Trending Games | WildStar | Elder Scrolls Online | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,642,606 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,076,483
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » ArenaNet: "Play your way" Jon Peters on Traits and Attributes

10 Pages First « 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 » Search
183 posts found
  User Deleted
2/29/12 1:54:06 PM#141
Originally posted by Naqaj

I agree, no point in further discussion, it all boils down to the numbers at this point. We'll see how it plays out in the next beta.

I proposed an alternative which you might be interested in.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172767&postcount=1805

I think it brings traits more in line with what I think we think they should be (not to put words in your mouth)

  Banisco

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/11
Posts: 241

I like to play with trolls.

2/29/12 2:02:15 PM#142
Originally posted by evicton

Also for the comment of no healing trees I would say this guy would be a somewhat decent healer. Now I understand you wouldn't play this as your traditional healer as a matter of fact I would prolly start the fight taking damage to get my health down as some of the better stuff kicks in at 25% health. There is alot of flexibilty here as well, healing turret, med kit or elixir gun, healing mist and with the trait grenades will also heal.  Also I've heard that one of the reason there won't be healers in this game is because heals have a long cool down but Automated Medical Response pretty much makes it possible for a good player to dance around 25% health and refresh his cooldowns every 90 seconds. Now granted in pvp it would be kinda hard to bounce around but its possible in pve.

 

http://www.gw2tools.com/#t-e-fapap:Vaa.aaa.ZbW.aaa.bZX

I think than more than a healer that build makes you quite resistant, and u can go with your bomb kit and drop all the love in the monsters faces.

  Naqaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1672

2/29/12 3:21:55 PM#143
Originally posted by cali59
Originally posted by Naqaj

I agree, no point in further discussion, it all boils down to the numbers at this point. We'll see how it plays out in the next beta.

I proposed an alternative which you might be interested in.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172767&postcount=1805

I think it brings traits more in line with what I think we think they should be (not to put words in your mouth)

I have to read that a few more times, I don't think I get the advantage. I get the seperation of stats and traits. Then, instead of having fixed minors and a set of majors to chose from, you would have traits that combine the stats of a minor and the ability tweaks of a major into one trait? What if that combination doesn't suit the style I want? Isn't that just as restrictive as the current solution? More restrictive even? 

What am I missing there?

  observer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2008

First came pride, then envy.

2/29/12 3:28:59 PM#144

And so it begins...  http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/best-healer-build-t29807.html?t=29807

I can just see people asking "LF Ele Water/Arcane spec".

  User Deleted
2/29/12 3:42:36 PM#145
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by cali59
Originally posted by Naqaj

I agree, no point in further discussion, it all boils down to the numbers at this point. We'll see how it plays out in the next beta.

I proposed an alternative which you might be interested in.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172767&postcount=1805

I think it brings traits more in line with what I think we think they should be (not to put words in your mouth)

I have to read that a few more times, I don't think I get the advantage. I get the seperation of stats and traits. Tehn, instead of having fixed minors and a set of majors to chose from, you would have traits that combine the stats of a minor and the ability tweaks of a major into one trait? What if that combination doesn't suit the style I want? Isn't that just as restrictive as the current solution? More restrictive even? 

What am I missing there?

Hmm, it seemed clear to me when I wrote it.  I'll try to explain it better.

Right now you have 70 traits which you can distribute any way you want, so if you put 30 points in one tree, you end up with 3 minor and 3 major traits in that tree, as well as +300 to attributes which synergize with that tree.

One problem that I'm seeing is that if for a particular encounter you need to change your skills, you can end up with unsynergistic traits, even though you're still able to switch the major ones.

The example I gave is if you have a warrior with 30 points in Defense who needs to use a rifle, yes he can still use a rifle at the base level.  But his traits in defense are going to be pretty unhelpful.  If instead he could swap to 30 points in Arms, he would get +300 to precision for crits and malice for conditions, and 6 traits that all benefit from crits, bleeding, or using a rifle.  It's completely optimized for this encounter.

 

What my proposal says is to get rid of attributes from traits completely and put them on gear (which is itemized for generalization anyway).

What it also says is to get rid of investing points in trees, and just let people pick two or three traits from every one of the five categories (for a total of 10 or 15 compared to the 14 we'd get currently).  Instead of distinguishing between minor and major traits, they would all be available as choices (though probably would need to be balanced).  So you pick 2-3 from Strength, 2-3 from Arms, 2-3 from Defense, etc.  You would only be able to change these in town.

What I think this does is it makes them feel like bonuses or tweaks to your playstyle without feeling like you're missing out on 6 synergistic traits from one tree that you wish you had for this one encounter.  If you take that +5% damage to axes trait, you don't feel too cheated if you need a different weapon for a while, it's only 5% as you say.  You're not going to run back to town to change them everytime so there is that sense of permanence.  The system could also free you to choose traits you might only use situationally, like for a shield you think you may end up needing on your 2nd weapon set. 

Please let me know if this isn't more clear.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5313

2/29/12 3:47:10 PM#146
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by Creslin321

Also remember guys that weapons are associated with specific skills that have specific purposes in this game.

So while it may seem like a great idea to just specialize in one weapon and nothing else...you may find yourself in a heap of trouble if you put all your points in greatsword and then discover that you really needed a ranged weapon.  And it can even get more specific than that.  Maybe you're still meleeing, fully specced in greatsword, but your group members are all dying because you can't disable or knock back your enemies like you could have with hammer.

So basically, speccing in a weapon isn't as cut and dry in GW2 as it is in other games.  In most other games, a weapon is just a stylistic choice with maybe one ability associated with it, so there really isn't a reason to not just specialize in one.  But in GW2, a weapon is your abilities.

Just because you have your points in greatsword doesn't mean you can't say "Hey, I need to knock back enemies here...hm I'll just switch to my hammer 'cos I have one". The only thing that can limit a character is if they don't have the weapon for the job in their inventory, if they do, it doesn't matter what spec they have, the weapon will work as intended every time.

 Yep, that's true!

The point of my post was that you can't really just specialize in one weapon and then ignore the rest.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  atticusbc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/07
Posts: 1033

I hated hipsters before hating hipsters was cool.

2/29/12 3:48:54 PM#147

wow. obviously we're all doomed. i don't get it with you people. i just know you guys would sh** bricks if there were no traits ("but i want to specialize! if you don't have them everyone will be the same!"), and with them it's just the same ("you're pigeonholing me!") gods. get a grip. seriously. if you need a game to compare it to try diablo 2: you get some points every level to assign to some discrete trees. there are level requirements, and point requirements for some of the skills in the trees, but you can pick and choose what direction you want to go in. sure there are "optimal builds" for this or that, but nothing is "right" or "wrong" if you want to play your own way, and the game is just as viable any way you go.

GET. A. GRIP.

this trait system will work fine. there's no pigeonholing going on. you can do whatever you want. sure there's going to be optimal builds, but, like GW1, there is going to be plenty of cool stuff for people to do with their chracters. gods.

  ComfyChair

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/10
Posts: 766

2/29/12 3:48:55 PM#148
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by Creslin321

Also remember guys that weapons are associated with specific skills that have specific purposes in this game.

So while it may seem like a great idea to just specialize in one weapon and nothing else...you may find yourself in a heap of trouble if you put all your points in greatsword and then discover that you really needed a ranged weapon.  And it can even get more specific than that.  Maybe you're still meleeing, fully specced in greatsword, but your group members are all dying because you can't disable or knock back your enemies like you could have with hammer.

So basically, speccing in a weapon isn't as cut and dry in GW2 as it is in other games.  In most other games, a weapon is just a stylistic choice with maybe one ability associated with it, so there really isn't a reason to not just specialize in one.  But in GW2, a weapon is your abilities.

Just because you have your points in greatsword doesn't mean you can't say "Hey, I need to knock back enemies here...hm I'll just switch to my hammer 'cos I have one". The only thing that can limit a character is if they don't have the weapon for the job in their inventory, if they do, it doesn't matter what spec they have, the weapon will work as intended every time.

 Yep, that's true!

The point of my post was that you can't really just specialize in one weapon and then ignore the rest.

People can and they will. They'll then complain about the game being unbalanced and too difficult because standing still pressing 1 also isn't viable.

  Banisco

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/11
Posts: 241

I like to play with trolls.

2/29/12 3:55:38 PM#149
Originally posted by observer

And so it begins...  http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/best-healer-build-t29807.html?t=29807

I can just see people asking "LF Ele Water/Arcane spec".

I dont see how are those healer builds, the first one is more like a support empowering allies (working as intended for a guardian) and the second one is more to self sustain and the stone atunement bonus doesnt make sense if he wants to go only water.

Also, there cant be a healer in GW2 because nobody can maintain alive a party of 5 on a dungeon using those skills, the point on healing is to help others, so to make healers work ALL the party must be using healing skills, so all the 5 get healings from 5 men.

  Naqaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1672

2/29/12 4:21:59 PM#150

It is clearer, but we're back to the point where I disagree with you about untraited abilities being useless. Your proposition fixes a problem that I don't think exists.

Your example is that of a Warrior who decided to, at least partially, trait for defense, and is then faced with an encounter where he can't benefit from it. You propose a solution to micromanage your traits to squeze the last bit of efficiency out of them, and I just don't believe that's neccessary. I've never been much of a fan of going to such extremes with minmaxing.

I don't think traits are intended to be something you switch all the time. They are intended to allow you to play a profession in a personal style, and once you've found that style, you'll want to stick with it. 

We want traits to be different things.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

2/29/12 4:25:27 PM#151
Originally posted by Master10K

Was about to post this... oh well.

EDIT: Okay, WTF! ArenaNet iterated on the Attributes... yet again. They never seem to be happy with a part of the game. Loving all the new options though, especially professions specific attirbutes.

 

I think you mean REiterated.  This is certainly not the first time.  Oh.....and iterated, the way you used it, looks like it means "shit" on.  lol    Which may or may not be the case.  ;)

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  User Deleted
2/29/12 6:12:10 PM#152
Originally posted by Naqaj

It is clearer, but we're back to the point where I disagree with you about untraited abilities being useless. Your proposition fixes a problem that I don't think exists.

Your example is that of a Warrior who decided to, at least partially, trait for defense, and is then faced with an encounter where he can't benefit from it. You propose a solution to micromanage your traits to squeze the last bit of efficiency out of them, and I just don't believe that's neccessary. I've never been much of a fan of going to such extremes with minmaxing.

I don't think traits are intended to be something you switch all the time. They are intended to allow you to play a profession in a personal style, and once you've found that style, you'll want to stick with it. 

We want traits to be different things.

Well I'm obviously not making myself clear.  I'm not proposing micromanaging anything.

 

What I'm saying is that in the current system, a warrior who specced for Defense can encounter a situation where they can only attack at range (that's a real boss btw).  They can't freely swap to Arms even though it seems like it would be significant benefit to doing so (6 synergistic bleed/crit/rifle traits and +300 Precision and Malice).  This means they either need to just do their best for this encounter with whatever not quite useless Defense majors they can swap to, or they need to head back to town to respec.

We want traits to NOT be something you feel like you need to micromanage, but under the current system it feels like something people should.  Like you changed your skills and now you want to change your traits to support them as well, but you can't.  The problem I'm having with this is that 6 traits and 2 stat boosts that support those traits don't feel like a bonus, they feel like I should go back and respec for this boss, especially if we wipe on him a few times.

Ok, that was the current system.

 

This is what I'm proposing, making it a little more clear I hope:

You can only swap in town because ArenaNet wants permanence.

Remove attributes from Traits and put them back solely on gear.

Forget the Minor Traits.  Ignore them for now.

Each of the 5 categories has 3 slots for Major traits.  Let everyone fill all 3 in each category with the 12 major traits for that category.  You choose 3 Strength majors, you choose 3 Arms, you choose 3 Defense, etc, for a total of 15 (compared to 14 Major+Minor we get now).

To say again.  Look at the trait window now.  Ignore the Minor traits, fill up the entire window with Majors.

To me, what this does is simply give people a wide variety of minor bonuses which they can use to enhance how they think they might play.  In the Strength tree, you might buff axes, or physical utility skills.  In Defense, maybe you buff your hammer, or a shield.  You can give a few bonuses to whatever best suits your playstyle in general, or even plan ahead for an alternate weapon spec.

Then if you have to put down your axes for one encounter, you're only giving up 5% to axes, not some huge 6 talent synergy.

Because ArenaNet wants people to be able to go for Power, Crit, or Conditions, maybe the traits would be adjusted to make that an obvious choice that people would have to make in one of the categories.

 

In an earlier explanation of this, I suggested that players could choose a minor trait like it was a major (just combine them in the selection).  I think that might have been a source of the confusion.  I had also proposed giving people 2 from every category, but I think it might be easy to visualize filling up the whole screen with majors.

 

  Zeroxin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2499

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

2/29/12 6:16:35 PM#153
Originally posted by ComfyChair
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Zeroxin
 

Just because you have your points in greatsword doesn't mean you can't say "Hey, I need to knock back enemies here...hm I'll just switch to my hammer 'cos I have one". The only thing that can limit a character is if they don't have the weapon for the job in their inventory, if they do, it doesn't matter what spec they have, the weapon will work as intended every time.

 Yep, that's true!

The point of my post was that you can't really just specialize in one weapon and then ignore the rest.

People can and they will. They'll then complain about the game being unbalanced and too difficult because standing still pressing 1 also isn't viable.

Let's pray they don't.

@Creslin

Yea, I wasn't quite sure if you were saying that or not. Good to know you were.

This is not a game.

  Stx11

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 420

2/29/12 7:40:17 PM#154
Originally posted by cali59
Well I'm obviously not making myself clear.  I'm not proposing micromanaging anything.

 

What I'm saying is that in the current system, a warrior who specced for Defense can encounter a situation where they can only attack at range (that's a real boss btw).  They can't freely swap to Arms even though it seems like it would be significant benefit to doing so (6 synergistic bleed/crit/rifle traits and +300 Precision and Malice).  This means they either need to just do their best for this encounter with whatever not quite useless Defense majors they can swap to, or they need to head back to town to respec.

We want traits to NOT be something you feel like you need to micromanage, but under the current system it feels like something people should.  Like you changed your skills and now you want to change your traits to support them as well, but you can't.  The problem I'm having with this is that 6 traits and 2 stat boosts that support those traits don't feel like a bonus, they feel like I should go back and respec for this boss, especially if we wipe on him a few times.

Ok, that was the current system...

 


Cali I kinda understand what you are saying but I also think you have made the issue much worse in your own mind on top of bringing a "must min-max EVERY fight" mentality to a game where I honestly don't think that will work.

First off, you could go "Sword & Board + Rifles" (for example) for a flexible defense-oriented build that also works at range.

Second, you are generally going to know where you are going so if you know there's a fight that's all kiting you would spec for it in town before leaving (just like in GW1).

Third, even in a fight at range a Warrior (for example) can provide other very valuable benefits with Banners/Shouts/etc.

I feel like you are totally caught up in this idea of "omg I'm Axes but this fight I NEED Bows!1!!1!" as if you can't (a) Spec 2 lines at 30 to cover 2 weapons (b) provide ANY "viable" Utility if you either swap to an "untraited" weapon or use Buffs/Boons/Heals on "melee unfriendly" fights and that's just not true.

  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 352

2/29/12 7:47:58 PM#155

Cali-

 

It's a different type of game than what you are thinking it is, simply put.

 

Part of the fun of GW is finding new and interesting combinations of skills on your action bar and how you pick your traits.  Think of it like building a deck in Magic: The Gathering card game.  There are lots of decks that work well for how they are built, but all of them have there weaknesses.

Maybe you are set on a style that will deal with every situation equally well.  Creating a build like that will also require you to make something that will accomplish that purpose.

Honestly, any game that has no trade-off with weaknesses to certain builds/talents/etc are simply creating an OP scenario. 

  Banquetto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1017

2/29/12 7:58:21 PM#156

Sid Meier, who knows a thing or two about game design, described gameplay as "a series of interesting choices".


Anyone who is complaining that this trait system doesn't allow them to be the best at everything should pause and think about that for a moment.


cali59, you seem worked up about the fact that a warrior who specs heavy into defense will be less effective in a fight where he is forced to fight at range. If you make a spec that was optimal in melee and optimal at range, where's the interesting choice?


The whole point is that you make a decision, and that decision will make your character be able to do some things extremely effectively, and some other things, you'll be less effective at. At which point you'll need to (a) suck it up and accept that you're not perfect at everything, (b) rely on your teammates to pick up the slack, and/or (c) go back to town and respec before every pull.


But looking over the trait lines, it's immediately obvious that everyone will be perfectly free to do multiple things well. Yes your hypothetical defense warrior could pick up all mace-and-shield specific major traits. But he could also - if he was concerned about being overly specialized - pick up "increased damage to weakened foes", "increased stance duration" and "regenerate health based on adrenaline level." They all sound useful all the time. And as far as I can see, none of the minor traits are weapon-specific.

  aguliondew

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/12
Posts: 95

2/29/12 7:59:32 PM#157
Originally posted by cali59 #152

So you spec for a control build but want to be the best dps for the next fight. Just because the boss can one shot you in melee does not mean he will not do significant damage from range which you will need toughness for. Your group may need a melee control for the boss after him but for that fight you will have to rely on someone esle. Everyone can make control builds but some will be more useful at times. Dungeons are a team effort so no group should have to rely on only one control.

Hum so you want to have one damage type clearly do more damage than the rest? In the arenanet blog post the said the dps system at the press beta was imbalanced so they adjusted power/precision/condition damage to be more balanced with one another. Instead of having power be the clear choice for dps. As far as which one should be best: Crit is generally the best for pvp since burst damage stop anyone for healing, Conditions are best for fights where you have a limited time to dps between dodging, and Power is best at substained dps.

I can argee with you about the minor traits. Even though they are call minor traits they are not since they cost alot of skill points to get to and you do not have a choice as to what trait you will get at the 5/15/25 mark in each tree. But we still have a few beta's left before the game comes out, so the traits we have seen are not set in stone and are subject to change. 

 I said in an earlier post everyone wants a universal build like in wow.

I am glad I was able to just link that wall of text instead of quoting it :P.

  User Deleted
2/29/12 8:27:06 PM#158

I give up.

I don't know why, but I'm not making myself clear at all.

 

I don't even know if I should try again.  What the hell, here goes.

 

Traits don't feel like character customization bonuses right now, they feel like potentially huge swings in effectiveness.

If you can totally change your skillbar, that's a choice you make to pick the skills for the encounter.  But right now it feels like you can go from synergistic traits/skill combinations to completely unsynergistic ones.

If a boss is really difficult and you're struggling, this probably means you're heading back to town to respec for the encounter to get the seemingly huge rifle boost I think is possible if a guy could shift his Defense points.

 

What I want, what my proposal is trying to achieve is that you pick a bunch of bonuses based on your playstyle.  Bonuses from a bunch of categories with no great synergy between them.  If you like axes, you can boost your axe.  If you like crit, you can boost that too.  If you think you might use a shield from time to time, you can put traits into that just in case.  A whole bunch of minor tradeoffs where you have 12 choices in each category and can pick 2-3.

I like tradeoffs.  Tradeoffs are great.

 

In my proposal, even if you buff axes and have to use a rifle for the encounter, it's only a 5% damage hit or whatever.  Maybe next time you do the dungeon you remember that boss and spec rifle.  It doesn't feel like I should be going back to the town to respec into 6 synergistic traits and hundreds of attributes, or sitting in a dungeon wiping to a boss and thinking that I should.

Please understand this.  I'm so tired of debating.

  aguliondew

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/12
Posts: 95

2/29/12 9:07:16 PM#159
Originally posted by cali59

I give up.

I don't know why, but I'm not making myself clear at all.

 

I don't even know if I should try again.  What the hell, here goes.

 

Traits don't feel like character customization bonuses right now, they feel like potentially huge swings in effectiveness.

If you can totally change your skillbar, that's a choice you make to pick the skills for the encounter.  But right now it feels like you can go from synergistic traits/skill combinations to completely unsynergistic ones.

If a boss is really difficult and you're struggling, this probably means you're heading back to town to respec for the encounter to get the seemingly huge rifle boost I think is possible if a guy could shift his Defense points.

 

What I want, what my proposal is trying to achieve is that you pick a bunch of bonuses based on your playstyle.  Bonuses from a bunch of categories with no great synergy between them.  If you like axes, you can boost your axe.  If you like crit, you can boost that too.  If you think you might use a shield from time to time, you can put traits into that just in case.  A whole bunch of minor tradeoffs where you have 12 choices in each category and can pick 2-3.

I like tradeoffs.  Tradeoffs are great.

 

In my proposal, even if you buff axes and have to use a rifle for the encounter, it's only a 5% damage hit or whatever.  Maybe next time you do the dungeon you remember that boss and spec rifle.  It doesn't feel like I should be going back to the town to respec into 6 synergistic traits and hundreds of attributes, or sitting in a dungeon wiping to a boss and thinking that I should.

Please understand this.  I'm so tired of debating.

I looked at the warriors traits that we have seen and what you are proposing is already their. Warriors do not have any traits to greatly improve range damage over melee. Every other trait tree is focused on one weapon hammer/sword /axes with axes mastery in the strength trait line is the only issue I see. Overall you are just talking about a balance issue in some trait lines with a game that is still in BETA.

  observer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2008

First came pride, then envy.

2/29/12 10:12:19 PM#160
Originally posted by cali59
Please understand this.  I'm so tired of debating.

Some of us understand.  To take it further, i wonder how this will affect maxed out  characters when they go back to lower level areas. 

10 Pages First « 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 » Search