can have your opinion,i have no problem with anyones opinion,so where you get this 'i lose' from is beyond me lol.

Let's get down to facts, no matter how you see WOW, the fact remains it's not an open world MMO,this is a 100% fact,sorry to bust your bubble but truth is truth.

Feeling like a massive world does not means it is an open world.

The OP ask people to correct him and i have done.

You don't care about the small difference but we are not talking about whether elocke cares,we are talking about what makes a MMO a true open world.

I don't need to convince anyone because what i'm saying is true.

Does WOW have open dungeons like Vanguard and EQ had before LDON,does WOW force me to use a loading screen to get from one island to another?

Yes or no..

 

I said "lose" because you seem to be on some crusade here for us to acknowledge your post as being the end all and be all of the conversation.  Sorry, I won't do that.  Second, you DO seem to need to "convince" everyone that what you are saying is true because you haven't stopped posting about it.  You then topped it off by getting defensive when someone asked you to provide games to prove your point, which you didn't do until someone else mentioned Vanguard. You also keep calling the CONTINENTS in WoW Islands.  Stop doing that.  Lol.  sheesh.  Since you keep beating a dead horse here, I'm going to assume you are trolling and just arguing to argue.

Unless you can climb the mountains and sail the seas and swim and there is no phasing or instancing or loading screens it is not an open world. There should be no place in the game you can see but not reach.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by tixylix

WoW had a great open world when I played before they ruined it with battlegrounds and the ability to enter instances from anywhere. Before all this you had to travel to an instance which took up real world space and you had to enter a structure or cave that lead to the instance. So that is why WoW's instances felt acceptable to me and the fact the rest of the world was seamless.

I dunno what it is like now but when I left it was going down the shitter.

Yeah i was there before Battlegrounds but WOW always had instances and loading screens between islands,no other way to get across the sea unless you load.

That's why WOW was never a seameless open world MMO.

I think you're nit picking.  Sure you load into instances and have to load between the two (now four major) land masses but thats cus theres a huge ocean or time/portal/wavey thing in the way, I can run,walk,fly from booty bay in the south of the eastern kingoms isle to the plaguelands in the north without a loading screen.. depending on the route I take I would pass by a dozen or more zones without a loading screen.  The Eastern kingdons Isle is estimated to be 100km/s in total that I can run around in without a loading screen.. I would consider that open world and any game that behaved similar would IMHO be open world.

Seriously i'm not nit picking,a MMO world is totally open or it isn't,you cant have it both ways.Nearly being open is not the same as being open.

I play football and sometimes i nearly score a goal but i miss,so that means i didn't score,their is no inbetween.I do the lottery and i had 5 numbers,you need six for the jackpot but five nearly gave me the winning prize but it didn't because i didn't have six numbers.

In WOW you can go from one area to another on said island but to cross a sea or do i dungeon i have to enter an instance or load a screen to cross the sea.

In vanguard i go to the dungeon and it's part of the open world and i can find other people using the same dungeon because it's a open world.I need to go from qalia to thestra,sure i can use a riftway but i can also fly,ride or sail their,i'm not forced to use a loading screen because it's an open world.

You see the differance from Vanguard and WOW,would you call LOTRO an open world MMO?

People here can get the hump all they like but the fact remains that games like WOW and LOTRO and any game with instances are not true open world MMO,that was the question of the OP.

Perhaps the next true open world MMO will be AA but it's not Tera and it never was WOW.

So you can go from the trial island to any other continent without loading?

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by tixylix

WoW had a great open world when I played before they ruined it with battlegrounds and the ability to enter instances from anywhere. Before all this you had to travel to an instance which took up real world space and you had to enter a structure or cave that lead to the instance. So that is why WoW's instances felt acceptable to me and the fact the rest of the world was seamless.

I dunno what it is like now but when I left it was going down the shitter.

Yeah i was there before Battlegrounds but WOW always had instances and loading screens between islands,no other way to get across the sea unless you load.

That's why WOW was never a seameless open world MMO.

I think you're nit picking.  Sure you load into instances and have to load between the two (now four major) land masses but thats cus theres a huge ocean or time/portal/wavey thing in the way, I can run,walk,fly from booty bay in the south of the eastern kingoms isle to the plaguelands in the north without a loading screen.. depending on the route I take I would pass by a dozen or more zones without a loading screen.  The Eastern kingdons Isle is estimated to be 100km/s in total that I can run around in without a loading screen.. I would consider that open world and any game that behaved similar would IMHO be open world.

Seriously i'm not nit picking,a MMO world is totally open or it isn't,you cant have it both ways.Nearly being open is not the same as being open.

I play football and sometimes i nearly score a goal but i miss,so that means i didn't score,their is no inbetween.I do the lottery and i had 5 numbers,you need six for the jackpot but five nearly gave me the winning prize but it didn't because i didn't have six numbers.

In WOW you can go from one area to another on said island but to cross a sea or do i dungeon i have to enter an instance or load a screen to cross the sea.

In vanguard i go to the dungeon and it's part of the open world and i can find other people using the same dungeon because it's a open world.I need to go from qalia to thestra,sure i can use a riftway but i can also fly,ride or sail their,i'm not forced to use a loading screen because it's an open world.

You see the differance from Vanguard and WOW,would you call LOTRO an open world MMO?

People here can get the hump all they like but the fact remains that games like WOW and LOTRO and any game with instances are not true open world MMO,that was the question of the OP.

Perhaps the next true open world MMO will be AA but it's not Tera and it never was WOW.

So you can go from the trial island to any other continent without loading?

Lol..the trail island is not part of the Vanguard main world,it's a trail island.Even the dungeon on the trail island is open but nice try though.

Look, i have no problem with WOW and i agree to a certain extent it's a very open MMO,you do feel like you are in an big open world.

Compared to AOC and swtor it's way more open.

Originally posted by PsyMike3d

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Teala

ArcheAge will be the next seamless world.

This.

+1

I'll see you guys there

Originally posted by Lille7

Originally posted by Superduper69

Originally posted by Lille7

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by tixylix

WoW had a great open world when I played before they ruined it with battlegrounds and the ability to enter instances from anywhere. Before all this you had to travel to an instance which took up real world space and you had to enter a structure or cave that lead to the instance. So that is why WoW's instances felt acceptable to me and the fact the rest of the world was seamless.

I dunno what it is like now but when I left it was going down the shitter.

Yeah i was there before Battlegrounds but WOW always had instances and loading screens between islands,no other way to get across the sea unless you load.

That's why WOW was never a seameless open world MMO.

I think you're nit picking.  Sure you load into instances and have to load between the two (now four major) land masses but thats cus theres a huge ocean or time/portal/wavey thing in the way, I can run,walk,fly from booty bay in the south of the eastern kingoms isle to the plaguelands in the north without a loading screen.. depending on the route I take I would pass by a dozen or more zones without a loading screen.  The Eastern kingdons Isle is estimated to be 100km/s in total that I can run around in without a loading screen.. I would consider that open world and any game that behaved similar would IMHO be open world.

Seriously i'm not nit picking,a MMO world is totally open or it isn't,you cant have it both ways.Nearly being open is not the same as being open.

I play football and sometimes i nearly score a goal but i miss,so that means i didn't score,their is no inbetween.I do the lottery and i had 5 numbers,you need six for the jackpot but five nearly gave me the winning prize but it didn't because i didn't have six numbers.

In WOW you can go from one area to another on said island but to cross a sea or do i dungeon i have to enter an instance or load a screen to cross the sea.

In vanguard i go to the dungeon and it's part of the open world and i can find other people using the same dungeon because it's a open world.I need to go from qalia to thestra,sure i can use a riftway but i can also fly,ride or sail their,i'm not forced to use a loading screen because it's an open world.

You see the differance from Vanguard and WOW,would you call LOTRO an open world MMO?

People here can get the hump all they like but the fact remains that games like WOW and LOTRO and any game with instances are not true open world MMO,that was the question of the OP.

Perhaps the next true open world MMO will be AA but it's not Tera and it never was WOW.

You just can't let anyone have the opinion that WoW is open world to them, can you?  Guess what, you lose in that respect.  No matter how hard you try to convince us, those of us who feel WoW is "open world", like myself, will continue to do so.  Now, do I feel Vangaurd is "more" open? sure.  Do I really care about a small difference?  NO.  I only care when the game is butchered into instance oblivion like Vindictus or EQ2.  That's when I would be "nitpicking" at this very RELATIVE and SUBJECTIVE issue.

Anyway, along the lines of "feeling" open world and seamless, up and coming I believe ArcheAge and Tera will fit that bill.  Also, while GW2 sports loading screens between zones, they say the zones are fairly massive and can feel "open world"

Another game that used loading screens per zone but always felt like a massive living world, was FFXI.  So, go figure.

I feel that my brown desk is blue. So im gonna say its blue, but its really brown. But it makes me feel better to call it blue. Does that make my desk blue?

 

Sometimes it's not really a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

There is no such thing as a fact when it comes to ever changing features and definitions of MMO and its elements. However, in this case facts can be disputed very easily.

fact/fakt/

Noun:	A thing that is indisputably the case. Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.

 

How can it be disputed that WoW is a not seamless world? Going from storwind into the stockades, tada loading screen, a seam in the world. Not seamless. Open world? Going from stormwind into the stockade, you are now closed of from the rest of the world. Not open.

Because people interpret meaning of open / seamless world in different ways? there is not a universal definition for it. So to claim it is a FACT is just wrong.

Originally posted by Urborgein

I can´t believe that you have not talked about Ultima Online, the only seamless MMO in the world. Instances, houses, continents... all that without a single load screen...

Not the only one.  World War II Online (aka Battlefield Europe) is completely seamless.  In fact it is SO seamless, you wish it actually had zone warps to cover the massive distances, lol.  Half scale Western Europe at your fingertips.  Fly a plane from Western Germany to England: Set your trim for autopilot and take a real life nap while you wait to reach your destination ;)

Also, isn't Fallen Earth seamless? I don't remember loading screens...but it's been a while.

lots of old school games are open world.

Also, just because I need to stir shit up, EVE is many things, but it is not open. Much of the transitions are cleverly hidden, but you still have loading UIs after jumping and entering structures.  If it were truly open, you'd be able to fly your ship right into the station without a transition. Can't do it.

Also warping is just a clever way to load your destination behind the scenes. Don't get me wrong..it's quite brilliant...but it's still a fancy loading screen.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by tixylix

WoW had a great open world when I played before they ruined it with battlegrounds and the ability to enter instances from anywhere. Before all this you had to travel to an instance which took up real world space and you had to enter a structure or cave that lead to the instance. So that is why WoW's instances felt acceptable to me and the fact the rest of the world was seamless.

I dunno what it is like now but when I left it was going down the shitter.

Yeah i was there before Battlegrounds but WOW always had instances and loading screens between islands,no other way to get across the sea unless you load.

That's why WOW was never a seameless open world MMO.

I think you're nit picking.  Sure you load into instances and have to load between the two (now four major) land masses but thats cus theres a huge ocean or time/portal/wavey thing in the way, I can run,walk,fly from booty bay in the south of the eastern kingoms isle to the plaguelands in the north without a loading screen.. depending on the route I take I would pass by a dozen or more zones without a loading screen.  The Eastern kingdons Isle is estimated to be 100km/s in total that I can run around in without a loading screen.. I would consider that open world and any game that behaved similar would IMHO be open world.

Seriously i'm not nit picking,a MMO world is totally open or it isn't,you cant have it both ways.Nearly being open is not the same as being open.

I play football and sometimes i nearly score a goal but i miss,so that means i didn't score,their is no inbetween.I do the lottery and i had 5 numbers,you need six for the jackpot but five nearly gave me the winning prize but it didn't because i didn't have six numbers.

In WOW you can go from one area to another on said island but to cross a sea or do i dungeon i have to enter an instance or load a screen to cross the sea.

In vanguard i go to the dungeon and it's part of the open world and i can find other people using the same dungeon because it's a open world.I need to go from qalia to thestra,sure i can use a riftway but i can also fly,ride or sail their,i'm not forced to use a loading screen because it's an open world.

You see the differance from Vanguard and WOW,would you call LOTRO an open world MMO?

People here can get the hump all they like but the fact remains that games like WOW and LOTRO and any game with instances are not true open world MMO,that was the question of the OP.

Perhaps the next true open world MMO will be AA but it's not Tera and it never was WOW.

So you can go from the trial island to any other continent without loading?

Lol..the trail island is not part of the Vanguard main world,it's a trail island.Even the dungeon on the trail island is open but nice try though.

Look, i have no problem with WOW and i agree to a certain extent it's a very open MMO,you do feel like you are in an big open world.

Compared to AOC and swtor it's way more open.

So the Trial Island IS an instanced area, which the majority of people go through, so...by your words, Vanguard isn't completely seamless or open either. Your words, not mine.

/owned

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by kevjards

Originally posted by Metentso

WoW is the closest you can have to an open world.

dont think so..vanguard is the closest..no instances at all apart from raid ,you can sail round the world..no load screens at all.

Even APW is not a instance,you still see other players in the zone.APW also has contested areas where other guilds can kill the bosses before you get their,not like an instance where it's only you and your group.

I agree with you,seems that many in this thread giving the WOW is an open world mmo have not played games like Vanguard where the world really is open.

When Vanguard goes FTP any day soon,many of these people will be in for a shock and see what a real open world MMO feels like.

yeah dont know wot made me think apw was instanced..been a long time since i was in there actually,thnx for putting me right..i think it will be kind of funny when you get some people from WOW who have never played Vg before or a hard game like it.hehe..no instant gratification here,prepare to get battered off the 6 dots lol.off point a bit sorry.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by tixylix

WoW had a great open world when I played before they ruined it with battlegrounds and the ability to enter instances from anywhere. Before all this you had to travel to an instance which took up real world space and you had to enter a structure or cave that lead to the instance. So that is why WoW's instances felt acceptable to me and the fact the rest of the world was seamless.

I dunno what it is like now but when I left it was going down the shitter.

Yeah i was there before Battlegrounds but WOW always had instances and loading screens between islands,no other way to get across the sea unless you load.

That's why WOW was never a seameless open world MMO.

I think you're nit picking.  Sure you load into instances and have to load between the two (now four major) land masses but thats cus theres a huge ocean or time/portal/wavey thing in the way, I can run,walk,fly from booty bay in the south of the eastern kingoms isle to the plaguelands in the north without a loading screen.. depending on the route I take I would pass by a dozen or more zones without a loading screen.  The Eastern kingdons Isle is estimated to be 100km/s in total that I can run around in without a loading screen.. I would consider that open world and any game that behaved similar would IMHO be open world.

Seriously i'm not nit picking,a MMO world is totally open or it isn't,you cant have it both ways.Nearly being open is not the same as being open.

I play football and sometimes i nearly score a goal but i miss,so that means i didn't score,their is no inbetween.I do the lottery and i had 5 numbers,you need six for the jackpot but five nearly gave me the winning prize but it didn't because i didn't have six numbers.

In WOW you can go from one area to another on said island but to cross a sea or do i dungeon i have to enter an instance or load a screen to cross the sea.

In vanguard i go to the dungeon and it's part of the open world and i can find other people using the same dungeon because it's a open world.I need to go from qalia to thestra,sure i can use a riftway but i can also fly,ride or sail their,i'm not forced to use a loading screen because it's an open world.

You see the differance from Vanguard and WOW,would you call LOTRO an open world MMO?

People here can get the hump all they like but the fact remains that games like WOW and LOTRO and any game with instances are not true open world MMO,that was the question of the OP.

Perhaps the next true open world MMO will be AA but it's not Tera and it never was WOW.

So you can go from the trial island to any other continent without loading?

Lol..the trail island is not part of the Vanguard main world,it's a trail island.Even the dungeon on the trail island is open but nice try though.

Look, i have no problem with WOW and i agree to a certain extent it's a very open MMO,you do feel like you are in an big open world.

Compared to AOC and swtor it's way more open.

So the Trial Island IS an instanced area, which the majority of people go through, so...by your words, Vanguard isn't completely seamless or open either. Your words, not mine.

/owned

omg how sad..trial island was added later,was not part of release,it ws supposed to help funnel newcomers to the game so they had peeps to group with.and if you idea of comment /owned makes you look good,you must be about 12yr old to come out with that one.also the trial island is exactly what it says,a trial of the game..if you like it you pay to go into main game.

Originally posted by PurpleCliff

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by Metentso

WoW is the closest you can have to an open world.

Nope, it's not and it's not an open world.

Just wondering what games are an open world then, in your opinion? Sandboxes like SWG or something?

Lineage II is an Open World. You can explore every inch and never hit a load screen. Well it was anyways.

Bren

Originally posted by Mardukk
Vanguard def wins the award for closest to open/seamless world. Not sure how this even an argument. Go play it and find out.

Actually, if you look at a few other games out there, Vanguard is a tiny fraction less open--hardly enough to quibble about, yet just enough to prevent it from gaining the title "most open". 

Originally posted by Mardukk
Vanguard def wins the award for closest to open/seamless world. Not sure how this even an argument. Go play it and find out.

Huge world yes, BUT not seamless.

Those little hitches as you run cross country, when you leave your torch light on the ground? When your Flyers auto-run suddenly turns off? When your mount vanishes for no known reason? Chunk-lines. When they load in the Zone, errr, Chunk... They never got around to making the game truly seamless as they were intending.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

 

I was going to mention Vanguard, i have played it since release and have 5 level 55 toons.It has no instances and no invisible walls.I can stand in one spot and run or fly and a day later end up in the same spot if i don't get killed on the way.I can go as far as the eye can see,from Qalia to Thestra to Kojan,it's all wide open.

WOW is a closed box compared to Vanguard.

Was thinking the same thing here. Vanguard is a pretty sweet open world if ever there was one. ANd the game overall is pretty decent as well.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

 

I was going to mention Vanguard, i have played it since release and have 5 level 55 toons.It has no instances and no invisible walls.I can stand in one spot and run or fly and a day later end up in the same spot if i don't get killed on the way.I can go as far as the eye can see,from Qalia to Thestra to Kojan,it's all wide open.

WOW is a closed box compared to Vanguard.

 

Really. I was completely unaware VG allowed circumnavigation. <boggle>  Learn sumpin new every day.

Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

Originally posted by Mardukk
Vanguard def wins the award for closest to open/seamless world. Not sure how this even an argument. Go play it and find out.

Huge world yes, BUT not seamless.

Those little hitches as you run cross country, when you leave your torch light on the ground? When your Flyers auto-run suddenly turns off? When your mount vanishes for no known reason? Chunk-lines. When they load in the Zone, errr, Chunk... They never got around to making the game truly seamless as they were intending.

yeah i get what you mean..not sure but i think they are called cluster servers,could be wrong ,but at the time this game was groundbreaking in its attemp to make it has open as possible.i just wish someone had the balls in the western hemisphere to make another game like this..without having so many bugs on release,i still think this game would be highly populated.yeah the chunks were a bit annoying..i guess they were maybe meant to be load screens there ,not sure .used to hate crashing when crossing one lol.