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Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Stationary bosses are stationary

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138 posts found
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

3/30/12 7:14:15 AM#101
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 

 

Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?

 

Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 

 

If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 

Big difference though Bobby D.

 

WoW world bosses could move, but didn't once the tank established aggro. With aggro being more dynamic in GW2 you need to plant those mega-bosses in place, otherwise they'll be running all over the place and nearly impossible to get. When you consider the fights against them include mechanics such as turrets et.al. you have another reason to keep them in place, the fight mechanics. WoW world bosses were simply tank and spank, it didn't matter where you tanks and where you spanked. Tequatl, however, has the bone walls he casts, needs to be in line with the Asuran turrets, etc.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  MikkelB

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/23/06
Posts: 240

3/30/12 7:38:58 AM#102



Originally posted by RobertDinh
Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 
 
Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?
 
Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 
 
If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 


Right, so WoW had some world bosses that moved around...a bit...To which bosses do you refer? From what I've seen in the Guild Wars 2 video's, some bosses do move around. Like the Oakheart one. That was a champion. Perhaps not a Raid boss level one, but still not easy to kill. The real huge bosses in Guild Wars 2 don't need to move around. To use the Shatterer as an example, if he flies away, do you move the whole siege camp too? All the catapults, ballista's? All the events in the neighbourhood?
About you statement that ArenaNet stated that it was because of the limitation of the engine they use, where did you get that information from? If you mean the post below:

Originally posted by RobertDinh
 
Long ago i called anet out on this, they said the technology of their game engine limited their large sized bosses from being able to move around.
 
I said that wasn't very innovative or trying to break the mold, for one of the key elements to PvE (the big boss encounter) they said to watch videos and tell them they are innovative, I said they weren't being innovative and they were settling for a lower standard, they said watch the videos and praise their game, I said no, then they said "darn it this one isn't a fanboi".

Well, that's not sufficient. If you want to bash the game, try harder, these are childish attempts.
 

  RobertDinh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 695

3/30/12 12:16:40 PM#103
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 

 

Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?

 

Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 

 

If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 

Big difference though Bobby D.

 

WoW world bosses could move, but didn't once the tank established aggro. With aggro being more dynamic in GW2 you need to plant those mega-bosses in place, otherwise they'll be running all over the place and nearly impossible to get. When you consider the fights against them include mechanics such as turrets et.al. you have another reason to keep them in place, the fight mechanics. WoW world bosses were simply tank and spank, it didn't matter where you tanks and where you spanked. Tequatl, however, has the bone walls he casts, needs to be in line with the Asuran turrets, etc.

Excuse after excuse after excuse with you people....

 

Anet has ALREADY stated it is because of a limitation with their engine, it is not because of gameplay mechanics, aggro differences, or anything of that sort. 

 

Originally posted by MikkelB

 



Originally posted by RobertDinh
Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 
 
Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?
 
Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 
 
If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 



Right, so WoW had some world bosses that moved around...a bit...To which bosses do you refer? From what I've seen in the Guild Wars 2 video's, some bosses do move around. Like the Oakheart one. That was a champion. Perhaps not a Raid boss level one, but still not easy to kill. The real huge bosses in Guild Wars 2 don't need to move around. To use the Shatterer as an example, if he flies away, do you move the whole siege camp too? All the catapults, ballista's? All the events in the neighbourhood?
About you statement that ArenaNet stated that it was because of the limitation of the engine they use, where did you get that information from? If you mean the post below:


Originally posted by RobertDinh
 
Long ago i called anet out on this, they said the technology of their game engine limited their large sized bosses from being able to move around.
 
I said that wasn't very innovative or trying to break the mold, for one of the key elements to PvE (the big boss encounter) they said to watch videos and tell them they are innovative, I said they weren't being innovative and they were settling for a lower standard, they said watch the videos and praise their game, I said no, then they said "darn it this one isn't a fanboi".

 

Well, that's not sufficient. If you want to bash the game, try harder, these are childish attempts.
 

While you can fight the shatterer he is stationary, very dull, very low standard, not very innovative at all.

  asianbboy101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 93

3/30/12 2:33:24 PM#104

In one of the gamebreaker interview with A-Net dev, Mr.Sharp as well as other devs said that the shatterer and tequatl are much tougher in game than was shown in gaming conventions. They didn't show all the mechanics and said the bosses will be harder.

  bazak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 290

3/30/12 3:52:33 PM#105
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 

 

Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?

 

Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 

 

If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 

Big difference though Bobby D.

 

WoW world bosses could move, but didn't once the tank established aggro. With aggro being more dynamic in GW2 you need to plant those mega-bosses in place, otherwise they'll be running all over the place and nearly impossible to get. When you consider the fights against them include mechanics such as turrets et.al. you have another reason to keep them in place, the fight mechanics. WoW world bosses were simply tank and spank, it didn't matter where you tanks and where you spanked. Tequatl, however, has the bone walls he casts, needs to be in line with the Asuran turrets, etc.

Excuse after excuse after excuse with you people....

 

Anet has ALREADY stated it is because of a limitation with their engine, it is not because of gameplay mechanics, aggro differences, or anything of that sort. 

 

Originally posted by MikkelB

 



Originally posted by RobertDinh
Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 
 
Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?
 
Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 
 
If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 



Right, so WoW had some world bosses that moved around...a bit...To which bosses do you refer? From what I've seen in the Guild Wars 2 video's, some bosses do move around. Like the Oakheart one. That was a champion. Perhaps not a Raid boss level one, but still not easy to kill. The real huge bosses in Guild Wars 2 don't need to move around. To use the Shatterer as an example, if he flies away, do you move the whole siege camp too? All the catapults, ballista's? All the events in the neighbourhood?
About you statement that ArenaNet stated that it was because of the limitation of the engine they use, where did you get that information from? If you mean the post below:


Originally posted by RobertDinh
 
Long ago i called anet out on this, they said the technology of their game engine limited their large sized bosses from being able to move around.
 
I said that wasn't very innovative or trying to break the mold, for one of the key elements to PvE (the big boss encounter) they said to watch videos and tell them they are innovative, I said they weren't being innovative and they were settling for a lower standard, they said watch the videos and praise their game, I said no, then they said "darn it this one isn't a fanboi".

 

Well, that's not sufficient. If you want to bash the game, try harder, these are childish attempts.
 

While you can fight the shatterer he is stationary, very dull, very low standard, not very innovative at all.


ok... bravo Mr Dihn, bravo indeed. you have found a flaw in their engine that limits them because they do not have the technology to do this, every game has flaws enjoy it for what it is and the realistic illusion it creates or not.

another thing im curious about is... well who really wants to chase around a giant boss (who can be on the other side of that mini mountain/hill with a single jump taking a few seconds.) it really just isnt pheasable to be chasing around a giant boss to me.

dead serious question here who wants to do that? (only pheasable way to fight something that large while it moves around is to be in one of those airships which they could possibly be doing for the fight against the elder dragon but thats a wait and see thing). so i dont see how its a low standard... and not innovative? fine ill give you the fact that he is standing still isnt innovative. that doesnt mean other parts of the fight arent though.

 

but again i personaly just cant see how it would be enjoyable taking 10 min to get to the other side of the map to fight a giant boss that just a second ago was right in front of me and will probably have regenerated significant health...

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

3/30/12 3:59:05 PM#106
Originally posted by bazak
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 

 

Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?

 

Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 

 

If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 

Big difference though Bobby D.

 

WoW world bosses could move, but didn't once the tank established aggro. With aggro being more dynamic in GW2 you need to plant those mega-bosses in place, otherwise they'll be running all over the place and nearly impossible to get. When you consider the fights against them include mechanics such as turrets et.al. you have another reason to keep them in place, the fight mechanics. WoW world bosses were simply tank and spank, it didn't matter where you tanks and where you spanked. Tequatl, however, has the bone walls he casts, needs to be in line with the Asuran turrets, etc.

Excuse after excuse after excuse with you people....

 

Anet has ALREADY stated it is because of a limitation with their engine, it is not because of gameplay mechanics, aggro differences, or anything of that sort. 

 

Originally posted by MikkelB

 



Originally posted by RobertDinh
Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 
 
Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?
 
Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 
 
If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 



Right, so WoW had some world bosses that moved around...a bit...To which bosses do you refer? From what I've seen in the Guild Wars 2 video's, some bosses do move around. Like the Oakheart one. That was a champion. Perhaps not a Raid boss level one, but still not easy to kill. The real huge bosses in Guild Wars 2 don't need to move around. To use the Shatterer as an example, if he flies away, do you move the whole siege camp too? All the catapults, ballista's? All the events in the neighbourhood?
About you statement that ArenaNet stated that it was because of the limitation of the engine they use, where did you get that information from? If you mean the post below:


Originally posted by RobertDinh
 
Long ago i called anet out on this, they said the technology of their game engine limited their large sized bosses from being able to move around.
 
I said that wasn't very innovative or trying to break the mold, for one of the key elements to PvE (the big boss encounter) they said to watch videos and tell them they are innovative, I said they weren't being innovative and they were settling for a lower standard, they said watch the videos and praise their game, I said no, then they said "darn it this one isn't a fanboi".

 

Well, that's not sufficient. If you want to bash the game, try harder, these are childish attempts.
 

While you can fight the shatterer he is stationary, very dull, very low standard, not very innovative at all.


ok... bravo Mr Dihn, bravo indeed. you have found a flaw in their engine that limits them because they do not have the technology to do this, every game has flaws enjoy it for what it is and the realistic illusion it creates or not.

another thing im curious about is... well who really wants to chase around a giant boss (who can be on the other side of that mini mountain/hill with a single jump taking a few seconds.) it really just isnt pheasable to be chasing around a giant boss to me.

dead serious question here who wants to do that? (only pheasable way to fight something that large while it moves around is to be in one of those airships which they could possibly be doing for the fight against the elder dragon but thats a wait and see thing). so i dont see how its a low standard... and not innovative? fine ill give you the fact that he is standing still isnt innovative. that doesnt mean other parts of the fight arent though.

 

but again i personaly just cant see how it would be enjoyable taking 10 min to get to the other side of the map to fight a giant boss that just a second ago was right in front of me and will probably have regenerated significant health...

Excellent points, nobody has talked about what happens if you get what your asking for.

This would mean, you could no longer fight, flying creatures because they would just fly away, swimming creatures, just about anything with 4 legs...ect..ect

Realism is good and all, I love immersion as much as the next gamer, but lets be real here.  (no pun intended) (ok maybe a little)

  bazak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 290

3/30/12 4:26:01 PM#107
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by bazak
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 

 

Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?

 

Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 

 

If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 

Big difference though Bobby D.

 

WoW world bosses could move, but didn't once the tank established aggro. With aggro being more dynamic in GW2 you need to plant those mega-bosses in place, otherwise they'll be running all over the place and nearly impossible to get. When you consider the fights against them include mechanics such as turrets et.al. you have another reason to keep them in place, the fight mechanics. WoW world bosses were simply tank and spank, it didn't matter where you tanks and where you spanked. Tequatl, however, has the bone walls he casts, needs to be in line with the Asuran turrets, etc.

Excuse after excuse after excuse with you people....

 

Anet has ALREADY stated it is because of a limitation with their engine, it is not because of gameplay mechanics, aggro differences, or anything of that sort. 

 

Originally posted by MikkelB

 



Originally posted by RobertDinh
Just wanted to add some clarification... WoW had world bosses before too, and those bosses did move. 
 
Also for those of you who are trying to argue that it is a good thing that all the big bosses in gw2 can't move... goggles much?
 
Anet has already stated it is a limitation of the engine they use, not some intuitive design for the players. 
 
If any of you don't think it is corny that some giant powerful boss sits there and doesn't move at all, well then... gw2 has catered to you perfectly, and gaming has gotten even worse. 



Right, so WoW had some world bosses that moved around...a bit...To which bosses do you refer? From what I've seen in the Guild Wars 2 video's, some bosses do move around. Like the Oakheart one. That was a champion. Perhaps not a Raid boss level one, but still not easy to kill. The real huge bosses in Guild Wars 2 don't need to move around. To use the Shatterer as an example, if he flies away, do you move the whole siege camp too? All the catapults, ballista's? All the events in the neighbourhood?
About you statement that ArenaNet stated that it was because of the limitation of the engine they use, where did you get that information from? If you mean the post below:


Originally posted by RobertDinh
 
Long ago i called anet out on this, they said the technology of their game engine limited their large sized bosses from being able to move around.
 
I said that wasn't very innovative or trying to break the mold, for one of the key elements to PvE (the big boss encounter) they said to watch videos and tell them they are innovative, I said they weren't being innovative and they were settling for a lower standard, they said watch the videos and praise their game, I said no, then they said "darn it this one isn't a fanboi".

 

Well, that's not sufficient. If you want to bash the game, try harder, these are childish attempts.
 

While you can fight the shatterer he is stationary, very dull, very low standard, not very innovative at all.


ok... bravo Mr Dihn, bravo indeed. you have found a flaw in their engine that limits them because they do not have the technology to do this, every game has flaws enjoy it for what it is and the realistic illusion it creates or not.

another thing im curious about is... well who really wants to chase around a giant boss (who can be on the other side of that mini mountain/hill with a single jump taking a few seconds.) it really just isnt pheasable to be chasing around a giant boss to me.

dead serious question here who wants to do that? (only pheasable way to fight something that large while it moves around is to be in one of those airships which they could possibly be doing for the fight against the elder dragon but thats a wait and see thing). so i dont see how its a low standard... and not innovative? fine ill give you the fact that he is standing still isnt innovative. that doesnt mean other parts of the fight arent though.

 

but again i personaly just cant see how it would be enjoyable taking 10 min to get to the other side of the map to fight a giant boss that just a second ago was right in front of me and will probably have regenerated significant health...

Excellent points, nobody has talked about what happens if you get what your asking for.

This would mean, you could no longer fight, flying creatures because they would just fly away, swimming creatures, just about anything with 4 legs...ect..ect

Realism is good and all, I love immersion as much as the next gamer, but lets be real here.  (no pun intended) (ok maybe a little)


exactly. well actualy i forget exactly how cuz i dont really feel like getting in a long drawn out logic loop fight with dinh, but he always counters with i think its called a straw man, when things like this are brought up or ignores it. or changes the argument topic slightly. etc anyways i agree with you and lol.

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

3/30/12 4:37:42 PM#108

Sorry, but I find those arguments pretty weak. I'd only have to refer to EQ where you had giants 10-15 times larger than the players where there were no problems with them moving around and chasing players without them making 1 mile steps. If EQ 10 years ago can handle large boss monsters, walking and flying ones, move around and players being entertained fighting them, having large boss monsters move around in current MMO's like GW2 and fight players should be a non-issue as well.

 

I'd use other arguments instead, like:

- those boss monsters are exceptionally large, larger than boss monsters in other MMO's (just compare boss dragons in GW2 and WoW). I can see how this could have an influence on the decision to move them around much or only slightly

- who says that all boss mobs in GW2 are stationary, and not just the exceptionally large, mega ones? There were several mentioned in dungeons that chased players around for some distance.

 

 

  RobertDinh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 695

3/30/12 4:39:11 PM#109

There's a large gap between bosses flying away and begging for complete realism, and the boring and static fights of a boss that doesn't move at all from a spot. 

  Ankur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/12
Posts: 340

3/30/12 4:41:45 PM#110
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Excellent points, nobody has talked about what happens if you get what your asking for.

This would mean, you could no longer fight, flying creatures because they would just fly away, swimming creatures, just about anything with 4 legs...ect..ect

Realism is good and all, I love immersion as much as the next gamer, but lets be real here.  (no pun intended) (ok maybe a little)

I don't buy that for a minute. What is the fun in hitting a boss like a pinata till it drops candies? a flying creature can take a short flight, ranged classes can still do ranged dps, a swimming crature can take a dive for few seconds and resurface at un predictable spot..All these things add to fun and excitememnt and make fights more dynamic. You guys make it sound as if it is too much hassle for players to move around.

You are just making excuses nothing more.

  bazak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 290

3/30/12 4:48:48 PM#111
Originally posted by cutthecrap

Sorry, but I find those arguments pretty weak. I'd only have to refer to EQ where you had giants 10-15 times larger than the players where there were no problems with them moving around and chasing players without them making 1 mile steps. If EQ 10 years ago can handle large boss monsters, walking and flying ones, move around and players being entertained fighting them, having large boss monsters move around in current MMO's like GW2 and fight players should be a non-issue as well.

 

I'd use other arguments instead, like:

- those boss monsters are exceptionally large, larger than boss monsters in other MMO's (just compare boss dragons in GW2 and WoW). I can see how this could have an influence on the decision to move them around much or only slightly

- who says that all boss mobs in GW2 are stationary, and not just the exceptionally large, mega ones? There were several mentioned in dungeons that chased players around for some distance.

 

 

question about that since i never played EQ, how detailed were the bosses? and how large compared to the shatterer? personaly i only want them moving around so much at that size because the larger they are the more unrealistic their movements become. they just stop looking right, untill the tech catches up at least and computers can run some sort of realistic physics foot placement system that determins how to make each step look and contact with the ground i personaly dont want them moving around like that,

 

it really just depends on how bad/ good it looks otherwise i would rather have preprogramed movements on a static boss. (personal opinion) or maybe ill put it like this i want the movements and such to be on par with the actual graphics of the game and movements for something that large in a game of EQ's time are not on par with the graphics of GW2 (to me).

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1083

3/30/12 4:52:05 PM#112
Originally posted by RobertDinh

There's a large gap between bosses flying away and begging for complete realism, and the boring and static fights of a boss that doesn't move at all from a spot. 

You have won RobertDinh .675 negative post ,I'm not going to play GW2 ....or on the brightside in  the amount of time you've spent on these forms I've made 5k real money so if I decide to play I  can P2W

  bazak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 290

3/30/12 4:52:25 PM#113
Originally posted by Ankur
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Excellent points, nobody has talked about what happens if you get what your asking for.

This would mean, you could no longer fight, flying creatures because they would just fly away, swimming creatures, just about anything with 4 legs...ect..ect

Realism is good and all, I love immersion as much as the next gamer, but lets be real here.  (no pun intended) (ok maybe a little)

I don't buy that for a minute. What is the fun in hitting a boss like a pinata till it drops candies? a flying creature can take a short flight, ranged classes can still do ranged dps, a swimming crature can take a dive for few seconds and resurface at un predictable spot..All these things add to fun and excitememnt and make fights more dynamic. You guys make it sound as if it is too much hassle for players to move around.

You are just making excuses nothing more.

were talking about creatures the size of the shatterer (not the smaller but still larger than people bosses of which a lot do move if not all). a short flight (that would be short based on the shatterers size) would be a pretty far ways to walk. like say the other side of a small city...

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

3/30/12 5:05:07 PM#114
Originally posted by bazak
Originally posted by cutthecrap

Sorry, but I find those arguments pretty weak. I'd only have to refer to EQ where you had giants 10-15 times larger than the players where there were no problems with them moving around and chasing players without them making 1 mile steps. If EQ 10 years ago can handle large boss monsters, walking and flying ones, move around and players being entertained fighting them, having large boss monsters move around in current MMO's like GW2 and fight players should be a non-issue as well.

 

I'd use other arguments instead, like:

- those boss monsters are exceptionally large, larger than boss monsters in other MMO's (just compare boss dragons in GW2 and WoW). I can see how this could have an influence on the decision to move them around much or only slightly

- who says that all boss mobs in GW2 are stationary, and not just the exceptionally large, mega ones? There were several mentioned in dungeons that chased players around for some distance.

 

 

question about that since i never played EQ, how detailed were the bosses? and how large compared to the shatterer? personaly i only want them moving around so much at that size because the larger they are the more unrealistic their movements become. they just stop looking right, untill the tech catches up at least and computers can run some sort of realistic physics foot placement system that determins how to make each step look and contact with the ground i personaly dont want them moving around like that,

 

it really just depends on how bad/ good it looks otherwise i would rather have preprogramed movements on a static boss. (personal opinion) or maybe ill put it like this i want the movements and such to be on par with the actual graphics of the game and movements for something that large in a game of EQ's time are not on par with the graphics of GW2 (to me).

Wrong tangent. This has really nothing to do at all with the point that it's about here.

If you want to talk realism: ever compared how fast an elephant moves, compared to a mouse? It's all law of mass and gravity here, larger objects especially living ones have a larger inertia and sufferance from gravity. That's why a small animal like a mouse or cat can cross many times more its own body length  in a few seconds in distance than an elephant. And if you want to talk believability in fictional creatures: look at tripods in invaders from mars or godzilla, large mobs that move but slowly, not jumping all over the landscape like some frog on speed.

But whether something can be animated realistic or not has nothing to do with the whole discussion.

They made the design decision to implement super large boss mobs, that are larger than seen in (most) other MMO's, and not to let them move that much. That doesn't mean that all boss mobs stay on their spot, because that simply isn't the case. Some, the very large ones probably, however seem to not move much. So be it.

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4779

3/30/12 5:16:45 PM#115
Originally posted by cutthecrap

Wrong tangent. This has really nothing to do at all with the point that it's about here.

If you want to talk realism: ever compared how fast an elephant moves, compared to a mouse? It's all law of mass and gravity here, larger objects especially living ones have a larger inertia and sufferance from gravity. That's why a small animal like a mouse or cat can cross many times more its own body length  in a few seconds in distance than an elephant. And if you want to talk believability in fictional creatures: look at tripods in invaders from mars or godzilla, large mobs that move but slowly, not jumping all over the landscape like some frog on speed.

But whether something can be animated realistic or not has nothing to do with the whole discussion.

They made the design decision to implement super large boss mobs, that are larger than seen in (most) other MMO's, and not to let them move that much. That doesn't mean that all boss mobs stay on their spot, because that simply isn't the case. Some, the very large ones probably, however seem to not move much. So be it.

Pretty much this ^

Some are stationary, some aren't. Many do have animations that give the illusion of movement (flying, stepping forwards & back, etc.) but Anet doesn't want the mobs getting trained around the map. While it would be nice to have most of the bosses moving a little more, I could also foresee this causing more problems than it solves. (ie. The shatterer being trained onto the artillery cannons, or into a nearby outpost).

That said, there are bosses that aren't stationary. Even bosses like the lovers move around, and one of the key strategies to that fight is to move them away from each other and attack them separately.

  RobertDinh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 695

3/30/12 5:19:31 PM#116

Basically from what i've seen here, people are trying to argue that bosses that move would cause too many issues, despite the fact that in reality mmos have had moving bosses for over a decade. 

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4779

3/30/12 5:27:50 PM#117
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Basically from what i've seen here, people are trying to argue that bosses that move would cause too many issues, despite the fact that in reality mmos have had moving bosses for over a decade. 

Not quite. There are bosses that move, just not ALL of them do.

For some it makes sense (like the boss shade, who is basically anchored to the ground). For others it makes a bit less sense (the large dragons). Where the issue arrises, is this (unlike other MMOs) is crammed with dynamic events. They want to avoid situations where you have say the boss from 1 event being pulled into another event.

While I do think that Anet could figure out an elegant solution to this if they wanted to, I also think that there are a few issues here that most people aren't taking into account. These events work quite a bit differently than in other games. Even in Rift, the Rift bosses didn't move much from the spawn event.

  bazak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 290

3/30/12 5:32:03 PM#118
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by bazak
Originally posted by cutthecrap

Sorry, but I find those arguments pretty weak. I'd only have to refer to EQ where you had giants 10-15 times larger than the players where there were no problems with them moving around and chasing players without them making 1 mile steps. If EQ 10 years ago can handle large boss monsters, walking and flying ones, move around and players being entertained fighting them, having large boss monsters move around in current MMO's like GW2 and fight players should be a non-issue as well.

 

I'd use other arguments instead, like:

- those boss monsters are exceptionally large, larger than boss monsters in other MMO's (just compare boss dragons in GW2 and WoW). I can see how this could have an influence on the decision to move them around much or only slightly

- who says that all boss mobs in GW2 are stationary, and not just the exceptionally large, mega ones? There were several mentioned in dungeons that chased players around for some distance.

 

 

question about that since i never played EQ, how detailed were the bosses? and how large compared to the shatterer? personaly i only want them moving around so much at that size because the larger they are the more unrealistic their movements become. they just stop looking right, untill the tech catches up at least and computers can run some sort of realistic physics foot placement system that determins how to make each step look and contact with the ground i personaly dont want them moving around like that,

 

it really just depends on how bad/ good it looks otherwise i would rather have preprogramed movements on a static boss. (personal opinion) or maybe ill put it like this i want the movements and such to be on par with the actual graphics of the game and movements for something that large in a game of EQ's time are not on par with the graphics of GW2 (to me).

Wrong tangent. This has really nothing to do at all with the point that it's about here.

If you want to talk realism: ever compared how fast an elephant moves, compared to a mouse? It's all law of mass and gravity here, larger objects especially living ones have a larger inertia and sufferance from gravity. That's why a small animal like a mouse or cat can cross many times more its own body length  in a few seconds in distance than an elephant. And if you want to talk believability in fictional creatures: look at tripods in invaders from mars or godzilla, large mobs that move but slowly, not jumping all over the landscape like some frog on speed.

But whether something can be animated realistic or not has nothing to do with the whole discussion.

They made the design decision to implement super large boss mobs, that are larger than seen in (most) other MMO's, and not to let them move that much. That doesn't mean that all boss mobs stay on their spot, because that simply isn't the case. Some, the very large ones probably, however seem to not move much. So be it.

touche,  and This agreed. the current system to me doesn't really take away from the game for me hence my lack of a problem with it the uber large ones in my opinion (remember i said opinion Dinh) dont need to move much to seem realistic to me, which is what a lot of us think.

 

(altho id like to note that with flight which is the big problem i wud have for mega bosses they could build up speed rapidly considering most things that fly tend to glide at points which could end up causing problems for realism at the very least with things like the shatterer causing massive gusts of wind blowing down trees  and people but when you consider that you have to consider other things and ive basicly just gone off on a tangent that has little to do with my initial point like i have a tendancy to do but feel like erasing it would make the time i spent on it all the more wastefull)

  silvermember

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 508

3/30/12 5:41:12 PM#119
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Basically from what i've seen here, people are trying to argue that bosses that move would cause too many issues, despite the fact that in reality mmos have had moving bosses for over a decade. 

so where does the boss move to? With over 30+ how does the boss select target to follow? Let me ask you this, if you ever stood next to an ant hill and ants start attacking you do you, pick out one specific ant and start swatting or do you just blindly do it till they are all gone? The point I am making is that the dragon has no reason to move around, because we are ants and the dragon isn't specifically angry at one due to no aggro system.

also a lot of people are saying bosses moved in old games that is true except it was in an instance for 25 people, the dragon has to be in an area with possibly 300+ people and not lag. Also all these arguments fall flat when you realize the boss mechanics seems far more involving than most raid fights. Finally, given how rewarding based on participation, melee classes get screwed over participation over a non issue.

  Ankur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/12
Posts: 340

3/30/12 6:18:31 PM#120
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by RobertDinh

Basically from what i've seen here, people are trying to argue that bosses that move would cause too many issues, despite the fact that in reality mmos have had moving bosses for over a decade. 

so where does the boss move to? With over 30+ how does the boss select target to follow? Let me ask you this, if you ever stood next to an ant hill and ants start attacking you do you, pick out one specific ant and start swatting or do you just blindly do it till they are all gone? The point I am making is that the dragon has no reason to move around, because we are ants and the dragon isn't specifically angry at one due to no aggro system.

also a lot of people are saying bosses moved in old games that is true except it was in an instance for 25 people, the dragon has to be in an area with possibly 300+ people and not lag. Also all these arguments fall flat when you realize the boss mechanics seems far more involving than most raid fights. Finally, given how rewarding based on participation, melee classes get screwed over participation over a non issue.

So now lag is the excuse? even if the boss doesn't move around and there is still lag it is going to ruin it anyways. I really doubt his movement is going to make a big difference. 

We are just talking about movement of the creature no one is suggesting that dragon should pick up one specific player at a time. A dragon can swipe with his tail, stomp, hit and toss people in air...a lot more can be done instead of just standing at one place and breathe fire.

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