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3/27/12 5:03:28 AM#101
Originally posted by RefMinor Ok first of all, in game name, not real name, an in game avatar is not a representation of a real person, its the representation of a in game character, its a role playing game. Its not facebook. Secondly, The mittani or Alex Gianturco, neither are on payroll with CCP or have any relation other than being CSM chaiman which means representing the player base in questions of game designs, he doesnt represent CCP in any way so I dont see the relavence. If he broke the EULA then that should have consequences, sure. Afaik CCP is looking into that. |
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3/27/12 5:05:51 AM#102
Originally posted by GMan3 He is not on payroll with CCP, he does not represent CCP in any way. He is the CSM Chairman which means he represents the Eve community in questions of game design. Thats it. |
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3/27/12 5:07:50 AM#103
I'm not surprised in the least. |
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3/27/12 5:09:02 AM#104
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE |
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3/27/12 5:09:57 AM#105
Originally posted by BandenOriginally posted by GMan3 He is one of the public faces of CCP, IN THE REAL WORLD, he represents them and their corporate image, in game democracy is a sham that is sustained because CCP choose for it to be that way. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/27/12 5:13:38 AM#106
Originally posted by Banden Yep. Caught that after the fact. I was so shocked that I posted before going back and reading the entire story. It DOES NOT change the fact that he should loose the Chairmanship AND be banned for life from the game. There are some things as human being that just should never happen and calling for the harassment of someone to the point that kill themselves is pretty high on the list. "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?" |
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3/27/12 5:15:40 AM#107
Originally posted by RefMinor
Lol, yeah ok if you think that then there really is not much point in arguing with you. That is hardly an objective view. |
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3/27/12 5:20:04 AM#108
Originally posted by BandenOriginally posted by RefMinor And you believe in democratic rights in a game where every time you log in you renounce even the ownership of your character. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/27/12 5:22:59 AM#109
Originally posted by bunnyhopper Sorry, I don't see any ironic white knighting, I just see some genuine folks who are concerned that a weak bloke might top himself after being bullied by cowardly, drunken twits. Thankfully (and luckily) it seems to be a storm in a teacup given the fact that the guy was as surprised about it as anyone else when he found out about the hoo-haa. Still, that shit can't be tolerated. |
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3/27/12 5:24:40 AM#110
Originally posted by RefMinor Wat? No, that is the ACTUAL intended function of the CSM chairman, I dont believe any of the sort. |
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3/27/12 5:25:50 AM#111
CSM is not the or a public face of CCP, sorry buddy. |
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3/27/12 5:29:46 AM#112
Originally posted by Quesa Then how will they sack him if he chooses not resign? And they will. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/27/12 5:31:30 AM#113
Originally posted by BandenOriginally posted by RefMinor I think CCP have used the CSM for a lot of marketing reasons, that makes them a public face, regardless of the player liaison role. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/27/12 5:35:24 AM#114
I thought his apology sounded sincere and was about as humbling for him as the deed he did required. He also went to the person he targeted and apologised directly.
I dont think he needs to bow his head down any further. Honestly it is starting to sound like a petty thing. He doesnt work for ccp, he was drunk, he said something dumb. Who the hell hasnt done that. And almost every person who has gone through puberty has done something horrible towards another person including bullying. Its obviously tempting to go off the deep end on Mittani because of who he is in EVE, but thats hypocritical.
CCP might want to take the oppertunity to inset some rules about how drunk their panels get at these events, and also check over whats being presented. That is if they wish to avoid these things in the future. Dumb stuff happens when men get drunk and revert to their: Its just a game - ethics, because frankly those are all quite appallingly low.
Anyway, I thought the apology was sincere. And if it wasnt I dont even care, all I require is that if someone finds another person so pathetic, in that they confess to being suicidal to a perfect stranger (except the stranger is known for being brutal and remorseless), that they dont flaunt how ridiculous they find that person in my face, because it might remind me that I too could think the same, for just a second, and I'd rather think of myself as a much nicer person than that.
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3/27/12 5:45:54 AM#115
Originally posted by Nilenya I have no axe to grind here, some things go beyond the game, drunkenness is a reason not an excuse (if you crash when you drink drive for example you are not excused), I don't recall ever bullying or trying to get all my classmates to bully anyone, this is the real world, not Internet spaceships. It read like a good apology should and I take it at face value, but the guy has to step down as a representative. CCP need him to resign to avoid people leaving when they remove him, he just needs to do the right thing now and get on with being the biggest villain in New Eden. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/27/12 5:47:09 AM#116
Originally posted by Nilenya I would of believed it had his initial response not been "Deal with it." I think he is just sorry he got caught on video. I mean who wants their real name to be googled followed by articles showing just how big of a douche you are in real life. |
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3/27/12 5:51:50 AM#117
No it doesnt. Sure the CSM is used for marketing to existing customers, but that doesnt make individuel members of the CSM "the official face of CCP", come on. If you see it that way then thats honestly your own problem. I just watched the whole thing and its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell. Im responding to all this hate and rage, because it honestly seems excessive. Have some sense people. |
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3/27/12 5:54:46 AM#118
I'm actually shocked that people are shocked by this. This is typical goons, they've been doing this for years. I can only imagine how many kids have been told repeatedly to kill themselves by goons over the years, I know of a few personally. Me, I've got a thick skin and have dealt with goons in most games they've played so it doesn't bother me but I'm not the ideal target for a goon. Goons look for any sign of personal weakness, someone they believe they can make cry or to push to the end of what that person can take. They post the harasment so others may laugh at it as well.
How this can go on for so long and suddenly be seen as a blight just because it was done publicly just shocks me........ well no, not really I guess. The Goons actually made CCP look bad with this one so finally CCP will step in and do something for that one instance. Doesn't help those that have been herassed mercilessly over the years and the ones they will herass in the future, but at least this one guy will be spared future Goon herassment for a little while at least.
Goons have done far worse than this....... it's just that none of it effected CCP's image before.
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3/27/12 5:56:18 AM#119
A few thoughts which have probably all been said before in some way, shape, or form:
1) GS and Mittani are well known for this kind of crap. This is nothing new and I'm sure encouraging this kind of griefing is all part of his self-important "ART OF WAR" approach to EvE. It's the public nature of the comments and the severity of them, drunken joking aside, that is causing the current shitstorm. That and the fact that he's so full of himself and hubris that he would even "go there" in joking about suicide like this and thinks it's funny to do so in the first place.
2) Furthermore, his apology is anything but sincere and repentent when you consider that he gives himself an out for taking responsibility ("I was so drunk I didn't even remember it" <--- the lame ass excuse of a CHILD) and that he blames being drunk for the comment, but as others have pointed out, he was sober enough to make slides containing the details of this episode, so it shows forethought and that he knew PRECISELY what he was doing (i.e., mocking another player for being a QQ'ing bitch). Also, drinking just lowers inhibitions, meaning that a person's actions when drunk reflect their true thoughts and personality more than "the alcohol did it all" excuse would have us believe....
3) The miner in question doesn't really get my sympathy considering he was running 22 ships and was likely just saying what he said to try to gain sympathy from an organization known for relishing the misery of "pubbies".... In all honesty, I think playing any game that rabidly (22 ships/accounts) and investing that much value in any activity within it is probably a major reason the miner was getting divorced in the first place. The miner is probably way too absorbed in the game and, in all honesty, it's probably not a terrible thing if people ruin his day IG and he's actually forced to go outside and get some sun more than once a month. That said, it is just subhuman to wish suicide and death on anybody, all joking aside. It is never deserved, despite what a douche the person is. The ability to dehumanize the players on the other end of the keyboard and act like a total asshole is one of the most disgusting aspects of internet anonymity, and Alex's doing so publicly (even at a fanfest) is crossing that line.
4) All of the supporters of Mittens and internet tough guys who keep epeening and parrotting the pathetic cyber machismo "Harden the Fuck Up -- HTFU" bullshit to defend this kind of crap aren't doing Mittani (or EvE) any favors. You are just showing what a large number of players the game has who lack sensitivity and the ability to distinguish right from wrong (bordering on the psychopathic/sociopathic). For those of us who are older, it's pretty easy to guess the nature of the people behind this kind of false bravado -- i.e., many of them are probably people who act like such hardasses when behind a keyboard and who lord their "power" over others in a virtual world because they have very little power in real life (there are always exceptions, of course). Still, when you guys keep perpetuating this stupid prick-waving, it makes it seem like EvE is little more than a playground for basement dwelling neckbeards (who had their milk money stolen a few too many times when they were younger in school) to inflict all the pent up rage and anger they have held inside for all these years. In other words, your "hard edge" is making the game look bad because, honestly, anybody who has to try that hard to make a point of how callous and uncaring they are strike a lot of us outsiders as scared children with ginormous "little men"/inferiority complexes.
5) I say all of this being a complete nerd and geek myself. I am socially awkward, I'm no "tough guy" and I can be a cruel P.O.S. to people online too, but I would never encourage somebody to kill themselves (or solicit others to do so). You know why? Because I am old enough and have seen enough shit in my time that I realize these kinds of actions actually DO have an effect in RL sometimes. Yes, even online shit... despite how often all of you say "oh, it's just the internet, anybody who takes it seriously is stupid".... it DOES matter sometimes. More specifically, I am an educator and I have actually experienced the consequences of "harmless" online insults and harassment (we've had a few students in my district kill themselves over the years, one was even from our school).... She was not my student (same grade level that I teach though and many of my students knew her and were close friends with her and were devastated, to say the least), but it DOES matter, you assholes. This isn't just a "consequence free" zone where you can spout whatever shit you want and think it doesn't matter because "it's all online." Shit that happens here does matter and does spill over into the real world, and if The Mittani's and internet toughguys fail to realize this, I guarantee the current "cyber bullying" laws (and proposed legislation) will seem like a walk in the park to what regulators will shove down our throat when somebody like this miner actually does off themselves because of shit like what GS does. In other words, I am saying all of the above because the internet is still semi-free, but if you abuse that freedom by acting like complete animals, we won't have anonymity for that much longer (case in point, look at what is happening in the UK with the crackdown on cyber harassment/bullying).
TL;DR -- The freedom of being anonymous, and the liberty to be an asshole, comes with responsibility. If people continue to abuse this kind of freedom and things keep getting worse, you can bet your bottom dollar that the powers that be will see to it all of our online activities are linked to our RL identity (and our actions here will have serious implications, and I'm not just talking about the current slaps on the wrist you can face for being a mean bastard online).
PS--I know much of our online activities are linkable to our RL identities, but imagine a world where we no longer have avatars or personas. Where our social security info (or your country's equivalent), our address, our name, our other personal info. is just one button push away for some publicly-sanctioned, pencil pushing bureaucrat who is looking to dish out a little "justice" to all the bad little trolls. I don't know about you, but I enjoy being able to create personas and express myself in various ways behind the mask of various online identities. I'd hate for the public to eventually push to "unmask" us all, or at least those of us who fall under their legal jurisdiction. It will happen, and soon, if this kind of crap keeps going from bad to worse (which is the current trend, I'm afraid). |
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3/27/12 6:02:52 AM#120
Originally posted by Banden "the official face of CCP" please do not make up quotes and attribute them to me. I think you are the one with the problem and it seems the Mittani agrees with me. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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