Originally posted by DarthRaiden

This two changes means less sandbox and  pulls Darkfall into themepark WoW paradigm, which for me personally doesn't even represent MMORPG's.  

When you make this statement you've pretty much blown any credibility that you may have had on the topic. This is what I read: "If a MMORPG has any feature that remotely resembles a feature in WoW then it's 100% intentionally a rip off of WoW and the game is a WoW-clone and therefore isn't a real MMORPG."

If you, or anyone else, cannot come up with a reason that doesn't involve WoW then I pretty much assume you're an idiot that is going to whine and cry over any change that you do not personally like. Additionally, you lack any original thought whatsoever which is why you rely on the WoW argument for everything. Given these two assumptions, why does your opinion matter to me? Why should I take you seriously and try to get AV to reconsider these decisions?

You people that run around crying about every little thing being a WoW-clone or a rip off of WoW are like the boy who cries wolf. For a while people people payed attention and tried to find out what was going on, but it's so (wrongly) overused that most people just ignore you now. I bet a million dollars that developers are sick and tired of hearing people whine about WoW this and WoW that and at this point probably just ignore most of the comments that even mention WoW.

The reason for these changes and the fact that they are making DF 2.0 in the first place is because there was no risk to being in a naked zerg yet everyone else had to take the risk. Since the game itself was broken and not what they intended they are remaking the game to fix the mistakes with allowing naked zergs to run around all powerful.

That is all it is! They are fixing what was broken in DF 1.0 and making 2.0. So the OP doesn't have to play it if he doesn't want to play it. No one cares.

Originally posted by RefMinor
Global market is ok, so long as you have to pick up yourself or it be delivered by player driven mechanism at the most. Keep some regional flavours to games.

That depends on if the game wants trade and industry to be professions themselves.  Seeing global prices at a glance makes good deals too obvious and eliminates to possibility of local market manipulation.

I don't get it. By making it more convenient to buy stuff on the market and quicker way to get back into battle, when dying, that will destroy Darkfall?

Seems to me that they are simply making the game more accessable. Never understood the huge timesinks that games like DF and Eve has. What exactly does it add to the game experience?

And dont tell me that it makes death meaningless because you will still lose all your stuff.

Besides, neither of these two aspects has anything to do with sandbox. Pointless timesinks are not an inherent feature of sandbox MMOs.

I don't see any issue with the global market addition.  Assuming there is a fee for buying outside of the market and a delay in time that it takes to reach you, what's the big deal?  Some act as if this will remove any open PvP from the game.  There will still be people out PvE'ing.  They aren't removing the spawns from the game are they?  There will still be territory control.  It sounds more like a gankers mindset.  The ganker is just upset that the new player is offered a little bit of safety.  That's how I see it.

I personally don't like respawning on your corpse, or near it, with the ability to re-equip yourself.  If it were to take five minutes to respawn, then I don't see it being a huge deal.  Then I think of what made DAoC so great in their frontiers, speaking of the portal keeps.  They were on timers, and blocking reinforcements was a great strategy.  Allowing large forces to respawn and regroup within minutes makes things significantly less strategic and realistic when it comes to territory warfare.

I feel that having a mobile cart/hulk/whatever bind point with a cache of gear or a global bank on it would be far more beneficial to both defending and assulting forces.  Defenders will want to find it and destroy it, while the assaulting force will want to keep it safe and secret.  It's a mini-game for scout type characters, and adds another dimension to the fight.  Maybe the DF designers can't figure out how to implement a feature.  Hasn't been the first time.

I dunno, I can see how these changes are different, but not really how they are either really good or really bad. 

But I don't play the current title as it is designed so perhaps it means more to those who do.

What you guys doesnt seem to get about the limbo thing is the fact that the veterans are the ones who will abuse the system.

Hahaha! i'm really laughing at you guys, its like you really think that you(newbs) are the ones thats gonna use it the most lol. Vets are the richest in game, so they will use it all the time. As a result, a newb team will never win cuz while it will remain hardcore for a new player, it will be just like battlefield for the veteran clans aka elitist.

I complain cuz i know for a fact that it will be an other unfair advantage for the vets. I'm one of the few thats gonna buy DF at release so i will obviously be one of the veterans, so its not about me.

Originally posted by 77lolmac77

And the AH change Im not really sure how you can be that vehemently opposed to it. WoW used to have seperate AH for each city and the isolated cities (Darnassus) never had anything good in them. If all AH arent linked you wind up with a de facto "trade" city with the rest as ghost towns

Why is that bad ? Players manage themselve which city will be tradehubs and which not .  MMORPG's have been created to give players more freedom and cause impact on the world.

I think i described enough player driven events that can be attached to player driven trades in my previous posts. Allowing setting up clan vendors in cities  wasn't  good enough for AV ? that is what  they  PROMISED in previous info, and now they announce global AH, something the playerbase noumerous times rejected  in suggestion, posts, polls.

These aren't changes that make sense in the original vision of a fully populated darkfall. They do make sense in a sparsely populated game. So yeah it has the potential to alienate people who just want a more populated Darkfall to play.

I don't play the game so my facts may be wrong.

From what I understand DF is a full loot system?

If that's the case, and many people roam around with minimum armors/weapons to avoid heavy losses, what happens when you're in limbo state, get all your best gear out of the bank, spawn near your tombstone and then wipe the floor with the dude who just killed you.

I can see problems if that's how it's implemented.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

As a veteran gamer  i am very worried about what AV is developing there. The more the reveal, the more shit it sounds. You all know i was a very avid supporter but i cant support the insta travel back after death = limbo and the global Auction House. Its the wrong direction i wanted to see this game heading to.

I m afraid DF flushes down the toilet.

"Once ganked, a character enters a limbo state where he is able to re-equip his character with items from his bank box, and reenter the battle at a random spot relatively close to his tomb stone." update 10 feb

 

"Browsing any marketplace will reveal all buy and sell orders currently available all over Agon. If  an item is located at the market you are at, you can buy it right there and then. If the item is located in another marketplace you have two options: You can either travel to the market and buy it there, or you can pay a courier cost related to the item’s price, and have it delivered to your location" update Feb 23

 

This will kill Darkfall for me. I ll supported it for become more rich gaming experience and not for it to become WoW. 

 

 

 

Will kill Darkfall for you?  What about AV that actually needs to make money.  Yes MAKE MONEY or there will be no Darkfall for anyone.

Have you been on the Darkfall servers lately?  No way are they making much of a profit.  Look , the whole purpose to 2.0 is that it will be more casual friendly, and thus appeal to the masses.  Maybe your hardcore into the full sandbox experience..unfortunatly what's been shown by both Darkfall and MO is that you are in a very, very small minority and the profit just isn't there.

I enjoyed DF when it first came out and as I am not enjoying any other game I am thinking about resubbing to DF.  And I do look forward to trying DF 2.0... worst case it is a big let down like all other games.

Originally posted by crysent

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

As a veteran gamer  i am very worried about what AV is developing there. The more the reveal, the more shit it sounds. You all know i was a very avid supporter but i cant support the insta travel back after death = limbo and the global Auction House. Its the wrong direction i wanted to see this game heading to.

I m afraid DF flushes down the toilet.

"Once ganked, a character enters a limbo state where he is able to re-equip his character with items from his bank box, and reenter the battle at a random spot relatively close to his tomb stone." update 10 feb

 

"Browsing any marketplace will reveal all buy and sell orders currently available all over Agon. If  an item is located at the market you are at, you can buy it right there and then. If the item is located in another marketplace you have two options: You can either travel to the market and buy it there, or you can pay a courier cost related to the item’s price, and have it delivered to your location" update Feb 23

 

This will kill Darkfall for me. I ll supported it for become more rich gaming experience and not for it to become WoW. 

 

 

 

Will kill Darkfall for you?  What about AV that actually needs to make money.  Yes MAKE MONEY or there will be no Darkfall for anyone.

 

Have you been on the Darkfall servers lately?  No way are they making much of a profit.  Look , the whole purpose to 2.0 is that it will be more casual friendly, and thus appeal to the masses.  Maybe your hardcore into the full sandbox experience..unfortunatly what's been shown by both Darkfall and MO is that you are in a very, very small minority and the profit just isn't there.

For the market thinG, i like the idea and no one's complaining about it in the forum.

As for the limbo, this thing will make it worst for the casual gamers. Thats what you don't seem to understand. It wont be free, it will be expensive. The more stuff you take out from the bank, the more expensive it will be. The vets with 1million gold or gold buyers are the only one that will take full use of that system. You casual gamers will probably come back 1 time after death. At the end, it will become a battlefield 3 for the vets and a hardcore game for the new and average players. Who will stay? The vets once again, just like what we have left in 1.0.

In conclusion, the limbo system is not good for the game at all and it wont appeal to the casual gamers since those players are known to be the poorest players of any mmo's.

To make it clear again because of my support for Darkfall in the past.

For everyone who like open world and non-linear progression aka sandbox titles i DON'T RECOMMEND Darkfall anymore. 

In its DF 2.0 incarnation it wil degrade to a shallow and blunt big FPS Arena. (for once and for good this time)

@rbd  Posts contains criticism about changes getting deleted  + The playetrbase who cared about DF become a rich sandbox have give up before and are within those 98000 who bought a copy and stoped playing. 

Even so there are a lot of posts, you just have to read forums without being selective..example:

from

small complaints:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=312053

to suggestions :

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=311915

masked as positive lists :

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=311887

and... because you don't seem to have noticed, some posters on Official forums even bear follow sig. (thx to KAPUTTMACHAA, the genious who delivers pictures saying more the 1000 words)

@crysent i would care more about the company if they cared more about my playstyle. The game i like to play isn't simple i admit but i am very loyal to companys who at least try, SWG (SWG PRE CU) , Darkfall  prior this bullshitification (till around after 2nd expansion),  Ryzom, EvE etc.. #

If they start  to shit at me ..NGE ...Darkfall 2.0 i become very unhappy...very unhappy...

Other titkles i have oversee yet, will become my focus ..

EvE, Ryzom, Mortal Online i heard expands the sandbox and might become a really good game, Xsyon might add  good combat one day, waiting for ArchAge and other sandbox titles who have been developed behind scenes atm.

They more intresting and make more hope to look forward to them then to Darkfall 2.0.

AV's "vision" of gameplay is dismissed for everyone who puts gameplay at  first place taken from what they reveal about their future plans on DF 2.0.

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Originally posted by Yamota
I don't get it. By making it more convenient to buy stuff on the market and quicker way to get back into battle, when dying, that will destroy Darkfall?
Seems to me that they are simply making the game more accessable. Never understood the huge timesinks that games like DF and Eve has. What exactly does it add to the game experience?

---

Heh if you can't understand how instant travel back to where you died in a ready fitted spaceship would affect PvP in EVE then you have very limited experience with mass PvP in EVE.

Logistics is a huge part of the game, economicly and strategicaly.

It's easy and shortsighted to simply label it as a useless timesink.

When you make it more convenient to get back into the fight you make removing someone from the fight less important. People care less about dying. They still lose their stuff but what about those that have strong guilds or can afford the loss? With an option to instantly come back in fighting condition they lose nothing and more importantly the opponent gains nothing strategically.

Global markets affect the game economy in so many ways that i can't be bothered to write down.

In addition another thing that gets hurt in both these cases, that is very important to me personally, is immersion. Regional markets and logistics (strategic and economic) create life in the Sandbox world, it's PvP and it's economy.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

To make it clear again because of my support for Darkfall in the past.

For everyone who like open world and non-linear progression aka sandbox titles i DON'T RECOMMEND Darkfall anymore.

I think they should add this guy to the list of features in 2.0.

• Now with less people like DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Simsu

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

To make it clear again because of my support for Darkfall in the past.

For everyone who like open world and non-linear progression aka sandbox titles i DON'T RECOMMEND Darkfall anymore.

I think they should add this guy to the list of features in 2.0.

 

• Now with less people like DarthRaiden

I'll avoid describing my opinion of him any further, but you guys get the idea *chuckle*

I know.... i should know you after you become that personal ..but i have no fucking clue who you are or any of your opinions even if you have  an account dated from 2003  *chuckle*

Try to say something notheworthy please some contribution to the current discussion maybe ?

Originally posted by potapithikos

 

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Originally posted by Yamota
I don't get it. By making it more convenient to buy stuff on the market and quicker way to get back into battle, when dying, that will destroy Darkfall?
Seems to me that they are simply making the game more accessable. Never understood the huge timesinks that games like DF and Eve has. What exactly does it add to the game experience?

---

 

Heh if you can't understand how instant travel back to where you died in a ready fitted spaceship would affect PvP in EVE then you have very limited experience with mass PvP in EVE.

Logistics is a huge part of the game, economicly and strategicaly.

It's easy and shortsighted to simply label it as a useless timesink.

When you make it more convenient to get back into the fight you make removing someone from the fight less important. People care less about dying. They still lose their stuff but what about those that have strong guilds or can afford the loss? With an option to instantly come back in fighting condition they lose nothing and more importantly the opponent gains nothing strategically.

Global markets affect the game economy in so many ways that i can't be bothered to write down.

In addition another thing that gets hurt in both these cases, that is very important to me personally, is immersion. Regional markets and logistics (strategic and economic) create life in the Sandbox world, it's PvP and it's economy.

Agreed 110%.  Sadly there is more money in catering to the short sighted instant gratification crowd.  The funny part is that they get their way and then wonder why the game economy doesn't work.