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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » WoW vs. SWTOR viability - the key stat is new players

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112 posts found
  blackweb

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/11
Posts: 15

 
OP  3/25/12 1:49:13 PM#41
Originally posted by MosesZD

 

Ah, ha ha hah ahaaa.....    That's rich.   The answer is NO.    

 

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

 

No servers have been added, save three Oceania servers, since 12/20/2011.   Server-hours are now over 50% LIGHT during weekend play.  That's peak play and a doubling of this negative measurement (25% to 50%).     Server hours are now just 3% heavy on weekends (during peak playtime), down from 30% heavy on January 8th.   That's 1/10th the 'heavy status' hours of January 8th.

 

So a doubling of time spent in light (under 450 players) and one-tenth the time spent in heavy...   And you're saying SWTOR growing?   Face the facts.   Just face 'em.   Make your peace with the upcoming server mergers and stop pretending this game is an unqualified success.   It's not.

 

The only thing SWTOR is better at is contracting.    It's crashing and burning at a  much faster rate than WoW...

 

Sever stats on websites dont mean anything.  All that matters is players in game.   The wow leveling zones are deserted while the SWTOR leveling zones, at least on my server are bustling.

  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

3/25/12 1:49:56 PM#42
Originally posted by gu357u53r
Originally posted by sicness277

Again though, while they are facts they're hardly conclusive enough to make the claims that you're making. If you want to actually have a more definitive result then you must do much more research than random recruiting information from 2 servers.

Your entire 'research' is the problem here. You think it's enough to make a valid conclusion that SWTOR is doing better than WoW when it's not even remotely close. You would need to do much more, unbiased, research.

The facts may support your point of view, but they hardly define it in the way you're trying to claim.

You failed to read his original post it is easy to come to the conclusion that his information has a valid claim, and proves his point. Without players, where is the game?

Originally posted by blackweb

Why are starting zone numbers so important to MMORPG viability?  Because without new players it is very difficult for guilds to recruit and form new guilds or replace losses due to attrition in existing guilds.   New blood is the key to guild and MMORPG viability.

His information may have a valid claim, but again it's hardly as conclusive as he's making it out to be considering the minimal research done. Not to mention the fact that his information is solely from his point of view and could be completely made up for all we know. (I'm not saying it actually is, just that he's providing no proof of his research, just claims of it).

I could go even further pointing out how one game is in it's infancy while the other is nearing an expansion, a point where most people in the game will be at level cap. There are several other factors that make his 'research' incoclusive and likely completely biased for all we know. And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just take someone's word that game A is doing better than game B just because the minimal research they did makes it look that way.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/25/12 1:50:21 PM#43

it does not make a difference if 500 million people are playing a game.

If the game is shallow, lacking in depth and has poorly implimented ideas...the entire planet can be playing it and wont make it even a little bit better.

Seriously...go log into hello kitty online and play it alone...then have 30 of your friends log in and play with them and come back here and tell me that hello kitty online is actually a good game with the right people playing it.

 

Yeah...thats what I thought.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

3/25/12 1:51:24 PM#44
Originally posted by blackweb
Originally posted by MosesZD

 

Ah, ha ha hah ahaaa.....    That's rich.   The answer is NO.    

 

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

 

No servers have been added, save three Oceania servers, since 12/20/2011.   Server-hours are now over 50% LIGHT during weekend play.  That's peak play and a doubling of this negative measurement (25% to 50%).     Server hours are now just 3% heavy on weekends (during peak playtime), down from 30% heavy on January 8th.   That's 1/10th the 'heavy status' hours of January 8th.

 

So a doubling of time spent in light (under 450 players) and one-tenth the time spent in heavy...   And you're saying SWTOR growing?   Face the facts.   Just face 'em.   Make your peace with the upcoming server mergers and stop pretending this game is an unqualified success.   It's not.

 

The only thing SWTOR is better at is contracting.    It's crashing and burning at a  much faster rate than WoW...

 

Sever stats on websites dont mean anything.  All that matters is players in game.   The wow leveling zones are deserted while the SWTOR leveling zones, at least on my server are bustling.

Server stats mean nothing compared to your personal experience? And you have the audactiy to claim that other people are biased when they disagree with you?

  gu357u53r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 117

3/25/12 1:53:09 PM#45
Originally posted by RefMinor
However, I would rather have a glass that leaked 10ml a minute that was filled by 9ml a minute (WoW) than one that leaked 50ml a minute but was filled with 20ml a minute (SWTOR)

I would rather have a glass that never leaked to begin with.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

3/25/12 1:53:10 PM#46
Originally posted by jtcgs

it does not make a difference if 500 million people are playing a game.

If the game is shallow, lacking in depth and has poorly implimented ideas...the entire planet can be playing it and wont make it even a little bit better.

Seriously...go log into hello kitty online and play it alone...then have 30 of your friends log in and play with them and come back here and tell me that hello kitty online is actually a good game with the right people playing it.

 

Yeah...thats what I thought.

 

Hello Kitty Online never recovered from the removal of FFA full loot PvP with permadeath in my opinion. Doesn't matter how mny people ply with you these days you can't bring back that rush.
  blackweb

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/11
Posts: 15

 
OP  3/25/12 1:54:22 PM#47
Originally posted by sicness277

Server stats mean nothing compared to your personal experience? And you have the audactiy to claim that other people are biased when they disagree with you?

Please read before you post.  When sever stats disagree with what I see in game, yes, they mean nothing.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

3/25/12 1:54:42 PM#48
Originally posted by gu357u53r
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by gu357u53r
Originally posted by sicness277

Again though, while they are facts they're hardly conclusive enough to make the claims that you're making. If you want to actually have a more definitive result then you must do much more research than random recruiting information from 2 servers.

Your entire 'research' is the problem here. You think it's enough to make a valid conclusion that SWTOR is doing better than WoW when it's not even remotely close. You would need to do much more, unbiased, research.

The facts may support your point of view, but they hardly define it in the way you're trying to claim.

You failed to read his original post it is easy to come to the conclusion that his information has a valid claim, and proves his point. Without players, where is the game?

Originally posted by blackweb

Why are starting zone numbers so important to MMORPG viability?  Because without new players it is very difficult for guilds to recruit and form new guilds or replace losses due to attrition in existing guilds.   New blood is the key to guild and MMORPG viability.

 

However, I would rather have a glass that leaked 10ml a minute that was filled by 9ml a minute (WoW) than one that leaked 50ml a minute but was filled with 20ml a minute (SWTOR)

I would rather have a glass that never leaked to begin with.

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.
  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

3/25/12 1:56:30 PM#49
Originally posted by blackweb
Originally posted by sicness277

Server stats mean nothing compared to your personal experience? And you have the audactiy to claim that other people are biased when they disagree with you?

Please read before you post.  When sever stats disagree with what I see in game, yes, they mean nothing.

You do realize there's more than the one server you play on don't you?

Server stats are actual proof here, while your opinion of the game is going to be viewed from an extremely narrow point of view, yet you still claim that those stats are wrong and you're right?

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

3/25/12 1:58:59 PM#50
Originally posted by blackweb
Originally posted by sicness277

Server stats mean nothing compared to your personal experience? And you have the audactiy to claim that other people are biased when they disagree with you?

Please read before you post.  When sever stats disagree with what I see in game, yes, they mean nothing.

 

http://www.torstatus.net/ven-zallow/history/7d#!/ven-zallow/trends/60d

 

Here's the server stats for your particular server, it used to get to heavy, feel free, bury your head in the sand, just don't expect to be taken seriously.
  blackweb

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/11
Posts: 15

 
OP  3/25/12 1:59:00 PM#51
Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

WoW does not have anywhere near 10 million paying subscribers.   WoW lost 2 million subs in 2011 alone.     Activision blizzard reported their first loss ever in 4th qtr 2011 due primarily to the loss of wow subs.Most subscribers are outside of EU and NA and pay much less to play than those in EU and NA do.   WoW is down to 2-3 million in EU and NA combined, if that.   WoW is no longer the behemoth it once was.

  gu357u53r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 117

3/25/12 1:59:09 PM#52
Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

If your game is great, people will play.  If not they won't.  It happens all the time, things fail.  I would rather have a glass that didn't leak though.  The best you get with your analogy is a game that doesn't want players.  If it can't hold water, why should I play it?

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

3/25/12 2:00:51 PM#53
Originally posted by blackweb
Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

WoW does not have anywhere near 10 million paying subscribers.   WoW lost 2 million subs in 2011 alone.     Activision blizzard reported their first loss ever in 4th qtr 2011 due primarily to the loss of wow subs.Most subscribers are outside of EU and NA and pay much less to play than those in EU and NA do.   WoW is down to 2-3 million in EU and NA combined, if that.   WoW is no longer the behemoth it once was.

 

I never claimed it was, it was an analogy, making the assumption that WoW was the best case scenario any new MMO could get, the main point was that the glass would always leak no matter how well the MMO was doing.
  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

3/25/12 2:01:38 PM#54
Originally posted by blackweb
Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

WoW does not have anywhere near 10 million paying subscribers.   WoW lost 2 million subs in 2011 alone.     Activision blizzard reported their first loss ever in 4th qtr 2011 due primarily to the loss of wow subs.Most subscribers are outside of EU and NA and pay much less to play than those in EU and NA do.   WoW is down to 2-3 million in EU and NA combined, if that.   WoW is no longer the behemoth it once was.

Blizzard cannot lie about their sub numbers, which they reported for Q4 at still being over 10 million. Again, your narrow point of view does not mean the actual facts are wrong.

 

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

3/25/12 2:04:51 PM#55
Originally posted by gu357u53r
Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

If your game is great, people will play.  If not they won't.  It happens all the time, things fail.  I would rather have a glass that didn't leak though.  The best you get with your analogy is a game that doesn't want players.  If it can't hold water, why should I play it?

 

The only way the glass doesn't leak is if the game is compulsory to play by law and strictly enforced, some will always be leaving because they tried and didn't like it, boredom after playing for so long etc.
  Kanester

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 345

3/25/12 2:06:36 PM#56
Originally posted by Damon

I think there is a design flaw in SW:TOR.  The zones are planets.  On top of this, the fleet is the hub of social interaction.  So, most players do not intereact with new players and the starting areas are empty.  In contrast, WoW has starting areas just outside the major cities.  I think it is important to have starting areas around major hubs, then have the content designed to be progressively difficult the further you venture away from the hub.

Spot on, One of the reason I couldn't stand to play SWTOR anymore, At 50 it basicly becomes a lobby game. Depressing.

  huntard

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 136

3/25/12 2:07:37 PM#57

LOL! .. ok so has SWTOR taken some subscribers from WoW sure, will it EVER have the subscription base WoW currently has NO! .. about all it can do it continue on its path and hope its still around in a few years.

WoW is a phenomenon in the MMORPG world, the chances of another WoW EVER coming along are slim, and the chances of SWTOR becoming WoW just wont happen, at the end of the day .. if you like SWTOR play it, if you like WoW play that or both but really? Who cares!

Like it or not, WoW is still the 800lbs gorilla in the MMORPG industry a title that will not be taken any time soon.

as for me, i enjoy both games.

 

  gu357u53r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 117

3/25/12 2:11:02 PM#58
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by gu357u53r
Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

If your game is great, people will play.  If not they won't.  It happens all the time, things fail.  I would rather have a glass that didn't leak though.  The best you get with your analogy is a game that doesn't want players.  If it can't hold water, why should I play it?

 

The only way the glass doesn't leak is if the game is compulsory to play by law and strictly enforced, some will always be leaving because they tried and didn't like it, boredom after playing for so long etc.

When I say game I ultimately mean online multiplayer game.  Would you go buy Unreal Tournament 3 right now just to be able to play online?  You might, since you can still also play it you might not have players in the server, but you can try to find some with less of a hassle beyond just the price of the game.  There is no leaking here, when you add a subscription you have started the never ending leak.  Once you stop subscribing, you can no longer inhabit the world which is what makes online multiplayer games work.  So again I will say,  Without players, where is the game?

  Epicent

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 670

Die clickers Die!!!

3/25/12 2:13:54 PM#59

This post is ridiculous. You can get out of starter areas in wow in literally an hour or 2. Even quicker with boas. Plus the game is over 7 years old. This post makes me laugh.

  gu357u53r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 117

3/25/12 2:17:31 PM#60
Originally posted by Epicent

This post is ridiculous. You can get out of starter areas in wow in literally an hour or 2. Even quicker with boas. Plus the game is over 7 years old. This post makes me laugh.

He is trying to prove a point, this isn't just about WoW.  It is about the flaw that current MMORPGs are facing.  Why would you want to play the starter area if it is just you, and only you doing it?  I thought these where online multiplayer games that require player interaction to work.

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