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News & Features Discussion  » EVE Online: The End of The Mittani Era

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291 posts found
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

4/03/12 1:58:28 PM#141
Originally posted by SkexRelbore

Once again INTENT. 


You are making a huge assumption that I don't think is supported by any evidence., That assumption being that Alex really thought the guy was serious about offing himself. 


I think it's perfectly clear that Alex did not in fact believe that the threat was serious (it wasn't BTW).


 


The idea of alchohol not being an excuse in a setting is a legal conciet to prevent people from using it to get away with intentional criminal activity. Driving under the influence is illegal because it's that alchohol impair judgement and reaction time and as such one is expected to take precautions (while still sober) to avoid being in a situation where one would end up operating a vehicle while drunk. This is because an automobile is effectively a deadly weapon. 


But you know what? even the legal system recognizes that there is a difference between driving under the influence and killing someone as a result vs killing someone intentionally while sober. That's why the charge is Manslaughter rather than murder. Because context and circumstances provide mitigating and exacerbating factors. 


The guy who goes out and kills 3 kids as a result of driving while drunk is not treated the same legally as one who picks up a revolver and goes out and shoots 3 kids to death. 


It's the difference between stupid and evil. 


If Alex were the sociopath people are claiming he is and he really believed that The Wis was sincere in his threat and really wanted to see the guy kill himself don't you think he's shown sufficient intellegence so far in his years of play to avoid pushing the issue in such a public place as the alliance pannel at Fan Fest? An event that was being recorded and streamed to all his many many in game enemies who where waiting for the slightest misstep to pounce on?


Get real. It is glaringly obvious that Alex did not believe The Wis, that he thought the guy was full of it and the ill advised drunken call to spam him was not in fact intended to make the guy kill himself. 

 

Some people aren't interested in logic or what's intuitively obvious. They want blood, and it seems no resolution short of physical harm or total ostracism will satisfy them. 

 

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3461

4/03/12 2:00:56 PM#142
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by colddog04

I believe the person to blame for this person's suicide rests solely on the person who commited suicide.

 

The fact that it was over in game items only reinforces that. And assuming that this was the only problem in this persons life in naive.

True but that does not mean you roll up to a suicidal person and egg him on.  There are certain things that aren't socially accepted, he appeared to have stepped over the line and got punished for it.  His temper tantrum after receiving his punishment should give you a pretty good idea of the calibre of his character and moral judgement.

Considering the fact the news reports outright lied about the things he apparently did, I'd be mad too.

If a news report came up to say 'JPNZ called John Smith to do bad thing' when the truth was 'JPNZ called Batman do bad thing', wouldn't I be upset?

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

4/03/12 2:03:18 PM#143

I wouldn't even call the people described in this article as "gamers".....

Gaming is all about sharing a MUTUALY ENJOYED shared activity. It's about EVERYONE having fun. Not about beating up on somebody else (whether the game is PvP or PvE focused). In baseball you may defeat the other Team 15-0 but at the end of the game, you walk over and shake the other teams hands and say "Better luck next time, you guys just had an off day...happens to everyone." Things that are on the field, stay on the field....and the second it starts to be about something happening off the field, is the time to stop.

If I encountered someone in a game....any game, where what I was doing was making them feel miserable in real life, the very first thing I would do would be... /Whisper "OOC: Hey, are you ok with this?  I thought we were just playing, but you seem to be getting upset for real?"

If they were getting upset, I'd stop the activity immediately. If I thought they would be ok and were just having a bad day, I'd just walk away. If not, I'd stop playing...talk to them...and if they really were that depressed maybe see if I could get them some RL help.  If that means I lose the game.....big frickin deal....it's just a game, I'm an adult.

The fact that we are even DEBATING about what the right thing to do here is or shaving hairs about the situation just points out exactly how low some elements of this hobby have sunk.

Do you folks even know what GAMING is about.... It's about playing FAIR and EVERYONE enjoying the time we spend together.

Griefing has absolutely no part in gaming. Wanting people to have miserable experiences while playing is the absolute anthisis of what games and gaming is supposed to be about. Anyone that is interested in doing that has no business even calling himself a gamer. Period.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

4/03/12 2:03:31 PM#144
It's funny how even the Mittani admits what he did was wrong and yet people here keep trying to justify it, i wonder why they just dont let the story die rather than endlessly post about how a man who admitted he did something wrong did nothing wrong.
  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

4/03/12 2:07:44 PM#145
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

To your example , yes its ok. Becuase your are not in control of anothers actions. (Wow the first person in this thread to attempt a stright answer, might you be spining sir?).

Now i do not mind EVE taking action, however, it should be of approprate nature. Like sorry braw, no more fan fest speeches for you. That is logical.

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

Answer that. The guy is not dead from everything i know /read about it.

Because this is not part of the narative you know its a witch hunt. But dead or not doesn't change the actions of Alex (It goes both ways, and I am fair enough and in touch with reality enough to admit that).

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

4/03/12 2:11:16 PM#146
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

To your example , yes its ok. Becuase your are not in control of anothers actions. (Wow the first person in this thread to attempt a stright answer, might you be spining sir?).

Now i do not mind EVE taking action, however, it should be of approprate nature. Like sorry braw, no more fan fest speeches for you. That is logical.

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

 

If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship. If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong. Which bit of that is causing you trouble?
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

4/03/12 2:14:52 PM#147
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by colddog04

I believe the person to blame for this person's suicide rests solely on the person who commited suicide.

 

The fact that it was over in game items only reinforces that. And assuming that this was the only problem in this persons life in naive.

True but that does not mean you roll up to a suicidal person and egg him on.  There are certain things that aren't socially accepted, he appeared to have stepped over the line and got punished for it.  His temper tantrum after receiving his punishment should give you a pretty good idea of the calibre of his character and moral judgement.

He does sound like an immature wierdo that cares more about destroying others ego and confidence in order to inflate his own below average self esteem. But isn't that what Goon Squad has always been about? Scamming, ganking, belittling, condescention, etc. I suppose they act that way in order to get that rush that you feel when you have a sense of power.

 

This was video game trash talk. There was no one threatening him at his workplace. There was no one sending him hate mail. There was no one calling his phone or talking to his friends or relatives. Thinking that someone is going to act on their, "I'm going to commit suicide," prattle in a video game is assinine. 

 

The blame of the suicide still rests solely with the person that commited the act. People are and always have been evil pricks to each other. In videogames or otherwise. But to blame this guy for the suicide is more dark and twisted than blaming the person actually responsible for the suicide. The person that did it.

 

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

4/03/12 2:15:44 PM#148

This article started really well with a good summary of the complexity of the situation and the author had a valid observation to make at the end about the complex motives of the community reaction.  But without the over-reaction of the polarized community and media, would the original issue have actually been confronted? 


 


The root question here is how much responsibility do players need to take to protect themselves against the psychological warfare of the game.  If a person goes into a hockey game with no physical padding whatsoever, the arena owner can put rules in place to stop them from getting on the ice.  If a person goes in with no psychological padding whatsoever, it's impossible to tell that they are putting themselves at risk.  


 


The business reality is that there are always two messages being sent out in a game like this: "this is a harsh and unforgiving gang warefare sim" and "this is a safe place to spend your time and escape your day to day life".   Add to this an extremely polarizing leader of player community who only represents one half of that message and it is almost inevitable that there will be a PR meltdown where the two messages collide and there is a massive metagame reaction. 


 


Perhaps it is a sign that the politics of Eve's community has evolved into more than just a game - it's real politics now, with all the good and bad that entails.



 

  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

4/03/12 2:26:48 PM#149
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

To your example , yes its ok. Becuase your are not in control of anothers actions. (Wow the first person in this thread to attempt a stright answer, might you be spining sir?).

Now i do not mind EVE taking action, however, it should be of approprate nature. Like sorry braw, no more fan fest speeches for you. That is logical.

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

 

If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship. If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong. Which bit of that is causing you trouble?

All of it , or what?

Why do you feel that way?

Situation 1, "If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship." -  and someone kills themself , thats ok ?

Situation 2  "If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong." and if they kill themself , thats not ok?

1 - You have acted on someone stating i am going to kill myself if you. You WILLINGLY CHOOSE TO TAKE THAT ACTION, if you BELIEVED that person you just gave them reason to kill themself.  - Outcome: they are dead you evaulated your action agianst the possbility of suicide and took that risk.

2- Already have decieding this individual is lieing (otherwise they are dead, because they killed themselves), you encourgae others to make that person pay for using the threat of suicde to save their digital ship.  - Outcome:  They were lieing, or using a half truth to threaten you and well they are not going to kill themselves (NOTE THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT OCCURED) , or they killed themself because of the increased level of stress and harasment acting on pre-existing plan and desire to kill oneself. 

 

You have to see the hypocrisy here. Its ok to kill the ship and have them kill themself, but not ok to encourage others to kill the ship and have them kill THEMSELF (caps just so you get the point of who is killing who).

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3461

4/03/12 2:26:48 PM#150
Originally posted by RefMinor
It's funny how even the Mittani admits what he did was wrong and yet people here keep trying to justify it, i wonder why they just dont let the story die rather than endlessly post about how a man who admitted he did something wrong did nothing wrong.

I'm not seeing the 'nothing wrong'.

What is upsetting is not actually getting the story right by the various news sites as PER THIS ARTICLE.

You did read the article right? :(

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4388

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

4/03/12 2:28:08 PM#151
 

I think the ultimate problem is that this man Alex Gianturco, never had an opprtunity in life to properly socialize as a human being with fellow human beings.

This behavior is alarming from a high school sophomore but not totally unexpected. When this behavior originates from a 33 year old adult, I find myself at a loss for words.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  SkexRelbore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/07
Posts: 30

4/03/12 2:29:05 PM#152

Originally posted by Quesa


Originally posted by colddog04


I believe the person to blame for this person's suicide rests solely on the person who commited suicide.


 


The fact that it was over in game items only reinforces that. And assuming that this was the only problem in this persons life in naive.



True but that does not mean you roll up to a suicidal person and egg him on.  There are certain things that aren't socially accepted, he appeared to have stepped over the line and got punished for it.  His temper tantrum after receiving his punishment should give you a pretty good idea of the calibre of his character and moral judgement.



 


What temper tantrum? The only communications I've seen from the Mittani on this issue have  been to admit his own error take responsibility for it and take actions to compensate the offended party. 


 


 


  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 791

4/03/12 2:32:11 PM#153
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

he doesn't have a right to threaten Mittiani thats why i already stated if the guy said im going go kill myself because of Mittanis actions and does so i would not blame MIttani in the least (i have said this many many times). Unfortunately there is more to the story and it didn't end there

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

what? lol the medium of course matters going to a public forum and telling people they should try to get this guy to commit suicide IS WRONG

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

  well then you are as big a douchebag as Mittani is simple as that, fact is I wouldn't give a crap if Mittani came out and told all about their scams and crap. but when you give the guys ingame name out and basically tell the audience that they should try and see if they can get him to kill himself. thats BS and over the line.

 

  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

4/03/12 2:32:48 PM#154
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by RefMinor
It's funny how even the Mittani admits what he did was wrong and yet people here keep trying to justify it, i wonder why they just dont let the story die rather than endlessly post about how a man who admitted he did something wrong did nothing wrong.

I'm not seeing the 'nothing wrong'.

What is upsetting is not actually getting the story right by the various news sites as PER THIS ARTICLE.

You did read the article right? :(

i guess wrong is a gerneric term.

Its it nice, no, tastless yes. Moral no. Evil, nope. Wrong? jundgement call. He felt bad about it, for him he feels its not acceptable behavior, thats fine (well after the hounds are after you you start diaphoresis) . To me i find no logical reason to judge him as far has native/human rights he hasn't violated any and is in the moral right there.

 

Ecoes, refer to post 150 , your narative contains no understanding of context or subtext.

Alex isn't saying get this guy to kill himself, he is saying make this guy pay for using a mental health issue as a threat to save his ship or for being a bixxh. Thats context and subtext, like i could say i love bananas in the store and that would be fine. If i say it in a gym's male shower room it might mean something different.

But alex is goona (dasa a pun) say he is sorry, the manufactured rage everyone is so afraid of wins, he will step lightly on the issue, just like everyone else.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4388

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

4/03/12 2:35:01 PM#155
Originally posted by SkexRelbore

Originally posted by Quesa


Originally posted by colddog04


I believe the person to blame for this person's suicide rests solely on the person who commited suicide.


 


The fact that it was over in game items only reinforces that. And assuming that this was the only problem in this persons life in naive.


True but that does not mean you roll up to a suicidal person and egg him on.  There are certain things that aren't socially accepted, he appeared to have stepped over the line and got punished for it.  His temper tantrum after receiving his punishment should give you a pretty good idea of the calibre of his character and moral judgement.



 

What temper tantrum? The only communications I've seen from the Mittani on this issue have  been to admit his own error take responsibility for it and take actions to compensate the offended party. 


 


 

I believe they are reffering to this message

http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march

in one breath he admits his terrible mistake, and in the next he is blaming everyone for his getting a ban.

Beyond that, he plans to rally his entire alliance to Storm Jita to prove a point to mke himself some White Knight returning in triumph after having been wronged. 

When really, all he's doing is intentionally disrupting everyone in the game's experience because he's upset.

That's a Temper Tantrum.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 791

4/03/12 2:38:45 PM#156
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

To your example , yes its ok. Becuase your are not in control of anothers actions. (Wow the first person in this thread to attempt a stright answer, might you be spining sir?).

Now i do not mind EVE taking action, however, it should be of approprate nature. Like sorry braw, no more fan fest speeches for you. That is logical.

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

 

If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship. If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong. Which bit of that is causing you trouble?

All of it , or what?

Why do you feel that way?

Situation 1, "If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship." -  and someone kills themself , thats ok ?

thats not your problem

Situation 2  "If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong." and if they kill themself , thats not ok?

giving the guys ingame name and telling the audience that they should try to get him to kill himself makes you a douchebag and is a problem


You have to see the hypocrisy here. Its ok to kill the ship and have them kill themself, but not ok to encourage others to kill the ship and have them kill THEMSELF (caps just so you get the point of who is killing who).

I can't believe you can't see the difference between the two. hopefully those two sentences above in yellow you will read REAL slow and actually comprehend them ... doubt it but I will keep trying

 

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6486

"Only cunts name their swords"

4/03/12 2:45:14 PM#157

Originally posted by RefMinor


Originally posted by Zaltark

Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.



 


The game is the game, when you confuse it with life you have a problem.

 


It's a game that costs money, alot of money if you convert PLEX to ISK and then lose it when you get your stuff blown up. So I would not say that this game is a simple video game, it is more like online poker and casino with lots of money and time involved.


  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

4/03/12 2:45:39 PM#158
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ecoces

or we can cut out all the bullshit analogies and go on facts ....

if the guy told Mittiani that he was going to kill himself because of Mittanis actions and did so ... no problem

going to a public forum and telling those in attendance that they may be able to get this guy to kill himself ... Problem.

 

so can we please stop the "if a space money said he was sent from god and spoke to your next door neighbor but you didn't believe him and he said he was going to kill himself because of that that is ok?" examples.

 

what i said first are the only two "examples" that actually matter in this equation everything else you're spewing is just nonsense because you really don't have an answer for what i said.

 

i have to ask ... are you drunk?

Fact one, the individual was was "targeted" didn't really care, it was "hurtful" Lots of things in games are hurtful, more so in EVE.
They didn't kill themselves, maybe alex called his bluff or not , how knows, doesn't it matter? No, because the fact is its not his job to care. If someone playing a game threatens you with suicide to save their ship , they desirve it. I would call that BS everyday. That person has no right to threaten you with their life. A point i attepmted to convay via examples. All correct mind you.

All the examples matter for a simple reason , they are all the same act. Thats the point of them. See you guys want to some how limit the implications of your manufactured rage. But you cannot because I am calling you on it.  You cannot have it boths ways, either the action is wrong or its not, the medium doesn't matter.

To your example , yes its ok. Becuase your are not in control of anothers actions. (Wow the first person in this thread to attempt a stright answer, might you be spining sir?).

Now i do not mind EVE taking action, however, it should be of approprate nature. Like sorry braw, no more fan fest speeches for you. That is logical.

So what are the facts agian?

Guy 1 threatens self inflicted bodily harm if Guy 2 doesn't do what he says?  Correct?

Guy 2 goes to a fan meeting and says check this guy out look how he attempted to get out of the destruction of his ship, lets all destory his in game stuff and given him a reason to kill himself? Correct?

Yeah i have no issue with guy 2 calling out guy 1's threat, with his own. Mental issues or not.

 

If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship. If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong. Which bit of that is causing you trouble?

All of it , or what?

Why do you feel that way?

Situation 1, "If someone says they will kill themself if I blow up their ship it is not wrong to blow up their ship." -  and someone kills themself , thats ok ?

thats not your problem

Situation 2  "If I then go to a public event and announce on video that if you want to get that individual to kill himself then you should all blow his ship up in game then that is wrong." and if they kill themself , thats not ok?

giving the guys ingame name and telling the audience that they should try to get him to kill himself makes you a douchebag and is a problem


You have to see the hypocrisy here. Its ok to kill the ship and have them kill themself, but not ok to encourage others to kill the ship and have them kill THEMSELF (caps just so you get the point of who is killing who).

I can't believe you can't see the difference between the two. hopefully those two sentences above in yellow you will read REAL slow and actually comprehend them ... doubt it but I will keep trying

 

Well theres no point in contiuing,  One day you'll learn that killing some one and hiring someone to kill them the same thing. Both actions were equal, one of them just bothers some moral code you learned somewhere, which is fine, but not logical or fair;   until then peace.

Also your still missing the intent, context and subtext my friend.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  iamflymolo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 151

4/03/12 2:46:33 PM#159

I find it a little disturbing and a lot depressing how many people completely miss the point. The Mittani called for people to harrass this character in game so brutally that he would ultimately decide to kill himself in real life. People who would in any way defend the Mittani are essentially placing a higher priority on a game than they are on the life of another human being. The Mittani himself continues to be guilty of this; I believe his appologies are sincere, but he's appologizing for the wrong thing. His appology applies to his being too drunk to hold his tongue. In fact, his being drunk has nothing to do with the issue at hand. As soon as he understands that what he did to this individual is far worse then what people have done by calling him a cyber-bully, I think he may lay off the gaming media a bit. Whether or not he'll ever get it is debatable. There's no reason to think he will when you notice how many gamers and game writers don't get it either.


To say that all of this is all the result of an attempt to dethrone The Mittani is appalling, frankly. I had never before had anything other than admiration for him - not that I've played EVE much, but I've followed it and followed him and watched several videos with him online.


Life is valuable. There are times when we need to be able to take ourselves out of our fantasy characters long enough to assess a situation from a human perspective. Had The Mittani done this, had he taken a moment to say, "here is a man who might be in trouble," this slide would never have been made and we wouldn't be talking about it. If The Mittani actually did do this and made that slide anyway, then "cyber-bully" is the kindest title that could be bestowed on him.


http://www.youtube.com/flymolo

  goatfight

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/11
Posts: 7

4/03/12 2:50:37 PM#160

This article is shameful. Watching the broadcast live I felt utterly embarrased for mittani. Encouraging others to rag on someone who is mentally ill is NOT acceptable in ANY way. His actions deserve consequence -and right now the only consequence he is receiving is the label 'cyber bully' when searching for his name and the stripping of a video game title. He will get a lot more than that, and rightfully so.




I don't think it is very easy for people to understand what life lives like for people in deep depression or who are near suicidal unless they've had a loved one experience it. Intolerance is ignorance,  that kid sure as hell put his ignorance in the spotlight for thousands of people. The fact that he decidedly retold this story (with a look of glee in his face at the time, remember) is a clear insight to his state of being.








He is an unenlightened human being, who repeatedly chose to remain that way. Disgusting. Shame on you for defending his actions and comdemning the community who sought to shed light on his disgusting attitude.





 

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