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News & Features Discussion  » EVE Online: The End of The Mittani Era

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291 posts found
  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 802

4/03/12 2:51:23 PM#161
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

To your example , yes its ok. Becuase your are not in control of anothers actions. (Wow the first person in this thread to attempt a stright answer, might you be spining sir?).

Now i do not mind EVE taking action, however, it should be of approprate nature. Like sorry braw, no more fan fest speeches for you. That is logical.

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

 

If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship. If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong. Which bit of that is causing you trouble?

All of it , or what?

Why do you feel that way?

Situation 1, "If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship." -  and someone kills themself , thats ok ?

thats not your problem

Situation 2  "If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong." and if they kill themself , thats not ok?

giving the guys ingame name and telling the audience that they should try to get him to kill himself makes you a douchebag and is a problem


You have to see the hypocrisy here. Its ok to kill the ship and have them kill themself, but not ok to encourage others to kill the ship and have them kill THEMSELF (caps just so you get the point of who is killing who).

I can't believe you can't see the difference between the two. hopefully those two sentences above in yellow you will read REAL slow and actually comprehend them ... doubt it but I will keep trying

 

Well theres no point in contiuing,  One day you'll learn that killing some one and hiring someone to kill them the same thing. Both actions were equal, one of them just bothers some moral code you learned somewhere, which is fine, but not logical or fair;   until then peace.

Also your still missing the intent, context and subtext my friend.

LOL what does that even have to do with anything? more of your awesome analogies? just stop.

someone tells you hes going to kill himself in game if you destory his ship ... thats on them not you.

you going to a public forum and telling others "hey lets try to get this guy to kill himself ... here is his ingame name" you have made a problem for yourself. they are not equal in the least bit you thinking so shows you have some sort of f'ed up view on reality.

  jdnewell

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1847

4/03/12 2:52:54 PM#162
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 

I think the ultimate problem is that this man Alex Gianturco, never had an opprtunity in life to properly socialize as a human being with fellow human beings.

This behavior is alarming from a high school sophomore but not totally unexpected. When this behavior originates from a 33 year old adult, I find myself at a loss for words.

I have to agree.

 

  SkexRelbore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/07
Posts: 30

4/03/12 2:55:44 PM#163

Originally posted by GeezerGamer






 




 



I believe they are reffering to this message


http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march


in one breath he admits his terrible mistake, and in the next he is blaming everyone for his getting a ban.


Beyond that, he plans to rally his entire alliance to Storm Jita to prove a point to mke himself some White Knight returning in triumph after having been wronged. 


When really, all he's doing is intentionally disrupting everyone in the game's experience because he's upset.


That's a Temper Tantrum.



 


LOL you are clueless,


Noting that there were factors that may have affected the severity of the reaction to his screw up is not the same as blaming everyone else for his actions. The ban is pretty much immaterial since he doesn't actually log into the game anyway nor does he need to in order to run the swarm or the coalition. Hell they could perma ban him and the only thing it would do would be to stop him from being able to troll the EVE-O forums. 


The Jita interdiction was planned long before any of this happened, the only thing that changed was the "justification", originally it was to be a celebration of 10k votes in the CSM election now it's going to be a celebration of the Space King's return from exile.  It's just Goons being Goons and providing an ungrateful player base with content to enrich their gaming experience. 


 


 


  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4763

4/03/12 3:11:10 PM#164
Originally posted by SkexRelbore

Originally posted by GeezerGamer






 




 


I believe they are reffering to this message


http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march


in one breath he admits his terrible mistake, and in the next he is blaming everyone for his getting a ban.


Beyond that, he plans to rally his entire alliance to Storm Jita to prove a point to mke himself some White Knight returning in triumph after having been wronged. 


When really, all he's doing is intentionally disrupting everyone in the game's experience because he's upset.


That's a Temper Tantrum.



 

LOL you are clueless,


Noting that there were factors that may have affected the severity of the reaction to his screw up is not the same as blaming everyone else for his actions. The ban is pretty much immaterial since he doesn't actually log into the game anyway nor does he need to in order to run the swarm or the coalition. Hell they could perma ban him and the only thing it would do would be to stop him from being able to troll the EVE-O forums. 


The Jita interdiction was planned long before any of this happened, the only thing that changed was the "justification", originally it was to be a celebration of 10k votes in the CSM election now it's going to be a celebration of the Space King's return from exile.  It's just Goons being Goons and providing an ungrateful player base with content to enrich their gaming experience. 


 


 

This is a perfect example that is at the heart of this thread.

When did we as a society degrade ourselves to the point where this type of interactive behavior become an acceptable form of communication?

 

 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Dalano

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 116

4/03/12 3:15:08 PM#165

Man, this site has really gone downhill. Staff writer or no, this didactic, pedantic piece of crap-ola should never have been published here. This is D-grade blog rubbish at its worst.


/logout


Playing: FFXIV, EVE

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

4/03/12 3:21:53 PM#166
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by colddog04

I believe the person to blame for this person's suicide rests solely on the person who commited suicide.

 

The fact that it was over in game items only reinforces that. And assuming that this was the only problem in this persons life in naive.

True but that does not mean you roll up to a suicidal person and egg him on.  There are certain things that aren't socially accepted, he appeared to have stepped over the line and got punished for it.  His temper tantrum after receiving his punishment should give you a pretty good idea of the calibre of his character and moral judgement.

Considering the fact the news reports outright lied about the things he apparently did, I'd be mad too.

If a news report came up to say 'JPNZ called John Smith to do bad thing' when the truth was 'JPNZ called Batman do bad thing', wouldn't I be upset?

He did something that was deemed not socially acceptable and got punished for it.  Considering the current climate on cyber-bullying, as ridiculous as it is, he did something that he shouldn't have done.  He got punished for it, quite lightly if you ask me - again considering the current climate.  People have to take responsibility for their actions, which the latest generation seems alergic to.

As a grown up, we take our lumps and keep moving but the immaturaty of his SOTG address just confirms what people are saying about him, he does himself no favors.  If he thinks shutting down Jita is going to get him anything possitive, he's wrong (highly doubt that's what he's going for).  If he gets banned from the game for organizing an event that downs the node, he only has himself to blame.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

4/03/12 3:23:04 PM#167
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by SkexRelbore

Originally posted by GeezerGamer






 




 


I believe they are reffering to this message


http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march


in one breath he admits his terrible mistake, and in the next he is blaming everyone for his getting a ban.


Beyond that, he plans to rally his entire alliance to Storm Jita to prove a point to mke himself some White Knight returning in triumph after having been wronged. 


When really, all he's doing is intentionally disrupting everyone in the game's experience because he's upset.


That's a Temper Tantrum.



 

LOL you are clueless,


Noting that there were factors that may have affected the severity of the reaction to his screw up is not the same as blaming everyone else for his actions. The ban is pretty much immaterial since he doesn't actually log into the game anyway nor does he need to in order to run the swarm or the coalition. Hell they could perma ban him and the only thing it would do would be to stop him from being able to troll the EVE-O forums. 


The Jita interdiction was planned long before any of this happened, the only thing that changed was the "justification", originally it was to be a celebration of 10k votes in the CSM election now it's going to be a celebration of the Space King's return from exile.  It's just Goons being Goons and providing an ungrateful player base with content to enrich their gaming experience. 


 


 

This is a perfect example that is at the heart of this thread.

When did we as a society degrade ourselves to the point where this type of interactive behavior become an acceptable form of communication?

 

 

Since people felt the need to hero worship clowns.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  Torqia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/10
Posts: 75

Nemo saltat sobrius

4/03/12 3:25:01 PM#168

I personaly think the author has done a mess of an article trying to excuse that behavior. 


True people went overbord and started lying to make the story better but that does in no way excuse what he did.. hes on the CSM for christ sakes.. hes an ambassador for the gamers, and he did it so blantantly and publicly... 


How the hell can you defend that? you say we are all cyber-bullies?? yearh 1 v 1 perhaps, not in public and with his position. With great power comes great responsabilites. Dont forget that.


 


https://www.ticketsolutions.com/blogs/intentional-foul/images/keyboardsmash.gif

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1049

4/03/12 3:25:50 PM#169

Originally posted by SkexRelbore




Originally posted by Talonsin

You are so wrong on so many counts that it would take me much longer than I am willing to spend to help you sort out your mixed up ideas.  Let me start by posting this:

 


The term "cyberbullying" was first coined and defined by Canadian educator and anti-bullying activist Bill Belsey, as "the use of information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm others." 


 


The website you quoted is devoted to stopping teen cyberbullying hence they use the word teen it in their definition.  Most adults are not committing suicide from cyberbullying like teens are so the organization you quoted focuses on young adults.  Your analogy about James Earl Jones is complete nonsense since Mr. Jones did not ask people to email an emotionally unstable person and tell them to commit suicide.  A better analogy would be if Mittani found a kid with down syndrome who liked to eat boogers and then asked thousands of people to mail the kid boogers because he thought it was funny.  Either way, Mittani personally and NOT IN GAME asked thousands of real people (MANY OF WHOM ARE IN HIS ALLIANCE AND DO WHATEVER HE SAYS) to convince a known emotionally unstable person to take his own life. 

 


You can paint it any way you like but it was wrong and regardless of the apology, shows what kind of person Alex truely is

 




[Mod Edit]

 

A few things.


1. The first person to call names has run out of fact to back his claim and it is a show of low intelligence.


2. Your argument is based on what Alex did in the game but what he did was in real life. 


3. My fictional persona (Talonsin) was just judged by you to be an idiot.  Why is it ok for you to judge people based on what they do online and then criticize others for doing it? 


4. It is very obvious you are a GOON and are emotionally involved in this issue. 


Thanks, and have a nice day.


  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

4/03/12 3:26:16 PM#170
Originally posted by SkexRelbore

Originally posted by Quesa


Originally posted by colddog04


I believe the person to blame for this person's suicide rests solely on the person who commited suicide.


 


The fact that it was over in game items only reinforces that. And assuming that this was the only problem in this persons life in naive.


True but that does not mean you roll up to a suicidal person and egg him on.  There are certain things that aren't socially accepted, he appeared to have stepped over the line and got punished for it.  His temper tantrum after receiving his punishment should give you a pretty good idea of the calibre of his character and moral judgement.



 

What temper tantrum? The only communications I've seen from the Mittani on this issue have  been to admit his own error take responsibility for it and take actions to compensate the offended party.

His address to the Goonion, aptly named, The State of the Goonion(SOTG), where he starts planning a Jita node crash because he was wronged.  He may have admitted his error but it's all negated when he spews off about how CCP wronged him and he's not going to take it sitting down - then plans a Jita protest (which will probably crash the node and if that happens, they'll likely ban him).

  BarCrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/25/07
Posts: 2195

4/03/12 3:30:51 PM#171

Originally posted by vorpal28

The reason for this is there is no free speech, and never has been, say something thats not agreed by the masses and you'll be censored so fast your feet won't touch the ground.




Upshot being you don't dare say anything thats not mainstream in fear of being flamed to death.




Here's a qoute for those who know and sums it up rather succinctly:




 "...Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!.."




 




If you believe something say it, you can only be wrong, you might even be right, but it's your right to speak and be heard, right or wrong.





 


That's a great Hick's quote but I don't see this as the same thing. Speech is free but no one is free from the consequences of their words. You can not urge others to  harass a person in obvious need of help with the intent of driving them to kill themselves..without paying a price. We're suppose to be pursuing happiness..not misery.


  Mackeh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 170

4/03/12 3:46:58 PM#172

It's articles like this that scare the shit out of me.  There are people out there that take playing a stupid game to life and death levels, if ever the phrase GET A LIFE should be used it's here.

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

4/03/12 3:49:43 PM#173

In my opinion, I wish natural selection once again played a part in the human evolutionary chain.


 


We have waaaay too much stupidity, mental disease, and bleeding hearts who want to give everyone a trophy for participation, for my taste.


 


 


  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4763

4/03/12 4:35:54 PM#174
Originally posted by Ruien

In my opinion, I wish natural selection once again played a part in the human evolutionary chain.


 


We have waaaay too much stupidity, mental disease, and bleeding hearts who want to give everyone a trophy for participation, for my taste.


 


 

Interesting.

So, who gets to define "stupid"?

Who gets to define "mental illness" and when it's punnishable by death?

What is the definition between managing the lowest common denominator and what's best for society?

What happens when you your self fail to meet the every aspect of those defined standards set forth in your own utopian society? Or would you simply design rules to make sure that didn't happen?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  White_Tree

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/11
Posts: 14

4/03/12 4:39:18 PM#175

Why do people think I'm conducting some sort of 'Mittani Apologism' here. I pointed out what he did was stupid and wrong, I also pointed out he apologised. The ultimate point I was trying to make was that by witch-hunting a person, our actions become as vile or worse than the actions of the original perpetrator. 

I think mob justice is ridiculous.

  DLangley

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 1430

4/03/12 4:46:01 PM#176

Hey guys let's cut out the baiting and personal attacks.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

4/03/12 4:46:49 PM#177
Originally posted by White_Tree

Why do people think I'm conducting some sort of 'Mittani Apologism' here. I pointed out what he did was stupid and wrong, I also pointed out he apologised. The ultimate point I was trying to make was that by witch-hunting a person, our actions become as vile or worse than the actions of the original perpetrator. 

I think mob justice is ridiculous.

 

Very few comments here have been calling for more punitive action than has happened already, most of the debate On this thread has been between those who agree with you and me that Alex Gianturco's actions were stupid and wrong and those who believe he did nothing much wrong.
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4763

4/03/12 4:47:08 PM#178
Originally posted by White_Tree

Why do people think I'm conducting some sort of 'Mittani Apologism' here. I pointed out what he did was stupid and wrong, I also pointed out he apologised. The ultimate point I was trying to make was that by witch-hunting a person, our actions become as vile or worse than the actions of the original perpetrator. 

I think mob justice is ridiculous.

Agreed, it is. It's cliche but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

But neither does the fact that he is reaping what he has sewn absolve him of his behavior in the 1st place.

 

Another issue here is that people keep bringing up the actions of the Mittani.

None of this happened in EVE. It was NOT Mittani but Gianturco. And Gianturco needs to answer for the actions of Gianturco at a corporate sponsored public event.

NOT The Mittani.

 

Thefact that the consistent behavior of some ficticious role played character in a virtual environment can be used to excuse the real life behavior of a flesh and blood human being shows a very real disconnect from reality.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  White_Tree

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/11
Posts: 14

4/03/12 4:49:14 PM#179

Lets not pretend what he did was a good or socially acceptable thing, but I accept that his apology was real, personally. I know the guy, to some extent. I worked with him on the CSM and I genuinely believe he fumbled the ball and the price exacted for it is more than apt. He himself expressed regret and I honestly feel thats noble of him. My primary complaint, personally, was with the aformentioned witch-hunt that occured.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4763

4/03/12 4:53:19 PM#180
Originally posted by White_Tree

Lets not pretend what he did was a good or socially acceptable thing, but I accept that his apology was real, personally. I know the guy, to some extent. I worked with him on the CSM and I genuinely believe he fumbled the ball and the price exacted for it is more than apt. He himself expressed regret and I honestly feel thats noble of him. My primary complaint, personally, was with the aformentioned witch-hunt that occured.

He should not be publically persecuted.

But as you can see, if you are not careful with what you do in public, it can have some very real effects.

 

It's the irony that he is having to face the very thing he urged on someoen else.

No, there is no satisfaction, but there is a lesson.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

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