http://i.imgur.com/VIrYg.png

This perfectlly illustrated the different currencies in Guild Wars 2 and how to obtain them.

And to all those still don't understand the Gem system. Just do yourself a favor and educate yourself by reading the below Linked article.

http://www.thetyrianorder.com/home/m/2850070/article/638922

No one is confused, some who claim it's p2w actually know it isn''t but are doing because of the fact it isn't from what's [known].

Gems aren't limited to vanity items.  They are also used in convenience items as stated by Arenanet.  What that actually means we don't know.  Convenience items could be potions that boost the rate of other currencies (like karma or glory for example) which in turn boosts the rate at which you acquire upgrades.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Gems aren't limited to vanity items.  They are also used in convenience items as stated by Arenanet.  What that actually means we don't know.  Convenience items could be potions that boost the rate of other currencies (like karma or glory for example) which in turn boosts the rate at which you acquire upgrades.

OK, so let's just for a moment assume that's the case.

Bob Paytowin whips out his gold card and buys an item that gives him +20% Karma for the rest of his life (and for the record, that's pretty optimistic, I doubt any item like this would actually be useable for more than a few days)

So let's say he has that item, and it takes a normal, unbuffed player 20 days of normal farming to get the top-line karma gear. Bob uses his ubernifty cash shop item to get that item in...wait for it...16 days. For 4 entire days, he might be better geared than you. The horror.

This chart lacks 1 or 2 nodes and a few arrows so it's not a good way to demonstrate the system. We have to know what exactly ANet will sell in Item Shop.

Originally posted by RizelStar

No one is confused, some who claim it's p2w actually know it isn''t but are doing because of the fact it isn't from what's [known].

The way I look at it is, the people who are skeptical, are skeptical due to the wording used. Just look at the clarification of it by A-net. "it doesn't matter if we sell a +10 sword of badassery, because you can also earn it in game". -paraphrased.. (I'm aware that's not the wording used, but that is how it will read to many)

This completely opens the door for items of power being available in the cash shop. People who have a problem with cash-shops are definitely not going to be happy about that, and it is their right to feel that way.

Is it hard to understand why people who feel rewards should be earned by playing the game, feel that way? Is it really that hard to understand?

You can disagree, that's also understandable. However your response here is not. As it hints at despisement of those who feel that way.

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Gems aren't limited to vanity items.  They are also used in convenience items as stated by Arenanet.  What that actually means we don't know.  Convenience items could be potions that boost the rate of other currencies (like karma or glory for example) which in turn boosts the rate at which you acquire upgrades.

OK, so let's just for a moment assume that's the case.

 

Bob Paytowin whips out his gold card and buys an item that gives him +20% Karma for the rest of his life (and for the record, that's pretty optimistic, I doubt any item like this would actually be useable for more than a few days)

 

So let's say he has that item, and it takes a normal, unbuffed player 20 days of normal farming to get the top-line karma gear. Bob uses his ubernifty cash shop item to get that item in...wait for it...16 days. For 4 entire days, he might be better geared than you. The horror.

What's to stop them from making the boost +100%?  How about +200%?  +500%?  What about if they made the karma gain extremely slow and it now takes 300 days of normal farming to get top of the line gear?  It's a fine line here.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Gems aren't limited to vanity items.  They are also used in convenience items as stated by Arenanet.  What that actually means we don't know.  Convenience items could be potions that boost the rate of other currencies (like karma or glory for example) which in turn boosts the rate at which you acquire upgrades.

OK, so let's just for a moment assume that's the case.

 

Bob Paytowin whips out his gold card and buys an item that gives him +20% Karma for the rest of his life (and for the record, that's pretty optimistic, I doubt any item like this would actually be useable for more than a few days)

 

So let's say he has that item, and it takes a normal, unbuffed player 20 days of normal farming to get the top-line karma gear. Bob uses his ubernifty cash shop item to get that item in...wait for it...16 days. For 4 entire days, he might be better geared than you. The horror.

What's to stop them from making the boost +100%?  How about +200%?  +500%?  What about if they made the karma gain extremely slow and it now takes 300 days of normal farming to get top of the line gear?  It's a fine line here.

OMG, what if the bonus jsut gives you max level and a full set of gear for 100 bucks?

All kidding aside, I get your point. Until we see the items in the shop, AND get a feel for how karma/influence progression work, there's no way to know whether there's that big a difference. Historically speaking, games like this don't tend to offer THAT big a boost, at least not for more than a couple days usage. Which meas a paying player might get an edge on time, but is really unlikely to be spending years dominating the field while everyone else catches up.

Also, again, WvW isn't about individual combat so much as teamwork and resource capping from what we're being told. If that's the case, it's not gonna serve the paying player taht much in the end. They get to spend less time grinding, but they're still limited by the world around them. They get a little buff, feel like they got something nice for their money, but it doesn't hurt other players' enjoyment of  the game. Or at least that seems to be the philosophy we're hearing. We'll see.

Originally posted by Distopia

Is it hard to understand why people who feel rewards should be earned by playing the game, feel that way? Is it really that hard to understand?

 

If we look at the items from the DD/CE and put them in the context of GW:

Tome of Influence - 'useful for unlocking guild vaults, emblems and other items for your guild'... PvE/PvP relevance, though if it's anything like GW's, *most* guild facilities could be supplanted by just going to a capital city. If you're anywhere remotely near competitive PvP, it seems like this would be taken care of in short order. Guild vault sounds like the most valuable perk and I suspect it wouldn't be overly difficult to get through standard gameplay, even if you were just sharing with one other person.

Chalice of Glory - 'unlock rewards in PvP'... sounds like an equivalent to the PvP packs, where you could open up skills and equipment for PvP. Of primary relevance for people who want to jump right into competition play. Does not effect PvE players whatsoever. (Economic effects withheld.) Certainly not a P2W element, though it does save a considerable amount of time unlocking skills. (That accursed elite in the Shiverpeaks... most annoying spawn ever.)

Golem Banker - 'account storage from anywhere'... PvE only. This falls squarely into the realm of paying for time saving and convenience. Probably means you might need to cut short a farming trip, or make a second run if you forgot something for a quest. The only one of the three I'd consider to be of value as it has a direct influence on active gameplay, but to each their own.

Originally posted by terrant

OMG, what if the bonus jsut gives you max level and a full set of gear for 100 bucks?

[End quote. I can't seem to break out of this box...]

In terms of GW? I'd be kind of disappointed by that. It takes like, two hours to hit that alone in Factions if you know what you're doing. =P

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by RizelStar

No one is confused, some who claim it's p2w actually know it isn''t but are doing because of the fact it isn't from what's [known].

The way I look at it is, the people who are skeptical, are skeptical due to the wording used. Just look at the clarification of it by A-net. "it doesn't matter if we sell a +10 sword of badassery, because you can also earn it in game". -paraphrased.. (I'm aware that's not the wording used, but that is how it will read to many)

This completely opens the door for items of power being available in the cash shop. People who have a problem with cash-shops are definitely not going to be happy about that, and it is their right to feel that way.

Is it hard to understand why people who feel rewards should be earned by playing the game, feel that way? Is it really that hard to understand?

You can disagree, that's also understandable. However your response here is not. As it hints at despisement of those who feel that way.

 

Originally posted by RizelStar

 

 

No I don't disagree you have a point Distopia, you right and I was wrong, but there is in fact a few because I've seen it atleast once in all these posts about the subject, there is a few people who actually understand the deal but insist on keep making it out of nothing. See I'd see if one is skeptic but when one state that for in fact they are doing p2w , when from what we literally know now it isn't until done. If they do then yes it will be, but they'd have to sell power items, supply bundles and etc. stuff that would make you win a each thing they put in game which as of right now can't be done. Some know that but once again choose to bring worries to others who don't understand time will tell and then they go ahead and make a thread about how the sky is falling, this happened towards the beginning of the first thread created on micotransactions. The main ones are still posting and trying to make nothing into something. We know they said convience and vanity items. Shoot see but atleast we all understand that we should wait, either go with what been shown and known or wait but by the mean time we got those who are literally giving out false ingo and we already got one in this very thread. Then we have those skeptics fall back on that misinformation. But again your right I went overboard I'm gonna admit that and yea in a sense I was wrong but I'm not gonna pretend there are people not doing what I just said because I've literally witness just that lol.

I understand what you're saying, as I've seen it as well, but not in excess. And I think a lot of it has to do with people understanding what's going on here. A-net is testing the water so to speak. Most studios do this when they're introducing cash shops into a game. They don't just throw it all up for everyone to see and judge, they start slow, using vague staments to gauge reactions to those statements, to see just how far they can go before feedback reaches the boiling point.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by RizelStar

No one is confused, some who claim it's p2w actually know it isn''t but are doing because of the fact it isn't from what's [known].

The way I look at it is, the people who are skeptical, are skeptical due to the wording used. Just look at the clarification of it by A-net. "it doesn't matter if we sell a +10 sword of badassery, because you can also earn it in game". -paraphrased.. (I'm aware that's not the wording used, but that is how it will read to many)

This completely opens the door for items of power being available in the cash shop. People who have a problem with cash-shops are definitely not going to be happy about that, and it is their right to feel that way.

Is it hard to understand why people who feel rewards should be earned by playing the game, feel that way? Is it really that hard to understand?

You can disagree, that's also understandable. However your response here is not. As it hints at despisement of those who feel that way.

 

Personally I think it's completely reasonable to be skeptical. But whenever any sort of comment or anouncement is made regarding the cash shop, for every reasonable post that amounts to "this makes me a little nervous and I am currently skeptical as to how this will all turn out," there are 20 more posts that basically come down to "OMG how stupid, I can't believe they made this game 100% P2W, I'm not buying this crap now."

Given what we currently know, the latter response is simply not reasonable at all.

The problem is, people just do not know and as much as Anet explained, they were not absolute enough to quell the fears of the skeptics. I count myself among them. As long as the game is fun to play, though, I don't care. If they make the karma so hard to get, you want to buy items that will increase the rate it is earned, then we have a problem. But there are just too many variables that have not been cleared up yet to be sure.

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by RizelStar

No one is confused, some who claim it's p2w actually know it isn''t but are doing because of the fact it isn't from what's [known].

The way I look at it is, the people who are skeptical, are skeptical due to the wording used. Just look at the clarification of it by A-net. "it doesn't matter if we sell a +10 sword of badassery, because you can also earn it in game". -paraphrased.. (I'm aware that's not the wording used, but that is how it will read to many)

This completely opens the door for items of power being available in the cash shop. People who have a problem with cash-shops are definitely not going to be happy about that, and it is their right to feel that way.

Is it hard to understand why people who feel rewards should be earned by playing the game, feel that way? Is it really that hard to understand?

You can disagree, that's also understandable. However your response here is not. As it hints at despisement of those who feel that way.

 

Personally I think it's completely reasonable to be skeptical. But whenever any sort of comment or anouncement is made regarding the cash shop, for every reasonable post that amounts to "this makes me a little nervous and I am currently skeptical as to how this will all turn out," there are 20 more posts that basically come down to "OMG how stupid, I can't believe they made this game 100% P2W, I'm not buying this crap now."

 

Given what we currently know, the latter response is simply not reasonable at all.

I agree..

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

"Pay to win" is a sensitive subject and people have very different definitions of what it means. I really don't like any form of RMT beyond cosmetic items and I consider anything beyond cosmetic items in cash shops to be pay to win. There are varying degrees of pay to win ofcourse and we don't know for sure where GW2 will end up on that scale. Since I don't like any form of pay to win I voice my dislike about it, this is the first thing about GW2 I feel strongly against and it's not gamebreaking for me unless it turns out to be a severe form of pay to win.

I would prefer a monthly fee to any form of RMT power items, it's not that I'm not willing to pay more money if the game is good.

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

I guess it all depends on who you ask???  I myself could care less, as I am playing it with a few friends and for our enjoyment.  I really don't care who has UBER gear so to speak, too many games lose their fun because of the "keeping up with the Jones" issue.

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

Ding ding ding....we have a winner.  

Fun thing is, no one went gonzo over this issue when they announced they were going to have a cash shop.  You know....when they pretty much announced the game itself.  Its always been a given. 

P2W has been slammed by Anet, they've claimed it should NEVER be done, and it was never done in GW1. 

So why the worry now?  Now there are some possible issues to be discussed regarding the gem system itself.  Not dire ones as far as Im concerned but they exist.  But the worry over GW2 being P2W is kind of out there.  Its like worrying your house is going to explode with no viable reason to possibly think so. 

Id go as far to say its tin foil hat paranoia.