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Mortal Online

Mortal Online 

General Discussion  » First draft of AI Guard Fight - Low Level Guards!

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74 posts found
  deathshroud

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1382

3/12/12 12:24:18 PM#41
Originally posted by RainBringer
Originally posted by deathshroud
 

 like i said its an in engine render, in engine renders generally use ingame assets but either up the polygon count significantly or use a higher quality texture, they also use more post processing and are esentially way to demanding to actually run as a game but are built using the engine. They are misleading by their very nature but a cheap way to create a good looking trailer for a game so this is nothing new. The assets are ingame but since it isnt exactly a gameplay trailer it doesnt have to be exact. Below are a few examples of in engine renders, you will note the much higher graphical quality of them over the actual games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&list=UUDoTjVGM9EX8BY7KNaCb0Jw&index=22&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

 

I dont think sv are at fault for their first trailer, its an in engine render, its pretty obvious as well and they arent gameplay videos.

 

the reason why i said the dragon from the beta traielr and not from the rendered trailer is because its an actual ingame video as oppossed to one created using unreal engine.

 

also i generally take it as granted that a trailer is to hype the game no need to tell me that.

I dont need you to tell me what an engine render is, what I had said in my previous post before that part got moderated.

 

Not only renders but cutscenes, cinematics and basically a good deal of limited control / no control motion vidoes in today's games are created using tools which employ higher degrees of bloom effects, polygon counts, HQ textures, higher degrees of camera FOVs, magnified effects, etc. 

 

Most people, might come as a shock to you, when looking at a game trailer that says:

  Teaser produced using in-game content and technology

right there as a statutory warning in the first 3 seconds think that this is exactly how the game will look like.  Most MMO gamers have no idea that such movies are made with "content" that will not be feasible to put inside the game due to the graphic intensive load on the player's machine. So please, cut the bullshit that this is common knowledge and a common practice in the MMO industry to hype trailers with such slogans while fooling the potential player.

When SWTOR employed HQ textures in cutscenes and did not provide it in game, people raged like they had been robbed off the skin from their noses, get some perspective or educate yourself in development Ethics before running off such BS just to favour SV's less than honest practice.

 

Yea, to your eyes SV arent at fault with the first scamming trailer, or the second deceitful video, or the third edited load of propaganda. Everything that SV does is A-OK in your eyes, I get it. I finally understand that to you SV is the epitome of success and can never be at fault. If you remember I once gave you credit for being a more non-fanatical pro-SV poster here, I take it all back. I further hope to never get pulled into any strawman arguments with you since no amount of reasoning will suffice. And I have been very civil in posting this message and I really hope no mod would again edit out anything here and leave my post's complete meaning hanging yet again in uncertainty.

 

Just had to say this, the video clearly states in-game content and shows a dragon in it. Why does anyone need to look at any other video for more proof of SV's lies?   

 there is ingame content in it, theres also content not ingame... your point?

 

also it was released during alpha im pretty sure those assets were expected to be used in one form or another albiet with a much lower polygon count/ texture. everything is ingame from what i can tell except the locations (beleive the town is an early version of tindrem) the dragon is in the huergar cave currently unreachable, the bullhorse was obviously ingame until dawn, the armors both sets are ingame looking a little different, the thurasar armor is found on npcs.

so yes the trailer does use ingame content, it also uses some content not fonud ingame likely due to changes made to the game since alpha, but overall its ingame or has been at some point. The dragon and the sawmpy enviroment are really the only two things msising. The enviroment is bleeived to be in herabaltor which is the risar continent, during beta devs dropepd the idea of trying to get the other continents finished due to funds/time and so at the time of the trailer it was believed to be planned for release however later held back until later. The dragon was seen in beta in the huergar cave until the passage was blocked off. But since the trialer isnt even ingame anyway is it really that important.

 

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  RainBringer

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 163

Airstrikes - verb: to campaign against hikes in rocket and/or missile fuel prices.

3/13/12 11:43:38 AM#42
Originally posted by deathshroud
 

 there is ingame content in it, theres also content not ingame... your point?

 

 

 

You just arent getting it. My point.

Ignorace must be so blissful, some people have all the luck in life to lead such carefree lives.

Gullible are the fanboys; How blind is their sight!

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 3868

3/13/12 12:15:23 PM#43

Recently started playing MO and I am erally enjoying it..

Came over drom Darkfall as thats gonig carebear mode..

 

Anyway I love how the devs at SV actually interact with their player base, hell in the first week of being on their foums i had their CEO replying to one of my posts and thinknig about possibly using one of my ideas along with a few others suggested on the thread... I ahve never seen Tasos on the darkfall doing anything similar or any toher MMORPGs that i can recall..

So the dev team get a thumbs up from me thats for sure, i know the game is not perfect but as its been mentioned they are a small company so things will move slower..

 

As for the video I like what i see will be a big improvement to the game just having that kind of interaction.. Also people going on about it being scripted.. well shock and horror everything is scripted in games there is no such thing a True AI.. current AI is just a script that does different things..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/13/12 12:25:51 PM#44

You are confusing terms that have specific meaning when applied to the game enviroment.

 

A script never changes it's behaviour. I could attack that guard a 1000 different times and it would still stand still and swing, block, wait 3.5s, swing, block etc.

A working AI would not do exactly the same thing in 1000 combats. It might move to a better position to use a ranged weapon, it might run away to get help, it might swing, block, then block again, it might switch tactics when the guard gets low on health, etc.

 

  RainBringer

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 163

Airstrikes - verb: to campaign against hikes in rocket and/or missile fuel prices.

3/13/12 1:00:02 PM#45
Originally posted by Caldrin

 

As for the video I like what i see will be a big improvement to the game just having that kind of interaction.. Also people going on about it being scripted.. well shock and horror everything is scripted in games there is no such thing a True AI.. current AI is just a script that does different things..

 

There still isnt anything worthy enough to be called a true AI, but what was shown in that video was just horrendous to even be put in the same line along with the word Intelligence.

 

Let me put it this way,

A basic of the basic scripted event is a preordained set of commands that the NPC performs regardless of environmental input. Simply said, that NPC would have continued to swing/block/swing/block if the player was behind it, if the player was 50 meters in front of it or if the player was sitting right next to it fishing from one of MO's cesspools.

On the other hand, a condition governed AI would chase the player down / run from the player if its life is endangered, use ranged attacks on players while kiting / use ranged and melee attack combination depending on player proximity / lure the player into a NPC cluster as a mode of ambush and endless other situations can be theorized based on real time player input. These are also scripted but require the use of a higher level of programming and its understanding in order to make the player believe that the NPC is actually intelligent even though its just executing a set of predefined contingencies that someone has coded in for it to perform.

 

SV got no talent, hence their AI sucks balls this is a fact that even the MO "vets" cant deny. And that video could just be a half cooked cutscene since its so short and inconclusive that it does not even play its role in showing if there is actually a newly coded AI or if it all is a poorly scripted animation scene. And that is why this video is worthless just like the CEO's interaction with the community, he speaks from not just both sides of his mouth but also from his ass so anything he says is akin to a rich boy coaxing his pet to keep it happy (but a pet who pays him a monthly sub).

Gullible are the fanboys; How blind is their sight!

  deathshroud

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1382

3/14/12 2:32:39 AM#46
Originally posted by RainBringer
Originally posted by Caldrin

 

As for the video I like what i see will be a big improvement to the game just having that kind of interaction.. Also people going on about it being scripted.. well shock and horror everything is scripted in games there is no such thing a True AI.. current AI is just a script that does different things..

 

There still isnt anything worthy enough to be called a true AI, but what was shown in that video was just horrendous to even be put in the same line along with the word Intelligence.

 

Let me put it this way,

A basic of the basic scripted event is a preordained set of commands that the NPC performs regardless of environmental input. Simply said, that NPC would have continued to swing/block/swing/block if the player was behind it, if the player was 50 meters in front of it or if the player was sitting right next to it fishing from one of MO's cesspools.

On the other hand, a condition governed AI would chase the player down / run from the player if its life is endangered, use ranged attacks on players while kiting / use ranged and melee attack combination depending on player proximity / lure the player into a NPC cluster as a mode of ambush and endless other situations can be theorized based on real time player input. These are also scripted but require the use of a higher level of programming and its understanding in order to make the player believe that the NPC is actually intelligent even though its just executing a set of predefined contingencies that someone has coded in for it to perform.

 

SV got no talent, hence their AI sucks balls this is a fact that even the MO "vets" cant deny. And that video could just be a half cooked cutscene since its so short and inconclusive that it does not even play its role in showing if there is actually a newly coded AI or if it all is a poorly scripted animation scene. And that is why this video is worthless just like the CEO's interaction with the community, he speaks from not just both sides of his mouth but also from his ass so anything he says is akin to a rich boy coaxing his pet to keep it happy (but a pet who pays him a monthly sub).

 rainbringer is right on what scripting is in most fps games. Having worked with them in the past its eactly how i understand them. However there wasnt really anything in the video suggesting the guards behaviour was scripted at all. It seemed to me after a couple of seconds the guard would perform a random attack, on occasion he stabbed 3 times in a row other times swung then stabbed then blocked. Doesnt seem like a behavioural pattern it seemed random which is completely opposite. Not really Ai but just as effective since its unpredictable.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 3868

3/14/12 12:15:41 PM#47

They explained that this was a very early example of what they are worknig on with the AI.

First section shows the AI running away if its in danger, then the second shows some combat with one of the low level guards that only has a sword, no other weapons or magic to use..

 

Why people are gonig on about it being shit and everything i dont know.. its a very early example of what they are working on simple as that nothing else...

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 12:20:34 PM#48

Because as usual Henrik and his personal cult are hyping it as "revolutionary" and genre changing when in reality the only evidence we have is a poorly scripted fight.

 

The only reason they released it at all is that players are leaving constantly due to no PvE in MO and this is a desperate attempt to retain subs.

 

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 12:53:09 PM#49
Originally posted by deathshroud

 Having worked with them in the past its eactly how i understand them. However there wasnt really anything in the video suggesting the guards behaviour was scripted at all.

 

That is quite a claim to authority, can you justify it in any way? What game were you involved in producing to market?

 

Or do you actually mean you fiddled with the UE editor (or similar) and think that qulifies you as a developer, like Henrik and co do?

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

3/14/12 12:56:20 PM#50
Originally posted by Betel

Because as usual Henrik and his personal cult are hyping it as "revolutionary" and genre changing when in reality the only evidence we have is a poorly scripted fight.

 

The only reason they released it at all is that players are leaving constantly due to no PvE in MO and this is a desperate attempt to retain subs.

 

Betel we all know you are a viral marketer hired by Blizzard to keep the sandbox industry down.

 

See I can make wild accusations too.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 1:16:19 PM#51

The quotes are in this thread from Henrik, I invented nothing - unlike you :)

 

It's not the first time Henrik has done this either, remember the claims he made about the mount system in Dawn? That it would revolutionise gaming forever and be a benchmark? Yeah, how did that work out?

 

 

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

3/14/12 1:37:34 PM#52

Henrik does tend to overhype a little, but MO still has realism unlike any other game.

Concerning mounts. You have 2 choices. You can "Buy your mount at level 10!!!" and freely summon/spellcast said mount(POOF!) in other games. Or you can tame one or buy one from other players, and feed it, tell it to graze, and have loyalty for you.

Even with mount pathing issues I will choose MO mounts over any other game out there.

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 1:51:18 PM#53

Many games have the version of pet ownership you prefer. It is not unique to MO in any way, apart from the fact that MO's implementation is bugged to hell of course.

 

In fact, UO had it 15 years ago and has it to this day. Hardly revolutionary or even competently implemented by SV.

 

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

3/14/12 2:48:15 PM#54

Yes, I know UO has it. But the others are just unrealistic and graphics lack imo, speaking of DF, Wurm.

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 4:03:18 PM#55

Your statement was "I will choose MO mounts over any other game out there."

 

What does that have to do with graphics? Why are you limiting the comparison to only 2 games when you actually said "any game"? If you like heavily bugged content fair enough, but there are far better implemented versions of the same model used in MO.

 

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

3/14/12 4:08:11 PM#56
Originally posted by Betel

Your statement was "I will choose MO mounts over any other game out there."

 

What does that have to do with graphics? Why are you limiting the comparison to only 2 games when you actually said "any game"? If you like heavily bugged content fair enough, but there are far better implemented versions of the same model used in MO.

 

Because the only other games with mount systems like MO are: UO, Wurm, and maybe DF as a huuuuge stretch(taming skill).

Am I missing some?  I personally cant play Wurm and UO and get immersed into them due to graphics.

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 4:16:12 PM#57

Even WOW has a pet system that has taming and loyalty, it is nothing unique.  Plenty of other games with it too.

 

So once again  your argument comes down to "I want pretty graphics". Why don't you just admit that you prize that above sandbox features?

 

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

3/14/12 4:18:08 PM#58
Originally posted by Betel

Even WOW has a pet system that has taming and loyalty, it is nothing unique.  Plenty of other games with it too.

 

So once again  your argument comes down to "I want pretty graphics". Why don't you just admit that you prize that above sandbox features?

 

lol, WoW?    

/facepalm

Nevermind.

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/14/12 4:31:14 PM#59
Originally posted by xDayx

lol, WoW?    

/facepalm

Nevermind.

 

I already listed sandbox games and you rejected them for not being pretty enough. Every single time you are pushed on one of your claims it always comes down to that.

 

It is clear you value pretty pictures over working sandbox features.

 

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

3/14/12 4:32:31 PM#60

[Mod Edit]

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