Gaming is now big business.  Companies are more concerned with marketing the game and making it another global esport than making it fun.  Long gone is one of the most important parts of an MMORPG, the RPG.  It's the player's story.  MMORPG just means interaction of the player's story with the stories of others.  It's supposed to feel personal.  The player is supposed to feel like they are building and controlling their character.  It's supposed to have options and choices that make it your own.  Choice has been murdered and hidden in a dumpster in the alley in the name of balance and fake equality.  Yet, we are not anywhere near closer to anything resembling balance than we were when we had more choices.

These games still launch incomplete and full of bugs.  No game is perfect or bug free, but that is not what we are talking about here.  Acceptable bugs are ones that happen under obscure scenarios or combinations.  Not ones that happen predictably under normal conditions and were already reported during beta.  Missing features with nothing more than a carrot on a string called "Soon.".  Investors pushing for their quick returns and missing out on long term profits that would dwarf what they end up with and ruin the reputation of company after company.  Who, use insane statements of how so and so doesn't do it any better or does the same thing as an excuse.

When will they learn that game play is what matters?  Did minecraft get popular because of it's amazing graphics and voice over cinematic cut scenes?

I could go on about all the things about SWTOR that I don't like or the state of performance and bugs.  But, that horse needs a good five minute break before the beating starts again.  Between what Blizzard is doing to WoW, new games flopping like fish with tourettes, and AO still hoping people will buy that a new engine is coming "soon", I just don't have any hope left for the MMORPG market.  Guess I should buy a console and pay another $15-$20 for a map pack... *sigh*

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Meerkat93

Originally posted by Aerowyn

and I'm sure the people who still want ot play these type games are eating this one up from 1-49.. many people that are looking for a change and were hoping with the hype, IP, and budget behind this one we would at least get a taste of something new gameplay wise but sadly we did not...

So the TOR offered noting new in terms of gameplay?

 

Stop, just stop...

 

Just say, "TOR is not what I am looking for in a game, the COMBAT is like WoW." Because no sane person would say the highlighted. Unless you're deaf then sorry.

what "new" did TOR offer gameplay wise? the story aspect is not what I consider gameplay. Since you are not actually playing the cutscene you are watching it. But anyways please enlighten me to what great new features this game has brought us.. the companion system has been done before, basic trinity system done before, basic 3 talent trees done before, warzones done before, operations/flaspoints done before. I'm curious what's new with the general gameplay?

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,[1][2] and in particular with video games.[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,[2][5] connection between player and the game,[6] challenges[7] and overcoming them,[8] plot[9] and player's connection with it.[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,[9][10] or audio elements.[9]

From wiki.

I also hate how you say crap like, "Well X has been done before." it makes you argument seem rather defensive. Companions as crafters and the fact that they can fill roles such as healers and tanks is pretty nifty, (GW1 wasn't really an MMO in most peoples opinion).

If you want to play that game then nothing is innovative. GW2 dynamic events? Rift did that. AA ship combat? Too bad Darkfall did that.

Its a cycle that can never break.

Originally posted by Meerkat93

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Meerkat93

Originally posted by Aerowyn

and I'm sure the people who still want ot play these type games are eating this one up from 1-49.. many people that are looking for a change and were hoping with the hype, IP, and budget behind this one we would at least get a taste of something new gameplay wise but sadly we did not...

So the TOR offered noting new in terms of gameplay?

 

Stop, just stop...

 

Just say, "TOR is not what I am looking for in a game, the COMBAT is like WoW." Because no sane person would say the highlighted. Unless you're deaf then sorry.

what "new" did TOR offer gameplay wise? the story aspect is not what I consider gameplay. Since you are not actually playing the cutscene you are watching it. But anyways please enlighten me to what great new features this game has brought us.. the companion system has been done before, basic trinity system done before, basic 3 talent trees done before, warzones done before, operations/flaspoints done before. I'm curious what's new with the general gameplay?

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,[1][2] and in particular with video games.[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,[2][5] connection between player and the game,[6] challenges[7] and overcoming them,[8] plot[9] and player's connection with it.[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics,[9][10] or audio elements.[9]

 

From wiki.

 

I also hate how you say crap like, "Well X has been done before." it makes you argument seem rather defensive. Companions as crafters and the fact that they can fill roles such as healers and tanks is pretty nifty, (GW1 wasn't really an MMO in most peoples opinion).

 

If you want to play that game then nothing is innovative. GW2 dynamic events? Rift did that. AA ship combat? Too bad Darkfall did that.

 

Its a cycle that can never break.

ok ill bite we can move to another point what did swtor do to improve the already standing features. To me the game while not offering much new but a fully VO story did not seem to try and advance those basic features in anyway. Much of the footage seen on upcomming games do indeed use already existing said features but seem to be expanding on them in a very big way. My argument is if you want to copy a game that is fine but at least improve on what has been done before. To me the end product of swtor feels like a game that tried so hard to copy what has been done before while adding on a bioware staple story system yet they failed to improve upon any of those basic features from games past. 

Also I agree companion system is nice but focus's the game in a more solo centric state making the game geared even more toward the solo side. Rappelz is another game thats been out for a long time and has a great companion type system built into the game. There have been others but I think rappelz did it very well. Not saying swtor's companion system is bad or anything to me it just isn't anything that makes the game

Originally posted by Croatoan

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post at all.

But having read alot of the comments here and there about SWTOR not living up to the hype, being a shit game, etc, I have to wonder - am I not seeing something?

 

I have read the comments about the engine being bad, yet I play the game with no problems - and not on a muscle-machine CPU either.

 

I have read about people complaing about the game being basically a single player game with MMO aspects tossed in for merit.  Yet I can find a group minutes after logging in.

 

I know alot of people were expecting a better product.  But to me, the game seems ok.  What things am I overlooking?

 

You probably like Themepark games? nothing wrong with that but for people who need more to get any Kicks out of a game SWTOR probably doesnt do it? Here is a link to the TERA EU forums the moderators over there belive in Freedom of speach https://forum.tera-europe.com/showthread.php?t=41392&page=12 Read Moorbidboogyeman post.... Replace WoW with SWTOR and you know more about how I really feel about people playing these games....

Disclaimer "Parentel advisory explicit Content" if you decide to read it....

Originally posted by Meerkat93

Expecially when the major complaint against this game seems to be, "Its too WoW like."

From people that actually bought and played the game? That doesn't seem to be their complaint(s) for most. Not at all.

Most knew what this game was patterned after. It isn't like BW hid it from anyone. Many of the posters using that reasoning were never interested in this game simply because of that reason you listed so they never purchased it anyways.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by Croatoan

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post at all.

But having read alot of the comments here and there about SWTOR not living up to the hype, being a shit game, etc, I have to wonder - am I not seeing something?

 

I have read the comments about the engine being bad, yet I play the game with no problems - and not on a muscle-machine CPU either.

 

I have read about people complaing about the game being basically a single player game with MMO aspects tossed in for merit.  Yet I can find a group minutes after logging in.

 

I know alot of people were expecting a better product.  But to me, the game seems ok.  What things am I overlooking?

 

You probably like Themepark games? nothing wrong with that but for people who need more to get any Kicks out of a game SWTOR probably doesnt do it? Here is a link to the TERA EU forums the moderators over there belive in Freedom of speach https://forum.tera-europe.com/showthread.php?t=41392&page=12 Read Moorbidboogyeman post.... Replace WoW with SWTOR and you know more about how I really feel about people playing these games....

Disclaimer "Parentel advisory explicit Content" if you decide to read it....

some of his post is true in my eyes but sort of ironic since TERA itself is very much a clone game in itself and follows much of what he is complaining about.

Also i find there is a big difference between objective oriented PVP and gankfests like TERA pvp servers had become in the last beta weekend...

TOR's storyline and presentation compared to virtually any other MMO is like Mortal Kombat 9's story mode compared to Street Fighter 4's. That alone is a dealmaker for a lot of people.

If you want a good Star Wars RPG experience and you don't mind not being able to group up all the time, this is a fantastic game to play through. Treat it like you would a single player RPG, a adverture where you can develop your character's personality and skills and savor your impact on the rest of the game universe. There really isn't much to do in the game once you hit max level, but when it's all said and done you'll have more than made your money's worth in entertainment at that point.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by Croatoan

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post at all.

But having read alot of the comments here and there about SWTOR not living up to the hype, being a shit game, etc, I have to wonder - am I not seeing something?

 

I have read the comments about the engine being bad, yet I play the game with no problems - and not on a muscle-machine CPU either.

 

I have read about people complaing about the game being basically a single player game with MMO aspects tossed in for merit.  Yet I can find a group minutes after logging in.

 

I know alot of people were expecting a better product.  But to me, the game seems ok.  What things am I overlooking?

 

You probably like Themepark games? nothing wrong with that but for people who need more to get any Kicks out of a game SWTOR probably doesnt do it? Here is a link to the TERA EU forums the moderators over there belive in Freedom of speach https://forum.tera-europe.com/showthread.php?t=41392&page=12 Read Moorbidboogyeman post.... Replace WoW with SWTOR and you know more about how I really feel about people playing these games....

Disclaimer "Parentel advisory explicit Content" if you decide to read it....

some of his post is true in my eyes but sort of ironic since TERA itself is very much a clone game in itself and follows much of what he is complaining about.

Also i find there is a big difference between objective oriented PVP and gankfests like TERA pvp servers had become in the last beta weekend...

Hmm Some people want TERA to turn all carebear but we are fighting them off :).

Originally posted by Vryheid

TOR's storyline and presentation compared to virtually any other MMO is like Mortal Kombat 9's story mode compared to Street Fighter 4's. That alone is a dealmaker for a lot of people.

If you want a good Star Wars RPG experience and you don't mind not being able to group up all the time, this is a fantastic game to play through. Treat it like you would a single player RPG, a adverture where you can develop your character's personality and skills and savor your impact on the rest of the game universe. There really isn't much to do in the game once you hit max level, but when it's all said and done you'll have more than made your money's worth in entertainment at that point.

Street fighter 4 is a much better game though I think that says it all.. as Im guessing Mortal Kombat had a better storyline? But street fighter is a far superior Fighter hands down..

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by Croatoan

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post at all.

But having read alot of the comments here and there about SWTOR not living up to the hype, being a shit game, etc, I have to wonder - am I not seeing something?

 

I have read the comments about the engine being bad, yet I play the game with no problems - and not on a muscle-machine CPU either.

 

I have read about people complaing about the game being basically a single player game with MMO aspects tossed in for merit.  Yet I can find a group minutes after logging in.

 

I know alot of people were expecting a better product.  But to me, the game seems ok.  What things am I overlooking?

 

You probably like Themepark games? nothing wrong with that but for people who need more to get any Kicks out of a game SWTOR probably doesnt do it? Here is a link to the TERA EU forums the moderators over there belive in Freedom of speach https://forum.tera-europe.com/showthread.php?t=41392&page=12 Read Moorbidboogyeman post.... Replace WoW with SWTOR and you know more about how I really feel about people playing these games....

Disclaimer "Parentel advisory explicit Content" if you decide to read it....

some of his post is true in my eyes but sort of ironic since TERA itself is very much a clone game in itself and follows much of what he is complaining about.

Also i find there is a big difference between objective oriented PVP and gankfests like TERA pvp servers had become in the last beta weekend...

Hmm Some people want TERA to turn all carebear but we are fighting them off :).

don't see how grieve killing people over and over and over is considered any fun but thats what was happening in TERAs last beta weekend.. If you consider that being carebear then to each his own...

Originally posted by Aerowyn

ok ill bite we can move to another point what did swtor do to improve the already standing features.

They took loading screens to a whole new level that no one ever expected, considered, or wanted in the least.

Well dude, it is nothing wrong with the game and i have same expirience to. But it is always like this, some people hate one game  and like some other, it is normal.You don't need to think even about that, if you like just play it.And it will be same with every game  on forums. Just watch when guild wars come out, you will see tons of people spiting on game just to make someone angry :). Who cares

---

Originally posted by Croatoan
This is not meant to be an inflammatory post at all.
But having read alot of the comments here and there about SWTOR not living up to the hype, being a shit game, etc, I have to wonder - am I not seeing something?
 
I have read the comments about the engine being bad, yet I play the game with no problems - and not on a muscle-machine CPU either.
 
I have read about people complaing about the game being basically a single player game with MMO aspects tossed in for merit.  Yet I can find a group minutes after logging in.
 
I know alot of people were expecting a better product.  But to me, the game seems ok.  What things am I overlooking?
 

---

Internet culture is predominantly negative. Anonymity breeds malice.

Originally posted by DannyGlover

Internet culture is predominantly negative. Anonymity breeds malice.

Theory and proof in the same sentence. Let me reward you the hypocrite medal.  ^_^

OP: High expectations getting crushed with a disappointing game lead to unhappyness and frustration. The reasons for the expectations getting crushed are of course player specific but I would assume a high number of people (especially PVPers) being disappointed with the harldy existing MMO features of this self claimed mmorpg.

Never expected TOR to be a good MMO but I bought it anyway. Even so, I quit playing 2 weeks later out of boredom. Its just not the kind of MMO I'm looking for and having realistic expectations didn't help make it any better for me.

Originally posted by Croatoan

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post at all.

But having read alot of the comments here and there about SWTOR not living up to the hype, being a shit game, etc, I have to wonder - am I not seeing something?

 

I have read the comments about the engine being bad, yet I play the game with no problems - and not on a muscle-machine CPU either.

 

I have read about people complaing about the game being basically a single player game with MMO aspects tossed in for merit.  Yet I can find a group minutes after logging in.

 

I know alot of people were expecting a better product.  But to me, the game seems ok.  What things am I overlooking?

 

You are overlooking the fact that this site is full of disgruntled MMO vets and sandbox fans. The casual MMO crowd are busy playing SWTOR or WoW and dont really care about posting on here.

Most people on here act like what they want is what the vast majority want, which it isnt, otherwise SWTOR and WoW wouldnt be so popular.

Originally posted by evilastro

You are overlooking the fact that this site is full of disgruntled MMO vets and sandbox fans. The casual MMO crowd are busy playing SWTOR or WoW and dont really care about posting on here.

Most people on here act like what they want is what the vast majority want, which it isnt, otherwise SWTOR and WoW wouldnt be so popular.

Or...you know...could just be people that were unhappy or disappointed with the game. Kind of early to put SWTOR in the same category as WoW. We still have no idea how popular this game is going to be in the long term. Even short term really at this point. It has been what? Three months? Way too soon. Over two million in sales which is very impressive however it appears they may be having some serious retention issues. We'll get a better look at this I suppose after their next quarter results come out.

Granted this applies to the doomsayers as well.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by evilastro

You are overlooking the fact that this site is full of disgruntled MMO vets and sandbox fans. The casual MMO crowd are busy playing SWTOR or WoW and dont really care about posting on here.

Most people on here act like what they want is what the vast majority want, which it isnt, otherwise SWTOR and WoW wouldnt be so popular.

Or...you know...could just be people that were unhappy or disappointed with the game. Kind of early to put SWTOR in the same category as WoW. We still have no idea how popular this game is going to be in the long term. Even short term really at this point. It has been what? Three months? Way too soon. Over two million in sales which is very impressive however it appears they may be having some serious retention issues. We'll get a better look at this I suppose after their next quarter results come out.

Granted this applies to the doomsayers as well.

Obviously they were unhappy, which relates to the posts that the OP was questioning. What I mentioned was that the demographic of this forum are not the same as players who enjoy the type of casual game that SWTOR / WoW are. Hence shallow theme parks get a lot of negative attention on here, even if there is nothing technically wrong with them aside from a lack of innovation.

I dont really care about how SWTOR fares in the future. Its not the game for me, but I am not naive enough to think that it isnt fun for more casual players, which is why it got good reviews from the mainstream gaming media.

Originally posted by evilastro

 Its not the game for me, but I am not naive enough to think that it isnt fun for more casual players, which is why it got good reviews from the mainstream gaming media.

It received over inflated reviews from most game sites because as usual they did not actually experience enough of the game to give a proper review. This isn't a jab at this game either. This is on the reviewers and is a common trend with them. They've been doing this fairly often lately. Most of those reviewers gave their review after only experiencing a small portion of the game. Which is the same reason you see some posters here wondering what the issues people are having with the game and then lo and behold a month or two later they're also complaining about the same things.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed this game and I think for some casuals this game is a great fit. For some...

As for the reviewers, after what has gone on with games like AoC, Warhammer, SWTOR, etc. all of which were grossly over rated most of them have lost any credibility with me. I'll take player's overall views on the game over these reviewers any day. Frankly regardless those on the extremes overall they give a much more balanced and objective review of the game than most of these supposed professionals do.

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by Aerowyn

ok ill bite we can move to another point what did swtor do to improve the already standing features.

They took loading screens to a whole new level that no one ever expected, considered, or wanted in the least.

EQ2 has far more loading screens than SWTOR.

And on another note unrelated to your post....

I am one of the "casual players" that is still playing this game and enjoying the story.  I also really enjoy reading and posting on MMORPG.com, HOWEVER.....this place is so toxic that it can eat away at any fun you're having.  I've never been one to care very much what other people say about things I like, which is why I continue to play ToR regardless of the venom here.  But after a while it does really start to get on your last nerve. It starts to make me very angry and negative usually before I take a break from it.

OP, I say.....enjoy the game for what's enjoyable to YOU.  Don't spend as much time on this site as you probaby do (I need to work on that myself).  I intend (and DID intend from purchase point) to play SWTOR to max level on both Republic and Imperial sides and then....leave the game.  I'm not a PvP'er and don't really care about the problems with Ilum or playing that part of the game.  If you ARE a PvP'er you may encounter unhappiness at max level from what I'm hearing.  Otherwise....if you're enjoying the game, just enjoy it for what YOU like in it.

Every SWTOR thread whether started for "good or evil" always ends up being a drawn out bitchfest.  It's so old.  But....I'm sure there will be more threads and more bitching.  C'est la vie.