM#65
Originally posted by aithieel

I don't understand these complains about cash shop. In Guild Wars cash shop didn't give you any adventage, I don't see any reason why they'd change it.

This is because you haven't adopted the role of perpetual victim.  Once you do that, you will find a treasure trove of things to complain long and hard about.

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

4/11/12 6:39:58 AM#66
Originally posted by Falcomith

Funny, the OP only posted once in his own topic and not participating in the debate. Not like it would matter since hes been misinformed. All the leaked shop pics show that there are no P2W items. Also I havent caught ANet lying or being crafty on any topic. Everything they said has showed truth, therefore I believe there statement that they dont want P2W items in there shop. And yes, I prepurchased because they have shown nothing, but honesty.

 

To know whether or not it is "P2W", the competitions of interest need to be defined. 

 

For many people, PvP is the only competition of interest.  Structured PvP is definitely not P2W since it  puts every participant on an equal ground skill, gear and traitwise. As for World vs World: we know that there are certain buffs that can be gained through buying influence through gold, which can be gained through item mall currency; however, we do not know how hard or easy it will be for guilds to grind to gain the same buffs. If it is a matter of weeks or even months of grind required to catch-up to the spenders, and the difference if buff-power is significant, then it can be considered to be pay-to-win.

 

Nevertheless, for many people, PvP is not the only competition of interest.  The are other types of competitions which may interest people: PvE-related competitions, vanity, wealth, crafting, etc.

 

For vanity and wealth: depending on the form of those competitions, they are definitely pay-to-win.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

4/11/12 6:40:00 AM#67
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by aesperus

This whinning is getting to the point, where I don't think Anet can do any right to some of these people. The saddest thing is some of these posters are grilling Anet for almost nothing, yet their post history shows them posting support in one of the threads for a game made by a company with an actual history of screwing over their players. Kinda funny, in a very sad sorta way.

Agreed, particularly those that insist that all forms of cash Shop are P2W

Oh, you mean like NCSoft, oh... wait...

 

^ Doesnt understand the difference between Developer and Publisher.

^ Doesn't understand who makes the rules.

  Cetra

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 371

4/11/12 6:41:47 AM#68
Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

i'm rich and i dont care.

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

4/11/12 6:47:47 AM#69

They can have my $80 for the digital deluxe edition; I know I will get that much and more out of the purchase.

What does it mean to "win" in a MMO anyhow? I'm here to have some fun. Everything normalizes at the level cap to some extent anyhow.

  NeoZcar2

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 137

4/11/12 6:48:06 AM#70

The simple fact of the matter is these posts and arguments have no merit. This isnt some Bioware/EA company that has lied every step of the way through development. This isn't Blizzard who lies straight faced to you while raping you from behind with a cactus. This is Arenanet. This is a company who has always kept there word since the very conception of the company. The same Arenanet who \has had a Cashshop in their last B2P title for over 6 years now that never even considered a need  to go P2Win.

At this point all evidence points to Arenanet being completely honest and having always done right by their customers. All evidence says that they will not turn this game B2Win, but there is still a few anti-GW2 Zealots out there who are on their holy crusade to smear a game and a game company that they fear. A company who has been so completely good to its customers it gives them nightmares in their sleep of a day when they and their "precious game" are completely obsolete because no other company can even begin to look as good and as willing to please in comparison.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

4/11/12 6:48:40 AM#71
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by aesperus

This whinning is getting to the point, where I don't think Anet can do any right to some of these people. The saddest thing is some of these posters are grilling Anet for almost nothing, yet their post history shows them posting support in one of the threads for a game made by a company with an actual history of screwing over their players. Kinda funny, in a very sad sorta way.

Agreed, particularly those that insist that all forms of cash Shop are P2W

Oh, you mean like NCSoft, oh... wait...

 

^ Doesnt understand the difference between Developer and Publisher.

^ Doesn't understand who makes the rules.

I've never supported Cash Shops as a way to sustain a product. It almost always turns into some form of P2W or P2W-Lite. 

Look at World of Tanks. Their developers SWORE up & down during beta that their cash shop wouldn't have any P2W products within it. However, here we are more than a year after release and GOLD AMMO (gives more penetration per round vs armor) remains the single most unbalancing products within their Cash Shop. Seriously, when a Tiger can kill an is-4 1v1 because the Tiger is using gold ammo that's a little retarded, but I digress from WoT.

 

I've never seen a cash shop done right so far, and that's primarily due to Publisher greed forcing the developers into a certain position. Remember one thing if nothing else, a company such as NCSoft are funding the development of GW2 to do one thing....MAKE MONEY. Do you honestly think that if something REALLY nice (like P2W hourly XP boosts) isn't going to be put into the Cash Shop to make money for that company? They aren't making this game FOR YOU afterall. They're doing it to turn a profit. Cash Shops, unless P2W centric, generally do not make much money compared to a standard sub model. Granted, if your game is terrible to begin with a Cash Shop will be more profitable than a standard sub, but if they actually tried to begin with the sub model of even 250,000 players would be far more profitable than a Cash Shop.

 

Look at Blizzard, do you REALLY think that if Cash Shops were more profitable they would have kept a standard sub fee for this long? Hell, the only thing they sell in THEIR cash shop (BS btw to have a Cash Shop in a sub game) is pretty much mounts that look pretty. Even that isn't generating them a lot of revenue, and in fact is just another way to pad the pockets of the senior execs in EA-Blizzard.

 

-My 2cents

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Honner

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 506

4/11/12 6:49:22 AM#72
Originally posted by Cetra
Originally posted by PieRad

If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

 

After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

 

There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

 

This way they get money from both sides.

 

 

 

 

 

i'm rich and i dont care.

LOL u don't need to be rich, you just need a job and then spend the money on whatever you want.

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

4/11/12 6:49:32 AM#73
Originally posted by Talin

They can have my $80 for the digital deluxe edition; I know I will get that much and more out of the purchase.

What does it mean to "win" in a MMO anyhow? I'm here to have some fun. Everything normalizes at the level cap to some extent anyhow.

See my post above yours.

  Honner

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 506

4/11/12 6:53:16 AM#74
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by aesperus

This whinning is getting to the point, where I don't think Anet can do any right to some of these people. The saddest thing is some of these posters are grilling Anet for almost nothing, yet their post history shows them posting support in one of the threads for a game made by a company with an actual history of screwing over their players. Kinda funny, in a very sad sorta way.

Agreed, particularly those that insist that all forms of cash Shop are P2W

Oh, you mean like NCSoft, oh... wait...

 

^ Doesnt understand the difference between Developer and Publisher.

^ Doesn't understand who makes the rules.

I've never supported Cash Shops as a way to sustain a product. It almost always turns into some form of P2W or P2W-Lite. 

Look at World of Tanks. Their developers SWORE up & down during beta that their cash shop wouldn't have any P2W products within it. However, here we are more than a year after release and GOLD AMMO (gives more penetration per round vs armor) remains the single most unbalancing products within their Cash Shop. Seriously, when a Tiger can kill an is-4 1v1 because the Tiger is using gold ammo that's a little retarded, but I digress from WoT.

 

I've never seen a cash shop done right so far, and that's primarily due to Publisher greed forcing the developers into a certain position. Remember one thing if nothing else, a company such as NCSoft are funding the development of GW2 to do one thing....MAKE MONEY. Do you honestly think that if something REALLY nice (like P2W hourly XP boosts) isn't going to be put into the Cash Shop to make money for that company? They aren't making this game FOR YOU afterall. They're doing it to turn a profit. Cash Shops, unless P2W centric, generally do not make much money compared to a standard sub model. Granted, if your game is terrible to begin with a Cash Shop will be more profitable than a standard sub, but if they actually tried to begin with the sub model of even 250,000 players would be far more profitable than a Cash Shop.

 

Look at Blizzard, do you REALLY think that if Cash Shops were more profitable they would have kept a standard sub fee for this long? Hell, the only thing they sell in THEIR cash shop (BS btw to have a Cash Shop in a sub game) is pretty much mounts that look pretty. Even that isn't generating them a lot of revenue, and in fact is just another way to pad the pockets of the senior execs in EA-Blizzard.

 

-My 2cents

Well the gold ammo was always there since I played WoT form the beta until now form time to time. And why do you compared a F2P game with a B2P game? the only incoming of WoT for example is from the cash shop, etc...

  Bhorzo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/10
Posts: 193

4/11/12 6:59:50 AM#75
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

I've never supported Cash Shops as a way to sustain a product. It almost always turns into some form of P2W or P2W-Lite. 

Look at World of Tanks. Their developers SWORE up & down during beta that their cash shop wouldn't have any P2W products within it. However, here we are more than a year after release and GOLD AMMO (gives more penetration per round vs armor) remains the single most unbalancing products within their Cash Shop. Seriously, when a Tiger can kill an is-4 1v1 because the Tiger is using gold ammo that's a little retarded, but I digress from WoT.

 

I've never seen a cash shop done right so far, and that's primarily due to Publisher greed forcing the developers into a certain position. Remember one thing if nothing else, a company such as NCSoft are funding the development of GW2 to do one thing....MAKE MONEY. Do you honestly think that if something REALLY nice (like P2W hourly XP boosts) isn't going to be put into the Cash Shop to make money for that company? They aren't making this game FOR YOU afterall. They're doing it to turn a profit. Cash Shops, unless P2W centric, generally do not make much money compared to a standard sub model. Granted, if your game is terrible to begin with a Cash Shop will be more profitable than a standard sub, but if they actually tried to begin with the sub model of even 250,000 players would be far more profitable than a Cash Shop.

 

Look at Blizzard, do you REALLY think that if Cash Shops were more profitable they would have kept a standard sub fee for this long? Hell, the only thing they sell in THEIR cash shop (BS btw to have a Cash Shop in a sub game) is pretty much mounts that look pretty. Even that isn't generating them a lot of revenue, and in fact is just another way to pad the pockets of the senior execs in EA-Blizzard.

 

-My 2cents

 

What about Guild Wars 1?

They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2540

4/11/12 7:07:44 AM#76

As long where living in a capatialistic world they will do whatever it takes to get your money if its p2w they go for it. And with stiff competions also from tablets and smartphones to survive they sell there soul to the devil to get some cash.

YOU the customer have the power to stop this DONT buy and they change but if you buy(many do) dont come here complaining about cashshops.

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  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

4/11/12 7:09:19 AM#77
Originally posted by Bhorzo
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

(quote)

 

What about Guild Wars 1?

They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

 

As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

  Buttski

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 191

4/11/12 7:14:34 AM#78

hilarious to see how retarded this community is that it fall to every troll.

 

gj op :D

  Zeroxin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2516

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

4/11/12 7:19:42 AM#79
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Bhorzo
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

(quote)

 

What about Guild Wars 1?

They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

 

As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

And GW1 also didn't allow in-game currency to be shifted to item mall currency which allows for a win-win for both parties who partake in the trade. Keep in mind that you can buy many of the boosts, lockboxes and keys in the shop, from in-game vendors and merchants as well and the only thing a person playing the game could really want from the item mall is a costume or more character slots.

This is not a game.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11552

4/11/12 7:19:44 AM#80
Originally posted by PieRad
 Anet taking your money before cash shop is done.

should we say the same about Blizzard?

Blizzard is taking peoples money before the *final* details of how the Diablo3 AH is done?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4062879314

 

GW2 is still in beta - people that want to prepurchase are aware of this

 

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