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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Bioware acknowledges Ilum was a mistake, starts to phase out planet completely.

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176 posts found
  Monorojo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/08
Posts: 422

 
OP  2/28/12 2:11:11 PM#1

In the latest test server patch notes, Bioware made the following changes to PVP. One directly affecting Ilum. The folloowing is a prime example of a developer listening to its fanbase and admitting to its own faults. Really have to give some credit to Bioware for doing this i think.

 

Undoubtely they will introdue another planet in its place that is actually suitable for world pvp. This is superb news!

 

General

  • Players can now build credit towards the Battle for Ilum daily and weekly missions by playing Warzones.

Warzones


General
  • Healers in Warzones now receive kill credit when a healed player kills an enemy.
  • Players affected by a Damage Over Time ability are no longer interrupted when interacting with objectives.
  • Battlemaster and Champion Commendations are now available on the PvP Vendor for Warzone and Mercenary Commendations. Champion Gear Bags are still available.
  • Valor gained from Warzones has been increased.
  • Medals are now worth 500 Valor and 10 Commendations. Players only earn Valor and Commendations for the first 4 medals earned each match.
  • Increased the Warzone AFK timeout from 60 seconds to 90 seconds
  Crackbone

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/08
Posts: 213

2/28/12 2:15:17 PM#2

While it's disappointing that they couldn't come up with a solution, it's definitely better than forcing people to participate in a zone that is just flat out broken. 

You missed one as well in my mind. 

They are also basically saying, we've got a faction population problem, and we can't fix that either. 

  Zlayer77

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 846

Start worrying about other players in a game and dont just play

2/28/12 3:07:56 PM#3
Originally posted by Monorojo

In the latest test server patch notes, Bioware made the following changes to PVP. One directly affecting Ilum. The folloowing is a prime example of a developer listening to its fanbase and admitting to its own faults. Really have to give some credit to Bioware for doing this i think.

 

Undoubtely they will introdue another planet in its place that is actually suitable for world pvp. This is superb news!

 

General

  • Players can now build credit towards the Battle for Ilum daily and weekly missions by playing Warzones.

 

You have any facts suporting that they will indtroduce another planet or is this just pure specualation on your part? because the only facts im reading here is that "Biowars acknowledge Ilum was a mistake" and are letting people play Warzones instead...

That is what I take out of this information. I can see nothing that sugest they are doing annything but Turning Ilum into a ghost town and letting it die.... And putting their focus on doing Warzones instead..

  Crackbone

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/08
Posts: 213

2/28/12 3:10:51 PM#4
Originally posted by Zlayer77
Originally posted by Monorojo

In the latest test server patch notes, Bioware made the following changes to PVP. One directly affecting Ilum. The folloowing is a prime example of a developer listening to its fanbase and admitting to its own faults. Really have to give some credit to Bioware for doing this i think.

 

Undoubtely they will introdue another planet in its place that is actually suitable for world pvp. This is superb news!

 

General

  • Players can now build credit towards the Battle for Ilum daily and weekly missions by playing Warzones.

 

You have any facts suporting that they will indtroduce another planet or is this just pure specualation on your part? because the only facts im reading here is that "Biowars acknowledge Ilum was a mistake" and are letting people play Warzones instead...

That is what I take out of this information. I can see nothing that sugest they are doing annything but Turning Ilum into a ghost town and letting it die.... And putting their focus on doing Warzones instead..

There isn't any indication they are going to replace Ilum with another open PvP zone. 

IMO, between the faction imbalances and the poor engine performance, I'd say they are giving up on open world altogether. 

  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

2/28/12 3:17:19 PM#5
I've maintained for a while that Ilum might be unsalvageable and that they need to go back to the drawing board to come up with a new zone. I hope that is what they are doing.

Also, I freaking love that they are adressing rewards for healers. I have been Speccing dps in warzones because it was impossible to get the same rewards as a healer.

Capping the medals at 4 and giving us proper kill credit will help a ton.

Shadow's Hand Guild
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  Hrica

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1139

"Yesterday is history, Tomorrow a mystery, and today is a gift"

2/28/12 3:21:24 PM#6

Title SOOO misleading

 

  Mad+Dog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 668

2/28/12 3:27:01 PM#7

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

  Zlayer77

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 846

Start worrying about other players in a game and dont just play

2/28/12 3:28:31 PM#8
Originally posted by dubyahite
I've maintained for a while that Ilum might be unsalvageable and that they need to go back to the drawing board to come up with a new zone. I hope that is what they are doing.

Also, I freaking love that they are adressing rewards for healers. I have been Speccing dps in warzones because it was impossible to get the same rewards as a healer.

Capping the medals at 4 and giving us proper kill credit will help a ton.

Good for you :). But I would not lable the closing of Ilum as Superb news as the OP says.. It is actually a big step towards all the other competitiors in the industry. Not many of them have open world PvP. And now Swtor will join thier ranks even more. I really think that its going to be very hard for them to turn this boat around...

Its good that they are fixing bugs and trying to fix things. But when the core mechancis of the game is not Interesting, or Original what is going to make people play this game?? Where will they find new customers? Who is going to be playing this game a year from now?

Yes you and many others will play it but, how many people are like you? 200k-500k or more? Game will not die but I dont see that this game will have the subscribers that Bioware was hoping for, it I'm being honest here, there just isent enough there to warrent people to play this game over anny other run of the mill Themepark MMO. And with GW2 and TERA and older games going free to play.. Its going to be an uphill battle keeping players subscriptions.

  LoboMau

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 404

2/28/12 3:30:52 PM#9
Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

Absolutely! Bye bye SW TOR! Hello GW2 and Secret World!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/28/12 3:31:34 PM#10

oh dear, im betting the replacement is called Lake Hoth or something and works on a timer

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

2/28/12 3:32:18 PM#11
So open world PvP is now a daily or weekly event where you have to earn an invite by rinse repeating their 3 instanced battlegrounds.

Lolcats
  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

2/28/12 3:33:36 PM#12
Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

Ugh.  Everytime someone brings up GW2 in a SWTOR thread, it only brings waves of angry SWTOR fans to the GW2 forum for payback.  Please stop.

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

2/28/12 3:34:00 PM#13
Originally posted by Zlayer77
Originally posted by Monorojo

In the latest test server patch notes, Bioware made the following changes to PVP. One directly affecting Ilum. The folloowing is a prime example of a developer listening to its fanbase and admitting to its own faults. Really have to give some credit to Bioware for doing this i think.

 

Undoubtely they will introdue another planet in its place that is actually suitable for world pvp. This is superb news!

 

General

  • Players can now build credit towards the Battle for Ilum daily and weekly missions by playing Warzones.

 

You have any facts suporting that they will indtroduce another planet or is this just pure specualation on your part? because the only facts im reading here is that "Biowars acknowledge Ilum was a mistake" and are letting people play Warzones instead...

That is what I take out of this information. I can see nothing that sugest they are doing annything but Turning Ilum into a ghost town and letting it die.... And putting their focus on doing Warzones instead..

Yup, sensible objections.

 

  Zlayer77

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 846

Start worrying about other players in a game and dont just play

2/28/12 3:35:20 PM#14
Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

Yes probably.. and all the people who love hardcore raiding dont sound to happy with the product either. So who is actually going to play SWTOR? what playerbase are they going for?

Single players who pick up the game play a month to max level and then Quit? Is this the audiance they were going for? I really cant get my head around who is the target audiance for this game? Star Wars fans? Im a big Star Wars fan but, Star Wars for me is Space, and there isent much space content in the game... I get more space content playing STO or EvE online..

Hard one to call but I personaly Feel that there is no big audiance for a game like this... It just dosent have annything special or Uniqe, and voice overs isent really Uniqe you get that in any single player RPG game these days....

  Crackbone

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/08
Posts: 213

2/28/12 3:39:06 PM#15
Originally posted by Zlayer77
Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

Yes probably.. and all the people who love hardcore raiding dont sound to happy with the product either. So who is actually going to play SWTOR? what playerbase are they going for?

Single players who pick up the game play a month to max level and then Quit? Is this the audiance they were going for? I really cant get my head around who is the target audiance for this game? Star Wars fans? Im a big Star Wars fan but, Star Wars for me is Space, and there isent much space content in the game... I get more space content playing STO or EvE online..

Hard one to call but I personaly Feel that there is no big audiance for a game like this... It just dosent have annything special or Uniqe, and voice overs isent really Uniqe you get that in any single player RPG game these days....

Thing is, I don't think Bioware really knows either.  

I've heard the accusation that SWTOR is a "WoW clone" levied at it many times, but the truth is, if it could match WoW and be in the TOR universe, they might actually have a fighting chance. 

They have a long way to go to earn "WoW Clone" as most of the features and functionality in WoW aren't in the game, and what's there at the end is half baked. 

While I applaud Bioware for essentially admitting the game and/or engine can't handle mass PvP, it's also a big step away from what this game could've ultimately been for PvP fans. 

  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

2/28/12 3:39:45 PM#16
Originally posted by Zlayer77
Originally posted by dubyahite
I've maintained for a while that Ilum might be unsalvageable and that they need to go back to the drawing board to come up with a new zone. I hope that is what they are doing.

Also, I freaking love that they are adressing rewards for healers. I have been Speccing dps in warzones because it was impossible to get the same rewards as a healer.

Capping the medals at 4 and giving us proper kill credit will help a ton.

Good for you :). But I would not lable the closing of Ilum as Superb news as the OP says.. It is actually a big step towards all the other competitiors in the industry. Not many of them have open world PvP. And now Swtor will join thier ranks even more. I really think that its going to be very hard for them to turn this boat around...

Its good that they are fixing bugs and trying to fix things. But when the core mechancis of the game is not Interesting, or Original what is going to make people play this game?? Where will they find new customers? Who is going to be playing this game a year from now?

Yes you and many others will play it but, how many people are like you? 200k-500k or more? Game will not die but I dont see that this game will have the subscribers that Bioware was hoping for, it I'm being honest here, there just isent enough there to warrent people to play this game over anny other run of the mill Themepark MMO. And with GW2 and TERA and older games going free to play.. Its going to be an uphill battle keeping players subscriptions.

To be clear, they aren't closing Ilum, although it's about to become a ghost town I'm sure.  

 

However, I don't think this is as permanent a step as the OP seems to think it is. They are completely revamping how PvP rewards are obtained in 1.2. Ilum might be a part of that.  

 

This could also be a step to wait and see if the population imbalance sorts itself out in the long term. Give people a way to get their dailies done in the meantime and see what happems.  

 

What I mean by scrapping Ilum and starting over with a new zone is that there are actually many problems with Ilum itself as a zone.  It's too big for the amount of people that playe there, the bases are completely pointless, etc.  They can take what they ahve hopefully learned with Ilum and come up with something better. I just don't think they can make Ilum into that something better. 

 

I actually think the recent GW 2 news might have something to do with this.  How could they hold up Ilum next to WvWvW and actually try to compete in that area? Honestly, Ilum is a small fraction of what Arenanet is doing with world pvp.

 

I don't think they should give up on world PvP, to be clear. I think they need to work a lot harder on it actually. 

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  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

2/28/12 3:41:39 PM#17
Originally posted by RefMinor
So open world PvP is now a daily or weekly event where you have to earn an invite by rinse repeating their 3 instanced battlegrounds.

 

Lolcats

Incorrect.

 

The daily/weekly quests for Ilum were "kill other player" quests that had to be completed on Ilum. It was problematic on some servers because of population imbalance to complete them.  

 

This patch will allow players to count their warzone kills towards the Ilum quests, effectively killing off Ilum pvp. 

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  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3390

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

2/28/12 3:43:23 PM#18
Originally posted by Monorojo

Undoubtely they will introdue another planet in its place that is actually suitable for world pvp. This is superb news!

As someone who has been a staunch defender of this game, even I think this is a bit of spin sir....

"Fantastic" news?

They admit that they failed and they rather than trying to change it in any way to make it playable, or even announcing some planning stages of doing such, they instead admit defeat and give up on it?

that sir, is called failing.

  evicton

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/11
Posts: 399

2/28/12 3:43:26 PM#19

Honestly with the Hero Engine I don't think open-world pvp is really possible in this game. On my server, Shadowlands ilum is I suppose I would say the pvp side of the planet is fairly active. In this, are at certain times, throughout the day the republic musters enough people to attack. Sometimes they can even hold center for a while. I can honestly say though if I was republic i'd have given up on those quests long ago, which creates a further gear disparity between the republic and empire, as even if the republic never goes to ilum we can still from crates. 

 

Even in the few large battles that do happen though its a nightmare of a lagfest. There is a reason wz are all 8v8 and it is directly tied to the engine this game uses. 

  Crackbone

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/08
Posts: 213

2/28/12 3:44:12 PM#20
Originally posted by dubyahite
Originally posted by Zlayer77
Originally posted by dubyahite
I've maintained for a while that Ilum might be unsalvageable and that they need to go back to the drawing board to come up with a new zone. I hope that is what they are doing.

Also, I freaking love that they are adressing rewards for healers. I have been Speccing dps in warzones because it was impossible to get the same rewards as a healer.

Capping the medals at 4 and giving us proper kill credit will help a ton.

Good for you :). But I would not lable the closing of Ilum as Superb news as the OP says.. It is actually a big step towards all the other competitiors in the industry. Not many of them have open world PvP. And now Swtor will join thier ranks even more. I really think that its going to be very hard for them to turn this boat around...

Its good that they are fixing bugs and trying to fix things. But when the core mechancis of the game is not Interesting, or Original what is going to make people play this game?? Where will they find new customers? Who is going to be playing this game a year from now?

Yes you and many others will play it but, how many people are like you? 200k-500k or more? Game will not die but I dont see that this game will have the subscribers that Bioware was hoping for, it I'm being honest here, there just isent enough there to warrent people to play this game over anny other run of the mill Themepark MMO. And with GW2 and TERA and older games going free to play.. Its going to be an uphill battle keeping players subscriptions.

To be clear, they aren't closing Ilum, although it's about to become a ghost town I'm sure.  

 

However, I don't think this is as permanent a step as the OP seems to think it is. They are completely revamping how PvP rewards are obtained in 1.2. Ilum might be a part of that.  

 

This could also be a step to wait and see if the population imbalance sorts itself out in the long term. Give people a way to get their dailies done in the meantime and see what happems.  

 

What I mean by scrapping Ilum and starting over with a new zone is that there are actually many problems with Ilum itself as a zone.  It's too big for the amount of people that playe there, the bases are completely pointless, etc.  They can take what they ahve hopefully learned with Ilum and come up with something better. I just don't think they can make Ilum into that something better. 

 

I actually think the recent GW 2 news might have something to do with this.  How could they hold up Ilum next to WvWvW and actually try to compete in that area? Honestly, Ilum is a small fraction of what Arenanet is doing with world pvp.

 

I don't think they should give up on world PvP, to be clear. I think they need to work a lot harder on it actually. 

I'm in total agreement. 

I'm afraid however they are up against a clock, and their window for maintaining their PvP player base is rapidly closing.  

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