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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Mike O'Brien (ArenaNet founder) on microtransactions

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656 posts found
  Fozzik

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/03
Posts: 543

3/21/12 7:28:40 AM#581


Originally posted by Bunks
Well tangent, your skepticism is a wise thing, because I for one never trust a bean counter when he sees an opportunity to make free money. After all, corporations are nothing more than a created sociopathic entity, bent on making as much money by providing the least amount of effort.
 
That said, the reason why this system seems almost brilliant in nature, is that they have made two seperate tiers of currency and one tangible currency, and have allowed for no derivitive creation currency. (ie casino chips)
You have a lesser currency, gold. Then you have the tangible currencies (gems & cash shop items) , and then you have the premium currencies, Kharma, Glory, Tokens.
 
In essence, you have hard cash, IOU's, and commodities. It is a well  designed system if you ask me.

They sell glory in the collector's edition, and it's a "boost" item...so my guess is that they will be selling glory boosts in the cash shop and calling them "convenience" items.

So Glory won't be an insulated currency. Hopefully karma and tokens will. I'm also hoping their will be no-trade crafting mats which allow players to craft no-trade items.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1997

3/21/12 7:33:42 AM#582
Originally posted by Fozzik

 


Originally posted by Madimorga
In WvWvW a level 1 gets a bolster but does not have all her skills, correct?  Also gear stats do affect players, so in WvWvW (unlike in the small battlegrounds) gear does matter, at least while players are leveling and until they have the best possible level 80 gear (regardless of how easy or difficult that gear is to obtain once a player does reach cap).   Correct?
 
If both of these are correct then the amount of advantage a level 70-80 in the best gear possible has over a level 1 in standard gear determines how much advantage xp pots and gold for BiS gear matters in WvWvW.  PvP is exactly where gold purchased with diamonds bought for real money must NOT matter.  If it matters, even a little, there is a problem.

 

 


 

The proponents of the system explain this away by saying that the advantages in WvW will be small, or that it's easy to gain the same things by playing. They also claim that because it's only temporary advantage, it's okay.

To me, the 100+ hours from level 1 to cap is a pretty long time...it's a lot of game play to be playing at a disadvantage.

Yes.  They try to explain it away, but they can't, because a small advantage is still an advantage.  A pvp guild of 50 with each player having a small advantage is going to really have an impact.  And your second point applies as well.

 

I don't like this sytem, I'm not happy about its implementation.  But if I buy the game anyway, I'm going to play the hell out of the gold and diamond acquisition minigame, going with option #3 on my list for max challenge.  Since they want to introduce this, I intend to see how well I can work this system.  I'm not going to be one of those stereotypical Westerners catering to RMT and buying other players their DLC for them.  I could do that, but as a point of pride, I'll get other people to pay for mine instead.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1458

3/21/12 7:34:52 AM#583
Originally posted by Kuppa

key take away:

"Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who don’t."

Then you guys failed at your own philosophy.

  sadeyx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1570

3/21/12 7:35:54 AM#584
Originally posted by Fozzik
 THOSE things will be the ones that mean something, and have value worth playing for.

 

You say that, but will it?

Arenanet are, in my mind, the experts at "saying" one thing and "doing" another.

I am still very sore about Alliance battles,  Instead of GvG we were led to beleive we'd be getting AvA, which turned out to be just a larger Random arena's

Arenanet strung us along like that with so many things, I was properly obsessed with GW, I attended all Gail Grey stuff and followed every word... it all turn out to be disapointment after disapointment.

I wont be fooled again by them.

 

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

3/21/12 7:37:13 AM#585
Originally posted by Fozzik

They sell glory in the collector's edition, and it's a "boost" item...so my guess is that they will be selling glory boosts in the cash shop and calling them "convenience" items.

So Glory won't be an insulated currency. Hopefully karma and tokens will. I'm also hoping their will be no-trade crafting mats which allow players to craft no-trade items.

Glory is a currency for cosmetic items, not convenience, so that's pretty boring.

Influence boosters are the more interesting thing, since those could actually be turned into a tangible advantage in WvW in theory, but in practical application those are normalized as well since they are capped on spending.

 

Why is it desirable to make crafting items non-tradeable?

  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 1979

3/21/12 7:38:46 AM#586
Originally posted by sadeyx

Part of the fun of Guildwars was acquiring the unique looking items

 

If now everyone can just purchase those unique looking items without ever having to lift a finger then it removes the apeal of even posessing those items.

 

You see someone with unique armor and all you see is someone who has paid for it, you dont see someone who has played the game hard for it.

This is a fairly sizable misconception.  Let me use the original as an example.  Every year, GW hosted a party for the Chinese new year.  Each year a new minipet based on the animal was released.  That was the only way to acquire them.  Those items now have REAL trade value precisely because newer players missed out.  Same for the hats during this period.  Later on, they added special looking armors to the store.  These too were limited in time.  People bought them to look cool hanging in Kamadan.  No other reason.  No stats.  Just looks.  But because ANET made them limited time, those people with armor from 2 years ago peacock around in it because most people who would have bought it had cycled through.

 

That being said there will always be the group who wants the best armor to be only available by Raiders.  There will always be tons more people who don't care to Raid but would like to atleast see the content.  There are those that'll rush through to max level and quit because there "wasn't enough content".  When I see gear earned or bought, if it looks good I stop for a second and notice.

And I truly TRULY believe that we are all discussing hopes and dreams until we see the content on the cash shop.  No amount of whining will stop this from being put in.  But I will be making the best of the situation by trying to have a little bit of control towards the outcome.

SWTOR: F2P or Premium? Want Galactic Strongholds early? http://www.swtor.com/r/LbMdN7 Use the referral for 7 days of subscriber access. Unlock your GS today!

  Fozzik

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/03
Posts: 543

3/21/12 7:42:57 AM#587

@ Naqaj

I was talking about items which would have in-game value apart from the cash shop economy...things that would have value because of the game play investment required to get them. Status or prestige type items, which a lot of people do enjoy acquiring and taking pride in.


Since there won't be any statistical advantage, these status items will be the only thing with communally understood value for players to strive for. Everything else will be easy and meaningless in the context of the game since it can be bought for cash and no play investment at all.


In those terms, it would be nice if there were at least SOME things you could craft that wouldn't be totally worthless in the eyes of the community because they can be bought for real world cash. Items you could craft and wear which would indicate your achievements in the game.

  Bunks

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 987

3/21/12 7:44:07 AM#588
Originally posted by Fozzik

 


Originally posted by Bunks
Well tangent, your skepticism is a wise thing, because I for one never trust a bean counter when he sees an opportunity to make free money. After all, corporations are nothing more than a created sociopathic entity, bent on making as much money by providing the least amount of effort.
 
That said, the reason why this system seems almost brilliant in nature, is that they have made two seperate tiers of currency and one tangible currency, and have allowed for no derivitive creation currency. (ie casino chips)
You have a lesser currency, gold. Then you have the tangible currencies (gems & cash shop items) , and then you have the premium currencies, Kharma, Glory, Tokens.
 
In essence, you have hard cash, IOU's, and commodities. It is a well  designed system if you ask me.


 

They sell glory in the collector's edition, and it's a "boost" item...so my guess is that they will be selling glory boosts in the cash shop and calling them "convenience" items.

So Glory won't be an insulated currency. Hopefully karma and tokens will. I'm also hoping their will be no-trade crafting mats which allow players to craft no-trade items.

XP boosts aren't an advantage anymore than the mobile bank is. They are conviences to time. But saved time doesn't really provide much advantage because it limits the real advantages in actual game time played. Ie skill points need to be gathered, skill bars need to be unlocke ect...

The only item that troubles me is the Elite skill (wolves) in the CE version. Elites skills are not unlocked for players till much later levels. If this skill is allowed to be used by players on day one, THAT IS A FREAKING ADVANTAGE, that can only be bought with cash.

So I wait to see how that unfolds.

  Fozzik

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/03
Posts: 543

3/21/12 7:47:46 AM#589


Originally posted by Bunks


Originally posted by Fozzik
 



Originally posted by Bunks
Well tangent, your skepticism is a wise thing, because I for one never trust a bean counter when he sees an opportunity to make free money. After all, corporations are nothing more than a created sociopathic entity, bent on making as much money by providing the least amount of effort.
 
That said, the reason why this system seems almost brilliant in nature, is that they have made two seperate tiers of currency and one tangible currency, and have allowed for no derivitive creation currency. (ie casino chips)
You have a lesser currency, gold. Then you have the tangible currencies (gems & cash shop items) , and then you have the premium currencies, Kharma, Glory, Tokens.
 
In essence, you have hard cash, IOU's, and commodities. It is a well  designed system if you ask me.



 
They sell glory in the collector's edition, and it's a "boost" item...so my guess is that they will be selling glory boosts in the cash shop and calling them "convenience" items.
So Glory won't be an insulated currency. Hopefully karma and tokens will. I'm also hoping their will be no-trade crafting mats which allow players to craft no-trade items.


XP boosts aren't an advantage anymore than the mobile bank is. They are conviences to time. But saved time doesn't really provide much advantage because it limits the real advantages in actual game time played. Ie skill points need to be gathered, skill bars need to be unlocke ect...
The only item that troubles me is the Elite skill (wolves) in the CE version. Elites skills are not unlocked for players till much later levels. If this skill is allowed to be used by players on day one, THAT IS A FREAKING ADVANTAGE, that can only be bought with cash.
So I wait to see how that unfolds.

Based on the precedent of that elite skill they are selling, it's quite possible that they may sell skills or trait points in the cash shop and just call those "time-savers" too.

The truth is, they could literally bypass all potential advancement and acquisition in the game and call it all "time-savers", except for the things which are no-trade.

  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 1979

3/21/12 7:47:50 AM#590
Originally posted by Bunks

The only item that troubles me is the Elite skill (wolves) in the CE version. Elites skills are not unlocked for players till much later levels. If this skill is allowed to be used by players on day one, THAT IS A FREAKING ADVANTAGE, that can only be bought with cash.

So I wait to see how that unfolds.

Reportedly this skill is not available for PvP to my knowledge.

SWTOR: F2P or Premium? Want Galactic Strongholds early? http://www.swtor.com/r/LbMdN7 Use the referral for 7 days of subscriber access. Unlock your GS today!

  sadeyx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1570

3/21/12 7:49:40 AM#591
Originally posted by Ikeda

And I truly TRULY believe that we are all discussing hopes and dreams until we see the content on the cash shop. 

Wise words indeed sir.

As I said in a previous post, Arenanet are masters of this.  Hyping something up, and it turning out to be false or different.

You could also say they are the worst company in the world for 'managing expectations'

They simply LOVE for people to get all wild imaginations, dreams and hopes.  Its part of the way they do things, they feed of hype. 

And even then, they have no problem with turning back on their word and changing something.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

3/21/12 7:54:07 AM#592
Originally posted by Bunks

The only item that troubles me is the Elite skill (wolves) in the CE version. Elites skills are not unlocked for players till much later levels. If this skill is allowed to be used by players on day one, THAT IS A FREAKING ADVANTAGE, that can only be bought with cash.

Except of course that the skill slot to put that skill in doesn't unlock until level 30. So the only advantage you get for that money is a super cool elite skill to look at in your skill window while you're leveling to 30 :)

  Bunks

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 987

3/21/12 8:05:20 AM#593
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by Bunks

The only item that troubles me is the Elite skill (wolves) in the CE version. Elites skills are not unlocked for players till much later levels. If this skill is allowed to be used by players on day one, THAT IS A FREAKING ADVANTAGE, that can only be bought with cash.

Except of course that the skill slot to put that skill in doesn't unlock until level 30. So the only advantage you get for that money is a super cool elite skill to look at in your skill window while you're leveling to 30 :)

Is this a fact now? I have yet to see it adressed.

  minttunator

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/09
Posts: 132

3/21/12 8:05:23 AM#594
Originally posted by TangentPoint

In my experience, the wealth itself isn't where the problem lies. It's in the ability to get the gear that others deem necessary for you to be part of their little clique/club. This is why I hope when they say there will be no game-affecting items in their cash shop, that ANet isn't just playing semantics or dancing around the facts; basically what other developers do.

Brilliant post! I must say, however, that while wealth itself might not be a problem, buying items for said wealth might very well be. Anet selling advantages in the cash shop is only 50% of the potential problem - the other half is players being able to buy advantages in-game with gold. Since real money = gold (through money --> gems --> gold) this would transitively mean buying advantages for real money, which, for me, is the very definition of pay 2 win. 

There is, of course, the possibility that we won't be able to buy anything useful for gold, which would eliminate that aspect of the whole conundrum, but it would also make gold effectively worthless for anything other than buying gems - and that doesn't bode well for the game economy. 

  Foncl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 186

3/21/12 8:14:21 AM#595

I would much prefer a monthly fee over this. What you have in the game should reflect what you have accomplished in the game imo, vanity items are ok though.  Anything that can be bought for gold loses alot of the sense of accomplishment for people who put in the effort to obtain it with this system, I've played EvE and I don't like PLEX either.

Please offer servers with a monthly fee and no RMT Arenanet, I'm sure there is a demand for it.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

3/21/12 8:16:56 AM#596
Originally posted by Foncl

I would much prefer a monthly fee over this. What you have in the game should reflect what you have accomplished in the game imo, vanity items are ok though.  Anything that can be bought for gold loses alot the sense of accomplishment for people who put in the effort to obtain it with this system, I play EvE and I don't like PLEX either.

Please offer servers with a monthly fee and no RMT Arenanet, I'm sure there is a demand for it.

Who cares what other people do, play it your way. I don t see the big deal about this. If this game was like a WOW treadmill, then sure, but it s not.

  Lambon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/08
Posts: 52

3/21/12 8:17:08 AM#597

Wow.

What the hell happened to earning things in game? Isn't the point of playing video games fun via rewards? If people are allowed to purchase the reward; doesn't that defeat the ENTIRE purpose of the game? All you have to do is pull out your wallet and you can unlock that extra content......terrible.

 

 

  Bunks

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 987

3/21/12 8:17:54 AM#598
Originally posted by Foncl

I would much prefer a monthly fee over this. What you have in the game should reflect what you have accomplished in the game imo, vanity items are ok though.  Anything that can be bought for gold loses alot the sense of accomplishment for people who put in the effort to obtain it with this system, I play EvE and I don't like PLEX either.

Please offer servers with a monthly fee and no RMT Arenanet, I'm sure there is a demand for it.

You left out one important part of your logic equation. All games like you describe already have gold farmers , who in turn sell it to "p2w" players. So the system exists already in every game. Anet has diminished gold farming, and at the same time, made gold a second tier currency.

The only currency that impacts game play in a competitive way, is Kharma, Tokens, and unlocking skills. The only way to obtain those currencies is with game time played.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

3/21/12 8:19:19 AM#599
Originally posted by Lambon

Wow.

What the hell happened to earning things in game? Isn't the point of playing video games fun via rewards? If people are allowed to purchase the reward; doesn't that defeat the ENTIRE purpose of the game? All you have to do is pull out your wallet and you can unlock that extra content......terrible.

 

 

Like I just said. play it your way, who cares what anyone else does.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

3/21/12 8:19:47 AM#600
Originally posted by Bunks
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by Bunks

The only item that troubles me is the Elite skill (wolves) in the CE version. Elites skills are not unlocked for players till much later levels. If this skill is allowed to be used by players on day one, THAT IS A FREAKING ADVANTAGE, that can only be bought with cash.

Except of course that the skill slot to put that skill in doesn't unlock until level 30. So the only advantage you get for that money is a super cool elite skill to look at in your skill window while you're leveling to 30 :)

Is this a fact now? I have yet to see it adressed.

Fact is elite skills unlock at level 30.

Not a fact is that the bought elite skill ignores that.

 

Burden of proof is on the accuser :)

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