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News & Features Discussion  » EVE Online: The End of The Mittani Era

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291 posts found
  Ausare

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/11
Posts: 870

4/04/12 12:50:03 AM#221
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by Ausare
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Druft

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/77

From the Apology:

Cyberbullying is a grave issue. Our schools are in chaos; teenagers are driving each other to self-harm with persistent online harassment. It is unequivocally ridiculous to suggest that a stumbling idiot in a wizard hat mouthing off (again, I make no denials - what I said was completely over the line) about an ingame character is the equivalent of youths harassing one another over Facebook until one is driven to suicide. Slapping the label ‘Cyberbully’ - with its high media profile and controversial nature - on my remark was not only manifestly inappropriate but reckless and irresponsible.

 

From the Incident:

"Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself" and then gives out the guys in game name so that others may harass him.

 

 

Completely different from Cyberbullying........

 

How is this NOT Cyberbullying? It's done in Cyberspace, first he was harassed by Mittens and his goons, then Mittens goes on and suggests to others that they try and drive the guy to suicide.............

He got slapped with the label Cyberbully because thats what he F***ing did.

 

Gotta love crap like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKC00a0ovTA#t=42%202s

7:00-7:40 its stated that the theme was to tell others to kill themselves lol.... "I didn't mean to say it I was just drunk" doesn't work to well....

Got to love it.  So if I convince others to pick on you I am not a bully. 

Wait, but the agrument is if he had done this himself he wouldn't have been a bully, he is only a bully because he encouraged others to call that persons bluff.

Double speak much

You are a bully for doing both.

  kovah

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/05
Posts: 694

DaZeD aNd AmUsEd

4/04/12 12:50:59 AM#222

Anyone not following Jester should be.  April 28th is going to be an interesting day for EvE Online.  (DNRA)


  Radar11x

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/07
Posts: 116

Pull the green cord...

4/04/12 1:29:02 AM#223

I never could take Eve seriously and I never will.


  GrayGhost79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

4/04/12 1:46:12 AM#224
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by morlock9

Reading this article was like reading someone trolling.  I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.

 

You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable.  Period, end of story.  This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.

 

In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have.  Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature.  The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.

 

Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.

 

In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now.  I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.

 

...and by the way.  I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are.  I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community.  Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.

 

You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths.  Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention. 

Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP.  Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics. 

Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?  

Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?

How about this.... if we can't manage to draw the line ourselves you do realize there are many groups out there looking for crap like this to happen so they can step in and draw the line for us. If they draw the line then none of us are going to be happy. 

 

And yes Mittens went over the top and then tried to blame it on Alcohol when it backlashed on him. 

  palulalula

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 671

4/04/12 2:07:38 AM#225

For f sake it is just a game! I lost so many ships and billions of isk, who cares. It is good game and for sure best sandbox out there but  this is going out of proportions with that stupid drama about some whining guy who cry about lost  isk, if i only could know his game character name i would gank him all day long. Do not play this kind of games if you are so sensible baby. My advice for game fanatics like that one-go out and do some sport and you will forget about stupid isk loss. And for Mittani- Forget this game who cares about them. In few months i can expect  from some wow paladin to sue me in court because of ganking. It is same like in real life--20 years ago when we was fighting in school it was men's business, today you get social worker on your door when your son is involved in school fighting. I think i throw that stupid pc out from the window and go with my jaw English longbow for few weeks in to mountains. And i will now cancel my sub in Eve. My favorite game-NOT ANYMORE


  Olgark

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 300

4/04/12 2:23:57 AM#226

I said my bit on the Eve forums in reply to the Mittani's appology.


As for this article some people will always go over the top, its human nature as we are pack hunters. When one sees a weakness others will follow and widen the wound caused, with each attack getting more and more extreme.


  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 825

4/04/12 2:40:34 AM#227

after reading this thread over and stepping back I have to say I am SO glad EVE is doing great i really am. As it keeps the trash like Mittani and  like those defending Mittani over in EVE and away from other gamers.

 

keep up the good work CCP and please don't fold I would hate to see these people in the MMOs i play.

  Flute

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 432

4/04/12 2:42:04 AM#228
Originally posted by RefMinor
I disagree fundamentally with this article, using a public platform which was being broadcast over the internet to call on people to harrass someone who may have mental health issues with the stated aim of trying to get him to commit suicide, even if said in poor jest, is inexcusable and is in no way diminished by associated misreporting or the glee taken by his in game enemies. The writer of this article should be ashamed at having written this.

This is actually a critical point.

It is right that online media themselves are often guilty of the same sins they report, but is it also right that they could and did condemn a player for going to far.  Games need to stay inside the games, not spill over into the real world.

EVE is not the only game in which this has happened, by the way.  Same thing in Darkfall, just massively fewer players in that niche game to see it.  The very concept of trying to reach past the computer to cause real-world harm to your in-game enemies is simply so wrong ... and yet it is more common than those who play FFA PvP MMO games wish to admit.

 

-----

And ironically, this just remined me how much I actually miss EVE ... accountants in space is addictive.  In part because it has real drama.  But there must still be lines, and it is not right to cross them.

  Baitness

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/22/06
Posts: 153

4/04/12 3:51:09 AM#229

What Mittens did was wrong, nobody disagrees about that.  What people disagree about is HOW wrong he was.


 


He drunkenly gave the Pilot Name of somebody that claimed they were suicidal.  I say claimed because the circumstances are pretty important.  You are talking about a person who just got one pulled over on him, in Eve online where that happens constantly, talking to the person that got him and confiding in him that he is suicidal.  I cannot possibly think of a more farfetched situation than that.


 


For those that haven't played Eve, you need to realize that this is a place where lying and scamming are encouraged.  The chances that this person that Mittens called out was telling the truth are about as likely as the players claim that they actively manage all 22 of their accounts at the same time rather than botting.


 


Either way though, he made a mistake.  He apologized for it.  He resigned from the CSM voluntarily, before CCP decided anything.  People jumping at this as a sign of weakness trying to bring down the empire he sits atop are disgusting, and I am glad this article points out the incredible hypocrisy of any eve player trying to pull a holier-than-thou by denouncing mittens actions.  What he did in public in a drunken stupor is nothing compared to what thousands of eve players do every day hiding behind their characters.  The people hoping to use this as a way to try and strike back at the goons or delay further supercap balancing are not only pathetic, but failing miserably.  This entire stunt will only slightly delay the balancing, and a temporary ban of mittens isn't going to slow the goons in the slightest.


 


Finally, the people thinking there is some kind of law mittens could be affected by are so ignorant of both the laws and what transpired that it is maddening.  You think that somebody telling people to harass an online moniker in a video game through in game means without divulging any real life information is illegal?  More so you think it is illegal when it is not a child but a full grown adult man?  You think it is illegal when the supposed "victim" not only didn't hurt themself, but said that it didn't bother them in the slightest?  Further you think it is illegal in iceland?  I will not even continue down this path of absurdity as it is an insult to everyone reading.


  avalon1000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 730

4/04/12 3:54:19 AM#230

Any open world or semi open world PvP game allows bullies and other mentally unstable persons the ability to grief others. Mitten crossed the line when he gave the guys game name out in a public forum (as to griefing) and it cost him. I avoid open world PvP games like the plague. I would suggest that if you are going to play these games that you go into them with full knowledge that it attracts people that could make your gaming experience really miserable. Most of the people in these games are good people, but it only takes a few bad ones to give the game(s) bad publicity. Next time Mittens don't go into these panel discussions like a drunken fool.

  Mackeh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 170

4/04/12 5:24:38 AM#231

I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE.  Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4766

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/04/12 5:28:49 AM#232
Originally posted by avalon1000

Any open world or semi open world PvP game allows bullies and other mentally unstable persons the ability to grief others.

 

Funny how the pvp'er is the mentally unstable one, not the guy killing himself over a game...

  Malarkey

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/04
Posts: 9

4/04/12 5:41:47 AM#233

Excellent, carefully thought out and reasoned analysis of these events.


There are lessons here for all of us to take away and be mindful of.


Actions have consequences, in game life and real life.


  Flute

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 432

4/04/12 5:44:02 AM#234
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by avalon1000

Any open world or semi open world PvP game allows bullies and other mentally unstable persons the ability to grief others.

 

Funny how the pvp'er is the mentally unstable one, not the guy killing himself over a game...

You have to be unwell to intentionally, while playing a video game, try to drive another person to harm themselves.

The flip side, if you are too unwell to be able to work (etc), there is nothing wrong with playing a video game.

  Malarkey

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/04
Posts: 9

4/04/12 5:57:25 AM#235

Of course, there is another view to these events.


The Mittani is a self-publicist that seeks to gain notoriety and infamy by making the most inflammatory actions and pronouncements in the belief that he will thereby achieve the ultimate goal of becoming a gaming celebrity. His continued participation in the media storm is part of the deliberate cultivation of that "bad-boy" celebrity status and he revels in it. 


This is not the end of "Mittens", far from it. He has been elevated to near god-hood by the publicity and will continue to milk every drop of it for years to come.


A magnificent achievement, all things considered.


  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

4/04/12 6:12:36 AM#236
One thing I found out is, the culprit is a lawyer. No new paternal government laws need passing before he risks facing serious real life consequences.

I don't care for the Goons, I don't want them anywhere near any MMO I play. But I feel a little sorry for the guy. He might find out that one drunken comment really can mess up your whole life.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3580

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/04/12 8:20:50 AM#237
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by morlock9

Reading this article was like reading someone trolling.  I have to think the author might need to step out of his fictional worlds for some real world time, just as The Mittani should.

 

You have to draw a line somewhere, and what was said and done is not acceptable.  Period, end of story.  This was so unacceptable that the fact that this happened at all is a clear indication of deep disfunction in this person.

 

In my opinion it didn't go as far as it should have.  Hell, it should have been a 60 minutes feature.  The guy should have been permanently banned from the game, and criminal charges filed.

 

Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal or too much has been made of it really needs to take a step back themselves and reconsider.

 

In the wake of all this, this Mittani is trying to use his "legendary" status to threaten mmo news organizations now.  I don't believe his appology was genuine, and I think his status within this game world isn't the only thing now pointing to his disfunction.

 

...and by the way.  I know many people following this story who do not play Eve (like myself) and don't give a rat's ass who the Goons are.  I don't care what game you play...this has garnered interest across the community.  Acusations that this is some effort of Eve players is idiotic.

 

You say "a line has to draw a line somewhere", by whom? Indviduals for themselves? I'd quite agree. But all too many people seek to get government involved in these issues. They go on some Crusade or another to "right" the worlds "wrongs", using a system ruled for the most part, in most places, by self seeking sociopaths.  Anyone not familiar with that reality, is either naive, or hasn't been paying attention. 

Mittens went well over the top (as far as I'm concerned) with his drunken diatribe, but removal from the CSM should be the extent of any action taken by CCP.  Much more than that is simply appeasing certain hysterics. 

Later on you speak of this being on "60 minutes", and Mittens having "criminal charges filed". Why limit this to America? Perhaps this needs to be broadcast through out the world? Perhaps Mittens needs to be hauled before the International Court at the Hague?  

Or perhaps, some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that just because something is offensive, doesn't require the type of hysterical responses we've been seeing way too much of for the last few years?

How about this.... if we can't manage to draw the line ourselves you do realize there are many groups out there looking for crap like this to happen so they can step in and draw the line for us. If they draw the line then none of us are going to be happy. 

 

And yes Mittens went over the top and then tried to blame it on Alcohol when it backlashed on him. 

Groups only "step in" when they are allowed to... Thats one of the reasons that the US Founders insisted on having a well armed population.  We've come a LONG way from that ideal, but the principle remains valid non the less.

 I personally believe in self government. Each and every person is responsible for their own actions/inactions and the consequences that result. Thats why Mittens is *still* responsble, even those he was totally smashed drunk. But it should be looked at as only a mitigating circumstance(at best).  Alcohol does weird things to some peoples psychologies, and its up to them to know this, and not drink to excess. 

  vonryan123

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/08
Posts: 149

4/04/12 8:34:47 AM#238

Wheres the report button for this OP.......the guys an a-hole is it any big surprise he got slapped down a peg? Get over it, Matti had it coming for a long time and I'm frankly sad it wasnt worse.




 




  I dont hate him but I dont have to like him just the same.




 




P.S. the BS in this post should = FIRED......baitness you should get that brown stuff off your nose mate its not very becoming





 

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3580

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/04/12 8:35:41 AM#239
Originally posted by Mackeh

I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE.  Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.

In a word, NO. The Dev's are NOT responsible for the actions of the players.  No one is *forcing* anyone to play the game.  No one is *forcing* anyone to do anything.  Everyone involved IS responsible for their own actions.  It would be tragic if someone killed themselves over a game. But that simply means that the person involved had some SERIOUS software "issues" in the first place. If it wasn't an online game that triggered them, t would have been something else.  

As much of a CareBear as I tend to be, I'm the first to point out that EVE and all such are GAMES. They are only entertainment. Once they stop being that, that is when the problems start.  Gankers/griefers like the Goons, are simply demonstrating an element of human psychology,  They get their jollies by ruining others play experience. That being the case, I normally refuse to play games that allow or encourage that.  But lets place the blame where it needs to be. With each and every persons actions, and the consequences that result. 

  RefMinor

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

4/04/12 9:45:40 AM#240
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Mackeh

I can tell you now, it is ONLY a matter of time before some vunerable kid kills himself after being totally destroyed, humiliated and ruined in a game like EVE.  Any game where years of work can be destroyed in seconds is pushing enjoyment just a bit to far and the devs need to realise this before they have to spend the rest of their lives living with the knowledge that they were party to someones death.

In a word, NO. The Dev's are NOT responsible for the actions of the players.  No one is *forcing* anyone to play the game.  No one is *forcing* anyone to do anything.  Everyone involved IS responsible for their own actions.  It would be tragic if someone killed themselves over a game. But that simply means that the person involved had some SERIOUS software "issues" in the first place. If it wasn't an online game that triggered them, t would have been something else.  

As much of a CareBear as I tend to be, I'm the first to point out that EVE and all such are GAMES. They are only entertainment. Once they stop being that, that is when the problems start.  Gankers/griefers like the Goons, are simply demonstrating an element of human psychology,  They get their jollies by ruining others play experience. That being the case, I normally refuse to play games that allow or encourage that.  But lets place the blame where it needs to be. With each and every persons actions, and the consequences that result. 

 

I agree, whilst I condemn Alex Gianturco's actions, in game as the Mittani he is playing by the rules, even if he and the goons kills everyone in game repeatedly. If someone can't cope with the loss of their virtual items then they shouldn't play Eve. These are all games, like when Alex Gianturco blurred the line between RL and the game, the same is true of those who blame RL ills on a game. It is a game, even a carebear PvE cooperative MMO involves going out and committing wholesale virtual slaughter of the weak pixellated animals and NPCs, you can hardly say that is good if you blur the line between games and reality. Eve was not the problem here the problem is blurring the game and RL
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