Originally posted by RefMinor
We need VWRPG virtual world RPG as a separate genre as MMORPG is a lost cause.

I think so too. MMORPG has become a catch all phrase for uh everything that includes more then a few players pretty much.

Whoever said Second Life is a game, i'm not sure where game fits into it. It is a virtual world experience and not a nice one at that but that's my opinion

Originally posted by Loke666

I am not really sure how GW2 will be right now, at least most of the game isn´t instanced so it could be worse but fast travel really have it´s downsides. They should have just gone to fast travel between towns instead of everywhere.

And yeah, it sucks that everyone is hanging in towns and waiting for fast travel to instances, stuff like dungeon finders have made it even worse.

But as I see it is the overuse of instances the real problem here. Most of the players are not really in the game but at a personal instance for them and maybe their group.

At least GW2 wont be so bad there, it is my hope that someone else will continue and evolve the ideas until we get something that have the massive feel the old games had. But GW2s use of DEs instead of quests actually have a huge potential of turning the MMOs more massive again. I hope it leads to a turning point where players and devs realie that MMOs are more fun the more players are around.

I think GW2 won't do badly Loke. I think it will probably be one of the best lately to come out. They've released enough info that anyone who complains they didn't get the experience they thought they would get must be living under a rock.

I still have hope for the game which cannot be named for fear of it not releasing at all.

Originally posted by Cuathon

We have absolutely no idea how an AAA PvE focused sandbox would fare because WoW took over the world before one had time to be made.

 

No. But are you willing to bet $50M to find out the answer?

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Originally posted by tixylix
We're seeing MMOs go from large open worlds like UO,SWG,EVE,EQ and WoW to smaller battleground and instance based like SWTOR and even what WoW has turned into today. The problem I have with that is now every new shooter or online games in general have character progression and even character customization such as hats in TF2. I slowly wonder why we pay a monthly fee for the latest MMOS when their "worlds" are instanced zoned up like crazy and they're now smaller than standard online games. SWTOR for example just has you standing in the fleet station and entering raids or battlegrounds which don't even have 32 people as most standard online games of today. 
I used to love the open world WoW had with all the large scale PVP and how the instances were built into the world which you had to travel and fight the enemy outside them. Yet all they've done since is kill off the world and just have people standing in cities and instant travelling to battlegrounds and instances. Like why am I paying a subscription for what isn't even an MMO anymore?
Now MMOs are becoming smaller and instanced are the lines between MMOs and other genres being blurred? We now have standard online games with 64 players, character progression and customization and offering larger scale gameplay than MMOs.
I personally don't class todays MMOs as MMOs and just see them as like Guild Wars or Diablo. However we're not getting these MMO worlds anymore like we once did, which is such a shame as I thought as tech evolved we'd just get bigger and less zoned/instanced. Everyone is claiming GW2 will change all this, but from all the gameplay videos and info, it's all instant travel everywhere, killing off the world already and you'll just be in battlegrounds.
 
humph... just hate it.

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Todays generation want instant travel instant uberness no time sink no grind no thinking no chat with others and gear set 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10... endless raids and with macros and mods so they can also leave the keyboard thats these days standard.

So hopefully GW2 is answer and salvation to this mindboggeling boring mmo's we have these days mainly themeparks have this problem.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

We have absolutely no idea how an AAA PvE focused sandbox would fare because WoW took over the world before one had time to be made.

 

No. But are you willing to bet $50M to find out the answer?

If I had hundreds of millions of dollars I would bet $25mil to try out a possibly lucrative idea. However I don't. I am willing to bet my whole life though, however much that is worth, and am doing so right now.

The next ten years will be a golden age for mmorpgs.

The first thing that will happen is that real time combat aka rts will become the norm as the technology is starting to mature for that. I dont know who, but i anticipate one or two companies that develop game engines will stand above the rest, and this technology will open the gates for a myriad of high quality mmo's in all kinds of themes.

This sounds crazy, but i believe mmo's will go back to first person. Along with this shift will come the players demand for higher quality gameplay and immersion.

the reasons for this are simple. It takes years to mmomature, and there are 10m or so doing that right now in wow, but its getting old and as players mature, they will have no choice but to crave deeper, more innovative gameplay and they will want a personal quality to the game (that truely only first person can provide)

all of this will come together with the invention of the oled tv, which will change how we see games forever with the introduction of the 180 degree curved screen,  which will further serve to bolster the immersion in first person.

The next thing that will happen will be the integration of the themepark with the sandbox as standard for all mmo's. Some will say it cant be done, but it can and will be done, and all players will be happier for it.

Rulesets will change as well. Anything that can be done ingame through the use of graphics will be done that way and youll see a huge reduction in the use of UI's and text, and a huge increase in the use of voice. You will be able to pick the voice you want and the computer will modulate it in the game (what else are you going to do with all those cores).

xbox kinnect technology will undergo some sort of super upgrade transformation, and it will somehow become a new device for windows pc's allowing players to comfortably play mmorpgs from the comfort of their living room while giving them unlimited freedom of play.

Its not the end of mmo's.. but rather the begining.

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

We have absolutely no idea how an AAA PvE focused sandbox would fare because WoW took over the world before one had time to be made.

 

No. But are you willing to bet $50M to find out the answer?

If I had hundreds of millions of dollars I would bet $25mil to try out a possibly lucrative idea. However I don't. I am willing to bet my whole life though, however much that is worth, and am doing so right now.

Good for you. At least you put your time where your mouth is, which is better than 99.9% of the ranting people here.

Personally, i won't spend that much of my life for entertainment but i suppose it is a larger part of your life than mine. Good luck!

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

We have absolutely no idea how an AAA PvE focused sandbox would fare because WoW took over the world before one had time to be made.

 

No. But are you willing to bet $50M to find out the answer?

If I had hundreds of millions of dollars I would bet $25mil to try out a possibly lucrative idea. However I don't. I am willing to bet my whole life though, however much that is worth, and am doing so right now.

Good for you. At least you put your time where your mouth is, which is better than 99.9% of the ranting people here.

Personally, i won't spend that much of my life for entertainment but i suppose it is a larger part of your life than mine. Good luck!

Making an VWRPG IS entertainment. In a more abstract sense making an MMORPG fulfills all the desires fulfilled by playing an already made VWRPG. Its challenging intellectually, your actions matter, the game is persistent. What you do is permanent, unless your computer gets erased :) You work with others, either through utilizing their libraries, getting help on forums and blogs, discussing ideas, getting people to provide art assets, connecting with people who are interested in the same kinds of games and activities as you and so forth.

Making my own VWRPG is 100x more fun than playing cookie cutter themeparks and I can still play games like TSW GW EvE and other games that are pushing in the direction I want to go.

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

Making an VWRPG IS entertainment. In a more abstract sense making an MMORPG fulfills all the desires fulfilled by playing an already made VWRPG. Its challenging intellectually, your actions matter, the game is persistent. What you do is permanent, unless your computer gets erased :) You work with others, either through utilizing their libraries, getting help on forums and blogs, discussing ideas, getting people to provide art assets, connecting with people who are interested in the same kinds of games and activities as you and so forth.

Making my own VWRPG is 100x more fun than playing cookie cutter themeparks and I can still play games like TSW GW EvE and other games that are pushing in the direction I want to go.

Keep posting your progress.

Even though mostly likely i won't play your game, it is entertaining to see how the development progress goes.

Good luck!

My progress is constantly stalled by restrictive licenses and poor integration and documentation of libraries. I can see why more people don't push forward to make multiplayer or massively multiplayer games. Holy crap is it a pain.

I yearn for my days with PHP. It was flawlessly integrated with css, html, javascript, jquery, and mysql.

C++ is a crazy all over the place shitfest.

To be fair, it has much more powerful capabilities. But god is it a pain.

I have been saying for several years now nearly everything others here have said. Nice to see others finally waking up to see the light as well. Just too bad it is a bit too late. You can thank WoW for it. Mainstreaming MMORPG's and showing other companies the ridiculous cash you can make off them opened the door for cookie cutter games by the truck loads with as simplistic gameplay as possible to milk the zombie masses fo every cent they can.

This is also why monthly fees have gone away. Companies know impatient players these days will pay more via cash shops to get that advantage and shiney faster. It's competition to be #1 in everything...like console FPS games, etc that matters more now than community and helping one another and making friends...as the genre started as.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

I have been saying for several years now nearly everything others here have said. Nice to see others finally waking up to see the light as well. Just too bad it is a bit too late. You can thank WoW for it. Mainstreaming MMORPG's and showing other companies the ridiculous cash you can make off them opened the door for cookie cutter games by the truck loads with as simplistic gameplay as possible to milk the zombie masses fo every cent they can.

This is also why monthly fees have gone away. Companies know impatient players these days will pay more via cash shops to get that advantage and shiney faster. It's competition to be #1 in everything...like console FPS games, etc that matters more now than community and helping one another and making friends...as the genre started as.

Join the OWRPG/VWRPG movement then :) At least 15 people understand that we have a problem.

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Originally posted by rungard
The next ten years will be a golden age for mmorpgs.
The first thing that will happen is that real time combat aka rts will become the norm as the technology is starting to mature for that. I dont know who, but i anticipate one or two companies that develop game engines will stand above the rest, and this technology will open the gates for a myriad of high quality mmo's in all kinds of themes.
This sounds crazy, but i believe mmo's will go back to first person. Along with this shift will come the players demand for higher quality gameplay and immersion.
the reasons for this are simple. It takes years to mmomature, and there are 10m or so doing that right now in wow, but its getting old and as players mature, they will have no choice but to crave deeper, more innovative gameplay and they will want a personal quality to the game (that truely only first person can provide)
all of this will come together with the invention of the oled tv, which will change how we see games forever with the introduction of the 180 degree curved screen,  which will further serve to bolster the immersion in first person.
The next thing that will happen will be the integration of the themepark with the sandbox as standard for all mmo's. Some will say it cant be done, but it can and will be done, and all players will be happier for it.
Rulesets will change as well. Anything that can be done ingame through the use of graphics will be done that way and youll see a huge reduction in the use of UI's and text, and a huge increase in the use of voice. You will be able to pick the voice you want and the computer will modulate it in the game (what else are you going to do with all those cores).
xbox kinnect technology will undergo some sort of super upgrade transformation, and it will somehow become a new device for windows pc's allowing players to comfortably play mmorpgs from the comfort of their living room while giving them unlimited freedom of play.
Its not the end of mmo's.. but rather the begining.
 
 
 

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Ithink on most cases your right but you will also get a devided community a huge chunk of players will go mainstream and dont real matter there controlled by those companys but also a group who want total freedom in games and how they being manage.

XBOX-BLIZZARD-APPLE and so many more wanne controll you wanne know everthing about you and your needs i think many starting to realise they dont want that and companys will catered to them.

I think Arenanet/Bethesda for example has made a step in that direction let the players deside what they want at least for a themepark and solo RPG thats a huge step towards freedom but still not realy a sandbox.

But indeed in next 5 years alone alot will change.

Originally posted by Cuathon

My progress is constantly stalled by restrictive licenses and poor integration and documentation of libraries. I can see why more people don't push forward to make multiplayer or massively multiplayer games. Holy crap is it a pain.

I yearn for my days with PHP. It was flawlessly integrated with css, html, javascript, jquery, and mysql.

C++ is a crazy all over the place shitfest.

To be fair, it has much more powerful capabilities. But god is it a pain.

That is the issue. Having ideas is not nearly close to enough to make a good software product. There are TONS of implementation and technical issues.

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

Join the OWRPG/VWRPG movement then :) At least 15 people understand that we have a problem.

Problem as in YOU do not like the games being produced right now?

It is certainly NOT a problem for me. I have fun games to play. In fact, Diablo 3 is going to be entertaining for quite a while before MoP comes out. And i am not even counting all the F2P games I want to, but have little time to really play.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

Join the OWRPG/VWRPG movement then :) At least 15 people understand that we have a problem.

Problem as in YOU do not like the games being produced right now?

It is certainly NOT a problem for me. I have fun games to play. In fact, Diablo 3 is going to be entertaining for quite a while before MoP comes out. And i am not even counting all the F2P games I want to, but have little time to really play.

Well if you don't have a problem, clearly you do not have a problem. But I have a problem, and goatgod has a problem, and the 20 posters in my VWRPG thread have a problem, so we are working to resolve the problem.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

My progress is constantly stalled by restrictive licenses and poor integration and documentation of libraries. I can see why more people don't push forward to make multiplayer or massively multiplayer games. Holy crap is it a pain.

I yearn for my days with PHP. It was flawlessly integrated with css, html, javascript, jquery, and mysql.

C++ is a crazy all over the place shitfest.

To be fair, it has much more powerful capabilities. But god is it a pain.

That is the issue. Having ideas is not nearly close to enough to make a good software product. There are TONS of implementation and technical issues.

I would argue that 99% of people don't even have good ideas. 99% of those that do do not have my programming or math skills. 99% that do get pissed of by annoying licenses and the way different APIs are so restrictive and unable to work with other ones. 99% of the people who don't get put off have no money, much like me.

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

I would argue that 99% of people don't even have good ideas. 99% of those that do do not have my programming or math skills. 99% that do get pissed of by annoying licenses and the way different APIs are so restrictive and unable to work with other ones. 99% of the people who don't get put off have no money, much like me.

And I would argue that you put 3 reasonable smart people in a room for 3 hours, you have more good ideas to implement for the rest of your life.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Good implementation .. not so much.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

I would argue that 99% of people don't even have good ideas. 99% of those that do do not have my programming or math skills. 99% that do get pissed of by annoying licenses and the way different APIs are so restrictive and unable to work with other ones. 99% of the people who don't get put off have no money, much like me.

And I would argue that you put 3 reasonable smart people in a room for 3 hours, you have more good ideas to implement for the rest of your life.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Good implementation .. not so much.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Even implementations are. Good ideas and good implementation are not, and even rarer is to see them together.

Originally posted by Cuathon

My progress is constantly stalled by restrictive licenses and poor integration and documentation of libraries. I can see why more people don't push forward to make multiplayer or massively multiplayer games. Holy crap is it a pain.

I yearn for my days with PHP. It was flawlessly integrated with css, html, javascript, jquery, and mysql.

C++ is a crazy all over the place shitfest.

To be fair, it has much more powerful capabilities. But god is it a pain.

Having an Idea is the easy part isn't it? Why not start a blog on the ups and downs on creating an MMO and maybe others might rethink their fantastic idea "that'll make millions" or "all this games needs is..." and they might understand the workings of a machine they so easily criticise.