Trending Games | Landmark | World of Warcraft | Hearthstone | Camelot Unchained

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,919,833 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,310,375
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Virtual World Role Playing Games(VWRPGs)

12 Pages First « 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Search
238 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/19/12 8:53:19 PM#221
Originally posted by Suraknar

Well I think you are pushing the issue towards a place which does not apply.

First paragraph: We are talking about an organic Experience here inside the world.

Please tell me in the example of the Themepark you gave, how does the choice of player A to level through a Dungeon heavy play style affect player B who chooses to PvP? It does not. Both players are completelly separate from one another. There is nothing organic in that. It is all mechanical, all contains individual choices which are limited by the mehcanical nature of the game's design which is geared towards one and only one end, individual progression.

Second paragraph:

All games have a Scope, a themepark games has a different Scope than a World game, I beleive we are repeating already debunked issues. Not all scopes are the same, not all scopes provide the same experience. in General the Scope of Themeparks translates to a mechanical gameplay experience. While the Scope of a World translates to an Organic gameplay experience.

Third paragraph:

The notion of Static was in relation to the Overal Experience of the game that is made around Rides such as a Themepark, and not in relation to the rides themselves which can be as stated in a previous reply organic or not in and of themselves. For both player A B and C the experience is the same playing a Themepark game, it is static untill it changes via an expantion or a patch.

While in a a World, player A B and C can have very different experiences inside the same world and sicne Worlds as per above statements are Organic in nature.

Example, we all live on a World we call Earth, yet the experience of our life is different for someone living in a America from someone living in France from someone living in Congo. It is organic as the choices people make affect that world, even if some of the mechanics are the same everywhere, we all need to eat and eat something, if we jump we come back down to earth, if we fall we can hurt ourselves, if we get stabbed we all bleed, taking a hammer and hiting a nail works the same way everywhere in that world, yet those same motions can have very different results from person to person.

Another way to look at it in relation to the Game vs World issue.

A Game's Gameplay Experience is defined by the Devellopers.

A World's Gameplay Experience is defined by the Players.

Typically organic in games mostly refers to how the human element causes the experience to vary.  When I choose dungeons over PVP, my experience has varied.  (And even in your odd version, you're going to see players in each activity because those players chose that activity, so yes it's still organic even then.)

Typically scope in games refers to the amount of actions or features a game provides.  "Scope creep" involves spending more dev hours on something (usually to flesh out the feature better) for example.

I'm not talking about what themeparks "generally" do, but what the actual limits of themeparks are.  We're just talking about rides though, so as long as the rides are predetermined, any interactivity or organic functions of the ride are perfectly within reason.  PVP is an example of a very organic ride: WOW's AB basically condenses Territory-Control Sandbox PVP into a 15 minute experience which resets at the end.  But during the match the current state of the game is entirely based on the organic interactions between players.

So again, either type of game is going to be able to provide an organic experience.

As for paragraph 3, we've already gone over why the play experiences of players A, B, and C were all different.  If they made the exact same choices it would be more similar (though still different due to the other players' around them and their actions), but that's a player choice organically determining the play experience...so it's organic.

If we were talking about super linear games like Passage, maybe all this talk of games not being organic would ring truer.  But we're talking about MMORPGs.  Even themeparks are very dynamic, organic games.

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

 
OP  4/19/12 9:22:28 PM#222

you guys are wildly off topic and also never ever going to agree. Point of thread is not to argue over whether themeparks can be organic...

  jwarner100

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 5

4/19/12 9:28:50 PM#223

Deep non combat systems like crafting and magic and building and politics and socializing

No instances and generally open worldish

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/19/12 9:41:22 PM#224
Originally posted by Cuathon

you guys are wildly off topic and also never ever going to agree. Point of thread is not to argue over whether themeparks can be organic...

If we were talking over people genuinely discussing the point of the topic, that would matter.

Since we're not, there's no reason not to let discussion continue.  Nobody's forcing you into the tangental conversation.

  drbaltazar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7987

4/19/12 9:45:47 PM#225

virtual world?you are probably fairly young cause sadly this term is moslty related to gaming or computing with head mounted display!we had that at the beginning in the arcade in the 90s!was surprising for the time!so i am not sure your term exaclty say what you mean!but i like smmorpg.s for sandbox!cant be mistaken!

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

 
OP  4/19/12 10:03:54 PM#226
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Cuathon

you guys are wildly off topic and also never ever going to agree. Point of thread is not to argue over whether themeparks can be organic...

If we were talking over people genuinely discussing the point of the topic, that would matter.

Since we're not, there's no reason not to let discussion continue.  Nobody's forcing you into the tangental conversation.

pretty sure long offtopic discussions still aren't allowed. Also 2 people just posted on topic so you are wrong.

  Suraknar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 813

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

4/19/12 10:36:47 PM#227
Originally posted by Axehilt

Typically organic in games mostly refers to how the human element causes the experience to vary.  When I choose dungeons over PVP, my experience has varied.  (And even in your odd version, you're going to see players in each activity because those players chose that activity, so yes it's still organic even then.)

Typically scope in games refers to the amount of actions or features a game provides.  "Scope creep" involves spending more dev hours on something (usually to flesh out the feature better) for example.

I'm not talking about what themeparks "generally" do, but what the actual limits of themeparks are.  We're just talking about rides though, so as long as the rides are predetermined, any interactivity or organic functions of the ride are perfectly within reason.  PVP is an example of a very organic ride: WOW's AB basically condenses Territory-Control Sandbox PVP into a 15 minute experience which resets at the end.  But during the match the current state of the game is entirely based on the organic interactions between players.

So again, either type of game is going to be able to provide an organic experience.

As for paragraph 3, we've already gone over why the play experiences of players A, B, and C were all different.  If they made the exact same choices it would be more similar (though still different due to the other players' around them and their actions), but that's a player choice organically determining the play experience...so it's organic.

If we were talking about super linear games like Passage, maybe all this talk of games not being organic would ring truer.  But we're talking about MMORPGs.  Even themeparks are very dynamic, organic games.

Thanks, I understand your point of view and rationale. Now let me express mine, and I hope you can understand it too even if it is different than yours.

 

Typically organic means simply alive, as opposed to Innorganic and not alive, or in the player perspective Jargon...mechanic.

So we have two terms that are being used differently from a Devellopment perspective and a Player perspective.

I go with the player perspective because this is a Player's forum and a Player's discussion. Therefore, lets agree to use the term as players understand it, not as Devs understand it and reduce as much as possible confusion in the discussion.

So as a player, I want a Game that is Organic, and not a game that is Mechanic. I want an Organic experience and I believe that an MMO designed as a World can provide that experience as opposed to an MMO designed as a Game which provides a Mechanic Experience, no matter if the Designer thinks that all their Elements of that Game are organically linked together and present Organic Options or variety to the player. To me, as a player, it seems mechanic.

And let me demonstrate, with my experience in two rather popular games each in their own time.

1st - My Experience in WoW. I see that game as mechanic, even if it contains some organic elements, such as, as you mention PvP in the battlegrounds. Why do I think it is mechanic?

Because all its elements however organically distributed from the Dev perspective to follow one another in a fluid path, still are part of a predefined Path. It is intende for me to follow that path in order to progress the levels and power of my character, I have a couple of main choices to do so, namelly PVE and PvP with Crafting and Gathering as Supportive mechanisms offering some variety allong the way. Yes I can choose to engage in PVP or PVE or Mix them to the percentage of play I choose, and each player has a different distribution of the time they spend doing one or the other. But all players walk the same Path within the game for the same goal that is established by the Designer. Progress your character and augment its power, that is all there is to it in reality. All the choices of actions the players make are made for the same goal.

That is the Game, and that is why it is a Game MMO.

So what did I do in WoW, I leveled, and leveled, and once leveled leveled more through Gear, I did not like the PVE because it was so repetitive but also because it is innorganic in my view, always the same static experience, Molten Core is always the same every time you do it you have to kill the same boses the same way the same mobs the same drops so I continued progression through PvP instead, because it was a more Organic Experience even if AB or WSG or AV takes places always in the same environement at least each game was different, with different challenges, different participants, even after I reached grand Marshal in vanilla, i continued playing in PvP it was fun while it lasted.

2nd - My Experience in Ultima Online. I see that game as Organic, because there is no predefined path by the Designer for me. The Designer built the environment and established its parameters but then let the players set their own goals in it.

So I started as a newbie a nobody, just another player, I explored the world I got killed looted had some set backs but all these were lessons and experiences which enriched me as a player and person in relation to other people, like a baby learning to make its first steps sometimes you stumble and hurt yourself and slowly you learn to walk better. Some time later I made some friends these friendships opened the way to more and my character's social network expanded within the world, I joined a guild, met its people had fun with its people in all kinds of activities we shared good time and also bad times, we faced adversity together and had to fend off assaillants (PKs) both from inside and outside. So I became a Ranger in that guild I opened a recruiting Sub Section of the guild, and welcomed more people in it, the guild grew and prospered. Unfortunatelly some internal strife caused a split and so here I was with some four other rangers on our own. A new begining, we decided to start over and cary on the Legacy, founded our own Guild (the one that I am part of to this day), and slowly build a Community in our little corner of that world. In time, others around that world had similar experiences and so more in game communities appeared, and at one point we all came together to create a grand Community in our Server. Many of these other Community leaders I played with and shared the Experience in the Atlantic Shard of UO went on thereafter and got involved in the Industry as well, peoples such as Aleph Ayers (aka Aether), Community Director/Manager in games such as Matrix Online and POTBS and Greypawn Community manager of SWG at one point, Andrasta Community Coordinator over at Stratics for UO still and many many others. My chracters went from newborn to Ranger to Knight to Duke, leader of OSS community of Serpent's Hold, Frounder of the Britannian War Counsil, Leader of one of the Virtue Councils and member of the Grand Assembly of Virtue Councils (a sorts of United Nations kind of thing etsablished in our server), founder of the Regency and Territorial War Project (a player created RvR system), as well as Role Play teacher in one of the most proeminent in game Schools for the young during all the 5 years I played UO.

And I as a player got to witness this Organic evolution of the life of this Character in the world called Britannia, its actions, its glorious battles, its festive participation its creative undertakings its recognition by its peers its mentoring of so many others to do the same, its  social influence and long lasting Friendships and brothers and sisters in arms and warrior spirit.

So now tell me...how can you expect me as a player  to play a game such as WoW and enjoy or appreciate its attempt to be entertaining to me? To me it is nothing compared to the Organic Experience I have had before it in a World MMO. It is simple , it is consttraining, it is limited, it is shallow, it is mondane...in comparison, it is mechanic and innorganic and any game like it, included.
 

Only an MMO built as a world can provide that experience. So who can emulate the ingenuity and vision of Raph Coster, Star Long and Richard Garriot which made that experience possible? That is the real Question.

And that is what many of us players have been waiting for, roamming from MMo to MMO in the mean time.

Who? You? They?...maybe me? We shall see.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/19/12 11:15:57 PM#228
Originally posted by Suraknar

Well the issue is mainly that you seem to think if a game has any mechanical elements it's immediately 100% mechanical.  If you concede WOW has organic elements (and in fact it has an awful lot) then why not concede the truth of the matter: that themeparks can be awfully organic, and in fact making them more organic would make them better games even if the rides reset when you're done with them.

It's fine for you to only enjoy excessively organic MMORPGs.  But it's silly to call themeparks "mechanical" simply because they have fewer organic elements (particularly if you put tons of effort into creating your own game in UO and didn't put forth the same effort in WOW.)

  Suraknar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 813

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

4/19/12 11:43:53 PM#229
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Suraknar

Well the issue is mainly that you seem to think if a game has any mechanical elements it's immediately 100% mechanical.  If you concede WOW has organic elements (and in fact it has an awful lot) then why not concede the truth of the matter: that themeparks can be awfully organic, and in fact making them more organic would make them better games even if the rides reset when you're done with them.

It's fine for you to only enjoy excessively organic MMORPGs.  But it's silly to call themeparks "mechanical" simply because they have fewer organic elements (particularly if you put tons of effort into creating your own game in UO and didn't put forth the same effort in WOW.)

But that is the point, a Game such as WoW no matter the effort you may put, does not offer the same possibilities.

That is the core of this thread, and why people want to make a distinction between an MMO that is a Game and an MMO that is a World.

As for the concession that WOW hs organic elements, this still does not make it an Organic experience overal or an organic game, you are limited by the progression path that is set for the player by the design. Especially when the meaning of "organic" is viewed from the dev perepctive.

It can be argued that WoW has an organic setup for instance, the Quests leading to instances leading to raids, or the "organic" progression in skills for each class. Yet that does not provide an organic experience in the sense of a Live evolution of the Player and its character in that world still because there is only a single goal permitted in the game.

We are exhausting here the ways we can express the difference, by now I would have hoped that it is evident to you that there are indeed differences between the two Design approaches. Are you trying to make your point by attrition?

PS: Also, I know I may seem a bit harsh towards WoW, but please note that I make my qualifications within the context of the thread's discussion and topic and as a player who has experienced both types. It maybe mundane compared to UO, but on its own as a stand alone game it can be a fun story book revealing itself as the player progresses through it.

 

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  vaeiou

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/12
Posts: 39

4/20/12 12:18:02 AM#230

Games like League of Legends already belong in its own genre (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, moba), and virtual worlds such as Second Life are better off labeled as simply virtual worlds because they aren't exactly 'games' in the traditional sense. 

I feel that MMORPGs should be used to define games that puts a large amount of players in a persistent instance, if that makes any sense.  They must also be games, which sets it apart from Second Life.  Whether or not it feels organic shouldn't be part of the discussion. 

League of Legends | Guild Wars 2
Follow me at:
mostlygamingblog
Twitter

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

 
OP  4/20/12 9:12:40 AM#231

W00t! VOW is catching up with VW. Soon my favored version shall be number one.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2265

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

4/20/12 9:15:15 AM#232

This is a really smart idea.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/20/12 11:25:09 AM#233
Originally posted by Suraknar

It can be argued that WoW has an organic setup for instance, the Quests leading to instances leading to raids, or the "organic" progression in skills for each class. Yet that does not provide an organic experience in the sense of a Live evolution of the Player and its character in that world still because there is only a single goal permitted in the game.

We are exhausting here the ways we can express the difference, by now I would have hoped that it is evident to you that there are indeed differences between the two Design approaches. Are you trying to make your point by attrition?

Possibly.

The discussion is a bit like someone pointing out that a wall is colored Light Grey, while another person says the wall is Black because it's not White.  The first man might point out that it makes more sense to call the Light Grey wall "White" than "Black", but at a certain point the extremist "No, it's Black!" person must be deemed beyond hope.  It's still worth trying to reinforce the logical reality of the situation on that person for a while though.  I like spreading truth.

  Suraknar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 813

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

4/20/12 1:30:36 PM#234
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Suraknar

It can be argued that WoW has an organic setup for instance, the Quests leading to instances leading to raids, or the "organic" progression in skills for each class. Yet that does not provide an organic experience in the sense of a Live evolution of the Player and its character in that world still because there is only a single goal permitted in the game.

We are exhausting here the ways we can express the difference, by now I would have hoped that it is evident to you that there are indeed differences between the two Design approaches. Are you trying to make your point by attrition?

Possibly.

The discussion is a bit like someone pointing out that a wall is colored Light Grey, while another person says the wall is Black because it's not White.  The first man might point out that it makes more sense to call the Light Grey wall "White" than "Black", but at a certain point the extremist "No, it's Black!" person must be deemed beyond hope.  It's still worth trying to reinforce the logical reality of the situation on that person for a while though.  I like spreading truth.

Yes, I will agree to that, it is a complex discussion, many concepts involved but also difference of opinion based on varied perspective and perception. Even so I feel like overall the discussion has went well..no emotional outbursts as of yet ;)

I agree about truth, but in some cases truth can be relative or there can be more than one truth.

It dpends on how much divergent intelligence each person has or to be more precise, with how much divergent intelligence each person evaluates the topic of discussion.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

4/20/12 6:10:48 PM#235

It's difficult to find where to step into this thread!

#1 Here's another preference for the acryonm: VWRPG

I think the use of mmorpg vs vwrpg vs mmorpw is favorable for VWRPG as in the thread. Putting Virtual World as the prefix is part of the reason why (utility of emphasis) but also a new usage to suggest something different from MMO- which itself is multiplying into various guises additional to RPG or even MMO. Also VW helps distinguish an RPG in a themepark which is like a lot of consequative missions seemingly, esp. if level structured, vs a world with a sphere of opportunities (avatar) and directions (world)?

#2: A game vs a simulation: Game -> Simulation

I saw in a blog someone using the distinction (will pull up the ref if I find it): that generally a game might involve actions -> reactions as you'd expect whereas a simulation is more about inputs and outputs within a network that influence the connections within that network is more the point of the gameplay. So one is more linear whereas the other is more multidirecitonal if aiming to be an even drier description.

However, if that sounds like the worst, terrible definition jumbled together, this is where it makes more sense: A game like WoW can be treated like a game to play, by most people but for some who become really into it and the mechanics that run the gameplay rules, the experience becomes more like a simulation of the patterns underlying everything.

Perhaps where a virtual world makes a departure is being more upfront about this process right out of the gate? So there's always going to be A -> B etc but nested within all sorts of other interrelations that are considerably influence that simple action. Pathfinder Online had something like this with some themepark content focus with how that leads to different players interracting with each other depending on their skill training?

Not entirely happy with this idea of game -> simulation, a bit theoretical, but at least makes the connection between 2 types of experiences. : )

#3: ... feel like I've just eaten some enormous bowl of porridge *taking a break to digest*.

So by hook or by crook, a virtual world is less immediate because the focus of gameplay is more about the learning and dealing with all the connections throughout the game ie balance of interactions (?) or because development cannot afford the luxury of designing one gameplay area way beyond the other areas, such as octane twitch combat gameplay eg for interacting with ALL the other game modules.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/20/12 9:06:11 PM#236
Drbaltazarr..

Lol... we've been calling Mmorpg "virtual worlds" since eq..! You must be pretty young to think it refers to "head display".. . Lol!

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

 
OP  4/20/12 9:13:40 PM#237
Originally posted by Phelcher
Drbaltazarr..

Lol... we've been calling Mmorpg "virtual worlds" since eq..! You must be pretty young to think it refers to "head display".. . Lol!

+1

  Suraknar

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 813

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

4/20/12 10:32:10 PM#238
Originally posted by MumboJumbo

It's difficult to find where to step into this thread!

#1 Here's another preference for the acryonm: VWRPG

I think the use of mmorpg vs vwrpg vs mmorpw is favorable for VWRPG as in the thread. Putting Virtual World as the prefix is part of the reason why (utility of emphasis) but also a new usage to suggest something different from MMO- which itself is multiplying into various guises additional to RPG or even MMO. Also VW helps distinguish an RPG in a themepark which is like a lot of consequative missions seemingly, esp. if level structured, vs a world with a sphere of opportunities (avatar) and directions (world)?

#2: A game vs a simulation: Game -> Simulation

I saw in a blog someone using the distinction (will pull up the ref if I find it): that generally a game might involve actions -> reactions as you'd expect whereas a simulation is more about inputs and outputs within a network that influence the connections within that network is more the point of the gameplay. So one is more linear whereas the other is more multidirecitonal if aiming to be an even drier description.

However, if that sounds like the worst, terrible definition jumbled together, this is where it makes more sense: A game like WoW can be treated like a game to play, by most people but for some who become really into it and the mechanics that run the gameplay rules, the experience becomes more like a simulation of the patterns underlying everything.

Perhaps where a virtual world makes a departure is being more upfront about this process right out of the gate? So there's always going to be A -> B etc but nested within all sorts of other interrelations that are considerably influence that simple action. Pathfinder Online had something like this with some themepark content focus with how that leads to different players interracting with each other depending on their skill training?

Not entirely happy with this idea of game -> simulation, a bit theoretical, but at least makes the connection between 2 types of experiences. : )

#3: ... feel like I've just eaten some enormous bowl of porridge *taking a break to digest*.

So by hook or by crook, a virtual world is less immediate because the focus of gameplay is more about the learning and dealing with all the connections throughout the game ie balance of interactions (?) or because development cannot afford the luxury of designing one gameplay area way beyond the other areas, such as octane twitch combat gameplay eg for interacting with ALL the other game modules.

#3 - I think because many Devs just addopted the "Game" model rather than the "World" model and run with it instead, trying to outdo one another by refining it and making a profit in the process.

Technically speaking there are no constraints in creating a World MMO, it is not a mystery either there are multiple examples, few compared to the "game" approach but still there one could draw inspiration from.

In fact technology has advanced enough so making an MMO with the world approach would be even more possible now and could offer many more possibilities than before. But it seems no one want to take the risk of making one and everyone is waiting to see if somewhere allog the line an Indie World MMO would make an impact so that others can feel safe following.

It is just how the genre followed one line of evolution, and neglected the other to a point where now it looks like a risk to make one on the other line...

There are some attempts in the horizon, ArchAge is one of them, it still holds on to the Game approach precepts and it will seem as a Hybrid to many but at least it is an attempt to slowly and carefully move to the other branch.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

12 Pages First « 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Search