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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So ANET can't afford a forum? Why?

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247 posts found
  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/14/12 1:43:11 PM#121
Originally posted by demonic87

Official forums are the reason most games die. The people enjoying the game (the majority) are playing the game, and the people are are disgruntled about something run to the forums and ***** their heart out.

What happens then? Well I'll tell you what happens, the devs listen to them ,and the game turns to **** for everyone else.

 Lol...yeah...right. For a lot of these games if they would have pulled their heads out of their asses and paid attention to recurring themes on their forums long before the damage was done in cancelled subs many of those games would have been a lot better off.

Most of these companies don't pay attention to their forums worth a shit.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  marinrider

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 1574

3/14/12 1:43:14 PM#122
Originally posted by Dream_Chaser
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage
Can't edit on mobile but want to add that the vast majority if GW2 players will never know guru exists. That alone makes it an abysmal excuse for an official forum, and I could still come up with several other reasons why guru is abysmal.

Well, they could tell everyone about it. They could link it as a "Recommended Forum" as they did with Guild Wars.

And that's where I see it all falling apart...

The thousands of voices complaining about how ArenaNet told them to go to a forum where they can't even report bugs without a moderator leaping on them...

Yeah, this is going to end well.

So then report bugs in game?

  Muntz

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 280

3/14/12 1:43:47 PM#123
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage
Can't edit on mobile but want to add that the vast majority if GW2 players will never know guru exists. That alone makes it an abysmal excuse for an official forum, and I could still come up with several other reasons why guru is abysmal.

I'd say your trying too hard. It was never an issue with GW1 I doubt it's some kind of game breaker for GW2. I agree that it certainly will be an issue for those who can do a simple internet search. By the way guru isn't the only option, if it doesn't appeal to you find one that does. In many games I've found the fan developed sites to be more informative then the company hosted one but it could be just me. 

  Betakodo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 338

3/14/12 1:43:53 PM#124

They had an "Elite" forum list that the devs post on. Guild wars guru is one of them and they suck big time because they censor posts they disagree with. Exactly like the Chinese government does except Guru's power is limited to the forum. They pick out the posts they don't like and delete them, lock threads they disagree with and mods are free to act like trolls.

Use any forum but guru and they'll lose their "Elite" status from anet because they have to keep up a certain level of traffic.

  Khole

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 138

3/14/12 1:44:33 PM#125

Its a smart move not having forums. They are mostly filled with cries of op, this is too hard etc....

I'm sure they have a sytem to leave feedback and thats all you really need.

  ropenice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

3/14/12 1:45:13 PM#126
Originally posted by DarkPony

It's simply clever marketing tactics to have your fans go out and spread the gospel rather than contain them, in my opinion.

Also it saves several mod and IT positions and your devs won't be stimulated to waste time on answering "Genuine concerns", "Open letters to Anet", etc, etc. That's a lot of time, money and effort saved while you stimulate your word of mouth marketing by not keeping them to yourself at the same time.

If you look at how big the SWTOR forums were before launch (millions and millions of pageviews) and how much of the most zealous fans were "locked up" in there, there is some merrit to the tactic to have them spread out over multiple fansites, genre sites, etc. for the sake of word of mouth. At least pre-release.

You need to get inspired and come up with a new sig. MMORPG's not the same without a DP sig.

  Theonenoni

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 266

3/14/12 1:45:15 PM#127

If the devs over at blizzard listened to everything I have said in their "Official forums" I would be surprised. 

 

Anet can definitely afford an Official Forum but why would they need one when they have fansites that have forums?  The devs at Anet go to guildwars2guru  to give answers and look at questions.   Whats the point of a developer making a forum just to call it official?  Developers are people you know. They arent confined to only accessing Guild Wars 2 website. 

 

You sir OP, thought very little when making this thread because if you knew anything about Anet you would know that they look at fansites and forums on those fansites. 

-I am here to perform logic

  DJJazzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

3/14/12 1:47:19 PM#128
Originally posted by blondeh

maybe they cant deliver on their promise like every other mmo dev and wont be able to handle the onslaught of QQ's

Well the issue there is to find the signal amongst all of the noise. In my experience, actual useful criticism is about 5% of all the QQ posts that end up on official forums. Really most of the posts are just total opinionated bullshit.

 

And for those that keep repeating on where would they report bugs and such, there are already support forums. That is what they are used for.

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 532

3/14/12 1:56:12 PM#129
Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

The only problem with GW2G is that the moderators are kind of knee-jerk and quickfire when it comes to edits, deletes, and locking.

Honestly I've always thought that was one of the main reasons Anet didn't have an 'official' forum in the GW1 days. The fan sites could, and often were, be as draconian as they wished and Anet's hands were clean. Send Gaile Gray around to drop a tidbit every once in a while and watch the fan sites do your work for you. If an official forum was ever half as draconian as GWGuru could be there'd be hell to pay. But since it was a fan site Anet could shrug and say "Isn't us!".

Never really understood why people were mostly (the subject did come up with fair frequency) fine with this, but not surprised Anet is going down the same path again.

  User Deleted
3/14/12 1:58:08 PM#130

They are a game developer not a babystting service.

  DJJazzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

3/14/12 1:58:30 PM#131

well moderation is a fine line, someone will complain either way

  shane242

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 85

:(

3/14/12 1:59:33 PM#132

 

okay, forums..
 
Class forum - every single class is underpowered, every other class is OP. No matter what class forum you go to, its the same. Useful feedback that is.
 
Server forum - Flame, flame and more flame.
 
Support forum - Same questions repeatedly, though this is needed imo as issues getting the game running will loose users (non that the payment model is really effected right away)
 
PvE - I want better loot blah blah, X is to hard we can't down him but we are so uber pro
 
PvP - I lost, the game is broken and unbalanced, the one where you have to get the flag.. now what is it called again.. hmm?
 
at the end of the day the feedback is pretty unless to the devs, its a poor community, and a ongoing cost that's a waste.
 
Fan sites tend to have a much better community, unfortunately there isn't normally a need for them as the official forum is the place to be.

Dyslexia Warning: Grammar Trolls be gone

  User Deleted
3/14/12 2:02:40 PM#133

Given the sheer craziness on these forums i'd personally rather they continue with what they are doing right now since there seems to be a "my game's better then yours" forum wars going on in these forums which would explain the reaction you got OP from saying what you said in the title of this post. That they can't afford one. (even my ten year old nephew knows that's not true)

So, I'd rather have an in game means of sending them feedback about their game in a civilized manner and cut out all the nonsense that happens in these forums because as you can see from my signature it happens all too often, some fanboy of another game is going to go out of their way to say something negative and completely untrue of GW2 just to make it seem worse then it is. (this is opposed of course to the hours of footage, the documentation and the time the rest of us put into finding out the truth about these titles to make an informed decision and let others know about what we've found)

 

Oh and then there are the games that say they have open forums but censor like crazy just to keep people in their own game from pointing out how bad a game REALLY is instead of fixing the issues with a game and saying they are sorry for messing up, charging people for something that shouldn't have been released yet, and making the game as best a player experience they can possibly make their game. 

  User Deleted
 
OP  3/14/12 2:06:37 PM#134
Originally posted by shane242

 

okay, forums..
 

 
Fan sites tend to have a much better community, unfortunately there isn't normally a need for them as the official forum is the place to be.

Oh really.. i preffer to talk with some one who own the game instead of all random peoples.

Secondly.. fan sites got ads with viruses, fanatic mods, AND nothing tell me that devs will ever read my post.

  DJJazzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

3/14/12 2:08:44 PM#135
Originally posted by catplay
Originally posted by shane242

 

okay, forums..
 

 
Fan sites tend to have a much better community, unfortunately there isn't normally a need for them as the official forum is the place to be.

Oh really.. i preffer to talk with some one who own the game instead of all random peoples.

Secondly.. fan sites got ads with viruses, fanatic mods, AND nothing tell me that devs will ever read my post.

what makes you think they would read your posts on an official forum either? Unless it's on a support forum, your chances are slim to none.

  Rivalen

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 509

3/14/12 2:12:06 PM#136
Originally posted by catplay
Originally posted by shane242

 

okay, forums..
 

 
Fan sites tend to have a much better community, unfortunately there isn't normally a need for them as the official forum is the place to be.

Oh really.. i preffer to talk with some one who own the game instead of all random peoples.

Secondly.. fan sites got ads with viruses, fanatic mods, AND nothing tell me that devs will ever read my post.

They don't.

Send them an email, you don't have to throw forum tantrums with 100 other trolls to get your points across.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16453

3/14/12 2:14:05 PM#137
Originally posted by DJJazzy
Originally posted by catplay

Oh really.. i preffer to talk with some one who own the game instead of all random peoples.

Secondly.. fan sites got ads with viruses, fanatic mods, AND nothing tell me that devs will ever read my post.

what makes you think they would read your posts on an official forum either? Unless it's on a support forum, your chances are slim to none.

Funny enough did Strain spend a lot of times on fan forums when he was the head of ANET.

I have no clue about if Mike or Erik do the same though. But the uestion is how much actual devs ever read on a official forum, posts by them are rare in most cases, 9or none existing..

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

3/14/12 2:15:52 PM#138


Originally posted by Dream_Chaser
The only problem with GW2G is that the moderators are kind of knee-jerk and quickfire when it comes to edits, deletes, and locking. They're only dealing with a TINY community right now. I feel that needs to be stressed. Guild Wars 2 is likely going ot be thousands of times bigger than GW1, and they could potentially have millions of people pouring in there when the game goes live.

Now, consider the shortfalls of this... unstable approach to moderation. Let's say that someone reporting a bug has their thread deleted because a mod misread their post, and every time they try to repost, it gets deleted. And then the mod gets paranoid (and I have seen this happen on GW2G) and starts deleting all threads relating to that bug. They do have paranoid trips over there. I've seen it first hand, it's ugly.

Again, imagine this with a couple of million people posting. They'd lose control. Someone is bound to flip out in a really bad way, because, again, they have some control freaks there, people who get paranoid, people who shouldn't be moderating in the first place, people who don't have the right mindset for it.

When this blows up, and I can guarantee you that it will, it's going to be a PR disaster for ArenaNet.

That is why you need an official forum.

Consider this bit of easy to understand wisdom: A GW2G moderator isn't under contract, and most of them are volunteers and not being paid. Not only that, but these volunteer moderators are likely completely anonymous even to the GW2G staff. So they have no accountability and they require no real sense of responsibility. Nothing bad can happen to them if they flip a shit, other than being banned from GW2G. They can just get another name and keep going. But the damage to ArenaNet's reputation because of this would be irreparable.

GW2G is okay as a site, but their moderators just aren't prepared for the massive influx, and their moderation style does not fit a body of people that large. If ArenaNet doesn't get their own forum and leave the responsibility with GW2G, then... well, this is all going to go horribly, terribly wrong.


I want to emphasize all of this and add to it. Every time I look at GW2G (which is less and less now), I see several posts that are locked for one of these reasons:

"There isn't enough to discuss on this topic."
"It looks like everyone has already stated their opinions."
"This can be discussed in whatever mega thread where a different discussion is already taking place."

No thread locked in these or similar ways violate any rules, and yet all of the mods lock threads like this constantly. I would call that being a rogue moderator. They are disregarding rules and locking threads on their own whims. They are not "keeping the peace". They're treating the community like their own personal gardens and pruning away whatever threads they happen to not like the look of.


Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

Originally posted by Shroom_Mage
Can't edit on mobile but want to add that the vast majority if GW2 players will never know guru exists. That alone makes it an abysmal excuse for an official forum, and I could still come up with several other reasons why guru is abysmal.

Well, they could tell everyone about it. They could link it as a "Recommended Forum" as they did with Guild Wars.

And that's where I see it all falling apart...

The thousands of voices complaining about how ArenaNet told them to go to a forum where they can't even report bugs without a moderator leaping on them...

Yeah, this is going to end well.


Yeah... recommending GW2G would be the absolute worst move they could make in this situation.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  BlahTeeb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/09
Posts: 628

3/14/12 2:16:05 PM#139

When you don't have an official forum, you give way for a lot of other sites to foster a community. These communities then hold their own tournaments and events. This is still possible with an official forum, but it won't be as elaborate.

That has been their last "official" stance on official forums. MMO's with official forums generally have small communities outside their official game site.

Ever wonder why MMORPG.com has so many Guild Wars 2 fans? Because there is practically an unofficial official community here. Same place happens at all the other fan sites.

All this probably wouldn't happen if everyone just stuck to the official forums.

 

Now then, with that, if you follow other big games, you see that the developers who participate in the forums are usually the PR people. Not so with Guild Wars 2. Even on unnoficial forums, their systems designers and lead designers are constantly dropping in to clarify things.

That is much more official than PR marketing.

 

 

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

3/14/12 2:16:14 PM#140
Originally posted by shane242

 

okay, forums..
 
Class forum - every single class is underpowered, every other class is OP. No matter what class forum you go to, its the same. Useful feedback that is.
 
Server forum - Flame, flame and more flame.
 
Support forum - Same questions repeatedly, though this is needed imo as issues getting the game running will loose users (non that the payment model is really effected right away)
 
PvE - I want better loot blah blah, X is to hard we can't down him but we are so uber pro
 
PvP - I lost, the game is broken and unbalanced, the one where you have to get the flag.. now what is it called again.. hmm?
 
at the end of the day the feedback is pretty unless to the devs, its a poor community, and a ongoing cost that's a waste.
 
Fan sites tend to have a much better community, unfortunately there isn't normally a need for them as the official forum is the place to be.

Mmmmm... so not true. Sure, each of those forums contain those types of posts but they also contain-

  • Role/Class - Rate the guy above you. These are fun threads, it allows players to give and take advice with one post. Special snowflake players don't have to participate or ever get near the thread, but for players that want to be the best they can be (and pursue that by learning from better geared/spec'd players who are usually better at their skills), it's the best thread ever.
    • Why is this guy spec'd like this? He seems really good at the game but he chose this talent or that skill. What's he doing? Other players respond with answers like "SephirothPaladin is bleeding-edge hardcore, and that particular talent starts to have some value when you need to milk every particular point out of [x] that you can. He can afford to sacrifice [z] talent because he has someone else in the raid bringing it.
  • Server Forum - Reporting Assholes to the server's community. It's good to know if [x] person is a dick. There's also a lot of games in bigger servers' forums sometimes, and a lot of talk about the best guilds on the server.
  • PVE - Why are we wiping on this boss? This is our raid comp and this is what we're doing. Anyone have any advice.
  • PVP - I lost, the game is broken. lol. No, PVP forums also have a lot of baiting (nothing wrong with that, it is PVP), they also have a lot of players saying things like "I always lose against [x], any advice on how I can handle this class"? And sometimes, when the toolsets just clash that better, the answer is "An [x] against a [y] should just run away and live to fight another day. That class is your class' counter"
  • Support forums - It lets the devs know when an issue is still an issue. Yes, the constant posting of the same issue is annoying, but it gives them an idea of how big a problem is. It also lets the community know when something is a server's issue. If I'm having connection problems, or just bought the game and getting installation errors and I go to the forums and see four threads 3 pages long about the same issue on the front page, I know that there's really a problem going on.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

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