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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » In WvW, siege weapons cost gold. Gems buyers have a WvW advantage

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606 posts found
  User Deleted
4/01/12 8:02:41 AM#561
Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by asianbboy101

Blizzard's Daiblo 3 has their RMT  

Funcom's TSW box+sub+cash shop

Tera is getting their cash shop

Planetside 2 will have cash shop 

GW1 had cash shop...that didn't hurt me in pvp.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but cash shops/rmt are here to stay and its the future. You, the vocal forum minority can't do a thing and thats a fact. So why not embrace the change and buy the gems.

Obama said I'm getting free health care..I'm still waiting for it as well my free house and food.

Diablo3 is not a MMO and I can play it like a singleplayer game. But I really think the RMAH is a terrible idea.

It would certainly make no sense to play real MMO:s like singleplayer games. Thats why I think being able to buy advantages for real money is a much bigger problem in MMOs. Other players are important in MMO:s... If there is no level playing field and others that have more money or want to spend more money are better it will not be possible to ignore.

And, yes, we can learn to live with it or we can decide not play any games that sell advantages for real money. I really dont care what other people do. If they think its fun and OK its really up to them. But I must make my own choice and play games I like.

If all MMO:s in the future will have advantage cash shops I will probably only play singleplayer games. I would have no problem paying a huge monthly fee for a good game. I can afford that. But I dont like the advantage cash shop business model. I will never support that with my money. And I will not embrace that.

You know, I get why people would immediately want to draw a line in the sand and object to a cash shop, especially one that sells perceived advantages.  But I think there's a bigger picture.

As far as I can tell, all MMOs are essentially P2W because of 3rd party gold sellers.  I think back to my days playing WoW.  People could use their gold to buy their way into raids to get armor tokens from guilds who had trivialized the content.  People as far as I can tell could use their gold to buy flasks to buff themselves in battlegrounds.

What ArenaNet is doing is legitimizing the cash for gold transaction.  To me this means three things.  First, that ArenaNet is the one to get the money for people buying gold legitimately instead of these 3rd parties.  Second, that players who want to buy gold are not going to be visiting sketchy websites and risking their account security doing so.  And third, that people who want to buy things which previously had been cash only (like character slots) can now purchase them with their excess gold.  These are all wins in my book.

The fact is that there are people who have tons of money (I like to say more money than brains) and are willing to spend it on games which otherwise have no subscription.  For every purist who will actually skip the game entirely, there's some guy willing to spend every month what the purist would pay only once.  It's just good business to offer these people things to spend money on while not alienating the average player. 

ArenaNet hasn't gone completely off the deep end.  As I posted earlier, I found this article which talks about asking "Is It Evil?" to everything they sell in the cash shop.  Yes, ArenaNet is selling advantages, but they're really minor things.  And in order for the reverse cash shop transaction to work (convert gold to gems to buy account services) there needs to be things that people want to obtain gold for.

ArenaNet has said they'll never sell anything that gives anyone an unfair advantage, and they'll never sell anything that can't be obtained in a reasonable amount of time.  They've also made it so that the one part of the game that is a pure competition (structured PVP) is completely unaffected by anything in the cash shop.

If people want to vote with their wallet and object to any kind of advantage at all, then by all means it's their prerogative.  But let's at least be realistic about what is being offered by ArenaNet.  I've seen people mention that in other true P2W games, a person who uses the shop could kill an entire 25 person raid worth of people who didn't.  GW2 isn't even remotely close to that.  It's allowing people to use money to save a little time as opposed to simply playing for free, that's it.  95% of people won't take advantage of it, and I kind of doubt you'd even be able to tell who are the 5% who will.

  User Deleted
4/01/12 9:13:08 AM#562
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 


Originally posted by heartless


Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 



Originally posted by heartless




Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 






Originally posted by heartless







Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 









Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in at 9:28m. Originally posted by heartless

this video










 
It's Beta








That works both ways.






 
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them.
I didn't make any claim
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
 




We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.



 
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release.
Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.

What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests.



I didn't make an assumption, the stuff is currently in the game. You're basing your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the game and yet dismiss my proof that the stuff is not worth the effort with "it's beta." A bit of a double standard there, won't you agree?
As far as the NDA goes, the game is still very much in closed beta without even a release date set. The game may take 6 more months to finish. How many developers do you know that drop the NDA while the game is still in development? If anything this whole post is a perfect example of why the NDA is still in place.



Nope! I don't
You said
"Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining"
Meaning: All clear, nothing to worry about!
I said
"It's beta"
Meaning, we won't know until release if that's really what will be in there.

 

If you wish to continue twisting that, go for it, I said it pretty plainly. I don't think anyone who is unbiased would be as confused as you seem to be, but that's understandable seeing as you tripped your self up in your own words.

You sounded the "All Clear" I corrected that with a "Not so fast"

If only you and a few others have followed that same line of reasoning, we could've avoided this whole topic altogether.

What I would like to know is, exactly what is this so called "same line of reasoning" that I should have followed that allows you to make misinfored claims(remember, YOU made a statement, NOT me) and put the responsibility of them on other people.

BTW, the question I asked.......It's rethorical. You made an incorrect statement, not me. There IS no line of logic here, just you trying to twist your way out of your own words. I just asked the question because I think it will be interesting to see how such a simple mistake that you made is going to get all complicated and twisted to include unrelated details as to confuse people. And that what you say will in no way answer the specific question...did you make the premature statement or not?

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/01/12 10:26:11 AM#563
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 


Originally posted by heartless


Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 



Originally posted by heartless




Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 






Originally posted by heartless







Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 









Found a bit of info on Mystic chests. Since that seems to be the most pressing issue to some. Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining. The info can be found in at 9:28m. Originally posted by heartless this video









  It's Beta







That works both ways.






 
You are the one who said what is/isn't in them.
I didn't make any claim
Let's just assume this isn't ANet and is some other unscrupulous developer like say NCSoft.
If it was their intent to put something that might kick up a shitstorm in there, do you really think it would be in ther during beta?
 




We can assume that ANet is EA or Sony or Activision or any other unscrupulous developer out there. But the fact of the matter is that they are not and whatever unsavory things other developers do, has nothing to do with ANet or GW2.



 
But the point was that you made an assumption that because today, there is nothing valuable in those chests, then there will be nothing valuable after release.
Look, I am not betting the farm that those chests will be deal breakers, personally, I see them containing all kinds of consumables. And that doesn't bother me.

What I am saying is even if ANet is staying on the up and up, they are still keeping the true contents of that shop under NDA and that means the most benign item will be in those chests.



I didn't make an assumption, the stuff is currently in the game. You're basing your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the game and yet dismiss my proof that the stuff is not worth the effort with "it's beta." A bit of a double standard there, won't you agree?
As far as the NDA goes, the game is still very much in closed beta without even a release date set. The game may take 6 more months to finish. How many developers do you know that drop the NDA while the game is still in development? If anything this whole post is a perfect example of why the NDA is still in place.



Nope! I don't
You said
"Apprently they contain a random tool, a random buff or a random tonic. No weapons, no armor, no influence, no karma and no gold. Hardly an advantage and hardly a cause for whining"
Meaning: All clear, nothing to worry about!
I said
"It's beta"
Meaning, we won't know until release if that's really what will be in there.

 

If you wish to continue twisting that, go for it, I said it pretty plainly. I don't think anyone who is unbiased would be as confused as you seem to be, but that's understandable seeing as you tripped your self up in your own words.

You sounded the "All Clear" I corrected that with a "Not so fast"

If only you and a few others have followed that same line of reasoning, we could've avoided this whole topic altogether.

What I would like to know is, exactly what is this so called "same line of reasoning" that I should have followed that allows you to make misinfored claims(remember, YOU made a statement, NOT me) and put the responsibility of them on other people.

BTW, the question I asked.......It's rethorical. You made an incorrect statement, not me. There IS no line of logic here, just you trying to twist your way out of your own words. I just asked the question because I think it will be interesting to see how such a simple mistake that you made is going to get all complicated and twisted to include unrelated details as to confuse people. And that what you say will in no way answer the specific question...did you make the premature statement or not?

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

4/01/12 10:41:29 AM#564
Originally posted by heartless
...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

  User Deleted
4/01/12 10:45:19 AM#565
Originally posted by heartless
 

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contant "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

But see, that's just it....I never established a position. "It's Beta" challenged the one YOU made. There was no frenzy, no implications of advantages not even referencing the cash shop.. The shop never came into play here. You continue to put words in my mouth and then tell me they are wrong. When it boils down. It is simply this...and here we go again. 

 

You said there is nothing in the chests to worry about. (see a cash shop reference yet? I don't)

I said "It's beta" (Still don't see a cash shop reference here)

You established a position not me. I simply challenged your claim without making one of my own....

 

But by all means please tell me how you can get anything other than "It's beta" from "It's beta"

it's 2 words I said and you have come back repeatedly and made them mean whatever your have wanted them to mean to serve the purposes of this arguemtn.

It simply boils down to the fact that you spread misinformation about what will not be in those chests, and are trying desparately to justify yourself at any cost by bringing the cash shop into this. I never brought up the cash shop with "It's beta"

Edit:

And I am still trying to figure out how you were able to deduce my "reasoning" behind "It's Beta"

Again, it's 2 words. There is no "reasoning here" it's a simple statement. It doesn't get any bigger than "It's Beta"

 

Let's take this right back to square one......again.

You sounded the all clear. I said not so fast.

 

Lets twist it around agan...this is getting fun.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/01/12 10:52:38 AM#566
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by heartless
...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

4/01/12 10:53:56 AM#567
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless
 

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contant "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

But see, that's just it....I never established a position. "It's Beta" challenged the one YOU made. There was no frenzy, no implications of advantages not even referencing the cash shop.. The shop never came into play here. You continue to put words in my mouth and then tell me they are wrong. When it boils down. It is simply this...and here we go again. 

 

You said there is nothing in the chests to worry about. (see a cash shop reference yet? I don't)

I said "It's beta" (Still don't see a cash shop reference here)

You established a position not me. I simply challenged your claim without making one of my own....

 

But by all means please tell me how you can get anything other than "It's beta" from "It's beta"

it's 2 words I said and you have come back repeatedly and made them mean whatever your have wanted them to mean to serve the purposes of this arguemtn.

It simply boils down to the fact that you spread misinformation about what will not be in those chests, and are trying desparately to justify yourself at any cost by bringing the cash shop into this. I never brought up the cash shop with "It's beta"

Edit:

And I am still trying to figure out how you were able to deduce my "reasoning" behind "It's Beta"

Again, it's 2 words. There is no "reasoning here" it's a simple statement. It doesn't get any bigger than "It's Beta"

I was refering to your previous posts, not that particular post.

  User Deleted
4/01/12 10:56:00 AM#568
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by heartless
 

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contant "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

But see, that's just it....I never established a position. "It's Beta" challenged the one YOU made. There was no frenzy, no implications of advantages not even referencing the cash shop.. The shop never came into play here. You continue to put words in my mouth and then tell me they are wrong. When it boils down. It is simply this...and here we go again. 

 

You said there is nothing in the chests to worry about. (see a cash shop reference yet? I don't)

I said "It's beta" (Still don't see a cash shop reference here)

You established a position not me. I simply challenged your claim without making one of my own....

 

But by all means please tell me how you can get anything other than "It's beta" from "It's beta"

it's 2 words I said and you have come back repeatedly and made them mean whatever your have wanted them to mean to serve the purposes of this arguemtn.

It simply boils down to the fact that you spread misinformation about what will not be in those chests, and are trying desparately to justify yourself at any cost by bringing the cash shop into this. I never brought up the cash shop with "It's beta"

Edit:

And I am still trying to figure out how you were able to deduce my "reasoning" behind "It's Beta"

Again, it's 2 words. There is no "reasoning here" it's a simple statement. It doesn't get any bigger than "It's Beta"

I was refering to your previous posts, not that particular post.

So what does that have to do with you sounding the all clear and me saying not so fast?

 

EDIT:

Here is what i suggest. Since we have both taken this arguemtent way beyond the chest issue and gone into a personal arguement of "You said, no you said"

Let's just agree to disagree and drop it? Huh?  Truce?

  User Deleted
4/01/12 10:57:24 AM#569
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by heartless
...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

Now tha tsuch a basic arguemnt has been so severly forked, back to t eh real issue.

I agree, the fact that the CS is still under NDA speaks very loudly.

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

4/01/12 11:46:49 AM#570
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by heartless
...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

You're right that there's an NDA still. It's likely to prevent the earlier versions of the beta cash shop from upsetting too many people. Considering what's been leaked, which I'm certain is still not the entire picture of what's being sold, I can see why ANet is hesitant about letting the world see everything in the first round of the beta cash shop.

As for feedback, unfortunately you're right, it's limited to beta testers right now. But hopefully there are enough outspoken and level headed beta testers who are willing to speak up about it and provide feedback to ANet.

  User Deleted
4/01/12 12:06:34 PM#571

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

  User Deleted
4/01/12 12:14:57 PM#572
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by heartless
...

I'm talking about your "it's beta" reasoning, which allows you to casually dismiss any proof that undermines your position. If you, and a number of others, would've just said "it's beta" before you began working yourself into a frenzy over these suposed advantages it the cash shop, this topic wouldn't have existed.

The statement I made was not "incorrect." The mystic chests do contain "random tools or random buffs or random tonics." Whether or not that will change is unknown but the fact is that as it is now, that is what they contain. I think it's pretty relevent to the discussion since you based your whole anti-cash shop argument on the stuff that is currently in the cash shop, stuff that may also change because, you know, "it's beta."

Actually, the fact that the game is still in beta is all the more reason to raise complaints about such items being available in the cash shop. If no one complains and just tolerates it or expects it to change without saying anything, then ANet will in all likelihood leave those things in for the final release of the game... because advantage based cash-shop items tend to sell a hell of a lot better than vanity or convenience items.

ANet isn't stupid, they know full well what crosses the line into P2W. They're intentionally trying to push the boundries of what's acceptable to see what they can get away with, and then going back and removing the items that receive the most negative reaction from gamers in order to strike a balance. Of course, they need feedback in order to 'get it right', so in my opinion complaints about the beta cash shop are entirely relevant.

The cash shop is still under the NDA. If they wanted our feedback at this time, they would've dropped the NDA, at least for the press. Personally, I think it's a bit too early to worry about what is and what isn't in the cash shop as it's obviously not even close to being finished. The fact is that both sides of the debate have to rely on scraps of leaked information and hearsay to base their arguments and it's possible that the stuff we're worrying about is not even there anymore... Or maybe there is more stuff to worry about.

As far as feedback goes, if providing feedback was the intent, one that I wholeheartedly support, it would be better to post it on the forums that devs actually visit like guildwars2guru.com.

You're right that there's an NDA still. It's likely to prevent the earlier versions of the beta cash shop from upsetting too many people. Considering what's been leaked, which I'm certain is still not the entire picture of what's being sold, I can see why ANet is hesitant about letting the world see everything in the first round of the beta cash shop.

As for feedback, unfortunately you're right, it's limited to beta testers right now. But hopefully there are enough outspoken and level headed beta testers who are willing to speak up about it and provide feedback to ANet.

I would even believe that they are careful with what items will eventually show up knowing it's probably the single hottest topic they face.

Meaning, even the beta testers don't know. And ultimately, it's going to be after release that all the items are shown.

Those items that were leaked were hardly enough to make up a complete shop. ANet even said it they were beta testing items.

It's not like they are going to beta test prices. 

What they were testing was the viability of items that had questionable use. 

I am sure there will be many many more items in that shop. What they are, can only be answered in time.

  dontadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1048

4/01/12 12:20:41 PM#573
Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Yeah, I"ve given up.  I'm not even sure why these people want to buy GW2. If you don't trust GW's word that they've demphasized items, gold and loot then why have u been following the game for 5 years.  

  User Deleted
4/01/12 12:23:16 PM#574
Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15601

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/01/12 12:26:59 PM#575
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

I think it says a lot when MIkeB has to jump in to lecture certain fans, I've never seen that before here..

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  User Deleted
4/01/12 12:35:53 PM#576
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

I think it says a lot when MIkeB has to jump in to lecture certain fans, I've never seen that before here..

 

I am repeating the arguments from these boards for those calling to trust Anet without question.

Sorry, I have also been following GW2 with high excitement for years. I too have been wanting to play it. But in a game that is skill based PVP centered, these are serious alarms.

The reality is, it's not a cosmetic only shop, and there is at least a small advantage to be bought ingame. Dismiss it how you will, but other threads have show it. And while it's not game breaking, it's still there.

I am called a troll because the subject I bring up is unpopular. Sorry, don't know wha to tell you. It's important to me.

The irony in all this is the poster who made the reference to the shortbuss, was in fact the one who did the trolling.

Heh!

  st4t1ck

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 583

4/01/12 12:39:42 PM#577
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

  User Deleted
4/01/12 12:42:17 PM#578
Originally posted by st4t1ck
 

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

 It most certainly is NOT similar. And how do you define "similar" It's so subjective.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15601

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/01/12 12:44:09 PM#579
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by sammyeli

Too many people in this thread ride the shortbus, Please just let them ride it, the rest of you start checking post history before you get trolled.

Moral of the story:

Anyone who dares to question ANet,  is a retarded troll!

Even though the arguement has changed from

The cash shop will sell cosmetics only

to

The cash shop will sell cosmetics and items of convienience only

to

The cash shop will not sell advantage

to

Well, ok there is some advantage but its really minor and can be easily dismissed.

I mean Can't you guys see it? There is no cause for concern here!

I think it says a lot when MIkeB has to jump in to lecture certain fans, I've never seen that before here..

 

I am repeating the arguments from these boards for those calling to trust Anet without question.

Sorry, I have also been following GW2 with high excitement for years. I too have been wanting to play it. But in a game that is skill based PVP centered, these are serious alarms.

The reality is, it's not a cosmetic only shop, and there is at least a small advantage to be bought ingame. Dismiss it how you will, but other threads have show it. And while it's not game breaking, it's still there.

I am called a troll because the subject I bring up is unpopular. Sorry, don't know wha to tell you. It's important to me.

The irony in all this is the poster who made the reference to the shortbuss, was in fact the one who did the trolling.

Heh!

Yeah I got that heh, I was only reinforcing the point you were making :P.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  st4t1ck

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 583

4/01/12 12:48:33 PM#580
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by st4t1ck
 

The very first mention of the cash shop says it will be similar to guild wars 1. you can spin all the other words that was said as you like, but it is similar to guild wars 1.

the main new part being the gem-gold exchange

 It most certainly is NOT similar. And how do you define "similar" It's so subjective.

whats not similar about it, most of the things ive seen people upet about outisde of the gem-gold exchange are in gw1 and truly belive that its not the cash shop that people have a problem with. but being able to exchange gems for gold

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