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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » ArenaNet: "Play your way" Jon Peters on Traits and Attributes

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183 posts found
  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

 
OP  2/28/12 3:33:54 PM#1

http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes

Hey everybody, Jon Peters here with a look at how traits and attributes provide a deep level of customization to your Guild Wars 2 character. Put simply, attributes are characteristics that players can invest points into in order to increase their effectiveness. We have four basic attributes – power, vitality, precision, and toughness.

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

2/28/12 3:35:17 PM#2

Was about to post this... oh well.

EDIT: Okay, WTF! ArenaNet iterated on the Attributes... yet again. They never seem to be happy with a part of the game. Loving all the new options though, especially professions specific attirbutes.

  Callin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/12
Posts: 97

People are sheep, Hence the Lamb of God -me

2/28/12 3:39:08 PM#3

Just read that and got real happy. Seems like a really great idea. Cant wait to mess with it.

edit for Masters edit- at least it means they really really really want it to be fun, and not gonna just throw something together in the hopes that it works and we like it. shows a bit of game design pride to me.

  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

2/28/12 3:41:54 PM#4

Now were starting to see some build complexity.  Great information.

  RizelStar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2821

We all breathe and we all die.

2/28/12 3:53:29 PM#5

I didn't even expect them to attempt this...yet they did lol I swear to God man already feelin overwhelmed but in a good way.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  DeaconX

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/05
Posts: 3060

Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone.
-==X==-
SHH, my COMMON SENSE is tingling!

2/28/12 3:55:09 PM#6

Wow.  It's nice to know the character of the same class I'm standing next to might be quite different than I am not only in appearance, but in how they play ;)


Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  User Deleted
2/28/12 4:01:45 PM#7

I really really dislike this change for two reasons.

 

First:

We realized that an important part of building a character is some sense of permanence. With this new system, you are flexible enough to change if you really want to, but you should still feel like the choices you made matter while you are out adventuring or slogging your way through a dungeon. In competitive PvP, you have a separately saved trait build and can respec free of charge.

 

I don't get this, it doesn't seem like it fits at all.  Combat is supposed to be fluid with people able to build towards different roles based on the encounter.  In some other game yeah I can kind of see the idea of having a tankish build of skills and then locking in traits to support that, but what if in GW2 you need to be controlling for one encounter and support for the next?  You can totally change your skills but now you have traits that don't support this change at all.

And in a game full of instant teleportation (and one person can leave a dungeon as long as they all don't) then what is the point of making people go back to town to pay a fee and make everyone wait?

The only way this makes sense to me is if traits are so complicated compared to skills that you want to actively discourage their respecing so people don't have to wait for people to keep allocating points before every boss battle.

 

And if that wasn't bad enough, we have this.

Major Traits (For each of the three unlocked slots, the warrior may choose any of these):

  • Gain adrenaline whenever killing an enemy.
  • Reduced signet-recharge time.
  • Movement skills break out of the Immobilize condition.
  • Reduced burst-skill recharge time.
  • Gain adrenaline when inflicting a critical hit with an axe skill.
  • Increased movement speed while wielding a melee weapon.
  • Reduced burst-skill adrenaline cost.
  • Chance to rally whenever killing an enemy while under the effects of Vengeance.
  • Improved critical chance for each full level of adrenaline.

Traits that depend on specific things I think are particularly bad, but not so much when you can freely change them and your skills.  You just have to make a judgement call whether it's worth taking the trait when you have X number of Signets or certain weapons.  Now, if you switch your weapons/skills due to a different boss, you're now going to have 100% worthless major traits if you took these.

 

I really hope guildwars2guru is going ballistic over this.

 

edit: someone on GW2Guru is saying you need to go to a trainer to respec the points, but you can freely swap the major traits.  That's better but still not awesome to me.  Also I don't know if that's confirmed.

 

  DJJazzy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2069

2/28/12 4:02:00 PM#8

traits = talents pretty much

I prefer the way Guild Wars did with respecing the attribute points. Right now in GW2 it seems like a pretty standard mmo way of respecing.

  Pilnkplonk

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1559

2/28/12 4:03:37 PM#9

Not sure I like this... I liked the last system with 4 attributes much better, it was clean and elegant and did the job well..

And grouping traits... Isn't that just like having 5 skill trees? I had a feeling that choosing traits would be much more free than having 5 trees....

  Bunks

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 987

2/28/12 4:07:53 PM#10

/facepalm

 

not again!

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

2/28/12 4:12:31 PM#11
Originally posted by cali59

I really really dislike this change for two reasons.

 

First:

We realized that an important part of building a character is some sense of permanence. With this new system, you are flexible enough to change if you really want to, but you should still feel like the choices you made matter while you are out adventuring or slogging your way through a dungeon. In competitive PvP, you have a separately saved trait build and can respec free of charge.

 [...]

Traits that depend on specific things I think are particularly bad, but not so much when you can freely change them and your skills.  You just have to make a judgement call whether it's worth taking the trait when you have X number of Signets or certain weapons.  Now, if you switch your weapons/skills due to a different boss, you're now going to have 100% worthless major traits if you took these.

 

I really hope guildwars2guru is going ballistic over this.

 

edit: someone on GW2Guru is saying you need to go to a trainer to respec the points, but you can freely swap the major traits.  That's better but still not awesome to me.  Also I don't know if that's confirmed.

Yeah, I also dislike that permanent factor of it, as it would mean I am less likely to switch out my weapon set to something else, if I am specced in a certain way. I wish ArenaNet does what Rift did and allow you to buy (in this case) Build Slots. Where you can purchase the increasingly expensive slots, for your various saved builds and then switch between them out of combat. I really hope they do something like this.

 

EDIT: Just as I predicted some time ago, the GW2guru community is in uproar about the change.

  DJJazzy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2069

2/28/12 4:14:41 PM#12

So does this mean we won't have templates that we can change to and from like we had in GW? Since we have to pay to respec now it seems to prohibit any on the fly change.

  RizelStar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2821

We all breathe and we all die.

2/28/12 4:15:29 PM#13

I'm seeing mixed results on Guru.

 

Some dislike it

Some like it

Some are awaiting

Question if you can switch major traits around for free what does that mean?

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5323

2/28/12 4:15:40 PM#14

I'm cool with the attribute changes, but traits...scare me.

Let me be clear, that nothing about their specific implementation scared me, on the contrary, I loved all the trait examples they gave.  But traits are essentially an analog to talent trees, and talent trees have had a singular purpose in every MMORPG they are in.  And that purpose is to pigeonhole you into one role.

I hope that GW2's traits will not be like this, but will instead allow you to customize your character while remaining versatile.  But I can't really be sure until I can look at what they all do and see a bunch of different "builds" interacting together.  So for now, I will remain cautiously optimistic that ANet doesn't create "pigeonhole" trait builds with their system.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  17Omega

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 44

2/28/12 4:18:10 PM#15

...Seriously? why do we have to pay a fee for trainer to respec?....I was hoping to respec at will and enjoy my builds as I see fit. 

I don't like this, I understand they need to find some stuff for gold sinking but...this?!...*sigh* well let's hope they comment back on the reason behind the respecing fee. 

I like the old trait system from GC 2010 it was great easy to understand, interesting and you can respec without paying. 

  AvatarBlade

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/11/06
Posts: 767

2/28/12 4:21:14 PM#16

I know that there aren't actual tanks or healers, but with this trait system it seems like you can spec to be more tanky or more of a healer, which combined with having to go to town to reset, might start to create the same problem trinity MMOs have, with a warrior or guardian being asked to have invested in their tanky traits when going to a dungeon.

  fony

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 799

2/28/12 4:27:20 PM#17
Originally posted by DJJazzy

So does this mean we won't have templates that we can change to and from like we had in GW? Since we have to pay to respec now it seems to prohibit any on the fly change.

you can have templates for pvp, and respec is free. in pve the major traits can be changed any time...you only spend point to unlock the trait line.

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2611

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

2/28/12 4:36:38 PM#18

This is kind of lame. I would like it if we could respec for free as long as we are not in combat.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5323

2/28/12 4:42:54 PM#19
Originally posted by AvatarBlade

I know that there aren't actual tanks or healers, but with this trait system it seems like you can spec to be more tanky or more of a healer, which combined with having to go to town to reset, might start to create the same problem trinity MMOs have, with a warrior or guardian being asked to have invested in their tanky traits when going to a dungeon.

 That's my fear as well.

If traits are made to be too impactful, we may start seeing people asking for a specific Guardian build suited to healing or tanking in chat.  But once again, this is just conjecture.  I'm hoping that ANet doesn't make traits too impactful.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  EvilGeek

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 1237

My freedom relies on yours

2/28/12 4:43:43 PM#20

I like the depth of the new system but I don't like the potential for restriction, there are too many unanswered questions right now. Cost needs to be cheap and any scaling not prohibitive and respeccing needs to be more accessible than teleporting off to find an NPC. Portable items at a cheap cost would save this system from being restrictive, I hope that is the case.


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