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Mortal Online

Mortal Online 

General Discussion  » First draft of AI Guard Fight - Low Level Guards!

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74 posts found
  wmada2k

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 196

 
OP  3/07/12 5:16:28 PM#1

So the first draft is here for the guards, check it out! ->  http://youtu.be/TAyR_pcYaws

"AI TEST BEHAVIORS!


Please note that this is a work in progress video, This is not final content and it's not a promotional video.

This is a video of our first draft of AI guard fights!"

Looking good!

  SHOE788

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 715

3/07/12 10:20:33 PM#2

Wheres the AI?

It's a monster standing in one place.

The blocking? Notice how it isn't "predicting"...it's just always blocking.

This type of "AI" has been in games since the dawn of time, but I guess since it's Mortal Online we should praise it for being "revolutionary".

  amadman

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/10
Posts: 19

3/07/12 11:56:31 PM#3

For get all  the hype. I am not looking for anything revolutionary.  I am just looking for improvements. And this first draft does show things moving in a good direction.

"In MO, even the haters are hardcore!" - ltank

  Gwahlur

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/11
Posts: 198

3/08/12 3:40:01 AM#4

They've kind of set themselves up for failure, or at least massive troll attacks, with their rhetorics though... Shame.

 

AI already seems to be a lot more advanced... but tbh i was hoping they would have gotten further by now. Still, fingers crossed

  CroniteLore

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/11
Posts: 110

3/08/12 3:52:35 AM#5

Indeed, fingers crossed!

Looks kinda exciting to me but I want to see more substance - I guess that will come.

"In MO, even the haters are hardcore!" - ltank

  wmada2k

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 196

 
OP  3/08/12 4:11:10 AM#6

Exactky, who said anything about it being revolutionary? It is nice to see the AI comming along since the most ppl can agree on that it was missing!?

So, to clarify it: The first draft of the new AI is looking good! This will do the game very good!

  Bitshift

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 31

3/08/12 4:19:28 AM#7
Originally posted by wmada2k

Exactky, who said anything about it being revolutionary?

http://www.mortalonline.com/news/the-awakening

 

"Mortal Online's new AI is one that is sure to surprise you, with incredible features never yet seen in an MMORPG."

 

;-)

  wmada2k

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 196

 
OP  3/08/12 9:41:35 AM#8

Yes, but this video is far from what the AI will be like -  As it says: 

 

First draft of AI Guard Fight - Low Level Guards!

  deathshroud

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1392

3/08/12 10:11:36 AM#9
Originally posted by Bitshift
Originally posted by wmada2k

Exactky, who said anything about it being revolutionary?

http://www.mortalonline.com/news/the-awakening

 

"Mortal Online's new AI is one that is sure to surprise you, with incredible features never yet seen in an MMORPG."

 

;-)

 the prospect of real npc guards, real mobs that are guards is quite intruiging and wil lbe a first when you consider the whole alignemnet system will pretty much rest in the hands of these guards and their ability to control both pve and pvp around cities. Of course npc like guards have been woefully seen in games like aoc and eve but the ai there had no choices to make, no specific attacks to think of and little to do other than kill without command and follow a navmesh. MO's npc guard ai seems to take it much further. Hopefully it will reach that stage but theres alot more work i imagine before anyone can start claiming to have created a revolutionary ai for mmorpgs. But the video impressed and showed proof of concept and the thought of this style of npc guard ai alone is something to be excited about even if the ai doesnt prove to be anything other than a typical mmorpg ai.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/08/12 10:40:47 AM#10
Originally posted by deathshroud                                            

 the prospect of real npc guards, real mobs that are guards is quite intruiging and wil lbe a first when you consider the whole alignemnet system will pretty much rest in the hands of these guards and their ability to control both pve and pvp around cities. Of course npc like guards have been woefully seen in games like aoc and eve but the ai there had no choices to make, no specific attacks to think of and little to do other than kill without command and follow a navmesh. MO's npc guard ai seems to take it much further.

What? How many MMO's have you played? EQ had a much more complex alignment/reputation system that meant even within the same city some guards might attack you, UO had Chaos/Order as well as the regular murderer/reputation system, etc.

When you state "AI had no choices to make", what do you mean? If you mean no decisions on who to attack you are wrong, and if you mean no decisions as to how to attack (combat AI) then you are also wrong. Can you clarify that point?

 

Hopefully it will reach that stage but theres alot more work i imagine before anyone can start claiming to have created a revolutionary ai for mmorpgs. But the video impressed and showed proof of concept and the thought of this style of npc guard ai alone is something to be excited about even if the ai doesnt prove to be anything other than a typical mmorpg ai.

Henrik will overhype and underdeliver - spectatularly. In the one on one with the guard in the video, the guard does nothing but a scripted sequence of block, swing, block, swing. The timings are exactly the same and never varied. That is not AI, it is a fixed script.

 

  deathshroud

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1392

3/08/12 2:03:02 PM#11
Originally posted by Betel
Originally posted by deathshroud                                            

 the prospect of real npc guards, real mobs that are guards is quite intruiging and wil lbe a first when you consider the whole alignemnet system will pretty much rest in the hands of these guards and their ability to control both pve and pvp around cities. Of course npc like guards have been woefully seen in games like aoc and eve but the ai there had no choices to make, no specific attacks to think of and little to do other than kill without command and follow a navmesh. MO's npc guard ai seems to take it much further.

What? How many MMO's have you played? EQ had a much more complex alignment/reputation system that meant even within the same city some guards might attack you, UO had Chaos/Order as well as the regular murderer/reputation system, etc.

When you state "AI had no choices to make", what do you mean? If you mean no decisions on who to attack you are wrong, and if you mean no decisions as to how to attack (combat AI) then you are also wrong. Can you clarify that point?

 

havent played EQ no, i belive something similar to chaos/order is planned at a later date, what i mean is that there is no ai in eves guards they just pursue they have no pathing because its in space and there are no altenrate attacks at all, the aoc guards leash back a short distance persue reletenlessly in a controled enviroment. In MO guards have varied attacks there are no restrictive boundries in MO or load screens so the guards could potentially have to pursue over a varied amount of terrain, the whole blue/red alignemnt is going to be relying on this 1 system working correctly so theres alot resting on this AI working and hence why it is intriguing to see the results. IMO there is no ai in eves guards or just about any of the mobs in eve.  bleeive MO's guards will provide a real pve challenge over the guards of most mmos with actual rewards to defeating them.

 

Hopefully it will reach that stage but theres alot more work i imagine before anyone can start claiming to have created a revolutionary ai for mmorpgs. But the video impressed and showed proof of concept and the thought of this style of npc guard ai alone is something to be excited about even if the ai doesnt prove to be anything other than a typical mmorpg ai.

Henrik will overhype and underdeliver - spectatularly. In the one on one with the guard in the video, the guard does nothing but a scripted sequence of block, swing, block, swing. The timings are exactly the same and never varied. That is not AI, it is a fixed script.

I agree that it will under deliver if your expecting it to be exactly as hyped, but those who arent fooled by hype may still be impressed. It is of coruse gonig to be buggy thats expected.

 

At no point does it look scripted, i am not seeing a repeated pattern at all there is nothing in that video to suggest it is scripted, it could potentially be but their are no signs to suggest so and the most likely thing is its merely random which mvoe the guard will do. So i fail to understand your conclusion that the fight was scripted when there is 0 evidence in the video to support this.

 

 answers to your answers

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  Betel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 396

3/08/12 3:54:05 PM#12
Originally posted by deathshroud

havent played EQ no, i belive something similar to chaos/order is planned at a later date, what i mean is that there is no ai in eves guards they just pursue they have no pathing because its in space

In literally every other MMO ever made this is a given, why is it "revolutionary" or even worth noting in MO? Because they lack the talent to implement basic features. In EVE there is pathing too, it's just simpler in space of course.

 

and there are no altenrate attacks at all

There are plenty of alternate attacks in NPC's, they generally have a table of abilities to use. Again standard to all MMOs

 

,the aoc guards leash back a short distance persue reletenlessly in a controled enviroment.

What?

 

In MO guards have varied attacks there are no restrictive boundries in MO or load screens so the guards could potentially have to pursue over a varied amount of terrain,

Happened in UO 15 years ago, not revolutionary or noteworthy at all. And MO has nodes, let's see how the AI handles that shall we?

 

the whole blue/red alignemnt is going to be relying on this 1 system working correctly so theres alot resting on this AI working and hence why it is intriguing to see the results. IMO there is no ai in eves guards or just about any of the mobs in eve.  bleeive MO's guards will provide a real pve challenge over the guards of most mmos with actual rewards to defeating them.

Your opinion can safely be discarded then, as in EVE and other games there is functional AI, otherwise the NPCs would do what MO's NPC's do - stand still while you kill them with zero risk.

 

At no point does it look scripted, i am not seeing a repeated pattern at all there is nothing in that video to suggest it is scripted, it could potentially be but their are no signs to suggest so and the most likely thing is its merely random which mvoe the guard will do. So i fail to understand your conclusion that the fight was scripted when there is 0 evidence in the video to support this.

 

The guard does block, swing, block, swing, in an endless loop and does not change behaviour when struck by the player. Completely scripted and no sign of reactive AI at all.

 

You are claiming features that have been a basic facet of games at launch since the 90's is some kind of revolution. It's just nonsense.

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

3/08/12 4:00:35 PM#13

I play MO currently and  have not noticed anything I havent seen yet in a MMO yet based on the Test AI videos yet. So I cant make a judgement call on whether or not something original will come out of the new AI.

What I can say is that the addition of PVE to the game will only make MO that much more fun to play.

  SHOE788

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 715

3/08/12 4:19:10 PM#14
Originally posted by deathshroud
Originally posted by Betel
Originally posted by deathshroud                                            

 the prospect of real npc guards, real mobs that are guards is quite intruiging and wil lbe a first when you consider the whole alignemnet system will pretty much rest in the hands of these guards and their ability to control both pve and pvp around cities. Of course npc like guards have been woefully seen in games like aoc and eve but the ai there had no choices to make, no specific attacks to think of and little to do other than kill without command and follow a navmesh. MO's npc guard ai seems to take it much further.

What? How many MMO's have you played? EQ had a much more complex alignment/reputation system that meant even within the same city some guards might attack you, UO had Chaos/Order as well as the regular murderer/reputation system, etc.

When you state "AI had no choices to make", what do you mean? If you mean no decisions on who to attack you are wrong, and if you mean no decisions as to how to attack (combat AI) then you are also wrong. Can you clarify that point?

 

havent played EQ no, i belive something similar to chaos/order is planned at a later date, what i mean is that there is no ai in eves guards they just pursue they have no pathing because its in space and there are no altenrate attacks at all, the aoc guards leash back a short distance persue reletenlessly in a controled enviroment. In MO guards have varied attacks there are no restrictive boundries in MO or load screens so the guards could potentially have to pursue over a varied amount of terrain, the whole blue/red alignemnt is going to be relying on this 1 system working correctly so theres alot resting on this AI working and hence why it is intriguing to see the results. IMO there is no ai in eves guards or just about any of the mobs in eve.  bleeive MO's guards will provide a real pve challenge over the guards of most mmos with actual rewards to defeating them.

 

Hopefully it will reach that stage but theres alot more work i imagine before anyone can start claiming to have created a revolutionary ai for mmorpgs. But the video impressed and showed proof of concept and the thought of this style of npc guard ai alone is something to be excited about even if the ai doesnt prove to be anything other than a typical mmorpg ai.

Henrik will overhype and underdeliver - spectatularly. In the one on one with the guard in the video, the guard does nothing but a scripted sequence of block, swing, block, swing. The timings are exactly the same and never varied. That is not AI, it is a fixed script.

I agree that it will under deliver if your expecting it to be exactly as hyped, but those who arent fooled by hype may still be impressed. It is of coruse gonig to be buggy thats expected.

 

At no point does it look scripted, i am not seeing a repeated pattern at all there is nothing in that video to suggest it is scripted, it could potentially be but their are no signs to suggest so and the most likely thing is its merely random which mvoe the guard will do. So i fail to understand your conclusion that the fight was scripted when there is 0 evidence in the video to support this.

 

 answers to your answers


Not scripted? Lmao

The guard swings his weapon every 3.5 seconds or so, and blocks in between attacks. he isn't even "reactively" blocking, it's just blocking and hope he gets hit when hes blocking.

That's scripted behavior bro.

  Toferio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 1461

3/08/12 4:22:56 PM#15
Originally posted by SHOE788
Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 answers to your answers


Not scripted? Lmao

The guard swings his weapon every 3.5 seconds or so, and blocks in between attacks. he isn't even "reactively" blocking, it's just blocking and hope he gets hit when hes blocking.

That's scripted behavior bro.

Um, I dont like defending MO, but scripted behavior is not the same as giving a creature a basic attack speed it follows.. I think you are using the term bit wrong there. A preset attack speed for the sake of balance is not the same as whole combat being scripted. 

  SHOE788

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 715

3/08/12 4:25:42 PM#16
Originally posted by Toferio
Originally posted by SHOE788
Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 answers to your answers


Not scripted? Lmao

The guard swings his weapon every 3.5 seconds or so, and blocks in between attacks. he isn't even "reactively" blocking, it's just blocking and hope he gets hit when hes blocking.

That's scripted behavior bro.

Um, I dont like defending MO, but scripted behavior is not the same as giving a creature a basic attack speed it follows.. I think you are using the term bit wrong there. A preset attack speed for the sake of balance is not the same as whole combat being scripted. 

Attack speed is a scripted behavior. That's not "intelligence".

If a guard is deciding how fast to attack or when to attack, that is intelligence.

If a guard is swinging at predetermined intervals, that is scripting.

  deathshroud

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1392

3/09/12 1:55:23 AM#17
Originally posted by SHOE788
Originally posted by Toferio
Originally posted by SHOE788
Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 answers to your answers


Not scripted? Lmao

The guard swings his weapon every 3.5 seconds or so, and blocks in between attacks. he isn't even "reactively" blocking, it's just blocking and hope he gets hit when hes blocking.

That's scripted behavior bro.

Um, I dont like defending MO, but scripted behavior is not the same as giving a creature a basic attack speed it follows.. I think you are using the term bit wrong there. A preset attack speed for the sake of balance is not the same as whole combat being scripted. 

Attack speed is a scripted behavior. That's not "intelligence".

If a guard is deciding how fast to attack or when to attack, that is intelligence.

If a guard is swinging at predetermined intervals, that is scripting.

 attack speed isnt scripted its coded. there is no pattern to the way the ai is acting so there is no suggestion that any of its behaviour is scripted. Could it be scripted? its possible. Is it likely? not really. what is the msot likely ai routine? its all random, However each attack is coded obviously but theres a big diference between coding something and scripting something.

 

There is 0 evidence in this video to supprot your argument for it being a scripted set of animations. It appears to be completely random which attack the ai will perform. But right now your making me question why i even bother arguing with you hatebois, except shoe who im in love with :D

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  Worstluck

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 1280

No man controls my destiny... especially not one who attacks downwind and stinks of garlic.

3/09/12 1:59:59 AM#18

Doesn't look all that special tbh, but if the NPC's will act like that, smoothly, then it's already an inprovement lol.  At least they bother to share what they are working on.  There are many developers who would not bother to post anything like that for the community. 

  SHOE788

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 715

3/09/12 2:20:48 AM#19
Originally posted by deathshroud
Originally posted by SHOE788
Originally posted by Toferio
Originally posted by SHOE788
Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 answers to your answers


Not scripted? Lmao

The guard swings his weapon every 3.5 seconds or so, and blocks in between attacks. he isn't even "reactively" blocking, it's just blocking and hope he gets hit when hes blocking.

That's scripted behavior bro.

Um, I dont like defending MO, but scripted behavior is not the same as giving a creature a basic attack speed it follows.. I think you are using the term bit wrong there. A preset attack speed for the sake of balance is not the same as whole combat being scripted. 

Attack speed is a scripted behavior. That's not "intelligence".

If a guard is deciding how fast to attack or when to attack, that is intelligence.

If a guard is swinging at predetermined intervals, that is scripting.

 attack speed isnt scripted its coded. there is no pattern to the way the ai is acting so there is no suggestion that any of its behaviour is scripted. Could it be scripted? its possible. Is it likely? not really. what is the msot likely ai routine? its all random, However each attack is coded obviously but theres a big diference between coding something and scripting something.

 

There is 0 evidence in this video to supprot your argument for it being a scripted set of animations. It appears to be completely random which attack the ai will perform. But right now your making me question why i even bother arguing with you hatebois, except shoe who im in love with :D


"Attack speed isn't scripted it's coded"

Okay, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about so I'll give you a small enlightenment.

1. Scripts ARE code

2. The context of "scripting" for gaming (and even programming) means anything that has predetermined behavior (which includes random). If we handed a script to an actor and he read it, no matter how many times he read the script it would remain unchanged and his speech would remain the same.

3. If a monster attacks at 3.5 second intervals, there is a SCRIPT that's CODED to make him attack in those intervals.

4. The guard is scripted to attack in intervals and scripted to block when not attacking, thus there is no "AI" to be had here.

  wmada2k

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 196

 
OP  3/09/12 2:26:21 AM#20

Jesus, seems here are plenty of ppl that cannot read. IT IS A FIRST DRAFT! So no, there are nothing "special" here, Yes, the guards seems to have 2 attack modes... and one block mode... etc etc...

We all agree that it is in the right way for the AI in MO right? Why not wait until the finished version of the AI is there, and then talk about it? 

This is purely a video showing where the AI is now compared to what it was before!

Sighs, now im off to something more meaningful!

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