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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Question to those who've played Tera and GW2...

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124 posts found
  Kreedz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 445

3/27/12 4:44:00 AM#21
Originally posted by DJJazzy

Tera uses a target recipticle like an FPS uses. There is no autotarget or lock on target so you actually have to aim your abilities. One thing that it does that I hate is that once you activate an ability it locks your character in place until the animation is done. So in that regard it is inferior to GW2's combat. One thing they have in common is that they both do splash damage (weapons hit more than one target).  I would say Tera is a bit more action oriented except for that animation lock.

The word you are looking for is Reticule, or Crosshair.

 

A "Target Recepticle" sounds like a Toilet for Assassin victims.

 

Just sayin'.

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  komobo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/08
Posts: 145

3/27/12 4:46:31 AM#22
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by komobo
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by ariboersma
 

you cannot tell me that its important for gameplay to lose every benefit of blinking forward while waiting for the camera to catch up to you.. since that is the animation for it. The rooting is absolutely silly and unneeded. Also not all profs can dodge in Tera.

You obviously didnt play all the classes ?

Some classes self root on some skills - with all logical explanation : Like huge damage overhead swing of heavy axe. You couldnt move in RL as well.

Other lighter classes have no self root at all. Like Warrior can move jump and dodge while performing attacks freely.

Its TRADEOFF

If you could perform super damage heavy hits and move in same time - why would anyone play light classes ?

Everyone would just be berserker.

Same goes for dodge

 

BTW - RaiderZ have much better dodge which is not skill, but available to all classes. Both dodge and block.

Much better combat system IMHO

 

Utter rubbish this.

I have now tried most classes in the game to the extent the EU CB allowed me. Your character is rooted in place no matter which ability you use and you lose all control of your char till the animation ends, even when you activate what could be thought of as your auto-attack equivalent. Yes the duration of the rooting animation vary depending on the skill used but you still stop dead in your tracks regardless. Stop-and-Go combat. It is possible that the rooting is lifted at max level but i doubt it, since the gameplay is designed with the rooting concept as its base.

The dodge on your warrior has a cooldown (5 secs) and an energy requirement and no you can't use any abilities while you are dodging, you have to wait till the dodging animation ends.

Also, please don't try and justify this sort of gameplay mechanics by drawing parallels to RL analogies and references, it only ends badly and is a moot point. Regarding your remark about it being a Tradeoff - Certainly not a very favorable tradeoff to say the least. The way the action-oriented gameplay is implemented in Tera seems very clunky to me and breaks any sense of dynamic gameplay; rooting on every ability is unnecessary. It is perfectly fine on some skills like iconic/hard hitting skills but definitely turned out to be a constant nuisance when the game roots you in place on every skill.

When that's said and done, the combat in Tera is, in my opinion, not bad at all but in fact very involved and by the end of the day, the gameplay it is just a matter of getting used too.

 

On topic:

Personally i very much hope Anet decides on a more dynamic combat style in GW2, which is what we get by the looks of it. If that means i lose out on aiming (some skills in GW2 do require some degree of aiming) in favor of more dynamic gameplay, then thats totally fine by me.

 

Ok. Let me give you example of high damage skill that you can do and still move.

Archer : Focused shot

 

Yes i used that skill on my archer, it is a Charged skilled. I honestly cant remember if you can run around while you are charging the skill but i do remember that my little Popori archer got flung back when firing the skill and during that animation you cannot move/control your char.

* Waves at Pushkina *

  megera23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/24/11
Posts: 240

3/27/12 4:48:30 AM#23
Originally posted by R.I.O.T
Originally posted by megera23

I've played both, but neither for long enough to make a good comparison. But perhaps this video will give you a good idea about the combat in GW2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4

Yep it seems GW2 combat is similar to WoW, in that its a TAB-TARGET style...with the ability to dodge (upgraded version of tab-target combat) which is not like TERA's FPS style of combat. Even the "lock-on" skills in TERA have to be aimed at the enemy to even be able to use them.

The combat of this video shows it:

                       HERE

GW2s combat still looks fun and engaging and allows for movement during combat. TERA may have movement restrictions on some spells, like "FireBlast" for sorcs...mainly cuz its a super-charge spell which can usually one shot people in pvp. Range would kite melee all day, its for balance really...

I for one can't wait to get in a play GW2 along with TERA! 

 

I can't really agree about calling the system Tab-targeting, though. You definitely have the option to use tab(if you so desire), but I pressed it no more than 2-3 times, before I figured out I don't need it at all in the 80 minutes of demo time I got. It's an interesting hybrid between Tera's pure FPS targeting and WoW's system I guess, but the dodging isn't the only difference between WoW's system and GW2's.

  User Deleted
3/27/12 4:50:11 AM#24

really QQ abt the animation lock, which in tera's case is part of the combat mechanics i.e. u cant spam skills like in all the button smashes, just remember one man's meat is another's poison

imo, these games are trying to innovate which is good for us.

 

  L3nnyGp

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 147

3/27/12 5:00:12 AM#25
Originally posted by megera23

I can't really agree about calling the system Tab-targeting, though. You definitely have the option to use tab(if you so desire), but I pressed it no more than 2-3 times, before I figured out I don't need it at all in the 80 minutes of demo time I got. It's an interesting hybrid between Tera's pure FPS targeting and WoW's system I guess, but the dodging isn't the only difference between WoW's system and GW2's.

Tab-targeting is still what it lookes like regardless of how you try to spin it, you may not be using the tab key but you are still mainly locked on the target you want to use your skills...Especially for range, aoe skills and wide area skills offer a little different approach.  

HERE

HERE - You can see it, don't deny it!

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

3/27/12 5:15:26 AM#26


Originally posted by R.I.O.T

Originally posted by megera23

I can't really agree about calling the system Tab-targeting, though. You definitely have the option to use tab(if you so desire), but I pressed it no more than 2-3 times, before I figured out I don't need it at all in the 80 minutes of demo time I got. It's an interesting hybrid between Tera's pure FPS targeting and WoW's system I guess, but the dodging isn't the only difference between WoW's system and GW2's.


Tab-targeting is still what it lookes like regardless of how you try to spin it, you may not be using the tab key but you are still mainly locked on the target you want to use your skills...Especially for range, aoe skills and wide area skills offer a little different approach.

HERE

HERE - You can see it, don't deny it!


I don't know what you're trying to show in all these videos you keep posting, but according to your definition, Ocarina of Time is similar to WoW because you can lock onto enemies and "tab" through your targets.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  Sector13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 632

3/27/12 5:19:57 AM#27
Originally posted by Elminzter

really QQ abt the animation lock, which in tera's case is part of the combat mechanics i.e. u cant spam skills like in all the button smashes, just remember one man's meat is another's poison

imo, these games are trying to innovate which is good for us.

TERA's combat is not an innovation. It's been done in console games and already a few online games. I like where TERA is pointing MMOs but I feel that Vindictus, Dragon Nest and C9 were the games to point the industry in that direction. TERA is just taking that combat to open world but that doesn't change the fact that the combat has been done before.

  EvilestTwin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 279

3/27/12 5:20:58 AM#28

Most of the people in the GW2 vids have no idea what they're doing.   This snippet gives a pretty good idea of how you can totally avoid hitboxes just by moving out of the way or moving back just bit.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4&feature=youtu.be&t=3m30s

The skill lock in TERA is actually pretty terrible for the warrior.   It makes some of the skills pretty useless because the only time they're useful is when you have an attack opening, but they're not good enough for you to use during that opening because you have better choices.   

The warrior has 1 attack skill that actually allows you to 'move' while attacking and that's Rising Fury.   You can aim the direction of the first 2 hits and then reposition yourself for the 3rd hit.   You can actually dodge attacks with this because the animation for the 1st two hits moves you more than  if you just ran or attacked normally.

They really should have made more attacks not lock you in place.

  L3nnyGp

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 147

3/27/12 5:22:51 AM#29
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

I don't know what you're trying to show in all these videos you keep posting, but according to your definition, Ocarina of Time is similar to WoW because you can lock onto enemies and "tab" through your targets.

Its a tab-target combat system, get over it. Why is that so hard to understand? Not like TERAs, FPS style... Make sense? You have an arrow over the target indicating you are targeting it, then use 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5 or what have you.. Melee attacks are similar, but aoe and wide-area attacks can be used without the need to actually target something and hit it.

Regardless of what it is, I'm really just interested in the story and Dynamic-event part of GW2

  komobo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/08
Posts: 145

3/27/12 5:24:15 AM#30
Originally posted by Elminzter

really QQ abt the animation lock, which in tera's case is part of the combat mechanics i.e. u cant spam skills like in all the button smashes, just remember one man's meat is another's poison

imo, these games are trying to innovate which is good for us.

 

Yes yes, qq about this and qq about that. Never mind Skyrim's PC UI, it's just a part of the game's UI design or what about the camera control in Kingdoms of Amalur, that's just how it was setup right?

We can apply that train of thought to any and everything, that way we needn't actually think and there is certainly no need for the tedious and time-consuming task of expressing ones opinion on any matter.

Oh and Tera lets you spam any skills as much as any other MMO. The animation rooting acts as a GCD, you can of course choose to think of it as clever anti-spam functionality but in reality it is nothing but a nice animation in place of a GCD.

Innovation is usually a good thing but it does not mean that innovation should go uncontested or one should throw critical-thinking overboard, for the sake of....innovation.

* Waves at Pushkina *

  Sector13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 632

3/27/12 5:28:11 AM#31
Originally posted by R.I.O.T
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

I don't know what you're trying to show in all these videos you keep posting, but according to your definition, Ocarina of Time is similar to WoW because you can lock onto enemies and "tab" through your targets.

Its a tab-target combat system, get over it. Why is that so hard to understand? Not like TERAs, FPS style... Make sense? You have an arrow over the target indicating you are targeting it, then use 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5 or what have you.. Melee attacks are similar, but aoe and wide-area attacks can be used without the need to actually target something and hit it.

Regardless of what it is, I'm really just interested in the story and Dynamic-event part of GW2

Just cause it uses a targetting system doesn't mean it doesn't use hit boxes. Which would make it different from the WoW style of combat. If we are going to get technical here TERA is not true FPS style cause the animations limit your aiming with the camera especially if you're a melee character, where your character can attack in a different direction then your camera. That is something in TERA that always bothered me that doesn't happen in other action based games.

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

3/27/12 5:46:09 AM#32


Originally posted by R.I.O.T

Its a tab-target combat system, get over it. Why is that so hard to understand? Not like TERAs, FPS style... Make sense? You have an arrow over the target indicating you are targeting it, then use 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5 or what have you.. Melee attacks are similar, but aoe and wide-area attacks can be used without the need to actually target something and hit it.


Okay, so then there are two types of combat in games: combat where you manually aim and combat that is like WoW.

I never said the game didn't have a targeting system. You completely ignored my Zelda comparison. And no, before you make strange assumptions about what I'm saying, I'm not saying the combat in GW2 is like Zelda, but how the hell does having a targeting system make it like WoW?

Is this honestly the only aspect of combat that you can detect? Whether or not you can target enemies? There's a lot more to it that makes it closer to Tera than to WoW.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  L3nnyGp

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 147

3/27/12 5:49:39 AM#33
Originally posted by Sector13

Just cause it uses a targetting system doesn't mean it doesn't use hit boxes. Which would make it different from the WoW style of combat. If we are going to get technical here TERA is not true FPS style cause the animations limit your aiming with the camera especially if you're a melee character, where your character can attack in a different direction then your camera. That is something in TERA that always bothered me that doesn't happen in other action based games.

So what if TERAs combat  is not like "other action based games" thats what sets it apart, you either like it and learn how to combat with it or you don't.

Also I don't see how the animations limit aiming, you aim then use your skill. If you miss its because you timed it wrong or the enemy dodged or you're you fail at aiming. Why would the skill you use at the time of activation move with you moving your camera, its part of being strategic and careful when / how you use your skills. (Takes abit of skill)

For GW2, I'm thinking more torwards the PvP aspect of range vs melee: How are you able to dodge a range toon? If they are constantly locked on you spamming spells or shooting you...especially since range can move and cast spells at the same time... Does dodging make range loose you as a traget?

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2189

3/27/12 5:52:35 AM#34
Originally posted by DJJazzy

Tera uses a target recipticle like an FPS uses. There is no autotarget or lock on target so you actually have to aim your abilities. One thing that it does that I hate is that once you activate an ability it locks your character in place until the animation is done. So in that regard it is inferior to GW2's combat. One thing they have in common is that they both do splash damage (weapons hit more than one target).  I would say Tera is a bit more action oriented except for that animation lock.

  One flaw to you is another persons treasure, having animation lock(which can be interrupted by dodge/block in most cases and some glyphs can allow movement while charging/use of certain skills) is a HUGE PLUS for me and many fans of certain action orientated games.

 

It helps differ the skilled players from the bad in a good way, anyone who doesn't think before attacking and goes all spammy spammy 1,2,1,3,2 will always miss me and leave themselves exposed while I kick the living crap out of them in PvP.

 

Two 37 slayers face off in questing gear(me and a random who met in OWPvP)...completely even fight and the result?

 

 

Basically full health and a dead enemy, can't do that if it's all spammy spammy swing my sword like a mad man with no negative repercussions based combat.

  L3nnyGp

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 147

3/27/12 6:08:45 AM#35
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

Okay, so then there are two types of combat in games: combat where you manually aim and combat that is like WoW.

I never said the game didn't have a targeting system. You completely ignored my Zelda comparison. And no, before you make strange assumptions about what I'm saying, I'm not saying the combat in GW2 is like Zelda, but how the hell does having a targeting system make it like WoW?

Is this honestly the only aspect of combat that you can detect? Whether or not you can target enemies? There's a lot more to it that makes it closer to Tera than to WoW.

I said the combat system is "Similar to WoW." or it could even be "AION" or "RIFT." Doesn't matter which, they all use a tab- targeting system.

YES! Even though I'm much more interested in the STORY and DYNAMIC part of GW2, combat is still a very important part in any MMO. I want the combat to be more skill based, not like tab-targeting at all, that wouldn't make it challenging and even fun imo. I'm sure tho...I'd forget about it with what other aspects GW2 claims to offer.

  Sector13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 632

3/27/12 6:12:40 AM#36
Originally posted by R.I.O.T
Originally posted by Sector13

Just cause it uses a targetting system doesn't mean it doesn't use hit boxes. Which would make it different from the WoW style of combat. If we are going to get technical here TERA is not true FPS style cause the animations limit your aiming with the camera especially if you're a melee character, where your character can attack in a different direction then your camera. That is something in TERA that always bothered me that doesn't happen in other action based games.

So what if TERAs combat  is not like "other action based games" thats what sets it apart, you either like it and learn how to combat with it or you don't.

Also I don't see how the animations limit aiming, you aim then use your skill. If you miss its because you timed it wrong or the enemy dodged or you're you fail at aiming. Why would the skill you use at the time of activation move with you moving your camera, its part of being strategic and careful when / how you use your skills. (Takes abit of skill)

For GW2, I'm thinking more torwards the PvP aspect of range vs melee: How are you able to dodge a range toon? If they are constantly locked on you spamming spells or shooting you...especially since range can move and cast spells at the same time... Does dodging make range loose you as a traget?

I just told you how it sets it apart and your arguement is "well, deal with it or don't play it". I'm just telling you that is how it differs, if you think limiting the control of your character means skill then that's you but I think that it's just limited control. That's like saying "Well, Castlevania's combat is better then Super Castlevania 4 cause it takes more skill." When I say that 4 is better cause it allows for greater control. So, that is up to you but I like to be able to control my character at all times, not only when I am not attacking.

  L3nnyGp

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 147

3/27/12 6:20:01 AM#37
Originally posted by Sector13

I just told you how it sets it apart and your arguement is "well, deal with it or don't play it". I'm just telling you that is how it differs, if you think limiting the control of your character means skill then that's you but I think that it's just limited control. That's like saying "Well, Castlevania's combat is better then Super Castlevania 4 cause it takes more skill." When I say that 4 is better cause it allows for greater control. So, that is up to you but I like to be able to control my character at all times, not only when I am not attacking.

You are controlling your character, its ultimately you who decides when to use the skill. I know that you can even cancel your skills you are using with dodge, block, back-step, etc. Plus you're using a skill, how else will other people know to react to it if there is no indication of the spell being used (animation). Its part of the system and balancing of TERA, to each his/ her own.

  Sector13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 632

3/27/12 6:24:02 AM#38
Originally posted by R.I.O.T
Originally posted by Sector13

I just told you how it sets it apart and your arguement is "well, deal with it or don't play it". I'm just telling you that is how it differs, if you think limiting the control of your character means skill then that's you but I think that it's just limited control. That's like saying "Well, Castlevania's combat is better then Super Castlevania 4 cause it takes more skill." When I say that 4 is better cause it allows for greater control. So, that is up to you but I like to be able to control my character at all times, not only when I am not attacking.

You are controlling your character, its ultimately you who decides when to use the skill. I know that you can even cancel your skills you are using with dodge, block, back-step, etc. Plus you're using a skill, how else will other people know to react to it if there is no indication of the spell being used (animation). Its part of the system and balancing of TERA, to each his/ her own.

Saying that it's a part of the system doesn't change the simple fact of that is still limits the control of your character compared to other action based MMOs or FPSs like you compared TERAs controls to. In your own words, it limits your control, "get over it".

  komobo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/08
Posts: 145

3/27/12 6:25:30 AM#39
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by DJJazzy

Tera uses a target recipticle like an FPS uses. There is no autotarget or lock on target so you actually have to aim your abilities. One thing that it does that I hate is that once you activate an ability it locks your character in place until the animation is done. So in that regard it is inferior to GW2's combat. One thing they have in common is that they both do splash damage (weapons hit more than one target).  I would say Tera is a bit more action oriented except for that animation lock.

  One flaw to you is another persons treasure, having animation lock(which can be interrupted by dodge/block in most cases and some glyphs can allow movement while charging/use of certain skills) is a HUGE PLUS for me and many fans of certain action orientated games.

 

It helps differ the skilled players from the bad in a good way, anyone who doesn't think before attacking and goes all spammy spammy 1,2,1,3,2 will always miss me and leave themselves exposed while I kick the living crap out of them in PvP.

 

Two 37 slayers face off in questing gear(me and a random who met in OWPvP)...100% even fight and the result?

 

 

Basically full health and a dead enemy, can't do that if it's all spammy spammy swing my sword like a mad man with no negative repercussions based combat.

 
I definitely agree with your first paragraph.
 
However, I disagree with your ascertain that the animation lock is what provides the means of distinguishing a skilled player from that of nooby one. Again, you can be as spammy in Tera as in any other MMO. Spam all you skills in WoW and be sure that you will be dispatched quickly.
 
No, what provides the notion of skill is the fact that you have to aim your abilities. If you do not master the art of aiming you are opening up yourself for an enemy's attack. What rooting does do however, is make it so that anticipating the position of your enemy is easier and thus provides you with a subtle 'helping hand' in aiming your ability.

* Waves at Pushkina *

  User Deleted
3/27/12 6:28:47 AM#40
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Dudes, he is talking about combat - not the graphic style :P

 

Anyway.

TERA excellent combat. Totally FPS style targeting - you need to aim ! , dodging - the whole deal.

(dont listen to people talking about self rooting - its important gameplay element)

BTW - check RaiderZ , its F2P with same combat style , but imho even better

 

GW2

Tab targeting. Bit closer to AOC than TERA.

Its mix of old system and TERA.

Stile line of sight, dodging ...

But mch more varied in skills and effects than both Tera and RaiderZ

 

 

IMHO

Both have their merits. And both are loads of fun :)

 

 

 

Good post. GW2 is much more tactical in my opinion - skills are a lot more meaningful, but doesnt require aiming for most direct attacks (although you can still dodge them).

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