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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Stationary bosses are stationary

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138 posts found
  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

3/28/12 11:13:44 AM#61
Originally posted by mrshroom89

<snip>

 So whats so different from wow here?  i see danger spots on the ground, i see adds spawning from either portals or out of water, a few abilities that appear to be on timers that require the player to react somwhat quickly, some positioning AOEs and 20 people standing around 1 giant mob repeatedly attacking it not actually doing anything to it other than widdling down an hp bar.

<snip>

For starters, they aren't locked away in a raid dungeon for the exclusive enjoyment of a handful of players.

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2611

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

3/28/12 11:17:35 AM#62

As I said a while back I think it would be pretty amazing if they had a world boss battle where the boss is walking to a city to destroy it. The path it takes would destroy some smaller villages etc. The whole point is to take it down before it reaches and destroys the city. Maybe in the future?

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

3/28/12 11:24:55 AM#63
Originally posted by Xzen

As I said a while back I think it would be pretty amazing if they had a world boss battle where the boss is walking to a city to destroy it. The path it takes would destroy some smaller villages etc. The whole point is to take it down before it reaches and destroys the city. Maybe in the future?

Maybe one of the those huge Cyclops, like at the end of the Gamesom Trailer, will do that. But I doubt you'd ever see these ridiculously huge Event bosses (like the Shadow Behemoth) moving about. In the end I don't mind that, when really the toughest bosses are like this and them moving about and being untankable, makes them a pain in the ass.

  e1eplayer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 21

3/28/12 11:34:09 AM#64

I decided to check out TotalBiscuit's video and the Heart value is the same 215. That 700 something value refers to Points of Interest, like the lumber camp he was next to. And look, the Wiki tells you exactly what those values mean and they are not Dynamic Events. As far as I know there is no value to track how many Dynamic Events you've completed (might be one in the Achievements Pane but not the map).

Also read this. She even mentions that people mistake Hearts for Dynamic Events.

 

Thank you for these links!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14375

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/28/12 11:37:33 AM#65

Most of the time this is due to engines and not wanting to break them. This has always been the case in MMO's with extremely large mobs. Find me an exception...

Krayts are a bad example BTW... They're not extremely large on the other hand look at AT-AT's in old SWG for a reason why most companies don't have things like that walking around.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2611

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

3/28/12 11:42:53 AM#66
Originally posted by Master10K
Originally posted by Xzen

As I said a while back I think it would be pretty amazing if they had a world boss battle where the boss is walking to a city to destroy it. The path it takes would destroy some smaller villages etc. The whole point is to take it down before it reaches and destroys the city. Maybe in the future?

Maybe one of the those huge Cyclops, like at the end of the Gamesom Trailer, will do that. But I doubt you'd ever see these ridiculously huge Event bosses (like the Shadow Behemoth) moving about. In the end I don't mind that, when really the toughest bosses are like this and them moving about and being untankable, makes them a pain in the ass.

Nah you could totaly have an event where you set up cannons or assist npcs that try to slow down the large boss along the route.

  User Deleted
3/28/12 11:45:49 AM#67

So all we do is stay in an are and just pew pew stuff with my bow unltil its health disappears.... They should have made the bosses unscripted because unpredictablity is much more fun than predictability.

  DJJazzy

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2068

3/28/12 11:49:20 AM#68
Originally posted by Distopia

Most of the time this is due to engines and not wanting to break them. This has always been the case in MMO's with extremely large mobs. Find me an exception...

Krayts are a bad example BTW... They're not extremely large on the other hand look at AT-AT's in old SWG for a reason why most companies don't have things like that walking around.

So I'm going off on a complete tangent here but so what. One of my biggest disappointments in SWTOR was going to Hoth and not being able to replicate any sort of big battle against the AT-ATs. I wanted to relive my ESB fantasies and that never happened :(

I know I know, different timeline and all but damn, I wanted to destroy an AT-AT.

  Dream_Chaser

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/11
Posts: 1054

3/28/12 11:55:27 AM#69

@HorrorScope

You're missing the point.

The reason that ArenaNet aren't allowing people to grief with mobs is because they aren't allowing people to grief period. Any means by which people do this will be quickly patched out, if people make an arse out of themselves then they're likely going to get banned.

This is a game about player camaraderie and cooperation.

If I had the choice between mobile dragons or having no methods of griefing in the game, I'd choose the latter. See, it would be hypocritical of them to stop people griefing in one way, but allow it in antoher. They have to put the kibosh on all sorts of griefing equally. And I'm fine with that.

When you look at many of their choices, there's this subconscious torrent behind it - the desire to remove inter-player competition in PvE and to eradicate griefing. I'm fine with that. I completely support that. I would speak for hours vehemently and passionately about how okay I am with that.

And really, like I said, it's a choice.

You may disagree with me, but I think they made the right choice.

@Unlight

Yeah. Pretty much. I smile whenever I see people noticing that.

Raids are locked away, exclusive content for people in raiding guilds. Often, I dislike raiding guilds because they're very sneery, they look down on the have-nots, and to get into even a half-decent raiding guild you have to beg your way in. I've never done that, because I have my dignity, but I can't help but despise games that do that. It's despicable.

ArenaNet are changing things up by removing the exclusivity of it all. There's no exclusive content any more. That's fantastic!

  RobertDinh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 695

3/28/12 11:57:57 AM#70

Long ago i called anet out on this, they said the technology of their game engine limited their large sized bosses from being able to move around.

 

I said that wasn't very innovative or trying to break the mold, for one of the key elements to PvE (the big boss encounter) they said to watch videos and tell them they are innovative, I said they weren't being innovative and they were settling for a lower standard, they said watch the videos and praise their game, I said no, then they said "darn it this one isn't a fanboi".

  kadepsyson

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1963

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

3/28/12 12:02:00 PM#71
Originally posted by mrshroom89
 

The whole "X Y is X" phrasing is absolutely moronic.

As to your topic,  I agree with the decision to make bosses accessible instead of doing the same damn thing that other MMO companies do.  I wouldn't play the game if it was the same as World of Warcraft with regards to raiding and a gear treadmill.

El Psy Congroo

  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 770

3/28/12 12:17:00 PM#72

who said boss fights aren't going to be similar to WoW with mechanics that are in WoW?

 

heres a couple differences though ...

 

1) they will be open world and will scale depending on how many show up, unlike in other games where a guild "locks" the encounter and outsiders can only watch.

2) everyone gets rewarded, again not like other games where only that guild gets the loot and only gets a few pieces of loot.

3) no main tank or healers - so on player wont be wacking on the shatterers toe and he just focuses on that player and ignores everyone else.

 

and the loot will be primarily looks oriented, meaning while they have stats on them you can get gear that has similar stats from other areas of the game (crafting, PVP).  no more "i need to kill X boss to get Y item so i can complete my uber killing gear and pwn everyone in PVP".

sorry thats going to come down to more of your skill than epic purplez.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14375

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/28/12 12:21:18 PM#73
Originally posted by DJJazzy
Originally posted by Distopia

Most of the time this is due to engines and not wanting to break them. This has always been the case in MMO's with extremely large mobs. Find me an exception...

Krayts are a bad example BTW... They're not extremely large on the other hand look at AT-AT's in old SWG for a reason why most companies don't have things like that walking around.

So I'm going off on a complete tangent here but so what. One of my biggest disappointments in SWTOR was going to Hoth and not being able to replicate any sort of big battle against the AT-ATs. I wanted to relive my ESB fantasies and that never happened :(

I know I know, different timeline and all but damn, I wanted to destroy an AT-AT.

Yeah hehe, I know what you mean, I had the same disappointed feeling myself on hoth.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

3/28/12 12:48:11 PM#74

It's really hard to tell w/ the dragons TBH.

The shatterer is one of the bosses that I know of that is actually meant to be stationary.

With the dragons, though, it could just be an old build (not coded yet), it could be the fact that they have a dozen or so players right up next to them (so the aggro mechanics for the dragons just has them focused on the players up front), it could also just be that, because they spawn crap all over the battlefield; anet just thinks that it would be too much for players to deal with (having a giant boss roaming around as well as all the minions & spawns that riddle the battlefield.

Either way, I would agree that it would be nice to see some more roaming from the giant bosses.

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3679

3/28/12 9:51:10 PM#75

Arenanet have said they don't want people training bosses around as a griefing mechanism, so there will be a leash. However, they have also said that combat introduces more involved and varied boss and mob AI as you go higher in level. Game features, combat elements and concepts for character development are layered on over the first 50 levels or so, so you can learn the game in it's many layers before you start to be expected to grasp it all for successful play.

It's very possible that big bosses will get a bit more mobile in the higher level zones. (I seem to remember reference to some higher level meta-events that could feature a boss that rampages accross a portion of the zone).

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  megera23

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/11
Posts: 239

3/28/12 10:16:44 PM#76

*Sigh* Since some kind moderator decided to delete my post on terms of NDA  violation, I'm going to repost this whit the note that I played the game during the G*Star DEMO last year and I am in fact NOT breaking any NDA.

 

 

Yes, sadly the largest bosses are stationary. However, that hardly means you can just stay behind and watch his health go down. I couldn't even get in range of the Shatterer to attack him, since he practically one-shot me with one of those crystal cells he summons and there weren't enough people around to distract him while someone else had to break me out of the thing.

 

And to whoever asked for the additional abilities, bosses get when more people are involved:

 

The Broodmother (the level 3 drake mini boss) has only the Fire Breath attack when fighting against a low number of players (which also happened in my case since I was 1v1-ing with her), however I've seen videos of her using her Tail Swipe attack to throw around players when the group was larger.

  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

3/28/12 10:23:43 PM#77

Sure the bosses can be stationarty.  However YOU are not.  Dodging and getting away from the boss at times is mandatory as TB showed in the Catacombs.  I've sure some bosses will not be so static but from some vids I've seen the paleyrs are incredibly mobile which makes the fact that stationary boss irrelevent.  Actually thing a more mobility by the players is a better mechanic.

  User Deleted
3/28/12 10:25:18 PM#78
Originally posted by mrshroom89

So far every big boss fight i have seen in the world for these dynamic events have stood in one place, not moving from their spawn location once.  The dragons will fly up in the air for a few seconds and then just land on the ground in the same exact place...

 

So whats so different from wow here?  i see danger spots on the ground, i see adds spawning from either portals or out of water, a few abilities that appear to be on timers that require the player to react somwhat quickly, some positioning AOEs and 20 people standing around 1 giant mob repeatedly attacking it not actually doing anything to it other than widdling down an hp bar.

 

Obviously it all looks alot better (10 years later it better)  than wow but thats not what im getting at.  Simply put it appears that though Anet has stated there going away from traditional mmo models it appears that boss fights havnt changed one bit.

 

 

 

Examples of 3 boss fights 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5RpX9oAaSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1JfSbKjHHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kFKFqzRhXKs#!

there's one major difference, you don't have to learn a dance. WoW had the dancing thing and from what i've seen of boss fights in SWTOR dungeons it's continued on into this year, they couldn't change everything i suppose. There are two other things that you didn't mention. Objects picked up in and used in the are can affect the boss fight tremendously, ie the canon to kill the black dragon and in the dungeons throwing boulders to separate the lovers in the lovers boss fight. 

Not exactly the same i have to say.

  User Deleted
3/28/12 10:27:32 PM#79
Originally posted by mrshroom89

So far every big boss fight i have seen in the world for these dynamic events have stood in one place, not moving from their spawn location once.  The dragons will fly up in the air for a few seconds and then just land on the ground in the same exact place...

 

So whats so different from wow here?  i see danger spots on the ground, i see adds spawning from either portals or out of water, a few abilities that appear to be on timers that require the player to react somwhat quickly, some positioning AOEs and 20 people standing around 1 giant mob repeatedly attacking it not actually doing anything to it other than widdling down an hp bar.

 

Obviously it all looks alot better (10 years later it better)  than wow but thats not what im getting at.  Simply put it appears that though Anet has stated there going away from traditional mmo models it appears that boss fights havnt changed one bit.

 

 

 

Examples of 3 boss fights 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5RpX9oAaSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1JfSbKjHHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kFKFqzRhXKs#!

forgive me if i'm wrong, but i got the impression that with many of these boss fights, you could fail the fight and lose? it's not like the boss will stand there and let you hit on it for a day or two? i believe that first dragon they kept showing which jumps out of the water was an example of that. where, if the players didn't work it right, they wouldn't kill it.

if that's so, that'd be a big reason for keeping them stationary. given their size, they'd wander all over the map. drag you into range of other mobs and everything would quickly fall to crap and everyone would complain. i think for the literal size of them, they had to be more or less stationary. but i have to say, that big water dragon thinummy - what an entrance! huh? am i right? it still looks pretty badass to me, even if it's not running you all over the map so it's always "out of range" of your attacks and you can't kill it so you fail the event and getz no lootz.

  User Deleted
3/28/12 10:30:05 PM#80
Originally posted by Unlight
Originally posted by mrshroom89

 So whats so different from wow here?  i see danger spots on the ground, i see adds spawning from either portals or out of water, a few abilities that appear to be on timers that require the player to react somwhat quickly, some positioning AOEs and 20 people standing around 1 giant mob repeatedly attacking it not actually doing anything to it other than widdling down an hp bar.

For starters, they aren't locked away in a raid dungeon for the exclusive enjoyment of a handful of players.

amen, brother.

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