Originally posted by kevjards

Originally posted by kostoslav
It would be better if they add an option to have them permanently for like a 1000TP

i,m sure if it does'nt take off..they will do something like that.personally i dont have a problem with this..the only ones that seem to have a problem are the freebies..guess i,m lucky being a lifer..but i have to say i dont remember anywhere in the game that you require skirm soldier..if you are in a kin i,m sure they would help you down a mob you are having trouble with.

And has for it being more store focussed i,m sure GW2 and TSW are going to be the same.i have about 8k TP from monthly allowance.hardly ever touch the store.that is the way all mmo's are going..not to mention lotro has about the best f2p model on the market atm.

All MMOs are not going this way and Turbine's model is now probably one of the worst on the market.   It most closely mirrors that of Frogsters and PWI.  Oddly enough SoE and NCSoft have the best Freemium models on the market right now because if you subscribe you get full access to the game and its features.

Some games, like RIFT, are successfully making it with the P2P model.  Trion just released an update much larger than Isengard all for the cost of the sub fee.

The only reason to play this game now is because someone absolutely has to be in Middle Earth.  There are better F2P payment models with games that have more content and deeper systems (EQ2) and P2P games (RIFT and TOR) that offer the entire game for the cost of the sub fee.

hey in swtor all you have to do is get up in the 20's to get your skirmish soldeir i mean companion lolz. That 100 points an hour is lolz in itself i didnt know that hahaha. I said it first i knew that lotro would put the skirmish soldiers like that b/c of tor the 100 tp points though is another slap in the face and another reason on the long liiiiiiiist not to go back to middle earth sigh.........................

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Damn optional features. How dare they add something that might entice people to spend a little money.

Damn gamers. How dare they want to pay a set fee for a game and not be constantly harassed by cash shop advertisements on loading screens.

then maybe they should, oh i dont know, not play a game with microtransactions, shocking i know that gamers might actually have to use their brains when choosing what games to play.

Fantastic nugget of wisdom you have there...

if it weren't for the fact that the game use to be P2P with no cash shop, and then Turbine decided to force the freemium cashshop into the game and over all players. There's a lot of people who started to play this game prior to it going "F2P"... I guess they should just quit the game if they don't like it. Welp, I message received, I did quit and stayed away due to the game gonig F2P.

It's really not that big of deal. You won't use your skirmish soldier much in the field anyways. So far I have seen zero skirmish soldiers in the field. You can use marks and medallions to summon them so no big deal.

All MMOs are not going this way and Turbine's model is now probably one of the worst on the market.   It most closely mirrors that of Frogsters and PWI.  Oddly enough SoE and NCSoft have the best Freemium models on the market right now because if you subscribe you get full access to the game and its features.

Just that fact that you have to pay cash in EQ2 to be able to use the legendary items you get as drops is a dealbreaker for me. I tried going back to EQ2 because a used to love the game, but the Soe version of cashshop is absolutely horrible.

I think that the Turbine model used in Lotro and DDO is really good, at least it has been up til this point. I really don't understand all the whining about having to "spend money" when playing a game; they have to make money to sustain the game, and as long as 'cash-shop-stuff' are optional and not required to play, or if you're charged for expansions and new questpacks,   I am perfectly fine with it.

think it is a good idea to make soldier-use expensive so that people won't use them at all times - if people did it would completely change the game and make it necessary to rebalance the damage of all mobs. If soldier-use is something you only use occationally to help with a particularly tough quest (or a similar situation), then it won't unbalance the game as much.

I went back to Lotro a couple of months ago and I love it - cashshop and all :)

Originally posted by Torvaldr

All MMOs are not going this way and Turbine's model is now probably one of the worst on the market.   It most closely mirrors that of Frogsters and PWI.  Oddly enough SoE and NCSoft have the best Freemium models on the market right now because if you subscribe you get full access to the game and its features.

well, wait a minute that's not any different from Turbine. If you subscribe you get full access to the game and its' features. Don't forget you do get Turbine pionts each month for your subscription so that can be spent on these soldiers.

I think they are assuming that one is going to be doing many skirmishes to earn extra marks. As someone else mentioned, most likely this is for "speical ocassions" and not really meant to be used all the time . I still think it's a hefty price and will most likely never use it.

in my opinion, they can dork around with cash shop items as much as their greedy lil hearts desire, **as long as paying the monthly subs fee gets you around it all**.

the idea of free/mium IMHO, in other words, is to let the player try the game at their own pace and then act as a doorway to  being a paid subber.

i do not like one bit the idea of the paying subscriber having to pay for integral part of the game.  the only thing paying subscriber shoujld have to shell out for is something like a server or name change.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torvaldr

All MMOs are not going this way and Turbine's model is now probably one of the worst on the market.   It most closely mirrors that of Frogsters and PWI.  Oddly enough SoE and NCSoft have the best Freemium models on the market right now because if you subscribe you get full access to the game and its features.

well, wait a minute that's not any different from Turbine. If you subscribe you get full access to the game and its' features. Don't forget you do get Turbine pionts each month for your subscription so that can be spent on these soldiers.

I think they are assuming that one is going to be doing many skirmishes to earn extra marks. As someone else mentioned, most likely this is for "speical ocassions" and not really meant to be used all the time . I still think it's a hefty price and will most likely never use it.

No, you don't get the full meal deal if you subscribe with Turbine.  That is the very reason why I canncelled my sub.  The pitance of TP / month doesn't cover pretty much anything anymore.  Yes, at conversion it did, but now, no way.

Every game on the F2P model is going for the cash grab and hopes to top what they could have made off of monthly subs, but Turbine really is greedy.  They have removed game features and placed them in the store (that goes for subscribers too), have a massive amount of store exclusive items (that goes for subscribers too) that far exceed the paltry monthly stipend, and develop their content around the store and purchases (stat tomes, soldier use overland, barter wallet, etc).

The marks medallion costs for level 75+ soldiers is insanse and meant to drive players to the store, even subscribers.

A big no thanks to Turbine.  I'll not be returning and will stay with my P2P game where I get it ALL for the price of the sub.

As stupid as this cost is and how I will probably never use the feature, just too used to soloing or grouping anyway, this isn't a game breaker, people.  Sheesh.  Even the stupid cost of the wallet upgrade isn't gamebreaking.  I'm not using my TP on that either unless it goes on sale.  Basically, I just save my TP for expansions.  It's worked out well so far and the game is still fun to play.  The core game hasn't changed from what I can tell.  I still do today what I did 3 years ago.  Quest, deeds, dungeons, crafting, exploring.  

Originally posted by Torvaldr

 

No, you don't get the full meal deal if you subscribe with Turbine.  That is the very reason why I canncelled my sub.  The pitance of TP / month doesn't cover pretty much anything anymore.  Yes, at conversion it did, but now, no way.

Wait a minute, other than these skirmish soldiers requiring TP, what else do you not get with your subscription?

Originally posted by miramira2

All MMOs are not going this way and Turbine's model is now probably one of the worst on the market.   It most closely mirrors that of Frogsters and PWI.  Oddly enough SoE and NCSoft have the best Freemium models on the market right now because if you subscribe you get full access to the game and its features.

Just that fact that you have to pay cash in EQ2 to be able to use the legendary items you get as drops is a dealbreaker for me. I tried going back to EQ2 because a used to love the game, but the Soe version of cashshop is absolutely horrible.

I think that the Turbine model used in Lotro and DDO is really good, at least it has been up til this point. I really don't understand all the whining about having to "spend money" when playing a game; they have to make money to sustain the game, and as long as 'cash-shop-stuff' are optional and not required to play, or if you're charged for expansions and new questpacks,   I am perfectly fine with it.

think it is a good idea to make soldier-use expensive so that people won't use them at all times - if people did it would completely change the game and make it necessary to rebalance the damage of all mobs. If soldier-use is something you only use occationally to help with a particularly tough quest (or a similar situation), then it won't unbalance the game as much.

I went back to Lotro a couple of months ago and I love it - cashshop and all :)

Why dont you just up and pay a subscription? I play EQ2 myself and I use the SUBSCRIPTION model guess what. I use legendary items why because they are allowed.

The point is all you people wanting everything for free you might as well forget it.. The reason these FTP models are catching on is because developers realize that the majority of newer younger gamers have the attention span of a 2 month old, and will hop in a game for a short time, play it for a few weeks spend some money in a cash shop and jet to the next new shiney that comes along. They intend to make the most they can with an audience like that.

They make their profits by FTPers these days thinking they are getting to play for free.. Sure play for free just pay for everything you need to play.

I continue to laugh at all the people who have pushed for FTPs.. Now they can cry at what has been delivered to them. These companies are not gamer charities.. They are out to make money. Which is completely understandable.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torvaldr

 

No, you don't get the full meal deal if you subscribe with Turbine.  That is the very reason why I canncelled my sub.  The pitance of TP / month doesn't cover pretty much anything anymore.  Yes, at conversion it did, but now, no way.

Wait a minute, other than these skirmish soldiers requiring TP, what else do you not get with your subscription?

 

You don't get access to the new and improved barter wallet.  No full access to shared storage or wardrobe.  No skipping the intro tutorial anymore.  Can not unslot runics anymore.  Most all of the coolest steeds (eg: class mounts) are store exclusives.  The best potions are store exclusives.  There is a ton of store exclusive cosmetics.  Soldier upgradge caps have to be purchased.

There is no way you can buy all of that, not to mention some of the content upgrades that aren't included in the sub price.

And Elocke is right, it's not a gamebreaker to not have these things.  That is you can still log in to the game and do some stuff. Yet it is a total dealbreaker if you are the kind of gamer that enjoys full access to all the game.

That is why I now choose to pay for a P2P game service that offers all that for the cost of the sub.  RIFT may no be interesting to those who play LotRO or other games, but I enjoy the game style a lot.  More than that, I enjoy the fact that I get it all for the cost of my sub.  I got Ember Isle, which had a lot more content than I got in RoI, included for the cost of my sub.  I don't care that I lose access to my high level characters when my sub ends because if I'm going to play a game, any game, I'll be spending money on it.  I can drop it and pick it up at any time I want.

With LotRO I figured out that if I want to keep playing the same way I could in RIFT, TOR, Aion, WoW, or even EQ2 and AoC, I would have to buy at least 1 $50 TP package every 6 months in addition to my sub.  When I want to burn through high end stuff (consumables, fancy gear, fancy fluff, mounts, etc) in a P2P game I have to commit more time.  In F2P game I have commit more of my wallet and that just rubs me the wrong way.  Even some of those P2P games (Aion and Wow) have stupid cash only exclusives.  That is why I like RIFT so much.  It's the first game since Lineage that offered me everything that I had to game for, rather than buy.

I hope that makes it clearer.  It's not that LotRO can't still have some fun aspects.  It's that I feel Turbine is a gouger and I can get a better deal elsewhere, where the focus is on the game and community rather than maximizing the monetization of the gamer.

Originally posted by miramira2

All MMOs are not going this way and Turbine's model is now probably one of the worst on the market.   It most closely mirrors that of Frogsters and PWI.  Oddly enough SoE and NCSoft have the best Freemium models on the market right now because if you subscribe you get full access to the game and its features.

Just that fact that you have to pay cash in EQ2 to be able to use the legendary items you get as drops is a dealbreaker for me. I tried going back to EQ2 because a used to love the game, but the Soe version of cashshop is absolutely horrible.

I think that the Turbine model used in Lotro and DDO is really good, at least it has been up til this point. I really don't understand all the whining about having to "spend money" when playing a game; they have to make money to sustain the game, and as long as 'cash-shop-stuff' are optional and not required to play, or if you're charged for expansions and new questpacks,   I am perfectly fine with it.

think it is a good idea to make soldier-use expensive so that people won't use them at all times - if people did it would completely change the game and make it necessary to rebalance the damage of all mobs. If soldier-use is something you only use occationally to help with a particularly tough quest (or a similar situation), then it won't unbalance the game as much.

I went back to Lotro a couple of months ago and I love it - cashshop and all :)

I won't play the free version of EQ2 either.  However, if I did want to play EQ2 and subscribed, I would have full access to all of that - legendary and fabled items, crafting, gold cap, shared storage and more.

My beef isn't about what I don't get as a F2P account, but that I don't get full access to the game if I subscribe.

I just want to game, not play virtual shopping and virtual currency managing.

The bottom line is you won't get the full game with Turbine, even while subscribed.  At 500TP/mo how many months is it going to take just to unlock shared storage, wardrobe, and barter, not to mention your soldier skill cap, LI slots, and more.

I used to be a firm defender of Turbien and its F2P model. To be honest it was the best and it was a very honest model. Once every other month I would subscribe and enjoy the content I didnt have. But right now its down the drain....

Everything costs Turbine points now, back then it was few hundred for this and few hundred for that, I used to be able to cover that with the free 500 points i was getting every month. Now everything costs way more. 800 for this and 950 for that....

I didnt even get the raid for the ROI expansion, like 1000 points just for 1 raid?

I also got a bunch of zones paying points, thay added a few minor instances/dungeons to the zones that I already paid for but I dont have access...I have to pay additional to buy those too...

Long story short, they got too greedy and lost my business. I am not subbing anymore and not paying for the poorly done expansions. Almost 2 months and i didnt even log in...

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Flaming_MMO

Originally posted by tawess

easy solution... pay your monthly fee and go on your merry way.. no need to mess around wiith the cash shop to much...

Because you know nothing in life is free.

 Paying the monthly fee still does not get you the Skirmish Soldier on the landscape feature.   At this point, Im calling it quits with LoTRO and skipping the monthly fee, and just going on my merry way.

You apparently continue to miss the bit where you can use skirmish points to buy the tokens to bring them out into the open world.  In other words, You spend the stuff you make while USING them in the skirmishes to be able to use them OUTSIDE the skirmishes.  You DO NOT have to use TP.

I've played for over two years now, though my log-ins are mostly to pay my house rent now.   And you know what,  there comes a point in time where you just can't do another fracking skirimish!!!   I have done all of them so many times...    Every skirm through 75...    Many, many, many, many, many times..     

So, it's not so easy...    The cringe-worthy ick of running skirms, or sch/lib or GS...    No.  

And even though I have a ton of TP built-up because I tend not to buy things in the cash shop but cosmetics....    And I have tons of those anyway from playing forover  two years...    It's too close to "Pay-to-win" for me.   So, no.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torvaldr

 

No, you don't get the full meal deal if you subscribe with Turbine.  That is the very reason why I canncelled my sub.  The pitance of TP / month doesn't cover pretty much anything anymore.  Yes, at conversion it did, but now, no way.

Wait a minute, other than these skirmish soldiers requiring TP, what else do you not get with your subscription?

 

You don't get access to the new and improved barter wallet.  No full access to shared storage or wardrobe.  No skipping the intro tutorial anymore.  Can not unslot runics anymore.  Most all of the coolest steeds (eg: class mounts) are store exclusives.  The best potions are store exclusives.  There is a ton of store exclusive cosmetics.  Soldier upgradge caps have to be purchased.

There is no way you can buy all of that, not to mention some of the content upgrades that aren't included in the sub price.

And Elocke is right, it's not a gamebreaker to not have these things.  That is you can still log in to the game and do some stuff. Yet it is a total dealbreaker if you are the kind of gamer that enjoys full access to all the game.

 

Actually it is to some extent.   If you're in a serious raid guild, you have to have those potions and use them because the decrease  the chance of wipe.   That started happening in Disease Wing of Ost Dunhoth when they hit the shops the same time Enidwaith came out and carried over to all major raids.   And they became super important on wound wing due to the dps/heal balance issues on Tier 2.

So, just you're required to have the best weapons, best armor, best traits...   You need to have certain potions from the cash shop because they're on a different timer.   

Be a Captain. It'll solve your problem.

Originally posted by elocke

As stupid as this cost is and how I will probably never use the feature, just too used to soloing or grouping anyway, this isn't a game breaker, people.  Sheesh.  Even the stupid cost of the wallet upgrade isn't gamebreaking.  I'm not using my TP on that either unless it goes on sale.  Basically, I just save my TP for expansions.  It's worked out well so far and the game is still fun to play.  The core game hasn't changed from what I can tell.  I still do today what I did 3 years ago.  Quest, deeds, dungeons, crafting, exploring.  

Yup.  Same here.  Not sure why people are getting bent out of shape about an optional feature that has never been needed in the game, and still isn't needed.  This is still one of the best games on the market, and I always find myself going back to it, as new content comes out.  

Soooo

not only did they offer an in game solution that you can play and do FOR FREE to pay for this option

but they actually added the OPTION to spend money to get the points to actually pay for this feature as another source of revenue?

HOW DARE THEY GIVE US OPTIONS!

All I've ever paid for is character slots...quest content and  bag /bank/wardrobe slots. Never needed Skirmishers on the landscape before...don't need them now.